TaylorMade SIM vs PING G410 LST

[Trap Junior]

Have been playing the Plus this year but found I was losing distance so just got the LST.  Its a bit longer but not quite as forgiving.  I also tried the SIM indoors on Trackman and was hitting that even longer (and straighter) but was afraid to plump for it for fear of it being different ont he course.

Now I'm kind of thinking maybe I should have gone for it.  Its 6 yds longer and the dispersion was less (on Trackman). 

[setter02]

In current set up, the Sim is longer for me and more consistent.  My guess is it has more to do with the shaft (Ventus Black Velocore 6x untipped) than anything as when I did a driver fitting a month ago, I could only snap hook the Sim in what they had to offer me.  I don't think that my driver swing is dramatically better than a month ago, but I'm happy.  Tho really liked the stock Tensei orange in the Ping and want to try the Pro version now.

[JB_007]

Earlier this season I tried every driver on the market and in the end, the SIM gave me the best results on the trackman / quad. I did have the opportunity to demo the G410 / TS3 for a few weeks just to compare against the SIM out on the course. 

 

The TS3 was just as long as the SIM, as long as I hit it perfectly, otherwise for me it was a bit wild. The G410 was, for me, about 10-15yrds shorter, but I was able to control the driver a bit better ( hitting draw / fade).

 

The reason why I decided to keep the SIM was even though I lost a little bit of accuracy / workability, the extra distance was too much to give up. I would say, again for me, while the G410 hit the fairway more, the SIM doesn't put me too far away, maybe 3-5 yards off, which isn't all that damaging. I'd rather hit a short club from the second cut than a longer club from the fairway.. just my experience though. 

[Red4282]

In my opinion, you cant go wrong with these two if you fit into these type of drivers, its like 1a and 1b. Both seem to be fade biased to a degree, or at least have the capability of it. I think the SIM gets the consensus “looks and feels better”. PING is more stable, but the SIM is no slouch there either. More consistent contact players will gravitate towards the SIM while some who find them selves all over the face at times will love the ping. I also think the SIM has a higher potential for distance given its a lower spin head. If you hit up on the ball a ton and already produce low spin, the ping should fit the bill. 

[RxGolf1]

The SIM is a fade machine for me. Also too low of spin. It could be a great driver with the right shaft set-up however. It looks and sounds great. 

[benclab]

I have a SIM and came from a G410 lst. I liked the G410 but I noticed the ball would fall out of the sky in a weird way. So I demoed a SIM, bought it and tested head to head on the course for a few rounds. SIM was way longer and with the G410, I tried 4 different shafts, all the same spinny result. 

[Trap Junior]

Where would the SIM rank among TaylorMade drivers over the years?  IS this considered a good one by tour pros or did they prefer the M5 for example or M3 etc.. etc..?

[Trap Junior]

1 hour ago, benclab said:

I have a SIM and came from a G410 lst. I liked the G410 but I noticed the ball would fall out of the sky in a weird way. So I demoed a SIM, bought it and tested head to head on the course for a few rounds. SIM was way longer and with the G410, I tried 4 different shafts, all the same spinny result. 

Hi.  Yeah my concern with the G410 LST is also the spin. I feel I am longer than this driver is putting me out there.  How are your bad shots with SIM?  Off the planet or in play?  That's my fear of the SIM.  I'd be fearful my bad shots would be destructive but did get good dispersion on Trackman with it and great ball speed.  I was a bit scared to pull the trigger on the Taylormade so went for the Ping.

Edited September 30, 2020 by Trap Junior

[kcstock]

I’ll be following this closely...

[benclab]

8 hours ago, Trap Junior said:

Hi.  Yeah my concern with the G410 LST is also the spin. I feel I am longer than this driver is putting me out there.  How are your bad shots with SIM?  Off the planet or in play?  That's my fear of the SIM.  I'd be fearful my bad shots would be destructive but did get good dispersion on Trackman with it and great ball speed.  I was a bit scared to pull the trigger on the Taylormade so went for the Ping.

In play. G410 is straighter but the SIM isn't that much different in accuracy. Dispersion is mainly shaft related. Just find a shaft with the same characteristics as the G410 one and you'll be fine.

