Mitsubishi MMT 105 Iron Shafts

[nick]

Anyone noticed that their spin went went down significantly with these shafts? 

[barosborough]

Looking forward to demoing these this year.  Currently play P770's Modus 120 S but play a lot and could use a little break for my elbow.

[JD3]

On 1/8/2023 at 1:06 PM, Pepperturbo said:

I have SF 95cw, 110cw and 125cw shaft sets.  When I first changed to composite, I tried i95cw S, didn't like it, so switched to SF 110cw in 2-PW for nearly two years before testing MMT and switching.  MMT 105s and 125s are much smoother than any of Steel Fiber.  No doubt in my mind, the difference comes from HOW metal is infused into the graphite.  I loved MMT 125s in my 620 MB irons, but a few months back they grew too heavy over 18, so now have 105s.

 

Before switching to composite, I played PX 6.0 for 15+years.  IMO, the feel of SF 95cw S & 110cw S and 125cw S, are easy to switch to cause they feel similar to steel.

But the PX 6.0 aren't smooth at all. So how is it you made a good transition to the MMT for it's smoothness after 15 years with the PX?

Edited April 23, 2023 by JD3

[JD3]

On 7/29/2021 at 10:53 AM, toddmanley said:

No direct experience but keep in mind the MMT’s profile is a lot like the DG’s. When I switched from X100’s to the MMT 105tx it was pretty seamless. 

I don't see how the MMTs (at least 105) are modelled on the DG300. The MMTs I've hit (albeit indoors) have a very stout butt, whereas DGS300 are softest in the butt. I guess from the mid bend down they're similar but the butt is a very important part of a shafts feel.

[R_Swanson]

1 hour ago, JD3 said:

I don't see how the MMTs (at least 105) are modelled on the DG300. The MMTs I've hit (albeit indoors) have a very stout butt, whereas DGS300 are softest in the butt. I guess from the mid bend down they're similar but the butt is a very important part of a shafts feel.

 

The EI profiles are pretty similar across the entire shaft (too the DGS, which is the tan line).  MMT is a little more blueboard-ish, but still. 

 

 

 

 

[Pepperturbo]

3 hours ago, JD3 said:

But the PX 6.0 aren't smooth at all. So how is it you made a good transition to the MMT for it's smoothness after 15 years with the PX?

I feel PX 6.0 120g, 5.5 115g bends as smooth, not the rebar that others experience; due to my hitter mechanics.  The comparable 120g Modus didn't fit me that well.  IMO how each of us experiences a shaft depends on our physical strength, feel/sensitivity, nature of our swing mechanics, the shaft's composition and area of bend.  I get along best with mid-high to high bend shafts. 

 

EI profiles are idealistic, like Iron Byron stats born in science, having little to nothing to do with how each of us actually experience a shaft.

 

When I first switched to composite, I tested SF i95cw stiff, i110cw stiff, at the time wasn't aware of MMT.  The former SF i95 bend was in the wrong place, creating a fade tail.  Yet MMT 95 stiff does great, straight as an arrow; same weight slightly different bend, very different composition and materials.  Anyhow, I played i110cw stiff +/- 2yrs before switching to MMT 125s in 620 MB irons for about 2yrs, before switching to MMT 105s to regain a few yards lost to age.  Same goes for MMT 95s.

 

 

Edited April 23, 2023 by Pepperturbo

[JD3]

2 hours ago, R_Swanson said:

 

The EI profiles are pretty similar across the entire shaft (too the DGS, which is the tan line).  MMT is a little more blueboard-ish, but still. 

 

 

 

 

So if im reading chart correctly, bottom line is MMT, middle DGS, what's top?

[R_Swanson]

55 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

I feel PX 6.0 120g, 5.5 115g bends as smooth, not the rebar that others experience; due to my hitter mechanics.  The comparable 120g Modus didn't fit me that well.  IMO how each of us experiences a shaft depends on our physical strength, feel/sensitivity, nature of our swing mechanics, the shaft's composition and area of bend.  I get along best with mid-high to high bend shafts. 

 

EI profiles are idealistic, like Iron Byron stats born in science, having little to nothing to do with how each of us actually experience a shaft.

