USGA DISTANCE INSIGHT

[clevited]

[jvincent]

Adding on to the IVF numbers, here are the launch conditions from the total distance test.

Launch Condition Mean Acceptable Range

Angle 10° +0.5°

Spin 42 rps + 2.0 rps

Swing Speed 120 mph +0.5 mph

Ball Speed 256 fps

 

Note that this is done with the USGA standard 360CC driver.

 

[clevited]

I am not sure what you posted this for, can you explain?

[jvincent]

True, but they can limit absolute ball speed.

I followed up with a post that shows their launch parameters are also outdated for today's game.

[clevited]

I would ask you then, why would you do that? That isn't fair to the person with the ability to hit it harder than everyone else. It is an athletic advantage to be capable of doing such a thing and is part of the game that many that watch and play are amazed by. It seems almost super human to many of us.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

Dig a hole in the ground in the morning, refill it in the afternoon. Accomplishment.

[jvincent]

I'm not saying I would do it, but I'm predicting the USGA/R&A will.

Why? Because they can.

As I like to explain to my kids sometimes, rules are completely arbitrary. If the governing bodies choose to make a completely arbitrary rule about distance, they are more than able to do so. Just like all the other rules are arbitrary.

[clevited]

I get you now. I have attempted to play this chess game out in my head a million times now and I just don't see them having enough leverage to do anything significant. I predict if they do something drastic, they will have huge backlash and lawsuits from manufacturers etc. If they do something minor they will get a pat on the back initially from their architect and course owner constituents but mostly they will just get lambasted by the golfing community at large. They have to justify their existence somehow and they are doing so by doing these reports and feigning serious action.

 

Edit: Ultimately, I think they will decide to do either nothing, or something extremely minor as far as equipment is concerned. My hope is that they address their "issue" with course set up first and find out that it solves the problem for them.

[smashdn]

 

I think his holding on to older tech longer may have done the opposite of what you are saying. Did he not hang onto a shorter steel shaft for a while longer than most in his driver? Far as I know he has always had blade irons, no hybrid and for most of his career used a blade style SC putter. Tiger's equipment is pretty bland and unforgiving in comparison to some's.

 

I kind of already do. I picked up persimmon woods and old blades a few years back just for grins and giggles and it has fostered loads of both. The biggest difference I see with old clubs versus new is the ability to hit the ball high with the woods. You can hit them the same total distance but carry and roll-out are much different in my experience. You can't really go over trees, you have to play lower and work around them.

[QuigleyDU]

But you did that for personal enjoyment. Not because of some mandate. And you went with old equipment not new.

[Krt22]

And in doing so slowly kill the sport further. Golf is an individual sports, where exceptionalism is not only praised but essential to win. Any equipment change that disproportionately punishes exceptionalism will be the beginning of the end

[jvincent]

My guess is that the new limits will cap that ball at pretty much today's distances so I don't see it killing anything off.

Where they really dropped the ball is when they set updated the ball distance tests in 2011. They set the ball speed limits too close to what the players were reaching back then and didn't account for increases in technology and player conditioning.

I'm assuming that when the test is updated you'll still see 350+ tee shots (total) but they will absolutely reign it in at the top end of the swing speed chart.

[Krt22]

You see that is where you are wrong, player conditioning has zero impact on club head speed, at least I read that on here a few times

[jvincent]

Call it player training/optimization then.

The point is that there are a lot of guys capable of swinging faster, and with better launch conditions, than in the "Total Distance Test" that the USGA uses. No surprise that people are hitting it further than they want.

[bladehunter]

he finally took the bait one too many times. Someone set the hook on him . ( trolling joke for those without a humor meter ). But to be clear. The ones setting the hook are the ones doing the trolling.

[bladehunter]

Dude. Keep thinking. You’re getting closer to agreeing with ME all the time. Lol.

[Krt22]

I would say if they make a change that impacts the top 20% of hitters, they should make the top 20% putters start putting left handed. Fair is fair.

[clevited]

Lol, no. I haven't moved towards you on my position at all. I think the golf ball is as fair to everyone as it needs to be (the efficiency fall off for longer hitters is low but there), and the advantage of the long hitter is there in plenty of abundance on most golf courses.