[GooseHook]

I hope I can start swinging well enough to contribute here!

 

I switched from SIM to SIM Max and enjoyed it for most of the summer, but there was a big right miss and the Max seemed to go too high. I was afraid that lofting down the SIM Max would make it even harder to keep the ball from going way right so I swapped out to the 410 LST. 

[J13]

6 minutes ago, GooseHook said:

I hope I can start swinging well enough to contribute here!

 

I switched from SIM to SIM Max and enjoyed it for most of the summer, but there was a big right miss and the Max seemed to go too high. I was afraid that lofting down the SIM Max would make it even harder to keep the ball from going way right so I swapped out to the 410 LST. 

 

 

With the rear moveable weight the G410LST should be able to help you dial things in better.

[GooseHook]

4 hours ago, J13 said:

 

 

With the rear moveable weight the G410LST should be able to help you dial things in better.

 

I actually got it out to the range for ~50 balls, and since hotmelting it the LST was great in the neutral position. I didn't notice any huge foul balls on good swings and on quite a few not so good swings, the movement off my target wasn't as extreme. Makes sense since the MOI of the LST is something like 10% higher than the SIM Max.

 

Face feedback is much better than the SIM drivers in my opinion, I always knew exactly where I was making contact. 

[Trap Junior]

I just decided to get the SIM as well today.  I had tried it perviously int he Hzrdus smoke green 6.5.   But I ended up getting it with the Ventus Blue 6x.  Is this a good shaft?  How does it compare to the Hzrdus green? 

 

It states on TM's website the torque is 3.7 but on Fujikuras website torgque is stated as 3.1.

 

No doubt the TM shaft is probably a crappy version of the real thing?

 

 

Edited October 1, 2020 by Trap Junior

[GooseHook]

34 minutes ago, Trap Junior said:

I just decided to get the SIM as well today.  I had tried it perviously int he Hzrdus smoke green 6.5.   But I ended up getting it with the Ventus Blue 6x.  Is this a good shaft?  How does it compare to the Hzrdus green? 

 

It states on TM's website the torque is 3.7 but on Fujikuras website torgque is stated as 3.1.

 

No doubt the TM shaft is probably a crappy version of the real thing?

 

 

The stock Ventus in the SIM is NOT the real one, it has the name but not the design or materials that are in the Ventus “Velocore” versions. That doesn’t mean the stock one won’t fit you though.

[Lasorcier]

I got my SIM 9-degree with Ventus Blue 6X Velocore 44.75 Inches (tipped it 1/2 inch -- it was originally made to 45.25 inches).  I have a 400 10.5 degree delofted to 9.5 44.75 inches (not SFT and not LST) and 410 plus Tour 65X at standard loft 44.75 inches.

 

Observations:

 

1.  SIM was a fade machine for me and any ball struck toward the heel was major fade (like next fairway).  Toe hits were okay.  Center hits flew straight until the very end, where it would fade a little bit.  So on an optimally hit ball, it would fade at the end, at least a little bit.  Difficult to close face for me.  There is an extensive discussion here as to what people, including me, have tried to remedy it:

2.  I would hit either the 400 or 410 and they would go straight.  The 400 is my go to, as in if it is a tight hole and accuracy matters, that is the club.

3.  I wondered whether it was shaft related.  So, I put the Ventus Blue 6X Velocore in the G400 and it goes super straight.  Just perfect.  The G400 and the Ventus are now a married pair, not to be separated.  The Velocore Ventus is a very good shaft.  No idea on the TM version of it.

4.  The G410 has a Tour 65X in it.  It also hits well.  It is longer than the 400, but not quite as forgiving. 

5.  The SIM is very low spin from my experience.  I have positive AofA (2.4 degrees on average), and would frequently produce knuckle balls that were very long, but you could tell it was a knuckleball. 

6.  I got exasperated with the constant fades and decided to abandon the experiment.

7.  I think it is a launch monitor queen and the real world results are not the same.  I would say it is a downright unforgiving club for me.  The launch monitor suggested 13 yards distance over the G400.  Real world results is sort of true.  Good hits were longer.  But there were a lot of good contacts that didn't go straight.  I'll take 13 yards shorter and 11/13 fairways type of performance versus 13 yards longer and 4/13 fairways any day. 

