What I've learned while watching Shell's Wonderfull World of golf....

[Titleist99]

 

Exactly my observation but you expressed it more (clearly) than myself. I was ridiculed for those thoughts but I digress...

I've recently watched The World series of Golf and Challenged golf, which I recommend on YouTube...I can tell you that Shell's WWOG

has been digitally enhanced IMO making them more visually pleasing to watch....just an observation. I'll give the players of years gone by more

respect now because of the conditions. You have to also remember that Links courses didn't look anything like they do now...agronomy is one of the biggest

difference... Also, crowds were a bit more subdued...LOL!

[mosesgolf]

That hitting fairways and greens are paramount then and now.

Greens definitely slower back then.

260 yards used to LONG off the tee.

[BobMorris]

What I learned....and yet already knew, is that the majority of today's pampered players would throw a conniption fit if they had to play on courses in that condition.

[Titleist99]

You are so right...

[Titleist99]

I watched a match on Shell's WWOG between Sam Snead and Ben Hogan from 1965. It's amazing how good those guys were at a later stage in their lives. I still saw long irons into par 5's and a few wedges into par4's. What amazed me was the fact that golfers was complaining about the same thing, gusting wind (Hogan) then as they do now and blaming anything bad on outside agencies.....LOL!

To achieve a high level of success, most playing pro IMO, they only concentrate on the positive of a round and never accent the negative....IMO IMO.

Some things stay the same....LOL! By the way: If you want to see Hogan flatten out that swing....go to YouTube.

Houston Country Club...around 7000 yards

[Pepperturbo]

No matter who said it, I'm afraid I have to disagree with that broad brush "modern way" assertion. I prefer quick greens. Both my last two clubs kept medium to large undulated greens in the 11-12 stemp range and on tournament day pushed them a touch.

The most significant error I see with people that buy into fly it there with SW or LW; most of them end up with extra strokes. They are not skilled at controlling spin and throwing the ball at the pin; it usually runs off the green, often into a bunker, high rough or a pond, adding 1-3 strokes.

Last weekend I got up and down seven times to save par, mostly with PW, SW and a few LWs. Greens were about 10 on the stemp. I use the club that depends on undulations, speed of the green, pin location, drainage, hill/water influences and what's closest to the green edge nearest the pin, and last consideration is the amount of turf between the ball and green border. I want the ball to hit a particular spot, then run-out to the pin like a putt or land it behind the cup and spin back towards the pin.

I understand if someone is selling something, but otherwise, don't understand ANYBODY with credentials referring to PGA pros using ONLY "X" for... least of all Ledbetter. LPGA pros are a part of his stable of pros, and they use all sorts of clubs around greens. That's like saying all pros use strong lofts and all play TX flex; neither is true. Sure, most of the kids on the KF tour use SW and LW more than other clubs, but they soon learn when reaching the PGA other short irons have green-side value as well. They say "modern" because its seen as new by kids... it doesn't take much time to pass before it's no longer modern but smart to pick the right club.

[Obee]

Wait, wasn't this shot at the Masters during his "troublesome times" around the greens? Honest question. Not meaning to add fuel to the fire (okay, maybe a little!)

[Hawkeye77]

LOL!

I don't think so - pretty sure that's Haney in the black Nike suit with his hands in pockets (which I didn't know or suspect until I saw this pic), just went and did a little surfing and magically found a pic of he and Tiger wearing pretty much the exact same clothes, so maybe the vid was shot at one of the last Masters Hank was his coach.

 

Found another of all three boys together. In the vid I couldn't figure out why Stevie would have a pullover over his Masters overalls, but he did. Love Google!

 

[Titleist99]

If you got up and down seven times, god bless you....keep doing what you do. the advice was meant for the better player and those that want to advance their game.

If it does not apply to you, then by all means don't try it. Just informing the public as to what most PGATOUR players do. IMO

[Pepperturbo]

Guess it depends what most people believe is a better golfer. Does my 3-5 index qualify? If it does then it was targeting the likes of me and those much better. Not everyone subscribes to that belief or wants unsolicited advice. As I said, I've played with PGA, Champions and LPGA tour players plus a relative played on the PGA back in the 50s & 60s. Choice in club depends on conditions and shot plan, it's not static like suggested. Also, just because someone said it, doesn't make it factual or real. By the way, maybe you'd better inform all the tour players that use 3-5wd, hybrids and putters from off the apron. Have a good day.

