What I've learned while watching Shell's Wonderfull World of golf....

[gvogel]

Chi Chi impressed me as well. I saw him live in 1972.

The other player who doesn't get enough recognition is Billy Casper. A stud.

[Edward_Majorwin]

That was definitely a treat watching the old footage yesterday. Sure they were probably a few functioning alcoholics in the crowds but darn it did they sure knew how to behave back in the day, and looked good doing it too.

[Titleist99]

Shell's Wonderful World Of Golf gives us a small glimpse of pro tournament play 40-50+ years ago. The Tapes seem to have been cleaned up with modern technique, which makes them more enjoyable....at least that's what it looks like to me...

I know that its match play or medal play but you get an idea of course conditions of the time, etc...

[the bishop]

Billy Casper to me is one of the most underappreciated great players of all time. His career parallels very well with Phil Mickelson's:

Casper - 51 PGA Tour wins, 3 majors

Phil - 44 PGA Tour wins, 5 majors

Both from the San Diego area.

Both compiled their records while competing against goliaths. Casper against the 3 headed monster of Nicklaus, Palmer, and Player. Phil in the Tiger era.

Both are world class trash talkers, like this gem from the '66 U.S Open, "The most famous win of his storied career came in 1966 at the Olympic Club in San Francisco, where he defeated Arnold Palmer in an 18-hole playoff to win his second U.S. Open title. In the fourth round, Palmer, paired with Casper, had a seven-shot lead with nine holes to play. But Palmer faltered and Casper was steady and at the end of regulation they were tied. On the 18th hole, Palmer asked Casper if he wanted him to mark or putt the short putt he needed to secure a tie. Casper said, “Go ahead, Arnold, you’re hot.” Imagine someone saying something like that to Tiger in a similar situation. https://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/billy-casper-most-underrated-hall-fame-golfer-them-all-dies-83

[Irishman1979]

It was actually better.

The new era sucks compared to the 80's and 90's. When I watch Shell's Wonderful world of Golf I love the commentating much more and the players are more enjoyable to watch. Its not about lets bomb this fucking drive 350 yards and hit a sand wedge into the green. There was much more creativity back then and they played better golf courses which didn't require you to carry the ball 280 yards in the air to reach the fairway or stay out of a hazard. Golf has become so Mickey Mouse at the pro level compared to 20 years ago.

[Pepperturbo]

De-lofting an iron has never been rocket science. Choice in club around the green then and today is more about how far the ball needs to run out and how influential the grain and undulations are. What you say is true except due to grainy slow greens "most" of the guys used PW - 7i for short chips and pitches around the greens, and balls had to be whacked with putter. Fairways were hard and fast too. Back in the late 50s to mid 60s an uncle played on the PGA tour.

 

[Titleist99]

Agreed...…… I said the same thing regarding Casper.

[paulj826]

Seems like in this old videos it was very hard for those guys to make putts because the greens were so bad. Otherwise those guys still hit it long and straight for there time.

[Pepperturbo]

Yep - BC was quite the golfer, man and father. Every day he had to cope with a serious ADD medical condition that made him appear unfriendly to gallery patrons wanting his attention. He never wanted to talk to anyone while inside the ropes because it would distract him too much. His wonderful wife did all she could to help maintain his image. Later after his passing in an interview she divulged his conditions and frustrations.

[Titleist99]

Oh, I totally agree with you. Due to the agronomy of today's courses (firm and fast) a sand wedge might give you a little more consistency. On some of those putts, the player had to make a full back swing to get it to the hole.....LOL!

At the pro level, if you can save a shot or two per round....that's huge.

[Obee]

I've learned (actually already knew this) that the greens were 7.5 to 9. Max. LOL

Totally different game in some ways -- exactly the same in others.

[smashdn]

I haven't watched what is being presented on GC as I don't have GC but I do find myself quite often watching SWWOG on youtube. I have confined my viewing mostly to Nicklaus and prior pros, Hogan, Geiberger, Snead, etc. Have not watched Faldo, Nick Price, etc.

 

My takeaways are this:

1) What you guys have already said about the greens. They were long and slow and actually required the player to make a true stroke or strike on the ball, not just get it moving on a line. You had to hit the ball. I don't know that one way is better than the other but they present different challenges. I would never argue that one way was harder than the other, just challenging in different ways.

2) It seems to me that on those particular courses the pros were hitting almost a full bag of clubs throughout the rounds, not just driver and 7 iron on down into greens. They hit four and five woods into par fours. What would be by today's standards modest length par fours ~450 yards at that. I think that is partly due to those guys hitting bad drives pretty regularly. I was surprised at the skies and tops that were hit. 220 yard worm burner or pop up leaves a fair bit of meat left on the bone for your approach.

3) When is the last time there was a true exhibition match? "The Match" but that sucked. Anybody remember the mixed match that I think was Tiger, Anika, Nancy Lopez? and Daly?

4) The called the Devil's Arsehole at PV the Devil's Hole. They polished that up for TV I guess.

[Hawkeye77]

There was one with Duval and Webb against Tiger and Annika. Of course, the Bighorn battles and some other stuff I'd forgotten about. Pretty much all died out because of lack of interest.

[smashdn]

That might have been it.

 

I blame it on short attention spans and the collective society's inability to focus on a subject for longer than 140 characters (or whatever twigger allows these days.)