 

I hope that helps.

 

[Red4282]

1 hour ago, Lasorcier said:

I got my SIM 9-degree with Ventus Blue 6X Velocore 44.75 Inches (tipped it 1/2 inch -- it was originally made to 45.25 inches).  I have a 400 10.5 degree delofted to 9.5 44.75 inches (not SFT and not LST) and 410 plus Tour 65X at standard loft 44.75 inches.

 

Observations:

 

1.  SIM was a fade machine for me and any ball struck toward the heel was major fade (like next fairway).  Toe hits were okay.  Center hits flew straight until the very end, where it would fade a little bit.  So on an optimally hit ball, it would fade at the end, at least a little bit.  Difficult to close face for me.  There is an extensive discussion here as to what people, including me, have tried to remedy it:

2.  I would hit either the 400 or 410 and they would go straight.  The 400 is my go to, as in if it is a tight hole and accuracy matters, that is the club.

3.  I wondered whether it was shaft related.  So, I put the Ventus Blue 6X Velocore in the G400 and it goes super straight.  Just perfect.  The G400 and the Ventus are now a married pair, not to be separated.  The Velocore Ventus is a very good shaft.  No idea on the TM version of it.

4.  The G410 has a Tour 65X in it.  It also hits well.  It is longer than the 400, but not quite as forgiving. 

5.  The SIM is very low spin from my experience.  I have positive AofA (2.4 degrees on average), and would frequently produce knuckle balls that were very long, but you could tell it was a knuckleball. 

6.  I got exasperated with the constant fades and decided to abandon the experiment.

7.  I think it is a launch monitor queen and the real world results are not the same.  I would say it is a downright unforgiving club for me.  The launch monitor suggested 13 yards distance over the G400.  Real world results is sort of true.  Good hits were longer.  But there were a lot of good contacts that didn't go straight.  I'll take 13 yards shorter and 11/13 fairways type of performance versus 13 yards longer and 4/13 fairways any day. 

 

I hope that helps.

 

Your observations are accurate but it just didnt fit you. First you needed to loft up the SIM, second, you may have had a hard time turning it over but for someone like Me who lives on the left side of the course, its a match made in heaven. The SIM d or max was probably the better fit for you.

[Lasorcier]

Agree, it just didn't fit.  That is my disappointment with the club fitter in this instance. 

 

I can see it being a dream for some who live on the right side of the course.  I will say the club is very hard to draw so for a hooker, it would be a great club.

[GooseHook]

One interesting this is that even though the LST is 10cc smaller than the SIM, somehow it has a deeper face and larger address footprint. I was always trying to figure out where all the meat went on the SIM. 

[Red4282]

8 minutes ago, GooseHook said:

One interesting this is that even though the LST is 10cc smaller than the SIM, somehow it has a deeper face and larger address footprint. I was always trying to figure out where all the meat went on the SIM. 

Its all out in the toe lol

[GooseHook]

6 minutes ago, Red4282 said:

Its all out in the toe lol

Haha that inertia generator is quite thicc.

[Trap Junior]

Played with the sim and Ping today.  My miss is always left as in pull draw or pull hook. Good shots straight to slight draw.

SIM went straight right on me all day.  Had it a little open and the weight central.  I then changed it to square and weight central to slightly on the heel.  Bit straighter but still leaking right. 

[GooseHook]

Got a couple more rounds in with the 410 LST over the weekend. After hotmelting the head, I glued up a Speeder Evo II to try. I played the 2014 Motore 757 for a long time and was hoping to find some old mojo to shock my system.

 

I played one round in the standard setting, and quickly changed it the next day to the little "-" setting with the neutral weight. Good strikes are traveling quite high still but the ball flight does not drift like the SIM Max. I had far more bad strikes however, and did notice that off the low end of the face I had some playable drives. A couple of heel-side shots did not carry as far as I had expected, although those were into a head wind. 

 

Next time out I'm going to try the big minus setting and move the weight to Fade. There is a small sliver of confidence coming back. 

[Albatross85]

Couldn't get along with the shallow face of the SIM. I think the g410LST is the most fade biased driver I've ever owned and i was a Cobra LTD Pro user for years!

