Adam Scott on why driving is no longer a skill in pro golf

[Terry Gold]

deleted.

 

 

 

[aliikane]

Any course for the pros will be a cakewalk whenever they are hitting driver-wedge (lob, gap, pw) into long par 4s and hitting driver-short iron into par 5s. One of the ways they can make courses more relevant is to scale back on the ball but I highly doubt that will ever happen. Another way is to just put tons of hazards off the tee, but that is major course re-construction.

[bscinstnct]

> @aliikane said:

> Any course for the pros will be a cakewalk whenever they are hitting driver-wedge (lob, gap, pw) into long par 4s and hitting driver-short iron into par 5s. One of the ways they can make courses more relevant is to scale back on the ball but I highly doubt that will ever happen. Another way is to just put tons of hazards off the tee, but that is major course re-construction.

 

 

Could just put some old Dodges on blocks right off the fairway where the big hitters miss.

 

 

[LICC]

> @AWorkInProgress said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @Need4spd said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @ksgolfcoach said:

> > > > > This argument makes no sense. First I wouldn’t call Sergio or JR old. Second, how does Tiger or Phil winning prove fields aren’t as deep?? Does Nicklaus winning in 86 prove that fields were deeper before him? How about Sneed winning at 52 years old?

> > > > >

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @AWorkInProgress said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @AWorkInProgress said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @AWorkInProgress said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @QMany said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @HoosierMizuno said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @HoosierMizuno said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @QMany said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @QMany said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Payne Stewart won one time between 1991 and 1999 (when he was ranked as high as 7th)...

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you think Alex Noren is a better golfer than Payne Stewart?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're cherry-picking data. For example, earlier this year, Rory McIlroy was 8th; do you think he was a worse golfer than Payne Stewart who was ranked 7th in 1999...

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They were both excellent. Not sure what you are getting at with your question.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i think the point being payne had the better career, and was a better player in his prime. but if you take payne during the time he was ranked 47th and put him up against a 50th ranked Noren, i think Noren is better.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why? Stewart had 7 top-10 finishes in 1997, top 30 in the US Open and the PGA. So far this year Noren has had one top-10 finish, missed the cut in the Masters and wasn't in the top-50 in the US Open or the PGA.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > then i'm assuming his owgr will decline since its based on performances over past year. either way i thing you get the point whether you agree or disagree. i for one don't even think its a debate. todays pga field is much deeper than old.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is really not. You have nothing substantial on which to base that conclusion. Especially regarding the top-60 players or so, which is really all that counts when it comes to winning tournaments.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Just common sense.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Or misinformed thinking.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Would you say Tiger has “misinformed thinking” also?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > "It gets harder every year because the field gets deeper, guys coming out here are bigger, stronger, faster and more athletic" - Tiger

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > It's him being magnanimous. A 43-year old, back fused Tiger at 60% of his peak talent won the Tour Championship and the Masters against these modern-day fields. So much for deeper and better.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > What about David Duval?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > “Today’s game is better athletes, better equipment and bigger, stronger, faster and better taught, it’s just a different game than a generation ago. And I think it’s wonderful.” - David Duval

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > A 43-year old, back fused Tiger at 60% of his peak talent won the Tour Championship and the Masters against these modern-day fields. So much for deeper and better.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You haven’t addressed if David Duval has “misinformed thinking” for this insight about the game? or is he also being “magnanimous”?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It’s not worth addressing. Some offhand comment with no context is barely relevant. An aged Tiger beats these fields. An older Mickelson beat these fields. An older Sergio won the Masters against these fields. An older Justin Rose is beating these fields. All more relevant than some Duval comment.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > These players played in the 1990s. They are now in their late 30s-40s. A Tour golfer's prime peaks before age 35. If the talent level was so much better now compared to years ago, these players who are now past their prime would not be competitive.

> > >

> > > Not competitive at all, huh? Come on, man. You must be kidding or incredibly simple minded, because that’s precisely what this argument is, much too simplistic. You’re acting like this is a binary type of thing, which it’s not, far from it in fact.

> > >

> >

> > That is the response of someone who realizes his view has holes in it and doesn't know what else to say.

> >

> > Look at a sport that really has seen a big increase in the level of talent and athlete participating over the years- MMA. The early stars wound up getting pummeled once the better, more talented athletes started fighting. Golf has been a mature sport for decades and what is simplistic is thinking that fields are greatly more talented from 20-30 years ago with no good reason to support that claim.

>

> Seems like Tiger Woods fundamentally disagrees with you again, as does Ernie Els & Sergio Garcia. Or do they all have “misinformed thinking”?

>

> “When I came out on tour nobody worked-out or trained apart from me & Vijah Singh, now everyone has their trainer here this week. Guys are losing weight, getting fitter, getting faster, doing explosive exercises, things that were unheard of in our sport, but now golf has become a sport." - Tiger Woods

>

> “This generation will blow past my generation and the following generation because of their unique skill-set they have developed from a young age” - Ernie Els

>

> “Nowadays the level of play globally from guys coming up and everything is so much higher than it use to be and that is great for golf.” - Sergio Garcia

 

Yawn yawn. All meaningless blather. No facts or logic

[Murphy76]

> @Soloman1 said:

> I was thinking that every par 4 and 5 on tour courses could have a temporary 40 yard wide moat dug 300 yards out from the tee boxes. You could fill it with shallow water and some alligators and snakes and things...

> Players could crawl in it and hit it if they wanted, or take an unplayable drop.

 

Why does this remind me of the Atari game Pitfall? Throw in some tar-pits too?

[bladehunter]

These attacks of opposite opinion need to stop. I’m guilty sometimes too. But am conscious of it and am being proactive. The newbies of the crew might want to tone down the pitchfork banter.

[LICC]

> @AWorkInProgress said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > These attacks of opposite opinion need to stop. I’m guilty sometimes too. But am conscious of it and am being proactive. The newbies of the crew might want to tone down the pitchfork banter.

>

> You have it the wrong way round. LICC first accused QMany of “misinformed thinking” for his difference of opinion that should be noted is supported by many other more credible & knowledgable golfing brains.

>

> So I presented a more credible counter argument to LICC’s “misinformed thinking” comment directly from Tiger, Duval, Els, Garcia - to which LICC still hasn’t/can’t address them as they fundamentally undercut his whole premise of “misinformed thinking”. I’m simply using his own comments and logic in reverse.

>

> And challenging someone’s “opinion” is what these forums are for whether you’re a “newbie” or a long-time poster. knowledge or validity of thinking on a matter isn’t determined by the length of time ‘said’ person has been on a forum.

