What I've learned while watching Shell's Wonderfull World of golf....

[Titleist99]

Totally enjoy watching the Shell's WWOG footage.. everybody see different things based on their own experiences. No one is saying which era is better, just different. If this generation did not learn from the previous, something is wrong....

[lowheel]

yeah these werent invented yet... way harder to putt back then.

 

[lowheel]

there wasnt exotic bounces available on wedges back then. highest lofts were 54-56*. because of the prominent grain pitching with wedges was almost impossible from those distances. the best chippers and pitchers from that time (player trevino) used 6 7-8-9 irons all the time from those distances. You should watch the one club challenge videos of trevino and seve from back in the day. they were playing delicate bunker shots with 7 irons. Different game.if todays pros traveled back in time and were forced to play in those conditions with that equipment theyd play it along the ground as it was the most consistent way to play it. it was just a different game. many grew up playing this way and watched the lob wedge and agronomy change the game.

[BIG STU]

If you are crotchety at age 34 means you have been hanging out with us old guys on WRX too long---- But from reading your posts it does my heart good to see a 34 year old think and appreciate like you do

[BIG STU]

Great post as usual from you Richie--- If You don't mind I will add a little to it

Sand wedges as far as I know the Hogan company had the first 60*. Most of us in classic circles refer to Tom Kite as "the Father of the 60*". Roger Cleveland basically copied the famed 1958 Wilson Staff Sand wedge when he built the 588s. The 588 60* was basically the same design with the loft and less bounce than the early Hogan K Grind 60s. Sand traps were another animal depending on where you grew up. In the Piedmont area of NC it was mostly masonry sand which had thick grains and a clay like texture. Those old Hogan Sure Out sand wedges were the trick then big flanged with a lot of bonce and a lot of weight. But that was all they were good for. Around the coast of NC and SC they basically used river sand which is finer. I think now on the PGA Tour they use a "spec sand" which gives consistency over a variety of courses.

On the early graphite you are dead on it--- In those days I could darn near rope hook anything much less the whippy early graphite shaft. When they came out with the metal King Cobra drivers with graphite I tried one. The combination of the hot metal head and graphite shaft I could hit a rope hook that went like the Energizer Bunny. When I did go to the metal head I went with a X-100 steel shaft. LOL now days I can't break an egg

[BIG STU]

Very well summed up for that era. And what some do not know about the equipment of that era that 9 iron you mentioned was around 48* and if a PW came with a set it was around 51/52* stock. A lot of sets in the 50s did not come with a PW per say. Most of the better players of that day put together their own wedge arsenal. Usually a 58 Wilson Staff SW and a thick flanged SW such as a Hogan Sure out. Those guys could really manipulate the old 8 and 9 irons around the green. Another popular wedge of the 50s 60s was the Spalding Dynamiter. Like you said wedge design and agronomy changed the game

[Hawkeye77]

Including grooves, lol! Still remember the U.S. Open Watson let get away and how much the announcers were talking on the broadcast about how much spin Scott Simpson was getting out of the rough in particular with his Pings.

 

Stu and others - thanks for the perspective! A lot of good information in a few really great posts.

 

If you actually pay attention to the old shows and watch the players, conditions, etc. there really is a lot that can be learned. Hoisting a few and taking a nap then putting down old time players and making up bad shots they never hit on the show does a disservice to those players and the game.

 

Anybody short of a world class player that believes they could have just grabbed their sand wedge (which the person really means lob wedge, but doesn't understand even that) and gone out and hit better shots than Gary Player or Peter Thomson or Peter Alliss or Chi Chi is delusional (and trolling, but that's par for the course).

[Titleist99]

This is what the modern day touring pro knows:

Play Your Best May 17, 2016

Learn To Pitch With Your Sand Wedge

 

Develop that tour-pro touch around the greens

If you want to be a better player, copy what better players do. When tour pros need to hit a green side shot that stops quickly, they almost always grab a club with a lot of loft. They make the ball stop by hitting it high more than trying to spin it.

 

You might be nervous about the idea of using your sand wedge outside the bunkers, but it's easier than you probably think. The sand wedge is the heaviest club in your bag, so it can power through thick lies. Provided you get the heavy flange on the back of the club involved from the start, it'll glide through the grass instead of getting stuck.

 

You need to do two things to get comfortable using a more-lofted club. First, be willing to open the face at least a little at address. This brings the club's flange into play, setting up that gliding action through impact. You don't want the leading edge to dig.

This is what Phil and Tiger do. Now who are you going to believe them or these hack that can't break 80!?! If you want to  get better  this.....

[Titleist99]

This is my thread.....Who's Trolling who.? Stop following me around!!!!

[Man_O_War]

 

 

what are you replying to mate? without context i am a little worried about you

[Titleist99]

Just pointing out the difference in eras.....No one said one way was better than others. You have others that's making more out of the comment as  usual...…..

 

[Titleist99]

Don't let it worry you.....you have posters that follow every word that I post. There're nothing but cowards and bullies......The message was for them.

[Hawkeye77]

As noted when you put this in another thread, Lloyd Mangrum wrote about and demonstrated using the bounce without calling it that 67 years ago. Nothing “modern” in the sense that you are talking about. They all knew how to hit a wedge.

