USGA DISTANCE INSIGHT

[jmck]

Distance has never been more rewarded than it is now, and distance has never been as strong of an indicator of winning as it is now. I just picked a year at random, 1990, and this is the driving distance rank of the winners that year:

45, 35, 87, 10, 83, 3, 13, 4, 43, 35, 154, 29, 18, 143, 29, 4, 139, 130, 45, 130, 164, 164, 130, 146, 187, 125, 117, 182, 8, 163, 52, 49, 130, 87, 115, 83, 97, 66, 43.

That's an average of 84th on tour, with a fairly even distribution of winners from long hitters to short knockers. You certainly don't see the top 25-35 guys in length hoovering up a majority of the wins like you do in RareSight's post above.

I don't have time or inclination to graph it out, but I'm sure if you did you'd see a much stronger correlation between distance and winning beginning around 2000 when the wound ball era ended, along with the average winner's distance getting closer to the top of the tour.

Again, modern equipment has removed skill from the game and encouraged a uniform style of play, bomb and gouge.

Personally I think that should be addressed and personally I think the ball is by far the easiest thing to change to address it.

[gvogel]

There is no need to go back to balata or persimmon.

How about shrinking a modern driver and taking the COR (or comparable CT) to .75. How about reducing the initial velocity specification for the ball.

[davep043]

I think I agree with you, my opinion is that this is a "problem" only at the very highest levels of golf. I think its largely a problem because of the optics, because the increases in distance for the top players have decreased the value of some skills. But clearly, the ability to hit it long is also a skill, the Ruling Bodies are making a value judgement concerning which skills should be rewarded.

I don't have a problem with choosing to minimize future increases in distance for golfers in general. I really don't mind if they try to roll-back distance for those at the top levels, but I don't see that as a realistic possibility.

[QuigleyDU]

Yeah that is pretty much how I see it. The USGA is reacting to such a small percentage of golfers that those golfers statistically do not exist. Even by their report the distance over the last year has decreased. So they just need to ride it out for a while and see.

 

In the end. I am not leaving golf over whatever the decision is. I will just be disappointed. As will a large number of other golfers that will no longer pay to keep a GHIN or support the USGA. They need to think about that.

[mahonie]

I learned to play in the early 1980s with balata and ‘poorly’ designed blades and I can tell you the game was so much more fun to play then than it is with modern equipment. The challenge of getting the ball where you wanted by controlling the trajectory and shape was the very essence of the game. The sense of satisfaction of hitting a low 20 yard fade into a right-to-left headwind to hold a green cannot be matched with modern equipment.

That has been lost in the quest for ‘straight distance.’ I think the USGA and R&A have finally realised that the modern game has become boring to watch and doesn’t capture the imagination of future generations of golfers like it did before the advent of the Pro V1. The game has evolved into a pale imitation of what it was and is now pandering to the less skilled who are ‘playing at golf, not actual golf’ in order to provide profits for the OEMs.

Distance is easier to sell and that is the hamster wheel the game has got onto...it’s time to jump off and get the proper game back.

[15th Club]

The Old Course is not an elite private club.

One of the (many) bothersome things in these discussions is the idea that we are talking ONLY about the PGA Tour.

No; we are talking about all of elite golf. Men’s collegiate golf; state ams; USGA men’s qualifiers. On lots and lots of courses that have no way to expand to 7200 or 7400 or 7600 yards.

[clevited]

Not sure how you can't still experience that. If you are able to do that it is a weapon when you need it and is still useful on the tour or at the amateur level imo. I love practicing shaping shots. It pleases me and I attempt them on the course often. I think tour players today are just playing the statistics more than before, otherwise Tiger and Bubba would win all the time with their shot shaping prowess. It is just more risky to do, but it isn't like elite players today can't do that.

[QuigleyDU]

One course is not proof. Also we are still talking about a statistical non existent percentage of golfers. And we can be honest this is 100% driven by what is being seen on tour.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

That's why I don't value what Nicklaus and Player have to say on the issue.

[15th Club]

Let’s please dispense with any notions of “going back” to products whose time has come and gone.