 

 

Sort of off-topic, but I guess my mileage may vary because thats not what I am finding.  I used to fit clubs 20+ yrs ago before all this cool stuff was out and public, and I just got back into golf.  I went an hit a ton of stuff, and while researching shafts on here I learned about golfshaftreviews and El profiles, etc.  Low and behold, almost every shaft I liked when hitting had similar profiles.  The ones I disliked were also pretty similar.   Over the past few months I've hit more and more shafts, bought and sold stuff, got fittings, etc... and it is still holding up as a super easy and useful starting point for me.  If its a profile that is similar to what I like, it might not be *the* shaft, but I certainly wont hate it and could play it.

Edited April 23, 2023 by R_Swanson

[R_Swanson]

1 minute ago, JD3 said:

So if im reading chart correctly, bottom line is MMT, middle DGS, what's top?

No, sorry.

 

Top chart are the DG's.  R/S/X (Bronze/Tan/Black)

Bottom chart is the MMT tapered tip iron.

[Pepperturbo]

1 minute ago, R_Swanson said:

 

Sort of off-topic, but I guess my mileage may vary because thats not what I am finding.  I used to fit clubs 20+ yrs ago before all this cool stuff was out and public, and I just got back into golf.  I went an hit a ton of stuff, and while researching shafts on here I learned about golfshaftreviews and El profiles, etc.  Low and behold, almost every shaft I liked when hitting had similar profiles.  The ones I disliked were also pretty similar.   Over the past few months I've hit more and more shafts, bought and sold stuff, got fittings, etc... and it is still holding up as a super easy and useful starting point for me.

If that works for you, fine. 

 

Observing chart EI profiles doesn't make said EI profiles anything more than an informational.  You say it's a starting point, again, fine.  IMO charts are ideal comparisons.  What happens to that shaft under game and individual swing pressure, is an altogether separate issue.  You, yourself said, a group of shafts you like had "similar" profiles, and the one's you didn't like, similar too. 

 

What I said was similarities don't mean the same when it comes to optimum performance.   Similar profile can mean one shaft profile has a bend fractionally lower than another shaft; fractionally can mean one shaft works, one doesn't.  I want the bend that works for my swing; as close to high bend with stiff tip and stiffer butt.  I am not settling for less.

 

Everyone in the executive corridor uses charts daily.  But, because I have near fifty years of actual experience maintaining a company in black ink, my default is to rely on my proven experience over charts and unproven business school theories.  The same is true with golf.  How we value chart info may come down to experience over limited to no experience, I got no problem with that, except I am predisposed to advising that.  Additionally, subtle differences may not be noticeable or of concern to some people.  You have a good day, I am off to the gym.

[JD3]

2 hours ago, R_Swanson said:

 

The EI profiles are pretty similar across the entire shaft (too the DGS, which is the tan line).  MMT is a little more blueboard-ish, but still. 

 

 

 

 

The odd thing for me (and take it fwiw since I've only taken a few swings with the shaft indoors), is that i feel like if they just cut about 2" off the end then it would get into the area that's slightly softer and more playable. It just seems like the very end of the butt is super stiff. 

[Pepperturbo]

21 hours ago, JD3 said:

The odd thing for me (and take it fwiw since I've only taken a few swings with the shaft indoors), is that i feel like if they just cut about 2" off the end then it would get into the area that's slightly softer and more playable. It just seems like the very end of the butt is super stiff. 

If I understand you...the new shaft length of each Taper Tip MMT shaft allows butt trimming, and tip prep for each individual club.  After cutting the butt still maintains it's original stiffness.  Parallel tip shafts come at one set length, expecting tip and butt trimming to reach a specific frequency/flex, with the same tip and butt stiffness, what ever that may be.

[RobYakes]

Just an FYI, Sub70 recently built me a new set of irons with the MMT 105s in taper tip. We had a hard time getting the swingweight down to a reasonable number. At standard graphite length (0.5”+ vs standard steel), most irons were coming in at D5-D7 range. 
 

We had to go down to standard steel length and Sub70 had to find their lightest iron heads for each club to get them in my desired range (D2 long irons, D3-4 in my PW and wedges).

 

Few rounds in and I’m loving them. Definitely just as true to flex as any steel iron I’ve played but vibration is much less. 
 

Got the MMT 90 parallel in my driving iron. Wish the 105s were matte black as well but still look great. 

[JD3]

18 minutes ago, RobYakes said:

Just an FYI, Sub70 recently built me a new set of irons with the MMT 105s in taper tip. We had a hard time getting the swingweight down to a reasonable number. At standard graphite length (0.5”+ vs standard steel), most irons were coming in at D5-D7 range. 
 

We had to go down to standard steel length and Sub70 had to find their lightest iron heads for each club to get them in my desired range (D2 long irons, D3-4 in my PW and wedges).