 

Wrong. I never say anything negative about anyone who doesn’t say anything negative about me. I was called simpleminded by him. Don’t fault me for pointing out your weaknesses in your argument.

[Shakespeare]

It use to be if you couldnt hit it far, then you could be a better chipper and putter and still compete on tour. Now you have to hit it far and be a good chipper and putter to be the best on tour. I knew it was over when kids with bad golf swings could hit it 300 on the range next to me 20 years ago. Equipment and ball going straight changed the game and allowed bigger players to take up the sport in larger numbers. It was not hard to make the tour if you were straight and long in the beginning. It was hard to be the best if you didnt have the rest of the game, but when they started to beat the shorter hitters that could chip and putt better then you knew it was over. If you are not at least longer then average in driving, your days on tour are numbered except for the few really talanted exceptions.

[bladehunter]

> @AWorkInProgress said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > These attacks of opposite opinion need to stop. I’m guilty sometimes too. But am conscious of it and am being proactive. The newbies of the crew might want to tone down the pitchfork banter.

>

> You have it the wrong way round. LICC first accused QMany of “misinformed thinking” for his difference of opinion that should be noted is supported by many other more credible & knowledgable golfing brains.

>

> So I presented a more credible counter argument to LICC’s “misinformed thinking” comment directly from Tiger, Duval, Els, Garcia - to which LICC still hasn’t/can’t address them as they fundamentally undercut his whole premise of “misinformed thinking”. I’m simply using his own comments and logic in reverse.

>

> And challenging someone’s “opinion” is what these forums are for whether you’re a “newbie” or a long-time poster. knowledge or validity of thinking on a matter isn’t determined by the length of time ‘said’ person has been on a forum.

 

I read that post. And it didn’t contain the venom that yours did. And you’re aware of that , you had no issue knowing who I was taking to above even though I didn’t mention you or quote anything.

 

True , tenure isn’t a prerequisite anywhere for attacking an opinion. But.... 2 posts in is a bit extreme. I’m just saying. You are arguing an opinion , a clear opinion , and yet called me out directly for using the word “ fact” in a clearly hyperbolic manner. I was wrong to do so in that instance. But good grief you can’t now prance around claiming there’s some settled science on this topic. Cause there isn’t.

 

 

[LICC]

> @AWorkInProgress said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @AWorkInProgress said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > These attacks of opposite opinion need to stop. I’m guilty sometimes too. But am conscious of it and am being proactive. The newbies of the crew might want to tone down the pitchfork banter.

> > >

> > > You have it the wrong way round. LICC first accused QMany of “misinformed thinking” for his difference of opinion that should be noted is supported by many other more credible & knowledgable golfing brains.

> > >

> > > So I presented a more credible counter argument to LICC’s “misinformed thinking” comment directly from Tiger, Duval, Els, Garcia - to which LICC still hasn’t/can’t address them as they fundamentally undercut his whole premise of “misinformed thinking”. I’m simply using his own comments and logic in reverse.

> > >

> > > And challenging someone’s “opinion” is what these forums are for whether you’re a “newbie” or a long-time poster. knowledge or validity of thinking on a matter isn’t determined by the length of time ‘said’ person has been on a forum.

> >

> > Wrong. I never say anything negative about anyone who doesn’t say anything negative about me. I was called simpleminded by him. Don’t fault me for pointing out your weaknesses in your argument.

>

> Based on your response, it is you that is evidently “misinformed” of my argument & push back to your “misinformed thinking” comments to QMany. My original and subsequent posts to you have been simply asking you to clarify if you think Tiger, Duval, Els & Garcia (who all share poster QMany’s opinion about todays deeper fields / better athletes / skillsets) also have “misinformed thinking” due to this shared belief they all hold? And I ask you this same question again?

>

> But the rock & hard place you find yourself caught in (and why you still haven’t/can’t address this core question) is that you cannot credibly accuse Tiger, Duval, Els & Garcia of all having “misinformed thinking” for their shared (and opposing) beliefs to you on this subject. As I said, I know deep down you’d agree with me that Tiger, Duval, Els & Garcia all offer far more credible insight & knowledge on this subject than you & I.

>

> And your continued avoidance to this core question speaks volumes.

 

Because your point with their quotes is silly. Nicklaus and Player say the top players of their era were better than the top players today. Do they not know about golf? More players than years ago exercise and do fitness training. Ok, so what? That doesn’t mean they are more talented golfers. Chamblee and others in golf have said that working out they way some players do today has negatively affected their swings. Tiger, Rory, Jason Day, and others have had injuries and altered swings or just reduced performance potentially resulting from the workouts they’ve done.

 

You seem in over your head when it comes to debating. You stick to one point, even if misinformed or silly, and get immature in your responses to people who don’t agree. Try to keep things in perspective please.

[Big Ben]

> @bladehunter said:

> These attacks of opposite opinion need to stop. I’m guilty sometimes too. But am conscious of it and am being proactive. The newbies of the crew might want to tone down the pitchfork banter.

 

This really needs to be addressed, it’s the worst I can ever remember it. Differences of opinion are fine and can be healthy for debate when cooler heads prevail. Some of these topics are discussed at the highest levels of golf I assume that’s not us! BB

[gvogel]

> @LICC said:

> > @AWorkInProgress said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @AWorkInProgress said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > These attacks of opposite opinion need to stop. I’m guilty sometimes too. But am conscious of it and am being proactive. The newbies of the crew might want to tone down the pitchfork banter.

> > > >

> > > > You have it the wrong way round. LICC first accused QMany of “misinformed thinking” for his difference of opinion that should be noted is supported by many other more credible & knowledgable golfing brains.

> > > >

> > > > So I presented a more credible counter argument to LICC’s “misinformed thinking” comment directly from Tiger, Duval, Els, Garcia - to which LICC still hasn’t/can’t address them as they fundamentally undercut his whole premise of “misinformed thinking”. I’m simply using his own comments and logic in reverse.

> > > >

> > > > And challenging someone’s “opinion” is what these forums are for whether you’re a “newbie” or a long-time poster. knowledge or validity of thinking on a matter isn’t determined by the length of time ‘said’ person has been on a forum.

> > >

> > > Wrong. I never say anything negative about anyone who doesn’t say anything negative about me. I was called simpleminded by him. Don’t fault me for pointing out your weaknesses in your argument.

> >

> > Based on your response, it is you that is evidently “misinformed” of my argument & push back to your “misinformed thinking” comments to QMany. My original and subsequent posts to you have been simply asking you to clarify if you think Tiger, Duval, Els & Garcia (who all share poster QMany’s opinion about todays deeper fields / better athletes / skillsets) also have “misinformed thinking” due to this shared belief they all hold? And I ask you this same question again?

