USGA DISTANCE INSIGHT

[QuigleyDU]

 

That is very correct. Does the USGA use similar logic? does not really seem so.

[davep043]

How would you propose quantifying this effect? I just don't think its a realistic thing to try to evaluate.

[Dr. Hack]

It’s very interesting.

One wonders what would happen to equipment sales if the pros were only hitting “bombs” 220 yards? I can see it now.. “TaylorMade: better precision!”... with a picture of Nick Faldo. Not going to sell. Me thinks the big brands would fight any distance limitations tooth and nail. They are the major stakeholders, not the USGA or PGA.

[Darth Putter]

They need to end bifurcation and let the pros use the aluminum bats like the amateurs.

 

[clevited]

It might be difficult to quantify, but it is visible. You can find what these players are capable of and then see what they actually do on the course. Shotlink takes care of the course stuff, twitter posts and such take care of the capability part. You can also trace history and see how players have dialed it down through the years. Some due to age possibly, but others due to choice. I have read a lot of articles on this over the years and looked at a lot of stats. I know this is real and common. Imo, you would have to basically take a long drive professional's capabilities into account in order to properly adjust equipment to such a degree that it solves the "problem". Many of the courses on tour today basically put a governor on players off the tee. Just as an example, have you ever hit a drive with 9 seconds of air time? That bastard can move a TON even with the most gentle of breezes. It is extremely risky unless it is a wide open and non penal course.

[landolakes]

I like the idea of a tour ball-- bifurcating rules. MLB uses wood bats, the NFL uses a larger ball, why not a tour golf ball.

[caniac6]

I just don't want to have to spend more money to buy equipment to conform to what ever the USGA comes up with. Besides that, I'm just going to wait to see what will happen. I'll probably just adjust to what ever they decide on. I do have two old persimmon drivers just in case.

[bladehunter]

Right. In a soon to be failed attempt to drum up more business. I’m one of the fans they lost in the 90s during the beginning of the juicing era. I remember when canseco etc came on the scene in 87. It was fun to watch for a minute. Then it killed the game.

baseball is a perfect example of why distance kills. When everybody is long. Nobody is really long. And the thrill is gone. Then you have nothing left . Rebooting distance will not grow baseball. Probably just more foul ball and pitcher injuries.

[bladehunter]

Not really. Ping has a recent fitting with champ and they’ve figured out that at his speed more spin via a softer shaft setup actually gave him more carry and control . He just gained quite a bit. And this info is trickling down to fitters. There’s more carry to be had with more control , and it’s coming quick.

 

Ill see if I can get the link to post.

[QuigleyDU]

We are on the same page with baseball. Golf is a different animal in that much of the distance we see on tour is after the ball hits the ground. I think the USGA should use a doctors approach. Less intrusive to more depending on success.

 

 

SIDE NOTE 4 PAGES ALREADY KEEP IT UP!! hahah.

[clevited]

Last time I looked, his total distance came down significantly, compared to when he was on the web.

 

Edit: Keep in mind, this effect can also take the form of taking less than driver off the tee, effectively the same as throttling back driver swings.

[DFS PFD]

Isn't baseball's wooden bat policy for safety though? When I was coming up through different leagues they started making us switch to wood bats because kids couldn't react on small fields to line drives in the infield.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

Thanks for this. It's pretty interesting that courses have only lengthened by ~100 yards on average since the 1990s. The "but-but" paragraphs after that stat explain how it's out of control due to 48 courses built since 2011 and 11 long courses being built now, but I bet they wished the ~100 yards was more like 300 yards.

[QuigleyDU]

Thats what I remember. That plus just the tradition of wood bats. I am ok with sports making adjustments. Soft ball switched to a softer lower compression ball to try and reduce home runs. Table tennis switched from a 38 mm ball to a 40 mm ball, to a 40 mm plastic ball all in an attempt to slow the game down. In the case of Table tennis, it was simply to increase rally time to promote TV viewing.

 

Changes happen. This just seems like the wrong thing to change and it seems much more reactionary and political than out of necessity.

[DFS PFD]

Especially when they try and sell it as being "pro-active". Could've worked on this instead of the groove ruling circa 2010

 

[LICC]

Finau would be spraying the ball all over if he took a full swing. As golfers always have, these guys are swing as much as they can while still controlling it as best they can.

[cardia10]

Considering 99.9% of the golfing public is slightly longer than 10 years ago, I doubt a biased survey will make much difference. Obviously there is agenda to be pushed and it will be crammed down the golfing public's throat as usual with little disregard of how the game is quickly shrinking.

[jvincent]

I might as well chime in.

Bifurcation never happens. It will kill off the golf equipment industry.They will likely start to change course setup (softer, longer rough) because it really doesn't cost anything.Bold prediction here. They update the conforming ball test to add some kind of distance limiting parameter a year from now. The change will have 2 years of runway for the manufacturers to get product out. Existing models grandfathered for 5 years from the start of the 2 year period. The new ball will be about the same as what we have today.

[bladehunter]

How can I agree with half that and not the other half ?

 

Its shrinking back down to where it should be pre long drive boom. Everything has a limit. This was just a bubble that’s bursting.

[clevited]

I agree. I think they will do something but it will end up being just like the groove and anchoring ban. It won't be worth all the time and effort but they will feel good that they did "something".

[bladehunter]

@clevited

Dont you see my point ?

If champ and other longest guys are throttling down , then if you roll back the capability of distance to allow them to swing freely , their overall isnt going to change much. Yet the short and mid length guys will get shorter. Why ? They are swinging all out now.
Roll it back and the long guy sees his whole advantage.

[braincramp52]

I still say the strength and conditioning of the players over the last 20 years has much more to do with distance than equipment.

[QuigleyDU]

 

 

So you are trying to run Zach Johnson off the tour?? haha. I am kidding. I allows appreciate your measured responses.

[Krt22]

So what your saying is we need a more non-linear ball, one that compresses more for higher speed players. A redistribution of length if you will

[jvincent]

I haven't busted out my propellor hat, but non-linearity of ball speed is where they need to go.

The current conforming ball test doesn't address that in any way. It's been a while since I looked at the test specifics but IIRC the CHS they use in the test is below what the fast swingers can reach today.

EDIT: Just looked it up and the Initial Velocity Test for balls is 170 mph. Plenty of guys hit ballspeeds greater than that.

[clevited]

Sure I see what you are getting at, but that isn't what the USGA is going for here.

[Wesquire]

Is there any definitive evidence that strength and conditioning produce significantly more speed? Rory was super long even before he worked out much. Tiger was faster before he bulked up. Bubba doesn't look like he can lift much. Did John Daly ever see the inside of a gym? I think it is more likely that athletic players are faster and that athletic players are more likely to workout. It is a selection bias more than a cause and effect.

 

I'm talking about for tour players. I know that strength and conditioning is massive for the types of swings LD guys use.

[Krt22]

Yikes, I was being facetious.

[clevited]

The ball, at least as far as ball speed is concerned, is still less efficient at transmitting energy from the club (the club is too) for the high speed player than it is for the slower speed player. It used to be WAY worse. Today it is more linear meaning energy put it equals close to the same percentage of energy conserved across the swing speed spectrum vs what we had back in the 90s and beyond.

[Krt22]

I wonder why LICC hasn't chimed in yet, this is right in his wheelhouse.