 

Few rounds in and I’m loving them. Definitely just as true to flex as any steel iron I’ve played but vibration is much less. 
 

Got the MMT 90 parallel in my driving iron. Wish the 105s were matte black as well but still look great. 

Yeah the guy I know uses 105 in his irons plays them at standard steel length. His are P790s and they SW at D2-3, depending on club. Overall though what do you think of the 105? As stated previously the backwards swing test (I'm lefty) they feel very tight especially on the grip end. Is it possible to get any flex and "pop" out of them?

[JD3]

47 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

If I understand you...the new shaft length of each Taper Tip MMT shaft allows butt trimming, and tip prep for each individual club.  After cutting the butt still maintains it's original stiffness.  Parallel tip shafts come at one set length, expecting tip and butt trimming to reach a specific frequency/flex, with the same tip and butt stiffness, what ever that may be.

No, im not commenting on fitting, just feel. 

[Pepperturbo]

7 minutes ago, JD3 said:

No, im not commenting on fitting, just feel. 

I wasn't talking about fitting.  Shaft does NOT lose it's feel. 

[phizzy30]

Just now, RobYakes said:

Just an FYI, Sub70 recently built me a new set of irons with the MMT 105s in taper tip. We had a hard time getting the swingweight down to a reasonable number. At standard graphite length (0.5”+ vs standard steel), most irons were coming in at D5-D7 range. 
 

We had to go down to standard steel length and Sub70 had to find their lightest iron heads for each club to get them in my desired range (D2 long irons, D3-4 in my PW and wedges).

 

Few rounds in and I’m loving them. Definitely just as true to flex as any steel iron I’ve played but vibration is much less. 
 

Got the MMT 90 parallel in my driving iron. Wish the 105s were matte black as well but still look great. 

Same thing happened when I got my 125TX installed by Eric over at New Level.  He originally told me they would be D5 so I knew that the MMT swing weight out on the heavier side.  He somehow got it down to D3.  I play my irons 1/4" short of standard.  I'm guessing he picked out lighter heads.  I'm happy with them but the club ho in me wants to test the Axiom 125x, lol.   

Edited April 24, 2023 by phizzy30

[Pepperturbo]

10 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

Same thing happened when I got my 125TX installed by Eric over at New Level.  He originally told me they would be D5 so I knew that the MMT swing weight out on the heavier side.  He somehow got it down to D3.  I play my irons 1/4" short of standard.  I'm guessing he picked out lighter heads.  I'm happy with them but the club ho in me wants to test the Axiom 125x, lol.   

I knew back in the day of G.Loomis, big OEMs had two different steel and graphite shaft head weight runs.  Didn't know due to costs, any were still doing that today.  I know Titleist doesn't. 

 

Regarding Axiom, I was thinking something similar... LOL

[JD3]

On 7/26/2021 at 8:55 PM, animalgolfs said:

I have very little mmt105 time but extensive SF110 time.....imo I'd ss the 105s 1x to match the 110 SF straight in.......your mileage may vary greatly but I'm tending to 105s is firmer than the 110 

 

Again, I think your loading/release would dictate your final decision 

 

thats funny though because the SF110's torgue is 1.9 and MMT105 is 2.8. 

[RobYakes]

58 minutes ago, JD3 said:

Yeah the guy I know uses 105 in his irons plays them at standard steel length. His are P790s and they SW at D2-3, depending on club. Overall though what do you think of the 105? As stated previously the backwards swing test (I'm lefty) they feel very tight especially on the grip end. Is it possible to get any flex and "pop" out of them?

They are definitely more of a one-piece feel but not boardy by any means. I’ve hit them at 3/4 speed and have tried to step on them and there’s no issue with either. I actually like that I can throttle up and I don’t feel like the shaft isn’t going to handle it or I’m going to snap hook something. 

[NRJyzr]

27 minutes ago, JD3 said:

thats funny though because the SF110's torgue is 1.9 and MMT105 is 2.8. 

 

Torque is a complete non-player, for a few different reasons.  One of which is illustrated by the numbers you cite; published torque values are meaningless, the companies all measure it differently.

 

 

[phizzy30]

41 minutes ago, RobYakes said:

They are definitely more of a one-piece feel but not boardy by any means. I’ve hit them at 3/4 speed and have tried to step on them and there’s no issue with either. I actually like that I can throttle up and I don’t feel like the shaft isn’t going to handle it or I’m going to snap hook something. 