Cut-prone balata. Bye.

Fragile, inconsistent persimmon. Buh-bye.

Hickory shafts. Wut? Bye.

What I like in golf equipment are things that make the game more affordable; that are simple, and make club building easier for an average hobbyist. Things that emphasize and magnify golfing skill on the course.

 

[ThinkingPlus]

Yes I understand that both the clubs and balls can be nerfed without resorting to the old crappy designs. That is the nuclear option. Everybody loses.

[DFS PFD]

What percentage of all male golfers play Elite men's golf? Enough to justify this discussion? I'm going to wager the "need" of few is outweighed by the many.

[QuigleyDU]

I agree with you here. Its tired to keep throwing out those things.

[ThinkingPlus]

Funny, I still do (try) all those things you describe today with current equipment. Where I play and the conditions require moving the ball around to score well. A high, straight ball is frequently not the best choice. Rollback the equipment and golf just gets harder, not better.

[QuigleyDU]

Well maybe this Premier League will have its own rules. Maybe this will drive its creation even more... Something to think about.

[QuigleyDU]

Also, Phil does not like it.

https://www.golfchannel.com/news/phil-mickelson-athletes-not-given-enough-credit-new-distance-insights-project-report

[mahonie]

I can and do shape shots...on my home course you have to. It is so much harder to move the modern ball laterally...it just wants to fly straight.

My bigger issue is that the kids of today focus so much on hitting it straight and long as it is sold to them. Put them on a course where there are doglegs and you need shape and trajectory to score and they are totally lost and the game is too hard for them. Thing is, particularly in the UK, courses are short and tight and you do need to shape it to score. If you can’t shape it suddenly golf is really hard, in fact too hard and kids give up. They will never be anywhere near good enough, they can’t even try and emulate the Tour pros so they leave the game.

It might be different in the US with more space and big, wide courses but in the UK at least, the game is dying a slow death.

[mahonie]

I find it impossible to hit a low 20 yard fade with modern equipment...it just wants to go straight!! I don’t even slice a driver these days which many may say is the object of the game. However, I know it is not down to my skill that my drives don’t slice, it’s 100% because of the equipment. My drives are 60 yards longer (and also straighter) compared to my game 30 years ago because I can swing flat out confident in the knowledge that my ball will not be 3 fairways offline.

Keeping everything else the same, just make the ball spin a bit more laterally and the fun and skill returns.

[clevited]

Sounds like a problem with the kids, not the sport imo.

Edit: And it sounds like shaping the ball is even more of a skill than before since it is so hard to do right? I haven't seen too many tour pro's that can't shape the ball both ways, I just have observed that most of the time they strategize in such a way so that they don't have to. Imo, they are trying to take apart the course in a way that promotes the most success. I call it inevitable, people like water, always follow the path of least resistance in sports. They find the best ways/exploits to score well and give them the best chance to win.

I just think today's players have different skills, not less skill.

[mahonie]

Who are the kids inspired by? That’s where the problem is.

[clevited]

This is mildly confusing.

So, you want the ball to be more spinny to make it easier and fun for kids, but also it needs to come back to add skill to the game? You said the kids quit because it is too hard, so now a spinny ball is the answer to keeping the kids? I am sorry but these sound like contradictory ideas.

[jmck]

Most people have zero idea what goes on in high level Am golf so they won't know how true this is.

Here's another "one course" anecdote, to counter the "well they haven't had to put in a new set of tees at my local goat track so there is no problem" anecdotes. My local D1 school just ripped out a perfectly good course because the old one wasn't long enough to hold serious D1 events. Originally built in the mid-60s, like most other courses built at that time it tipped out at 66-6700 yards. They put in some new tees to bump it out to 6900 awhile back, but on a bunch of holes you couldn't put the tees anywhere to make the holes make any sort of logical strategic sense. Last year they ripped the course up entirely (well, okay they're reusing three holes) to put in a new course that plays to 7300.