[puttingmatt]

Literally, see it as a boom for golf club OEM's, again.

And as stated earlier, stop with the long roll outs

on tbe fairways, course set up offers more solutions,

and is rarely considered, and you do not need to make holes

longer, You solve nothing by getting longer, and increasing

the landing area diameters. Plant some trees, bunkering,

Water features,

[bladehunter]

Serious question.. do you play any older courses? if so what length and are they and are they lined with old growth trees? I see it so often that longer hitters are handcuffed off the TEe and see almost no advantage whatsoever . You have to go to a modern wide open ballpark to be able to swing away

[QuigleyDU]

This is a great example of how you can control distance with options outside of equipment restrictions. Don't you think?

[clevited]

I have a 27 hole, 7200 yard course I play and a 6500 yard course I play. The longer one is more open meaning no trees but there is plenty of water and marshland. The shorter one is heavily tree lined. I enjoy both equally. Yes I will often tee off with less than driver on the shorter course but I still enjoy it. There are par 5s where my length is much more useful and I can take advantage of that when swinging well (remember I am not a low handicap, I am a mid). I also carry a few of the par 4s but they are tight and if you screw up you are liable to be in huge trouble. I can also take a higher lofted club on the par 3s when they are baked and actually hold the green while others can't. I enjoy lots of perks being a longer hitting.

[15th Club]

What will it take, to smash this notion and eliminate comments like this from the distance debate as we go forward?

No one in golf administration is trying to prevent long hitters from winning competitions. Absolutely nothing in this debate is about trying to influence any competitive advantage or disadvantage. No one is trying to "stop DJ/Bubba/Rory/Cameron/ETC."

The only serious questions are about the quality of play on existing, classic era championship golf courses, and all of the related questions about architecture, course building, maintenance and above all, the character of what sorts of challenges they pose to player, and what sorts of shotmaking is required of them.

I think that I have repeated this point, usually several times, in every single distance debate. And yet it keeps bouncing back.

[15th Club]

This is the other weird myth in all of this. That the way to control distance is to trick up golf courses. Heavily water everything. Plant trees to punish wayward shots and narrow the lines of play. Speed up greens. Push tees back. Grow a punitive rough.

That is all wrong. These are all architectural abominations. And on this one, I don't much care what anybody else here thinks, because what I do know for sure is what Mike Davis thinks, and what others like him think, and that is what will matter, from the standpoint of aesthetics.

 

[golfer07840]

This parade of bullshit on Golf Central that the USGA and R&A are blowing upnoir asses about this "distance" problem is a tremendous amount. 

There is no problem. If there is, its with the top .0001% of players. This nonsense of how courses have had to expand and its causing Amateurs to play from further tees is complete and utter nonsense.

 

[Wesquire]

How are trees and not having 40 yards of roll bad?

[L29]

I notice no one really responds or has more to say about course setup as the cure. Could that mean it actually is the answer, but it’s boring to discuss?

Distance is a skill and should be rewarded on several holes of a track. Course setup could also easily be made to reward the most accurate on several other holes of said track. This could obviously be done in a myriad of fashions and would not cost an arm and a leg.

Leave equipment standards where they stand right now and put some dam cabbage in between 300-350 yds out on a few holes. Done.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

What is the "Classic Era"? Which courses from that era that are able to host a modern tournament are currently unable to do so because they are too short? We need to know about these Classic Era courses that are oppressed and hurting because of this darned equipment.

Thanks in advance!

[15th Club]

What changed in 2000/2001 was not that solid core balls became available; they had been available and were quite popular with recreational players since the seventies.

No; what changed was the urethane cover, and multilayer construction that put "distance" balls into the hands of elite players for the first time.

And today, with several evolutions of multilayer urethane balls out, they are still NOT used by the majority of recreational players. Simple matter of cost, for recreational players whose games don't even demand such balls.

[Sean2]

I don't disagree with everything in the report. I find bomb and gouge golf boring...no finesse, no shotmaking, no course management. Golf is turning into a distance game and mores the pity as I find the finesse and shotmaking quite compelling. I find -24 boring. Not every course has to be set up like a US Open, but a smart set-up will make the distance issue a non-issue.