> >

> > But the rock & hard place you find yourself caught in (and why you still haven’t/can’t address this core question) is that you cannot credibly accuse Tiger, Duval, Els & Garcia of all having “misinformed thinking” for their shared (and opposing) beliefs to you on this subject. As I said, I know deep down you’d agree with me that Tiger, Duval, Els & Garcia all offer far more credible insight & knowledge on this subject than you & I.

> >

> > And your continued avoidance to this core question speaks volumes.

>

> Because your point with their quotes is silly. **Nicklaus and Player say the top players of their era were better than the top players today.** Do they not know about golf? More players than years ago exercise and do fitness training. Ok, so what? That doesn’t mean they are more talented golfers. Chamblee and others in golf have said that working out they way some players do today has negatively affected their swings. Tiger, Rory, Jason Day, and others have had injuries and altered swings or just reduced performance potentially resulting from the workouts they’ve done.

>

> You seem in over your head when it comes to debating. You stick to one point, even if misinformed or silly, and get immature in your responses to people who don’t agree. Try to keep things in perspective please.

 

I don't ever recall Jack Nicklaus saying that the top players in his generation were better than the top players today. I do recall a conversation he had with Tom Watson (?) where he acknowledged that Tiger might be the best ever.

 

And I don't understand how any of that is germane to the discussion on equipment removing the skill from play from the tee.

[bladehunter]

> @AWorkInProgress said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @AWorkInProgress said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > These attacks of opposite opinion need to stop. I’m guilty sometimes too. But am conscious of it and am being proactive. The newbies of the crew might want to tone down the pitchfork banter.

> > >

> > > You have it the wrong way round. LICC first accused QMany of “misinformed thinking” for his difference of opinion that should be noted is supported by many other more credible & knowledgable golfing brains.

> > >

> > > So I presented a more credible counter argument to LICC’s “misinformed thinking” comment directly from Tiger, Duval, Els, Garcia - to which LICC still hasn’t/can’t address them as they fundamentally undercut his whole premise of “misinformed thinking”. I’m simply using his own comments and logic in reverse.

> > >

> > > And challenging someone’s “opinion” is what these forums are for whether you’re a “newbie” or a long-time poster. knowledge or validity of thinking on a matter isn’t determined by the length of time ‘said’ person has been on a forum.

> >

> > I read that post. And it didn’t contain the venom that yours did. And you’re aware of that , you had no issue knowing who I was taking to above even though I didn’t mention you or quote anything.

> >

> > True , tenure isn’t a prerequisite anywhere for attacking an opinion. But.... 2 posts in is a bit extreme. I’m just saying. You are arguing an opinion , a clear opinion , and yet called me out directly for using the word “ fact” in a clearly hyperbolic manner. I was wrong to do so in that instance. But good grief you can’t now prance around claiming there’s some settled science on this topic. Cause there isn’t.

> >

> >

>

>

> @blade, it’s perfectly ok to challenge & question a poster who claims another poster has “misinformed thinking” on a topic when many of the games leading tour pros fundamentally disagree with LLIC on that very topic.

>

> And underlying your post I now see you still feel slighted that myself & others held you somewhat accountable to the words you wrote on a previous topic. It’s also ok to question a person to the words they write. The challenge with the written word is we have to be extra careful in what we type, and if people mean something different to the words they write, then either re-write what you actually mean and/or be honest enough when others question those words to say they didn’t accurately reflect what you intended to say or mean.

>

> Where I am wrong is thinking you had moved on from this previous discussion myself and others had with you. Questioning ones thoughts & words on a forum shouldn’t be taken personally as that’s what a forum is designed for.

>

> Lets hope no more thunderstorms today.

 

Yes to a degree. But not until I asked a relevant question later to have it ignored , since it challenged the narrative that you guys push. That’s when I realized it was simply a numbers game of posters , not a correct /incorrect thing.

 

I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said regarding words , and accountability......but. They should be read while standing in front of a mirror. What I’m trying to tell you is that you come off as quite the know everything ... but minus anything to back it up. And by that I mean , trust. People need to trust a posters stance on things like this , when you’re new , and you hop around and cherry pick arguing points , people don’t know how to take that. And not in a good way. In a “ who’s this guy “ kind of way. Just think about this topic. You’re arguing tooth and nail out of thin air that equipment makes no difference , that it’s all superior athletes in golf now. And there’s zero proof to prove either side of that coin. You’re hanging your hat on media hyperbole, that has us believe that Brooks K. Is a monster. Guess what. We all just saw his pics. He’s less fit looking than 100 year old Gary player.

 

The truth is the answer is a combo of both bigger ( not much more fit ) guys playing golf and equipment that just goes farther and straight. No argument to be had from that. None.

 

I’m saying this to you as a guy who loves to argue ( like you ) and who has strong opinions (like you ). But a guy who also realized that he offends often with his posts. And that’s something I’m not happy with and am trying to change.

 

Certain topics ( like strokes gained or modern equipment and it’s effects ) are going to be hot button. But I don’t think we have to go to the “ I know you are but what am I “ line of debate because we see two sides of a coin. These are not exact sciences that are beyond reproach. You ask for facts to refute your opinion , but your opinions are not including hard facts. Just stats and generalizations. Facts and statistics do not have a direct correlation, in fact (pardon the pun) stats are associated with Math which is considered fact. But they are not a factual unit of math. ( yes I know the study of stats is included with math ) So maybe we can back off the “ I know a stat , so you’re wrong “ Stance and listen to what the other person is saying.

[LICC]

> @gvogel said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @AWorkInProgress said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @AWorkInProgress said:

> > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > These attacks of opposite opinion need to stop. I’m guilty sometimes too. But am conscious of it and am being proactive. The newbies of the crew might want to tone down the pitchfork banter.

> > > > >

> > > > > You have it the wrong way round. LICC first accused QMany of “misinformed thinking” for his difference of opinion that should be noted is supported by many other more credible & knowledgable golfing brains.

> > > > >

> > > > > So I presented a more credible counter argument to LICC’s “misinformed thinking” comment directly from Tiger, Duval, Els, Garcia - to which LICC still hasn’t/can’t address them as they fundamentally undercut his whole premise of “misinformed thinking”. I’m simply using his own comments and logic in reverse.

> > > > >

> > > > > And challenging someone’s “opinion” is what these forums are for whether you’re a “newbie” or a long-time poster. knowledge or validity of thinking on a matter isn’t determined by the length of time ‘said’ person has been on a forum.

