using push carts

[ConcernedBoutCOVID]

do you (or your kids) use push carts?

 

how do you get kids who only want to carry to use them?

[wildcatden]

"For example, in Wolkodoff’s study, golfers scored lower while walking with a caddie or with their clubs on a push cart than they did when using a motorized cart. And golfers carrying a golf bag posted the highest average score."

 

https://onpar.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/a-little-scientific-research-for-all-those-19th-hole-debates/

 

 

[BFD3]

On 11/7/2020 at 5:30 AM, ConcernedBoutCOVID said:

do you (or your kids) use push carts?

 

how do you get kids who only want to carry to use them?

Once a kid (or adult) uses a push cart, he/she is not going to “want” to carry again. There is no advantage to carrying. I thought they were stupid for many years but finally broke down and got one because everyone at my club, other than the head pro’s son, uses a push cart. My kids probably wouldn’t play if they had to carry their bags. 

[MB19]

12 hours ago, wildcatden said:

"For example, in Wolkodoff’s study, golfers scored lower while walking with a caddie or with their clubs on a push cart than they did when using a motorized cart. And golfers carrying a golf bag posted the highest average score."

 

https://onpar.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/a-little-scientific-research-for-all-those-19th-hole-debates/

 

 

This makes sense to me.

[kekoa]

I used to think only weenies used push carts until I tried one for my son.  It was a gamechanger especially with umbrella holder and ability to hold snacks/drinks.  When my son plays by himself, he wouldn't make it past the 3rd hole carrying, but does great pushing. 

[Soloman1]

I'm so old that they didn't have fancy pantsy pull carts that only really baaaad golfers would use. We carried our bags. Uphill. In the rain. No self-respecting player would be caught dead using a cart. If you wanted to see someone get teased mercilessly, watch as they used a "pull cart." None of this "push cart' nonsense. 🙂

 

 

 

Edited November 9, 2020 by Soloman1

[ConcernedBoutCOVID]

On 11/7/2020 at 9:06 PM, wildcatden said:

"For example, in Wolkodoff’s study, golfers scored lower while walking with a caddie or with their clubs on a push cart than they did when using a motorized cart. And golfers carrying a golf bag posted the highest average score."

 

https://onpar.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/a-little-scientific-research-for-all-those-19th-hole-debates/

 

 

exactly

 

I've also been reading about negative health impact (chronic back, neck shoulder problems) on kids carrying vs using a cart.  Everyone touts long term athletic development, what about long term health?

[Tannerbug33]

We are huge fans of push carts we have the clicgear 3.5. With.cooler and umbrella. Be careful not to get every attachment possible are you'll have it loaded down way to heavy.

 We have a friend that had the seat option he removed after 1st round. Actually take the cooler off for him on 1i8 holes to help lighten the load and carry a backpack cooler just toss him a water and snack every so often. Helps him remember to eat. He has such a hard time remembering that himself 

[tiger1873]

The only reason anyone doesn't use a pushcart is because they have to travel by airplane and couldn't pack it.   There is no reason not use one it gives you a huge advantage.  You can carry extra water and snacks when it hot and even extra rain gear and jackets if the weather could be an issue.

 

It doesn't take a person long to figure this out. I don't see many parents who caddy for their kids opt to carry it very long. It the first sign they are new to tournaments unless they actually travelled far to get there but even the Europeans parents pack the push cart.

[heavy_hitter]

On 11/7/2020 at 9:06 PM, wildcatden said:

"For example, in Wolkodoff’s study, golfers scored lower while walking with a caddie or with their clubs on a push cart than they did when using a motorized cart. And golfers carrying a golf bag posted the highest average score."

 

https://onpar.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/a-little-scientific-research-for-all-those-19th-hole-debates/

 

 

I think it is hogwash when it comes to scoring.  

[Golfingdawg19]

Some colleges have done studies on it and it amounted to almost two strokes difference when using pushcart. I think Stanford was the one who did it and they require their team to use it. 

[wildcatden]

3 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

I think it is hogwash when it comes to scoring.  

 

Sample size is certainly small in the study.