[Titleist99]

What I've learned while watching Shell's WWOG:

Jack Nicklaus was still a pretty good golfer at 62. During Jack's 2001 match with Ben Crenshaw Jack was using a big head metal driver back then

and boasting on his new-found distance. Jack was not talking about rolling back distance then...LOL~

Mind you they were in the desert with warm temperatures, but they were hitting six irons 175-180, some drives 285, 9 iron 145, 220 – 3 iron. Not bad for a couple of elder statesmen.

 

Strictly my opinion and not to be misconstrued as anything else...

[Titleist99]

Nothing is stated as a matter of fact...if you bothered to read any of the other post you would know that it was said that if something works for you, continue doing it. That should go without saying. I am not giving out unsolicited advice, just stating my opinion...which is the purpose of this site.....IMO IMO

[Titleist99]

Then you disagree that most PGATOUR players use a sand or lob wedge primarily around the greens? We're not talking which method is best...that is very subjective

[Pepperturbo]

"YES," and it's NOT club theory or something I saw on TV or read in an advertising-based golf rag. 

If all you want is a YES/NO reply, you should have created a "POLL" thread that dictates YES/NO or AGREE/DISAGREE.  Your statement or source draws an inaccurate conclusion; therefore, not the most helpful advice. When I say yes or no, I support my claim with experience or reason.  Have a good weekend.

[Titleist99]

Wow.....not the thought provoking response that  I expected......Lashing out at me wont advance your position …..

[Pepperturbo]

How old are you????? That wasn't lashing out... simply a response to what YOU said.

[Titleist99]

Thanks for both your responses......

[tannyhoban]

I was on stay at home vacation last couple weeks of the year. Looking back I feel like all I did was eat Christmas baked goods and watch the Sam Snead challenge and Shell episodes. It was a GREAT vacation.

Loved watching Chi Chi mash, ha. Justin who? Lol.

Even enjoyed the Devo segment with Chi Chi.

 

[Titleist99]

LOL!...…….Chi-Chi was bombing  them out there 300 yards......at 120 pounds soaking wet.

[BIG STU]

Exactly Pepper you nailed it-- I use what I think the lie and shot dictates---- I know for a fact this thread has went to hell in a hand basket quick---- And as you know I have stated many times " there is no etched in stone one proper way to play this game"

[Oliver Klozoff]

I'm always reminded that it's impossible to compare players in different eras in pretty much all sports. All you can look at is how many championships they won versus competition on equal footing.

Watching Gene Littler at Pine Valley on Shell is one of the worst rounds I've ever seen a pro play. Topped shots. Chips that didn't move. I can't imagine he broke 85. I'm surprised it never switched to match play after that because LIttler took like a quintuple bogey on #5 and the match was over. Boring TV from then on.

[Obee]

Look, I like Chi Chi as much as anybody, but he was NOT a long hitter. He was long enough. He was long for his size ("longest pound for pound on tour" and all that). But he was not a long hitter compared to his peers. In 1980, he was 45 years old. Toward the end of his career, sure, but he was 98th (at 255.6 yards) on the tour in driving distance on the first year of the driving distance (two measured holes) stat: https://www.pgatour.com/content/pgatour/stats/stat.101.y1980.html

Chi Chi was 72nd when he was 46 and then 155th when he was 47.

For contrast's sake, Kenny Perry was 9th in driving distance when he was 45; Vijay Singh was 25th; Mickelson was 20th; Nicklaus was 47th; Fred Couples 35th. Those guys were all very long when they were in their 20's and 30's and that length held into their 40's, with Nicklaus being the one who saw the biggest drop-off, most likely due to his significant back problems.

If Chi Chi was actually long, he would have still been "quite long" (compared to his peers) at 45. He was not. He was dead center average. Which means that when he was in his absolute prime, he was probably above average length off the tee, compared to his peers.

There could be other factors at play (Chi Chi's physical decline from his 30's to his 40's was much greater than everyone else's?), but I doubt it. Would be happy to be proved wrong, actually, as I really do love Chi Chi. He, Snead, and Rickie have the three greatest "squat moves" ever.

[ColinKelvin]

It's fantastic that so many of these are on Youtube now. I just watched Littler v Nelson from Pine Valley, 1962. Wonderful stuff.

Would love to see Sorenstam v Pepper at Kiawah Island. Hopefully it'll pop up on Youtube someday.