> > > >

> > > > Wrong. I never say anything negative about anyone who doesn’t say anything negative about me. I was called simpleminded by him. Don’t fault me for pointing out your weaknesses in your argument.

> > >

> > > Based on your response, it is you that is evidently “misinformed” of my argument & push back to your “misinformed thinking” comments to QMany. My original and subsequent posts to you have been simply asking you to clarify if you think Tiger, Duval, Els & Garcia (who all share poster QMany’s opinion about todays deeper fields / better athletes / skillsets) also have “misinformed thinking” due to this shared belief they all hold? And I ask you this same question again?

> > >

> > > But the rock & hard place you find yourself caught in (and why you still haven’t/can’t address this core question) is that you cannot credibly accuse Tiger, Duval, Els & Garcia of all having “misinformed thinking” for their shared (and opposing) beliefs to you on this subject. As I said, I know deep down you’d agree with me that Tiger, Duval, Els & Garcia all offer far more credible insight & knowledge on this subject than you & I.

> > >

> > > And your continued avoidance to this core question speaks volumes.

> >

> > Because your point with their quotes is silly. **Nicklaus and Player say the top players of their era were better than the top players today.** Do they not know about golf? More players than years ago exercise and do fitness training. Ok, so what? That doesn’t mean they are more talented golfers. Chamblee and others in golf have said that working out they way some players do today has negatively affected their swings. Tiger, Rory, Jason Day, and others have had injuries and altered swings or just reduced performance potentially resulting from the workouts they’ve done.

> >

> > You seem in over your head when it comes to debating. You stick to one point, even if misinformed or silly, and get immature in your responses to people who don’t agree. Try to keep things in perspective please.

>

> I don't ever recall Jack Nicklaus saying that the top players in his generation were better than the top players today. I do recall a conversation he had with Tom Watson (?) where he acknowledged that Tiger might be the best ever.

>

> And I don't understand how any of that is germane to the discussion on equipment removing the skill from play from the tee.

 

He did. It was a few years ago but I remember the interview.

[LICC]

> @AWorkInProgress said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @AWorkInProgress said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @AWorkInProgress said:

> > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > These attacks of opposite opinion need to stop. I’m guilty sometimes too. But am conscious of it and am being proactive. The newbies of the crew might want to tone down the pitchfork banter.

> > > > >

> > > > > You have it the wrong way round. LICC first accused QMany of “misinformed thinking” for his difference of opinion that should be noted is supported by many other more credible & knowledgable golfing brains.

> > > > >

> > > > > So I presented a more credible counter argument to LICC’s “misinformed thinking” comment directly from Tiger, Duval, Els, Garcia - to which LICC still hasn’t/can’t address them as they fundamentally undercut his whole premise of “misinformed thinking”. I’m simply using his own comments and logic in reverse.

> > > > >

> > > > > And challenging someone’s “opinion” is what these forums are for whether you’re a “newbie” or a long-time poster. knowledge or validity of thinking on a matter isn’t determined by the length of time ‘said’ person has been on a forum.

> > > >

> > > > Wrong. I never say anything negative about anyone who doesn’t say anything negative about me. I was called simpleminded by him. Don’t fault me for pointing out your weaknesses in your argument.

> > >

> > > Based on your response, it is you that is evidently “misinformed” of my argument & push back to your “misinformed thinking” comments to QMany. My original and subsequent posts to you have been simply asking you to clarify if you think Tiger, Duval, Els & Garcia (who all share poster QMany’s opinion about todays deeper fields / better athletes / skillsets) also have “misinformed thinking” due to this shared belief they all hold? And I ask you this same question again?

> > >

> > > But the rock & hard place you find yourself caught in (and why you still haven’t/can’t address this core question) is that you cannot credibly accuse Tiger, Duval, Els & Garcia of all having “misinformed thinking” for their shared (and opposing) beliefs to you on this subject. As I said, I know deep down you’d agree with me that Tiger, Duval, Els & Garcia all offer far more credible insight & knowledge on this subject than you & I.

> > >

> > > And your continued avoidance to this core question speaks volumes.

> >

> > Because your point with their quotes is silly. Nicklaus and Player say the top players of their era were better than the top players today. Do they not know about golf? More players than years ago exercise and do fitness training. Ok, so what? That doesn’t mean they are more talented golfers. Chamblee and others in golf have said that working out they way some players do today has negatively affected their swings. Tiger, Rory, Jason Day, and others have had injuries and altered swings or just reduced performance potentially resulting from the workouts they’ve done.

> >

> > You seem in over your head when it comes to debating. You stick to one point, even if misinformed or silly, and get immature in your responses to people who don’t agree. Try to keep things in perspective please.

>

> Nice Try.

>

> “I think we have more good players today than we've ever had in the game of golf. And I think that's saying a lot because we had a lot of good players when I played.” - Jack Nicklaus

>

> I can quote you another 10+ players (from all generations) that also believe todays fields are deeper than ever in large part due to better athletes, skillset, training, coaching, knowledge with improvement in equipment a part of that dynamic.

>

> To use your own words “You seem in over your head when it comes to debating.” Try again.

 

You’re flailing. What he said was there are more good players today but there were more great players when he played.

[bladehunter]

> @AWorkInProgress said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @AWorkInProgress said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @AWorkInProgress said:

> > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > These attacks of opposite opinion need to stop. I’m guilty sometimes too. But am conscious of it and am being proactive. The newbies of the crew might want to tone down the pitchfork banter.

> > > > >

> > > > > You have it the wrong way round. LICC first accused QMany of “misinformed thinking” for his difference of opinion that should be noted is supported by many other more credible & knowledgable golfing brains.

> > > > >

> > > > > So I presented a more credible counter argument to LICC’s “misinformed thinking” comment directly from Tiger, Duval, Els, Garcia - to which LICC still hasn’t/can’t address them as they fundamentally undercut his whole premise of “misinformed thinking”. I’m simply using his own comments and logic in reverse.

> > > > >

> > > > > And challenging someone’s “opinion” is what these forums are for whether you’re a “newbie” or a long-time poster. knowledge or validity of thinking on a matter isn’t determined by the length of time ‘said’ person has been on a forum.

> > > >

> > > > I read that post. And it didn’t contain the venom that yours did. And you’re aware of that , you had no issue knowing who I was taking to above even though I didn’t mention you or quote anything.