[tiger1873]

On 11/10/2020 at 10:08 PM, wildcatden said:

 

Sample size is certainly small in the study.

 

 

I think it really depends on the individual.  Back in the day before golf carts and push carts plenty of people had no problems walking without a push cart or caddie.   But we also used to dig ditches by a shovel too and now everyone uses a backhoe.  I personally don't think most kids are able to carry it 18 holes and not effect them in this day and age.

 

You do need to practice though without a pushcart and have a contingency in case it breaks or you can't travel with it.   It also not the end of the world if you have to carry for 18 holes. 

Edited November 12, 2020 by tiger1873

[ConcernedBoutCOVID]

On 11/10/2020 at 6:51 PM, heavy_hitter said:

I think it is hogwash when it comes to scoring.  

interesting - why do you think it doesn't matter?

[ConcernedBoutCOVID]

On 11/10/2020 at 12:28 PM, tiger1873 said:

The only reason anyone doesn't use a pushcart is because they have to travel by airplane and couldn't pack it.   There is no reason not use one it gives you a huge advantage.  You can carry extra water and snacks when it hot and even extra rain gear and jackets if the weather could be an issue.

 

It doesn't take a person long to figure this out. I don't see many parents who caddy for their kids opt to carry it very long. It the first sign they are new to tournaments unless they actually travelled far to get there but even the Europeans parents pack the push cart.

when I initially posted the question I was thinking more about the damage done to joints/back from practice and playing carrying a heavy golf bag for 4+ hours hundreds of times of year for many years; but I definitely think there seems to be an advantage in tournaments too

[tiger1873]

3 hours ago, ConcernedBoutCOVID said:

when I initially posted the question I was thinking more about the damage done to joints/back from practice and playing carrying a heavy golf bag for 4+ hours hundreds of times of year for many years; but I definitely think there seems to be an advantage in tournaments too

 

 Yes we all know there are issues in long term on the back and joints. But  honestly I don't think it should be such a huge concern because the wear and tear from swinging gol clubs is probaly a lot worse on the body then carrying  the clubs.

Edited November 13, 2020 by tiger1873

[heavy_hitter]

On 11/13/2020 at 10:46 AM, ConcernedBoutCOVID said:

interesting - why do you think it doesn't matter?

If it were that big of a deal you would see more people pushing winning and being more successful.  I don't see it.

 

As well, there are plenty of courses where it is just easier to carry than it is to push.  Courses with a lot of hills you spend more energy pushing a cart than you do carrying.  Wet course during rainy season in Florida it is easier to carry through the fairways than it is to push.

[MB19]

2 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

If it were that big of a deal you would see more people pushing winning and being more successful.  I don't see it.

 

As well, there are plenty of courses where it is just easier to carry than it is to push.  Courses with a lot of hills you spend more energy pushing a cart than you do carrying.  Wet course during rainy season in Florida it is easier to carry through the fairways than it is to push.

I'm waiting for it not to be wet season in FL.  I can't remember having this much rain during a calendar year.

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

Finally got my son to use one this year at the start.  He was in the camp of only sissy's use them.  After the first tournament he said I will never carry again.   He used to always be tired and sore the next few days.  15-18 of the 2nd he lacked power.  Huge difference.  Plus as someone mentioned he can carry an extra gatorade, snacks, and rain gear.

 

My daughter's cart has the umbrella, seat, and cooler.  She loves her 5 hour rounds.

[Hawkeye77]

First year my daughter went to substate/state golf she was still carrying, only one girl in the whole tournament had a push cart, and she trudged up and down a hilly course for two days, most of it in steady rain, lol.  Doc suggested she had some borderline back issues (thank goodness he was actually proven wrong on that eventually), I did some research and read up on some stuff the AJGA had out on the physicalbenefits, and I thought some events were requiring them or at least making them available.  That summer I gave her my push cart to try out - she never went back to carrying (and I swear her bag weighs more than two of mine, who knows what's in there).  Interestingly, the next year state golf was at the same course, another girl on her team also decided it was time to carry and other girls/parents started noticing them and a couple others with push carts.  Seemed to grow a little bit in general (and not because of her), but even by the time she graduated push carts were probably less than 10% of the kids.  She loved the freedom of not carrying and kept her fresh.  Got a kick out of her junior year at the state meet - it was unseasonably hot, still very few overall carrying, but midway through the first round the clubhouse ran out of carts because parents were buying what they had - most of the kids weren't used to walking 18 holes ever, and some were really struggling with the heat.  She still has my push cart, lol, though I did replace it. 