 

The G410 is so easy to hit a flat fade with but the high draw is in it too. What i love most is that i am supremely confident that its not going to over-draw. Mishits just want to go forward without too much side spin. Very forgiving and makes me wish i jumped on the Ping bandwagon for the G400 lst a few years back. 

 

SIM was a great looking head but i dont think it was longer that my LST. I do however agree that the SIM Ti fairway is a BEAST. Not sure its much different than the M5 titanium but they are both great fairways. 

[J13]

26 minutes ago, Albatross85 said:

Couldn't get along with the shallow face of the SIM. I think the g410LST is the most fade biased driver I've ever owned and i was a Cobra LTD Pro user for years!

 

The G410 is so easy to hit a flat fade with but the high draw is in it too. What i love most is that i am supremely confident that its not going to over-draw. Mishits just want to go forward without too much side spin. Very forgiving and makes me wish i jumped on the Ping bandwagon for the G400 lst a few years back. 

 

SIM was a great looking head but i dont think it was longer that my LST. I do however agree that the SIM Ti fairway is a BEAST. Not sure its much different than the M5 titanium but they are both great fairways. 

 

 

Both are great drivers just depends on the player.  I prefer the LST but know others who love the SIM.  I would recommend people buy both haha

[Flip4000]

I had a ping g410 lst for half the year and a sim for the back half.

 

Ping really like the forgiveness was great and it did knock some spin off my old driver.

One of the big killers of this driver for me was as someone who struggled with a hook, I couldn't do a ton to mitigate it. I moved it to flat and moved the weight to the toe which gave me a long ropy draw. Very playable as it was extremely consistent, but it was a hard shot shape to play in all conditions. Additionally the ball spun quite a bit for me and I still hit the ball miles high which led to a huge amount of carry, but less roll.  I also struggled to find the center of the face consistently with this driver, but it was so forgiving, it really didnt make that much difference in distance.

 

Pros: Very forgiving and consistent shot shape. Makes it easy to play

Con: curved a little bit more than i'd like and the ball wasn't flying as far as I felt it should on good hits. A touch spinny and sometimes would lose a shot way right or way left

 

Moving into the sim, of course it was a monster on the simulator but I was worried about on course performance. I was fit by my golf coach so I had a little more faith that this was a good fit rather than just sales pitch. On the course it was really good. Super hot off the face and the thing just wants to fade and I havent hit a hook since June! One of the major pluses is my ball doesnt curve to much off line so as long as I start it on a decent line the ball isn't moving more than 20 yards. The issue with this is I do have a 2 way miss in that right now the ball will either have a small fade or small draw meaning I really need to aim down the middle to accommodate instead of up the left like am used to.  Also, this thing is LONG. I have hit balls off the fairway and looked in my normal miss area only to find the ball 30+ yards ahead of where it landed even on miss hits. 

 

Pros: Long, fairly straight. Really helps mitigate a hook. shots dont curve much from start line. Also the low spin really keeps my flight down which is HUGE as a higher spin player who would have drives eaten up by the wind

Cons: expensive, Sometimes too hot on bad swings ( aka a ball that gets away from me and ends up going way way right)

 

Honestly you can go either way. You legitimately cannot make a bad decision. I do think for most people the Ping is going to be better on a day to day basis however the Sim will give you that Bomb ball that you may not quite get from the ping.

 

 For me the sim is longer and more controllable. I dont hit a ton more fairways, but I lose less balls since my drives are staying on the same hole.

The ping is long as well and more consistent for me as far as shot shape. I felt I had to work a bit harder to control it, but was more predictable.

 

I still really like my Sim and it is one of the best drivers I have owned ( tied with the 910 d3)

Edited October 13, 2020 by Flip4000

[MattCarter]

So the general consensus on the ping is that the 410 plus is slightly more forgiving than the lst but spins about 300rpm more?

[MattCarter]

So the general consensus on the ping is that the 410 plus is slightly more forgiving than the lst but spins about 300rpm more?

[MattCarter]

So the general consensus on the ping is that the 410 plus is slightly more forgiving than the lst but spins about 300rpm more?

[Qegurezi]

Yes, yes, yes.