> > > >

> > > > True , tenure isn’t a prerequisite anywhere for attacking an opinion. But.... 2 posts in is a bit extreme. I’m just saying. You are arguing an opinion , a clear opinion , and yet called me out directly for using the word “ fact” in a clearly hyperbolic manner. I was wrong to do so in that instance. But good grief you can’t now prance around claiming there’s some settled science on this topic. Cause there isn’t.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > > @blade, it’s perfectly ok to challenge & question a poster who claims another poster has “misinformed thinking” on a topic when many of the games leading tour pros fundamentally disagree with LLIC on that very topic.

> > >

> > > And underlying your post I now see you still feel slighted that myself & others held you somewhat accountable to the words you wrote on a previous topic. It’s also ok to question a person to the words they write. The challenge with the written word is we have to be extra careful in what we type, and if people mean something different to the words they write, then either re-write what you actually mean and/or be honest enough when others question those words to say they didn’t accurately reflect what you intended to say or mean.

> > >

> > > Where I am wrong is thinking you had moved on from this previous discussion myself and others had with you. Questioning ones thoughts & words on a forum shouldn’t be taken personally as that’s what a forum is designed for.

> > >

> > > Lets hope no more thunderstorms today.

> >

> > Yes to a degree. But not until I asked a relevant question later to have it ignored , since it challenged the narrative that you guys push. That’s when I realized it was simply a numbers game of posters , not a correct /incorrect thing.

> >

> > I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said regarding words , and accountability......but. They should be read while standing in front of a mirror. What I’m trying to tell you is that you come off as quite the know everything ... but minus anything to back it up. And by that I mean , trust. People need to trust a posters stance on things like this , when you’re new , and you hop around and cherry pick arguing points , people don’t know how to take that. And not in a good way. In a “ who’s this guy “ kind of way. Just think about this topic. You’re arguing tooth and nail out of thin air that equipment makes no difference , that it’s all superior athletes in golf now. And there’s zero proof to prove either side of that coin. You’re hanging your hat on media hyperbole, that has us believe that Brooks K. Is a monster. Guess what. We all just saw his pics. He’s less fit looking than 100 year old Gary player.

> >

> > The truth is the answer is a combo of both bigger ( not much more fit ) guys playing golf and equipment that just goes farther and straight. No argument to be had from that. None.

> >

> > I’m saying this to you as a guy who loves to argue ( like you ) and who has strong opinions (like you ). But a guy who also realized that he offends often with his posts. And that’s something I’m not happy with and am trying to change.

> >

> > Certain topics ( like strokes gained or modern equipment and it’s effects ) are going to be hot button. But I don’t think we have to go to the “ I know you are but what am I “ line of debate because we see two sides of a coin. These are not exact sciences that are beyond reproach. You ask for facts to refute your opinion , but your opinions are not including hard facts. Just stats and generalizations. Facts and statistics do not have a direct correlation, in fact (pardon the pun) stats are associated with Math which is considered fact. But they are not a factual unit of math. ( yes I know the study of stats is included with math ) So maybe we can back off the “ I know a stat , so you’re wrong “ Stance and listen to what the other person is saying.

>

> No blade, you have it the wrong way round again. I’ve never once stated “equipment makes no difference”. Please quote me where I’ve said that. If you took the time to look, I’ve clearly stated (and I quote) “todays fields are deeper than ever in large part due to better athletes, skillset, training, coaching, knowledge with improvement in equipment a part of that dynamic.” This is also what Tiger, Duval, Sergio, Els and Jack are also supporting. Please go back and re-read more closely.

>

> And don’t let the certainty in what I’m quoting be misunderstood as me “knowing it all”. On this topic I’m deferring to far more qualified and experienced minds than mine like Tiger, Duval, Garcia, Els, Jack - and they have LICC on his heals as these ‘greater minds’ on this deeper fields topic undercut his whole premise to his argument when LICC declared another poster having “misinformed thinking” for sharing what Tiger, Duval, Garcia, Els, Jack (and many other tour pros) agree with.

>

> And if you still feel slighted by myself and others for holding you accountable to your words & false statements from another thread/topic, and despite providing you with a plethora of impartial, objective and wide-reaching core facts to back up precisely what we were saying (I can re-quote you all these facts again if needed) - please direct message me going forward as I don’t want to clog up this thread. Appreciated.

 

lol. Don’t want to clog up this thread ? Wow.

 

Well at least we know where the line is and what type of conversation to expect going forward. If polite direct messages , nor polite public call outs will do anything , then it’s clear that you have no intention of hearing what I’m saying , taking all of 40 seconds to reflect on it.

 

Citing out of context quotes from respected members of the game does nothing to prove your point. You can flip it around and find Jack , Gary or Duval also citing equipment at the reason. Why ? Cause it’s some of both. Any sane person knows that. Equipment is a huge part of it. If it wasn’t nobody would rail against rolling it back.

[snizzle]

This thread is a huge mess..

[LICC]

> @AWorkInProgress said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @AWorkInProgress said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @AWorkInProgress said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @AWorkInProgress said:

> > > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > These attacks of opposite opinion need to stop. I’m guilty sometimes too. But am conscious of it and am being proactive. The newbies of the crew might want to tone down the pitchfork banter.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You have it the wrong way round. LICC first accused QMany of “misinformed thinking” for his difference of opinion that should be noted is supported by many other more credible & knowledgable golfing brains.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So I presented a more credible counter argument to LICC’s “misinformed thinking” comment directly from Tiger, Duval, Els, Garcia - to which LICC still hasn’t/can’t address them as they fundamentally undercut his whole premise of “misinformed thinking”. I’m simply using his own comments and logic in reverse.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > And challenging someone’s “opinion” is what these forums are for whether you’re a “newbie” or a long-time poster. knowledge or validity of thinking on a matter isn’t determined by the length of time ‘said’ person has been on a forum.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Wrong. I never say anything negative about anyone who doesn’t say anything negative about me. I was called simpleminded by him. Don’t fault me for pointing out your weaknesses in your argument.

> > > > >

> > > > > Based on your response, it is you that is evidently “misinformed” of my argument & push back to your “misinformed thinking” comments to QMany. My original and subsequent posts to you have been simply asking you to clarify if you think Tiger, Duval, Els & Garcia (who all share poster QMany’s opinion about todays deeper fields / better athletes / skillsets) also have “misinformed thinking” due to this shared belief they all hold? And I ask you this same question again?

> > > > >

> > > > > But the rock & hard place you find yourself caught in (and why you still haven’t/can’t address this core question) is that you cannot credibly accuse Tiger, Duval, Els & Garcia of all having “misinformed thinking” for their shared (and opposing) beliefs to you on this subject. As I said, I know deep down you’d agree with me that Tiger, Duval, Els & Garcia all offer far more credible insight & knowledge on this subject than you & I.