 

The whole thing also led to a health discussion of just how heavy of a backpack she and her sister each needed to be lugging to school every day.  I am still amazed at what my girls thought needed to be in those bags  -  they are not minimalists!

 

The benefits are really not disputable, but enough that everyone should push and not carry? Probably not in every individual case.  I carried pretty darn heavy bags when I was a kid and up until I was in my 30s and I don't have any back issues or any other issues because of it.  Still, the research on growing and developing spines is worth paying attention to.

Edited November 25, 2020 by Hawkeye77

[Golfingdawg19]

The research that I’ve seen is all in favor of using the pushcarts. The one study showed that it saved up to two shots a round by using the push cart. Really the only thing holding everyone from using the push carts is pride. The women’s teams almost all use them. The men’s teams are the ones that fight it because of the ego thing. I heard Chris Dimarco on the golf channel one day all but calling any male that used one a “sissy.” So at this point it isn’t about data from a study, its about pride with some folks. Dechambeau used one in college and you know he has analyzed everything trying to get an advantage. 

[tiger1873]

48 minutes ago, Golfingdawg19 said:

The research that I’ve seen is all in favor of using the pushcarts. The one study showed that it saved up to two shots a round by using the push cart. Really the only thing holding everyone from using the push carts is pride. The women’s teams almost all use them. The men’s teams are the ones that fight it because of the ego thing. I heard Chris Dimarco on the golf channel one day all but calling any male that used one a “sissy.” So at this point it isn’t about data from a study, its about pride with some folks. Dechambeau used one in college and you know he has analyzed everything trying to get an advantage. 

 

I don't doubt the strokes saved for most players especially for women golfers.  The thing is I have a hard time believing guys between 18-25 have any issues carrying there bags and that carrying them is costing them strokes. The only reason I could see a need for a push cart is if they are out of shape or injured in some way.  Honestly when I was that age I remember carrying my clubs and not thinking anything of it.  It some ways the cart would be a bigger issue then just carrying a bag and it will just get in the way. 

 

If you are not a guy between 18-25 you probably need a push cart because well compared them we are all sissy's.

 

Edited November 25, 2020 by tiger1873

[Abh159]

I don't think there is a big correlation between a pushcart and strokes gained. Until there is a more widespread study that accounts for a lot more players at different skill levels I just don't think the data can support that claim.

 

However, I do think it could help with overall fatigue especially with women players. When I was growing up no one used a push cart. They just weren't popular 10-15 years ago and had a pretty negative connotation associated with them. Even once I got to college when we were playing tournaments that were 36 holes / day we still all carried our bags. Granted we were all pretty exhausted at the end of the day, but I never felt that it had any effect on our scoring. 

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

I would ask what is the advantage of carrying a bag?  Seems a lot of focus on if there is an advantage to push carts.  What is the advantage of carrying?

 

[Abh159]

1 hour ago, TripleBogeysrbetter said:

I would ask what is the advantage of carrying a bag?  Seems a lot of focus on if there is an advantage to push carts.  What is the advantage of carrying?

 

 

Carrying vs riding? There have been a ton of studies done and just about all show that those who carry are typically a few shots lower than those who ride. 

 

Carrying vs pushcart? Until more research is done this is probably more of a personal preference. I prefer to carry. Maybe it's just because I grew up that way, but I don't really enjoy using a pushcart. I want to hear the "clack clack" of my irons as I walk down a fairway, I like being able to reach into my bag without having to stop and bend down, etc. Then again I don't find myself tired after I walk 18 holes and I've never had any major back problems so maybe I have an easier time carrying a bag than others. 