 

Signed,

Crotchety old (34 doesn't seem old) guy who can watch a whole baseball game

[Titleist99]

Those drivers were tiny compared to today's gargantuas.....the driving was sporadic IMO. I didn't see a lot of long irons

when the players hit the fairway, one or two clubs more than todays players but that was due to jacked up iron loft. Todays Pros

use less loft on their drivers than the pros of yester years. Most pros IMO use 8-9 degree loft with light graphite shafts for better swing speed.

[bladehunter]

Lol. Agree. Only place that exists is here in the instruction forums. Not talking about the good instructors there either. Talking about the “ P6 P12 “ guys. Hilarious to see them troll good players with swing change tips. As if there’s some golden blue print to go by.

[sdandrea]

You saw one bad shot by a pro and claim it's the club selection? I can guarantee you that Arnie probably got up and down using that technique more often than not. Probably chipped in his share too.

[Titleist99]

Pump the brakes my friend.....just pointing out why modern players primarily use the sand wedge around the greens, more consistency.

Nothing against the beloved Arnie....that's just what they did at the time. To be one of the all-time greats, I'm sure he got his share

up and down...

[dan360]

In 18 holes you had 18 greens that were all different. Some slow some fast. Some tight some shaggy.

 

Rub of the green.

 

The inconsistency was part of the challenge.

[tacklingdummy]

What I learned was Fred Couples was rocking the left hand low grip in 1997 when he played Tom Watson. Also, those guys were hitting it respectable distances for today's standards. On a par 3 176 yards, Fred hit a smooth 8 iron and Watson hit a 7 iron to the back. The lofts were likely weaker as well. The Shell's Wonderful World of Golf is a great series. Great matches and highlighted golf courses around the world. They need to bring it back.

[smashdn]

Watch Gieberger and Knudson in Canada and Casper and Bradshaw at Portmarnock.

 

Seve and Jack were hitting it deep at the Toyota Challenge of Champions at Dublin GC.

[mocokid]

1962: PV was one hell of a test of golf. Littler, the year earlier US Open champ did not break 80, and Byron Nelson, a once a year golfer, was still one hell of a ballstriker.

[RichieHunt]

Lob wedges weren't around much back then. Typically you used a 56 degree as your highest lofted club. Also, many of the SW's were specifically designed for bunker play with these very thick soles. When the Cleveland 588 60* wedge came out, it was a real game changer.

 

Bermuda grass was different back then. Very thick and grainy. Now the bermuda grasses like Championship Bermuda roll as good as any bentgrass. TifEagle rolls excellently, but really should be cut too short. Still, they can cut it to about 11 and then roll them and make for ultra smooth greens that are still soft enough to hold a 3-wood.

 

The counter to this was the balata ball which spun like a top. However, it would go out of round quickly and that likely affected putting. The standard back then was for a Tour player to use it for 3-4 holes and then switch to a new ball. I can now play a Pro V1x for 36 holes and be just fine.

 

Graphite shafts are wolds better now as well. Old graphite was so whippy that it would often break if a golfer was teeing up a shot and pressing down too much on the club. That's why so many players swore off graphite for years and why graphite still gets the bad rep of 'increasing distance, but losing accuracy and precision.' It's not true these days with the modern composite shafts, but the old graphite had such a bad reputation.

 

A couple of years ago I was watching Snead play on a TV show where he competed against celebrities. This had to be back in the 50's and IIRC, Snead was around 46 years old at the time. I was extremely impressed with his iron play. He would hit 5-irons to 20-feet and in like it was simple. His short game around the green was excellent as well and his putting was pretty solid. I came to thinking that Snead really wasn't a bad putter, he just had angst over so many close misses on all of those short birdie putts due to phenomenal iron play. However, I was not impressed with his driving. He could hit it a mile for back then, but he was all over the lot. I'm guessing that he was trying to show off for the camera and hit big drives, but he hit a lot of snap hooks as well.

 

 

 

 

RH

[Hawkeye77]

After totally misrepresenting what was being shown with Player and Geiberger, etc., and making dumb comments about stuff that never happened on the show, maybe just quit while you are behind?

 

You still have no clue what you are talking about and other than what you completely fabricated, took nothing away from watching the show or shows that suggests you really understand anything about how the game was played then, let alone now.

[Titleist99]

Didn't see logos plastered all over the players...….LOL!

[Titleist99]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz……..

[bladehunter]

I’m twice as entertained watching shells wwog vs listening to Rolf and fozzy at Kapalua. That’s 100% for sure.

[Hawkeye77]

I like Rolfing but as much as I love the views it was a little underwhelming yesterday. Course looks great, though. Maybe just a President’s Cup hangover. Hoping the drama builds a bit by Sunday.

May have to pull out the dvd of Shell Nicklaus and Snead at Pebble.

[MadGolfer76]

Lots of pop strokes on the greens. Hooray for modern green conditions.

[mitts7]

I caught some of it and really enjoyed watching these old matches. A couple things that made me laugh:

Caddies standing on the green with the bag sitting on the green in front of them. I guess the way the greens were back then, it didn’t really make a difference. Not sure it would truly make a difference today either, but would be funny to see a modern day caddie do it.I can’t remember who the player was, but in a post match interview he basically just said he got “luckier” on the greens. Sounded like the players just chalked up some luck to putting and that was just part of the game back then.I am 33 so didn’t really grow up getting to see these Shell matches, just what I have caught on golf channel over the years. As others have mentioned, always love the style of the players and gallery as well ?. Always interesting to see how norms change in society....good or bad