> > > > >

> > > > > And your continued avoidance to this core question speaks volumes.

> > > >

> > > > Because your point with their quotes is silly. Nicklaus and Player say the top players of their era were better than the top players today. Do they not know about golf? More players than years ago exercise and do fitness training. Ok, so what? That doesn’t mean they are more talented golfers. Chamblee and others in golf have said that working out they way some players do today has negatively affected their swings. Tiger, Rory, Jason Day, and others have had injuries and altered swings or just reduced performance potentially resulting from the workouts they’ve done.

> > > >

> > > > You seem in over your head when it comes to debating. You stick to one point, even if misinformed or silly, and get immature in your responses to people who don’t agree. Try to keep things in perspective please.

> > >

> > > Nice Try.

> > >

> > > “I think we have more good players today than we've ever had in the game of golf. And I think that's saying a lot because we had a lot of good players when I played.” - Jack Nicklaus

> > >

> > > I can quote you another 10+ players (from all generations) that also believe todays fields are deeper than ever in large part due to better athletes, skillset, training, coaching, knowledge with improvement in equipment a part of that dynamic.

> > >

> > > To use your own words “You seem in over your head when it comes to debating.” Try again.

> >

> > You’re flailing. What he said was there are more good players today but there were more great players when he played.

>

> Please provide the quote you claim. And this was Jack’s exact response when asked why are fields deeper today - which again undercuts another key premise of your faltering argument that fields aren’t any deeper today. Jack himself disagrees with you, as do Tiger, Duval, Garcia, Els and so many more tour pros. It’s just the reality my friend, and as much as you want to try ignoring their opposing and more credible views, you cannot falsely claim they have “misinformed thinking” for thinking the same as QMany who you previously claimed had “misinformed thinking”.

 

It’s amazing your lack of awareness of how badly you sound and how weak is your argument. Media quotes. Lies about those statements. Ignoring actual evidence. But keep digging that hole, you’re just hurting your credibility more and more.

[bladehunter]

@AWorkInProgress

 

It’s pretty easy to come up with anecdotal evidence to refute your use of jack gary etc ..... it proves nothing same as your quotes that they cite strong , big players as welll.

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/gary-player-says-the-golf-ball-must-be-slowed-down/amp

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/diaz_nicklaus/amp

 

Quite an interesting opinion from Monte on how many MOrE majors tiger wins if the ball remained balata and driver small. He says 20 plus even with injuries. Which is exactly the point Scott is making.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/golf/news/colin-montgomerie-tiger-woods-wouldve-won-more-without-equipment-changes/amp/

[LICC]

> @bladehunter said:

>

> @AWorkInProgress

>

> It’s pretty easy to come up with anecdotal evidence to refute your use of jack gary etc ..... it proves nothing same as your quotes that they cite strong , big players as welll.

>

> https://www.golfdigest.com/story/gary-player-says-the-golf-ball-must-be-slowed-down/amp

>

> https://www.golfdigest.com/story/diaz_nicklaus/amp

 

Lee Trevino: “But as far as who had more of the best players, I believe my group was better. No question. ... Because we learned the game differently, on bad grass and good grass and a lot of bad lies, we had more shots. When we got those manicured golf courses, the game seemed so easy. That's what happened to Johnny Miller when he'd go crazy low in the desert. So I don't think the best players are as complete today, simply because they didn't have to learn what we had to learn. Being a shotmaker was a forced necessity. Today's golf laboratory is sterile. It doesn't call for anything.“

[LICC]

> @AWorkInProgress said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @AWorkInProgress said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @AWorkInProgress said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @AWorkInProgress said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @AWorkInProgress said:

> > > > > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > > > These attacks of opposite opinion need to stop. I’m guilty sometimes too. But am conscious of it and am being proactive. The newbies of the crew might want to tone down the pitchfork banter.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > You have it the wrong way round. LICC first accused QMany of “misinformed thinking” for his difference of opinion that should be noted is supported by many other more credible & knowledgable golfing brains.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > So I presented a more credible counter argument to LICC’s “misinformed thinking” comment directly from Tiger, Duval, Els, Garcia - to which LICC still hasn’t/can’t address them as they fundamentally undercut his whole premise of “misinformed thinking”. I’m simply using his own comments and logic in reverse.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > And challenging someone’s “opinion” is what these forums are for whether you’re a “newbie” or a long-time poster. knowledge or validity of thinking on a matter isn’t determined by the length of time ‘said’ person has been on a forum.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Wrong. I never say anything negative about anyone who doesn’t say anything negative about me. I was called simpleminded by him. Don’t fault me for pointing out your weaknesses in your argument.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Based on your response, it is you that is evidently “misinformed” of my argument & push back to your “misinformed thinking” comments to QMany. My original and subsequent posts to you have been simply asking you to clarify if you think Tiger, Duval, Els & Garcia (who all share poster QMany’s opinion about todays deeper fields / better athletes / skillsets) also have “misinformed thinking” due to this shared belief they all hold? And I ask you this same question again?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > But the rock & hard place you find yourself caught in (and why you still haven’t/can’t address this core question) is that you cannot credibly accuse Tiger, Duval, Els & Garcia of all having “misinformed thinking” for their shared (and opposing) beliefs to you on this subject. As I said, I know deep down you’d agree with me that Tiger, Duval, Els & Garcia all offer far more credible insight & knowledge on this subject than you & I.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > And your continued avoidance to this core question speaks volumes.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Because your point with their quotes is silly. Nicklaus and Player say the top players of their era were better than the top players today. Do they not know about golf? More players than years ago exercise and do fitness training. Ok, so what? That doesn’t mean they are more talented golfers. Chamblee and others in golf have said that working out they way some players do today has negatively affected their swings. Tiger, Rory, Jason Day, and others have had injuries and altered swings or just reduced performance potentially resulting from the workouts they’ve done.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You seem in over your head when it comes to debating. You stick to one point, even if misinformed or silly, and get immature in your responses to people who don’t agree. Try to keep things in perspective please.

> > > > >

> > > > > Nice Try.

> > > > >

> > > > > “I think we have more good players today than we've ever had in the game of golf. And I think that's saying a lot because we had a lot of good players when I played.” - Jack Nicklaus

> > > > >

> > > > > I can quote you another 10+ players (from all generations) that also believe todays fields are deeper than ever in large part due to better athletes, skillset, training, coaching, knowledge with improvement in equipment a part of that dynamic.

> > > > >

> > > > > To use your own words “You seem in over your head when it comes to debating.” Try again.

> > > >

> > > > You’re flailing. What he said was there are more good players today but there were more great players when he played.