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

18 hours ago, Abh159 said:

 

Carrying vs riding? There have been a ton of studies done and just about all show that those who carry are typically a few shots lower than those who ride. 

 

Carrying vs pushcart? Until more research is done this is probably more of a personal preference. I prefer to carry. Maybe it's just because I grew up that way, but I don't really enjoy using a pushcart. I want to hear the "clack clack" of my irons as I walk down a fairway, I like being able to reach into my bag without having to stop and bend down, etc. Then again I don't find myself tired after I walk 18 holes and I've never had any major back problems so maybe I have an easier time carrying a bag than others. 

Never mentioned" Carrying vs riding?"

There have been a ton of studies done and just about all show that those who carry are typically a few shots lower than those who ride. 

 

I shoot my worst rounds in a cart.  You have no time to get enjoy or blow off some stream.  Some rounds it can be bad shot to bad shot.

 

"I like being able to reach into my bag without having to stop and bend down, etc."  How is this better with carry?  I am truly curious.  Most of the times I've watched.  The kids take the straps off the shoulders and bend slightly at the knees.  Picking up the bag they may have to dip and then pick up the bag.  With a cart there is no such movement is there?

[Abh159]

14 minutes ago, TripleBogeysrbetter said:

"I like being able to reach into my bag without having to stop and bend down, etc."  How is this better with carry? I am truly curious.  Most of the times I've watched.  The kids take the straps off the shoulders and bend slightly at the knees.  Picking up the bag they may have to dip and then pick up the bag.  With a cart there is no such movement is there?

 

Your wording is confusing, but I think you're trying to ask about picking up or setting you bag down when walking?? 

 

I was specifically talking about carrying while walking down the fairway, from green to tee, range to tee, and so on. When you carry you don't have to stop walking to grab a water bottle out of your bag, jot down the previous hole's scores, or grab a few tees from your bag pocket for example. That's not the case with a pushcart because you have to physically push the pushcart to move and that requires at least one free hand to do so. Therefore, you have to stop walking/pushing to do any of those things I mentioned above. It's a minor inconvenience, but that's why I said it is a personal preference and not a distinct advantage/disadvantage.

 

At the same time I never did find myself getting all that tired or sore from carrying a bag. Maybe that's because carrying was the only option then and myself and my friends were in better shape than kids today are. On the other hand if you (or your child) is someone who struggles to carry a bag for 18 holes then using a pushcart seems like a logical and smart solution. 

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

1 hour ago, Abh159 said:

 

 

 

"Maybe that's because carrying was the only option then and myself and my friends were in better shape than kids today are."

Generalize much? 

[Abh159]

50 minutes ago, TripleBogeysrbetter said:

Generalize much? 

 

According to the American Heart Association it takes kids 90+ seconds longer to run a mile today compared to kids the same age in 1990, and heart-related fitness has declined over 15% percent since then for kids age 9 - 17. So generally speaking I would say, yes, kids today are less physically fit than their parents were at the same age.

 

Unfortunately, it's not just kids though. Adult physical fitness is declining at almost the same rate. As I sit in front of a computer typing this I'm ironically reminded that we could all benefit from spending less time in front of the tv/computer and more time being physically active. 

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

1 minute ago, Abh159 said:

 

According to the American Heart Association it takes kids 90+ seconds longer to run a mile today compared to kids the same age in 1990, and heart-related fitness has declined over 15% percent since then for kids age 9 - 17. So generally speaking I would say, yes, kids today are less physically fit than their parents were at the same age.

 

Unfortunately, it's not just kids though. Adult physical fitness is declining at almost the same rate. As I sit in front of a computer typing this I'm ironically reminded that we could all benefit from spending less time in front of the tv/computer and more time being physically active. 

I am forced for at least 8 hours a day to look at a PC.  After 4pm or vacation you won't catch me on one.  I get what you're saying and agree.  I am  blessed that all of my kids are fitness nuts.  The oldest and middle son (golfer) is always in the COVID Crossfit Garage gym.  They're out there for about 1-2 hours a day.