Opposite experience here.  MMT is fine when I make my stock swing, but when go after one, the big hook can come into play.  LAGP L-Series is more stable for me but I prefer the feel of the MMT. 

[tippethor]

You guys know if i can get the 105tx in i230 and what the upcharge is? 
as far as i can see, only apex pro21 offered theese as one of the stock offerings. I hope other do the same 

[Pepperturbo]

On 4/24/2023 at 12:10 PM, JD3 said:

thats funny though because the SF110's torgue is 1.9 and MMT105 is 2.8. 

I played i110cw S & i125cw in wedges and MMT 105-S and MMT 125TX in wedges, both in 620 MBs, for near 2yrs each; the latter are still in my 620 MBs. 

 

Not sure SF i110cw S vs MMT 105 S is a just comparison, what I notice is butt diameters of both.  On the other hand, SF i95cw torque is 2.0-2.4 variable, vs MMT 95 S, at 2.9 fixed, seems more comparable.

 

Also, when I tested and played i110cw, was told the following by Titleist; this makes the case as to why so many play i95 R.

i95cw Butt Frequency was 305 cpm, Tip Frequency was 894 cpm and Torque was 2.6

i110cw Butt Frequency was 301 cpm, Tip Frequency was 905 cpm, and Torque 2.9

 

[Amarsuperstar]

Has anyone hard stepped the 105tx and noticed a difference? I’m ready to test and always looking for ways to lower the flight. I think my swing is better with a lighter total weight so I’d like to try the 105 before the 125. 

[AWcOBB]

What length is everyone playing the MMT in? Standard graphite length(5i 38 1/2”) or steel(5i @ 38”)?

[jeffrey r]

6 hours ago, AWcOBB said:

What length is everyone playing the MMT in? Standard graphite length(5i 38 1/2”) or steel(5i @ 38”)?

 

"Standard" steel (6i @ 37.5"), though I put standard in quotes, as I am still finding that among different OEM's, lined up next to each other, lengths are still different when they should be identical. 

 

Anyway, bottom line, I do not want any extra length on my irons, so I want to play my graphite shafts at standard iron lengths.  And, with recent orders of 923 Hot Metal and P790 iron sets, both with MMT, swing weights on both sets were right in the D2-D3 range where I like it.  Unless they did something with the build, straight in the MMT 105 seem to swing weight much better than my previous Steelfiber i110 regular flex, which are notorious for low swing weight and resulted in some pretty poor builds from Ping.

 

MMT 105 are pretty fantastic shafts.  Very solid and smooth.

[AWcOBB]

36 minutes ago, jeffrey r said:

 

"Standard" steel (6i @ 37.5"), though I put standard in quotes, as I am still finding that among different OEM's, lined up next to each other, lengths are still different when they should be identical. 

 

Anyway, bottom line, I do not want any extra length on my irons, so I want to play my graphite shafts at standard iron lengths.  And, with recent orders of 923 Hot Metal and P790 iron sets, both with MMT, swing weights on both sets were right in the D2-D3 range where I like it.  Unless they did something with the build, straight in the MMT 105 seem to swing weight much better than my previous Steelfiber i110 regular flex, which are notorious for low swing weight and resulted in some pretty poor builds from Ping.

 

MMT 105 are pretty fantastic shafts.  Very solid and smooth.

I’ve had MMT 105tx in P7MC and also MMT 90s in Maltby TS4. “Standard” steel length in P7MC at D7 SW and the TS4 is 1/4” longer at D2. Ive been surprised that both feel very similar and I’m not exactly sure what to make of that. I know anything less than D2 SW does make a playing difference to me. As for performance the 105tx was very straight but right of target while the 90s will miss slightly left of target. My thinking is the 105s would also feel extremely similar to me and maybe split the difference. I never got simulator numbers on them but on course the two are close in distance.

[Pepperturbo]

7 hours ago, AWcOBB said:

What length is everyone playing the MMT in? Standard graphite length(5i 38 1/2”) or steel(5i @ 38”)?

My 620 MBs and CBs have MMT 105s – steel 38" length.

[Pepperturbo]

13 minutes ago, AWcOBB said:

My thinking is the 105s would also feel extremely similar to me and maybe split the difference. I never got simulator numbers on them but on course the two are close in distance.

I have a set of MMT 95s, that used to be in T100s.  The weight difference between 95 and 105 was noticeable, both at D2.  I actually prefer 95's over 105s, just a feel thing.  Both are straight, but when I lose the ball, it's left regardless of the profile or weight.