> > >

> > > Please provide the quote you claim. And this was Jack’s exact response when asked why are fields deeper today - which again undercuts another key premise of your faltering argument that fields aren’t any deeper today. Jack himself disagrees with you, as do Tiger, Duval, Garcia, Els and so many more tour pros. It’s just the reality my friend, and as much as you want to try ignoring their opposing and more credible views, you cannot falsely claim they have “misinformed thinking” for thinking the same as QMany who you previously claimed had “misinformed thinking”.

> >

> > It’s amazing your lack of awareness of how badly you sound and how weak is your argument. Media quotes. Lies about those statements. Ignoring actual evidence. But keep digging that hole, you’re just hurting your credibility more and more.

>

> “Lies about those statements.”

>

> Please point out my “lies” about those statements.

>

> Thanks

 

You either lied or were ignorant on Nicklaus’ statements on this issue. For the good of your reputation and credibility, you should tone down considerably.

[bladehunter]

> @AWorkInProgress said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > @AWorkInProgress

> >

> > It’s pretty easy to come up with anecdotal evidence to refute your use of jack gary etc ..... it proves nothing same as your quotes that they cite strong , big players as welll.

> >

> > https://www.golfdigest.com/story/gary-player-says-the-golf-ball-must-be-slowed-down/amp

> >

> > https://www.golfdigest.com/story/diaz_nicklaus/amp

> >

> > Quite an interesting opinion from Monte on how many MOrE majors tiger wins if the ball remained balata and driver small. He says 20 plus even with injuries. Which is exactly the point Scott is making.

> >

> > https://www.cbssports.com/golf/news/colin-montgomerie-tiger-woods-wouldve-won-more-without-equipment-changes/amp/

>

> So how exactly does this counter any of what Jack, Tiger, Duval, Els, Garcia (and others) along with myself and QMany have stated. See again below. If anything it supports what we’re saying.

>

> “todays fields are deeper than ever in large part due to better athletes, skillset, training, coaching, knowledge with improvement in equipment a part of that dynamic.” - AWorkInProgress

 

Lol. Come on man. So now you’re agreeing with me , and somehow still arguing ? How does this continue ?

[Tyeetime]

I tend to agree with Lee Trevino. Whenever Rory or someone play a creative shot from behind a tree, the TV people get all excited and replay it over and over. Well this was routine stuff not long ago. Shot making, shaping, trajectory etc were part of the toolbox. Now the refined skill is length. That's it. I don't find that particularly entertaining, although I guess some do given there is a "Long Drive" tour on TV now.

[bladehunter]

So let’s put this train in full stop.

 

Let’s clearly state what you’re arguing for and against , minus. ( very important here ). MINUS any “ I gotcha “ statements on any possible word faux pas you might hang your hat on. As in what is the actual argument minus the need to be “ right “?

[jmck]

> @AWorkInProgress said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > @AWorkInProgress

> >

> > It’s pretty easy to come up with anecdotal evidence to refute your use of jack gary etc ..... it proves nothing same as your quotes that they cite strong , big players as welll.

> >

> > https://www.golfdigest.com/story/gary-player-says-the-golf-ball-must-be-slowed-down/amp

> >

> > https://www.golfdigest.com/story/diaz_nicklaus/amp

> >

> > Quite an interesting opinion from Monte on how many MOrE majors tiger wins if the ball remained balata and driver small. He says 20 plus even with injuries. Which is exactly the point Scott is making.

> >

> > https://www.cbssports.com/golf/news/colin-montgomerie-tiger-woods-wouldve-won-more-without-equipment-changes/amp/

>

> So how exactly does this counter any of what Jack, Tiger, Duval, Els, Garcia (and others) along with myself and QMany have stated. See again below. If anything it supports what we’re saying.

>

> “todays fields are deeper than ever in large part due to better athletes, skillset, training, coaching, knowledge with improvement in equipment a part of that dynamic.” - AWorkInProgress

 

My god dude, none of that has anything at all to do with anything Adam Scott is saying.

[LICC]

> @AWorkInProgress said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @AWorkInProgress said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @AWorkInProgress said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @AWorkInProgress said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @AWorkInProgress said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @AWorkInProgress said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > These attacks of opposite opinion need to stop. I’m guilty sometimes too. But am conscious of it and am being proactive. The newbies of the crew might want to tone down the pitchfork banter.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > You have it the wrong way round. LICC first accused QMany of “misinformed thinking” for his difference of opinion that should be noted is supported by many other more credible & knowledgable golfing brains.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > So I presented a more credible counter argument to LICC’s “misinformed thinking” comment directly from Tiger, Duval, Els, Garcia - to which LICC still hasn’t/can’t address them as they fundamentally undercut his whole premise of “misinformed thinking”. I’m simply using his own comments and logic in reverse.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > And challenging someone’s “opinion” is what these forums are for whether you’re a “newbie” or a long-time poster. knowledge or validity of thinking on a matter isn’t determined by the length of time ‘said’ person has been on a forum.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Wrong. I never say anything negative about anyone who doesn’t say anything negative about me. I was called simpleminded by him. Don’t fault me for pointing out your weaknesses in your argument.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Based on your response, it is you that is evidently “misinformed” of my argument & push back to your “misinformed thinking” comments to QMany. My original and subsequent posts to you have been simply asking you to clarify if you think Tiger, Duval, Els & Garcia (who all share poster QMany’s opinion about todays deeper fields / better athletes / skillsets) also have “misinformed thinking” due to this shared belief they all hold? And I ask you this same question again?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > But the rock & hard place you find yourself caught in (and why you still haven’t/can’t address this core question) is that you cannot credibly accuse Tiger, Duval, Els & Garcia of all having “misinformed thinking” for their shared (and opposing) beliefs to you on this subject. As I said, I know deep down you’d agree with me that Tiger, Duval, Els & Garcia all offer far more credible insight & knowledge on this subject than you & I.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > And your continued avoidance to this core question speaks volumes.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Because your point with their quotes is silly. Nicklaus and Player say the top players of their era were better than the top players today. Do they not know about golf? More players than years ago exercise and do fitness training. Ok, so what? That doesn’t mean they are more talented golfers. Chamblee and others in golf have said that working out they way some players do today has negatively affected their swings. Tiger, Rory, Jason Day, and others have had injuries and altered swings or just reduced performance potentially resulting from the workouts they’ve done.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You seem in over your head when it comes to debating. You stick to one point, even if misinformed or silly, and get immature in your responses to people who don’t agree. Try to keep things in perspective please.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Nice Try.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > “I think we have more good players today than we've ever had in the game of golf. And I think that's saying a lot because we had a lot of good players when I played.” - Jack Nicklaus

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I can quote you another 10+ players (from all generations) that also believe todays fields are deeper than ever in large part due to better athletes, skillset, training, coaching, knowledge with improvement in equipment a part of that dynamic.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > To use your own words “You seem in over your head when it comes to debating.” Try again.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You’re flailing. What he said was there are more good players today but there were more great players when he played.