[Hawkeye77]

You said you could do as well with your sand wedge as top touring pros from days gone by around the greens and yes, you said modern pros were better.

WTH, LOL.

[Titleist99]

Never said that...…..I said that it was a different era and the modern pro primarily uses his sand wedge around the greens. You made up the rest because you can't understand what you read.

Now please give me the post # where I said that I could do as well as touring pros of days gone by...………...I'LL wait.

[Pepperturbo]

I've played the Kapalua Plantation course too many times to recount. Been vacationing there for thirty years. I missed it on our last trip due to the Plantation being closed for completely new greens, fairway turf and a paint job. Compared to many of the greens that I play stateside, Plantation greens are stemp slow, much like the greens on the Presidents Cup RM.. Stemp aside, if you ask local Maui Pro's they'll say prepare for 4-5 putts, which is true.

Unlike courses in south Maui, the large greens at the Plantation have a lot of undulation plus most are fully exposed to trade-winds which we saw yesterday. Historically, they hold to a well struck shot but depends on pin placement. Putting or chipping in the wrong direction you'll think they are super fast, the other way, into the grain, snail slow, hence 4-5 putts and run-off. The last few days of rain at Kapalua have them really slow, even downhill a ball may stop on the slope, which we saw on 17 & 18. I think it's #5 Par 5, hitting into that green, you had to land the ball just short of or on the edge the green front for it to stop in the middle because it "was" down grain. Due to new turf and rain they are so slow you can in some instances, almost go at the pin. It could be said, Plantation and RM play much smoother but similar to the greens we see in SWWOG series.

[Hawkeye77]

Well, that took about 20 seconds.

Here is you:

"Well, if you must know.....what I see while watching Shell's WWOG is players using eight irons and wedges. six irons off the green ii.e. Al Geiberger,

Peter Allis and others. I see a lot of shots running fifteen feet by and a lot of chips ten feet short which is exactly what I get when chipping and putting

with an array of golf clubs other than a sand wedge."

 

You said you'd do just as well with other clubs, and clearly suggested you'd do better with your sand wedge.

 

Of course, they weren't using 6 and 8 irons, weren't running shots fifteen feet by or leaving them ten feet short. They were using wedges and leaving them within a foot or two and almost holing them. I think we've been over your inability to watch TV and accurately report what happened, but you did it in furtherance of the false argument that modern pros are better because they use the magic sand wedge.

[Hawkeye77]

LOL, from the fist post: "I understand why today's players mainly chip with the sand wedge. The other clubs that the guys used on the show lacked control."

The suggestion, assuming you were accurately representing the shots from the show (which you were not) was the the older pros couldn't hit a short game shot within 10 feet because they weren't using a sand wedge - later you picked on a shot Palmer hit you claimed the modern guys would hit better with a sand wedge. Again, not representing most of the shots the way they really happened, not understanding wedges of various kinds have been around forever, not understanding greens/course conditions/etc.

Again, we've been over it and over it. But you want to direct an obscenity at one poster, call others names because it's "your thread".

Maybe read some of the generous posts in this thread pointing up the differences and similarities of golf than vs. now - and you'd learn something watching WWOG.

 

 

[Titleist99]

So, in other words you can't produce a thread post where I said that I could do better than pros of days gone by. In your zest and zeal to

destroy anything that I say on this golf site you totally misrepresent what I say time and time again. What I actually said is that I

was using the array of golf club method around the greens and found it inconsistent. You made up the rest based on your own reading abilities. Now I

think that I deserve an apology.....but where will I go to get my reputation back?

On a side note Arnie is my favorite golfer of all time......I was just pointing out the inconsistency of the greens back  in the day,,,,,now they like them firm and fast...

[caniac6]

I've learned that there is more than one way to chip, and it is pointless to argue about it.

[ChillyDipper]

Is it just me or is the trolling on this site becoming more and more commonplace? Also, the tone and language of one writer seems common across many (banned and yet to be banned) usernames.

[Titleist99]

Yes, I agree.....thanks for adding nothing to the conversation...…..you should be banned.

[caniac6]

Would someone please tell me how to ignore someone? I don't have enough room in my head for this garbage.

[Titleist99]

Sure, let me see if I can Help......

You start your own threads for starters.

Stay out of that posters post, because there is no rule that says you must respond.

It's just that simple.....quit following your tormentor around.

 

Now the rest is up to you...

Hope this helped!

[Titleist99]

LOL!..... Love your term "magic sand wedge" which I never said...LOL!

Will you at least grant me the fact that touring pros of today mainly use their sand wedge or 64 degree lob wedges around the greens....

[wobgon]

How many times do you want Hawkeye to put you in your place.........Getting to the point where you are doing nothing but embarrassing yourself.....The man has your number.....Just except it and go start another thread.

[Hawkeye77]

LOL, no doubt another thread will be started!

 

@Titleist99 maybe just start a thread about something you have some genuine interest about without all the drama? I'm sure you'd probably enjoy it more than starting out with all confrontation and/or "bold" statements most of the time.

[Titleist99]

How many times are you going to engage in matters that don't concern you .......Now go away!

[sdandrea]

Best post in the entire thread.

[lowheel]