There are a bunch of courses all over the country that used to be able to host high level Am stuff that are just too short to these days. And if you think bomb and gouge is bad on tour now, wait 'til you see how the kids coming up through high school right now play the game. I mean my local school was having real problems recruiting kids in 2015 because the course which had been perfectly fine from 1964-2000 was no longer relevant. Fortunately an alumnus felt like cutting a $5m check for a new course, but most courses aren't that fortunate.

[ThinkingPlus]

I mostly draw the ball. Fades are just harder for me to create period. I also only hit driver 3 - 4 times per round at my home course. Lots of forced layups. I draw tee shots intentionally on 5 of 7 tee balls on our front 9 to either hold into the prevailing wind or snap around a dogleg. The other 2 are fades or straight. Back is a little more straightforward.

I see lots of folks talking about the inability to spin the modern ball. Yet I don't see wedge spin dramatically less than what balatas used to produce. Maybe 10%. If driver spin is the issue, then more spin is available with different shafts and a downward AOA. Tee it low and hit it like a wedge. LOL.

[mahonie]

I responded before your edit...bare with.

My lad, who is 18 and very knowledgable of all world events, has just taken up golf (nicking my MP4s in the process!!) and the only golfer he really knows of is Tiger. Brooks Cupcake’s brand of golf is of no interest to him and he is the World No 1...see the problem?

The PGA Tour has ‘sold’ distance for a long time...trying to play ‘distance’ golf on short, tight courses (like we have in the UK) makes the game harder than it needs to be. If you’re offline 20 yards you’re more often than not dead. Learn to play the game properly where you have control of trajectory and shape and any course is open to good scoring not just those that are long and wide open.

 

[15th Club]

Thanks for the link to the Mickelson story. I read it, and so was able pull out these preposterous quotes:

”I also don't feel that you should punish the athletes for getting better,” he said. “I don't think that we have had massive equipment changes. We have just had athletes that have been able to take advantage of the equipment, more so than in the past. And I hate to see that discouraged.

“You look at what Bryson [DeChambeau] has done getting in the gym, getting after it, lifting weights, and hitting bombs . . . and now you're talking about trying to roll it back, because he has made himself a better athlete? So, I don't know if I agree with that.”

No one is talking about “punishing” any group of athletes. What “punishment”? Where does he get that? Is Phil worried about his standing with respect to recreational golfers (for whom the USGA probably wants no rollback)? Because there is assuredly no intent to “punish” longer-hitting Tour players in favor of shorter-hitting Tour players. At 49, is Phil a long hitter among Tour players? He’s currently 40th in driving distance.

Or does Phil just like talking about his launch monitor numbers with any reporter willing to listen?

 

[jmck]

He’s FIGJAM for a reason.

[nicelife]

Here's what the report should read: In the last one hundred years everything in existence is the best it has ever been, minus the Latin language and pollution. Solving pollution will spawn a trillion-trillion dollar industry. Latin will remain dead. Golf has never been better. Innovation across all sectors of the industry is at a 100 year high. Course conditions have never been better. The grass has never been smarter. Golf course architects are shaping the land into the most enjoyable tracks both long and short the game has ever seen. Our professional and top ranked amateurs have optimized their bodies and minds and are performing feats of golf unimaginable to our game's humble inventors. Our equipment manufactures and their technological partners are making the best equipment that has ever been made within the rules of golf. The rules are strong. The game is strong. In the next 100 years we will continue to innovate all things golf. Most importantly in the next 100 years we as golfers will have fun.

 

 

[Sean2]

And I think one of the things that make golf compelling on TV is shotmaking. Just bombing it down the fairway and hitting it out of the "rough" is boring to me.

[mahonie]

I’m opposite...fades are my natural swing, draws take a bit more work. Lol

I can’t spin the modern ball anywhere near like I could a balata. I learned early to control face to path to manage side spin and elevation...it took me ages to master the driver. However, the sense of satisfaction once I saw a shot and then pulled it off was immense...I rarely get the same satisfaction these days.

[15th Club]

Jmck; I hope that everyone reads your comment.

Near the top of my list of “most distance-threatened” courses is the landlocked Alister Mackenzie jewel at the University of Michigan. It must regularly host some of the longest-hitting amateurs in the game. There is no space, given the boundaries of the property, to push back any more tees.