> > > > >

> > > > > Please provide the quote you claim. And this was Jack’s exact response when asked why are fields deeper today - which again undercuts another key premise of your faltering argument that fields aren’t any deeper today. Jack himself disagrees with you, as do Tiger, Duval, Garcia, Els and so many more tour pros. It’s just the reality my friend, and as much as you want to try ignoring their opposing and more credible views, you cannot falsely claim they have “misinformed thinking” for thinking the same as QMany who you previously claimed had “misinformed thinking”.

> > > >

> > > > It’s amazing your lack of awareness of how badly you sound and how weak is your argument. Media quotes. Lies about those statements. Ignoring actual evidence. But keep digging that hole, you’re just hurting your credibility more and more.

> > >

> > > “Lies about those statements.”

> > >

> > > Please point out my “lies” about those statements.

> > >

> > > Thanks

> >

> > You either lied or were ignorant on Nicklaus’ statements on this issue. For the good of your reputation and credibility, you should tone down considerably.

>

> Please point out exactly where this “lie” is and/or where this “ignorance” is in quoting Jack’s own comments on depth of fields today to his day.

>

> “I think we have more good players today than we've ever had in the game of golf. And I think that's saying a lot because we had a lot of good players when I played.” - Jack Nicklaus

 

Educate yourself. Look at the piece @bladehunter posted. I’m not engaging in your low level arguments and scrambling. Regain some credibility first.

[LICC]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @AWorkInProgress said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > @AWorkInProgress

> > >

> > > It’s pretty easy to come up with anecdotal evidence to refute your use of jack gary etc ..... it proves nothing same as your quotes that they cite strong , big players as welll.

> > >

> > > https://www.golfdigest.com/story/gary-player-says-the-golf-ball-must-be-slowed-down/amp

> > >

> > > https://www.golfdigest.com/story/diaz_nicklaus/amp

> > >

> > > Quite an interesting opinion from Monte on how many MOrE majors tiger wins if the ball remained balata and driver small. He says 20 plus even with injuries. Which is exactly the point Scott is making.

> > >

> > > https://www.cbssports.com/golf/news/colin-montgomerie-tiger-woods-wouldve-won-more-without-equipment-changes/amp/

> >

> > So how exactly does this counter any of what Jack, Tiger, Duval, Els, Garcia (and others) along with myself and QMany have stated. See again below. If anything it supports what we’re saying.

> >

> > “todays fields are deeper than ever in large part due to better athletes, skillset, training, coaching, knowledge with improvement in equipment a part of that dynamic.” - AWorkInProgress

>

> Lol. Come on man. So now you’re agreeing with me , and somehow still arguing ? How does this continue ?

 

 

He says better equipment makes fields deeper in talent. Ugh, that makes zero rational sense.

[bladehunter]

> @AWorkInProgress said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > So let’s put this train in full stop.

> >

> > Let’s clearly state what you’re arguing for and against , minus. ( very important here ). MINUS any “ I gotcha “ statements on any possible word faux pas you might hang your hat on. As in what is the actual argument minus the need to be “ right “?

>

> I've already stated (numerous times) what my position is and what I'm pushing back on with regards to LICC's “misinformed thinking” statement to a fellow poster who's very thinking is supported by Tiger, Jack, Duval, Garcia, Els. Please just re-read carefully what I've clearly stated all along. Thanks.

All I’ve read is what you just posted. Reposted roughly 30 times. Which is the opposite of what an actual discussion is. It’s more akin to a monkey poop fight at the zoo.

 

Edit. So apparently M-onkey and P-oo- p are now words to sanitize ? Wow

 

[LICC]

> @AWorkInProgress said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > So let’s put this train in full stop.

> >

> > Let’s clearly state what you’re arguing for and against , minus. ( very important here ). MINUS any “ I gotcha “ statements on any possible word faux pas you might hang your hat on. As in what is the actual argument minus the need to be “ right “?

>

> I've already stated (numerous times) what my position is and what I'm pushing back on with regards to LICC's “misinformed thinking” statement to a fellow poster who's very thinking is supported by Tiger, Jack, Duval, Garcia, Els. Please just re-read carefully what I've clearly stated all along. Thanks.

 

Still lying about Nicklaus ...

[LICC]

> @AWorkInProgress said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @AWorkInProgress said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @AWorkInProgress

> > > > >

> > > > > It’s pretty easy to come up with anecdotal evidence to refute your use of jack gary etc ..... it proves nothing same as your quotes that they cite strong , big players as welll.

> > > > >

> > > > > https://www.golfdigest.com/story/gary-player-says-the-golf-ball-must-be-slowed-down/amp

> > > > >

> > > > > https://www.golfdigest.com/story/diaz_nicklaus/amp

> > > > >

> > > > > Quite an interesting opinion from Monte on how many MOrE majors tiger wins if the ball remained balata and driver small. He says 20 plus even with injuries. Which is exactly the point Scott is making.

> > > > >

> > > > > https://www.cbssports.com/golf/news/colin-montgomerie-tiger-woods-wouldve-won-more-without-equipment-changes/amp/

> > > >

> > > > So how exactly does this counter any of what Jack, Tiger, Duval, Els, Garcia (and others) along with myself and QMany have stated. See again below. If anything it supports what we’re saying.

> > > >

> > > > “todays fields are deeper than ever in large part due to better athletes, skillset, training, coaching, knowledge with improvement in equipment a part of that dynamic.” - AWorkInProgress

> > >

> > > Lol. Come on man. So now you’re agreeing with me , and somehow still arguing ? How does this continue ?

> >

> >

> > He says better equipment makes fields deeper in talent. Ugh, that makes zero rational sense.

>

> Clearly you can’t read or understand what has already been clearly written. I’ll repost it below once more for you. Good grief.

>

> “todays fields are deeper than ever in large part due to better athletes, skillset, training, coaching, knowledge with improvement in equipment a part of that dynamic.” - AWorkInProgress

>

> My push back to you directly (and where you’re getting flustered) is because you originally claimed QMany has “misinformed thinking” when his thinking is supported by Tiger, Jack, Duval, Garcia, Els - and now you can’t credibly claim they also have “misinformed thinking”.

 

Now you are misinterpreting your own statement. This has gotten comical.