Driver conundrum: recommendations appreciated

[Jmccas]

I’ve started playing again after a 15 year hiatus. I’m currently gaming the G400 (non Max). My swing speed averages 95 MPH, low spin and tend to miss left with some snap hooks thrown in there. I’m fairly awful with the G400. I’ve never hit it well. I’ve tried the stiff and regular Alta CB shaft with no luck. To be fair, the driver has always been my least favorite club even when I used to play a lot. I think I need to make a change. 

 

I hit a G425 Max at a Ping demo day and I hit it better with the weight in the toe but it was not great. 

 

I recently snagged a Maverick 4W that I hit really well (which surprised me because I found out it’s draw biased). I think I like the smaller head size. 

 

Honestly I think it’s the heavier mass in the Ping driver head that throws me off. I hit a TS2 today and it was better but not great. Ultimately I think I’d be better off with a smaller  sized driver. Any recommendations?

[Tree Levino]

It's likely not the size - the G400 (445cc) is actually smaller than the TS2 (460cc).  Ping have really high head weights. That isn't the best for some, but realistically, I'd just work with a pro and I bet you could start striping that - it's an awesome driver. Personally I do better with slightly lighter head weight in my driver so I like Callaways. Best to keep demoing and get some lessons. 

[jeffrey r]

From that description, sounds like the standard Callaway Mavrik would be right up your alley.  Looks compact, though full size head.  Very forgiving, and pretty low spin.  I never liked the G400 either (do like the G400 Max though), but loved the Mavrik.  YMMV.

[XHoop24]

For me, I’ve always struggled with Ping heads from g25 till now. I slice and struggle with an open club face on the downswing. I’ve always done better with smaller club heads that are a bit easier to close. I’ve played best with Titleist 913D3 and now playing decent with Srixon z785 which is similar shape. Just some food for thought. 

[PEI_Golfer]

I'll echo what TITW said in setting up a couple lessons to try and get things sorted out.  The G400 was a fantastic head, maybe just the CB shafts aren't working out for you, but as this isn't just a problem with the G400, but a 'you' problem as you've stated from past performance. 

 

Might be time to work on that for long term gains rather than searching for a band-aid for a short term solution.  Besides, after 15 years away, you can't expect to just pick up where you possibly left things.  

Edited March 8, 2021 by PEI_Golfer

[Jmccas]

1 hour ago, TigerInTheWoods said:

It's likely not the size - the G400 (445cc) is actually smaller than the TS2 (460cc).  Ping have really high head weights. That isn't the best for some, but realistically, I'd just work with a pro and I bet you could start striping that - it's an awesome driver. Personally I do better with slightly lighter head weight in my driver so I like Callaways. Best to keep demoing and get some lessons. 

Yeah, when I came back to the game I signed up for lessons. Had four lessons and noted improvement with my irons and we worked on driver a bit. Better but really inconsistent. Then the snow birds descended to FL and I haven’t been able to resume my paid in advance lessons because I work during the week and his Saturdays are booked solid. I’m having to schedule lessons two months in advance and my appointment got rained out yesterday. Next one is four weeks away. 
 

I definitely think it’s me, not the G400. But I have noticed I prefer lighter heads on irons and I think that extends to my driver. 

[Jmccas]

1 hour ago, XHoop24 said:

For me, I’ve always struggled with Ping heads from g25 till now. I slice and struggle with an open club face on the downswing. I’ve always done better with smaller club heads that are a bit easier to close. I’ve played best with Titleist 913D3 and now playing decent with Srixon z785 which is similar shape. Just some food for thought. 

I think I have a similar problem but I close the G400 head at impact. I used to eschew the driver in favor of an old TM Burner 3 wood. I used to bomb that thing. 

[PEI_Golfer]

54 minutes ago, Jmccas said:

I think I have a similar problem but I close the G400 head at impact. I used to eschew the driver in favor of an old TM Burner 3 wood. I used to bomb that thing. 

 

 

Take the head weight out of the G400 and see what it is (just assuming its going to be the 12g).  It's a cheap experiment is picking up one of the lighter weights and put that in and take it for a spin.

Edited March 8, 2021 by PEI_Golfer

[Blackett]

Why not use the 4w off the tee for the time being and work on the driver until you are more consistent.  Lessons and practice will go a long way and the driver requires plenty of both 

[Cwebb]

2 hours ago, PEI_Golfer said:

 

 

Take the head weight out of the G400 and see what it is (just assuming its going to be the 12g).  It's a cheap experiment is picking up one of the lighter weights and put that in and take it for a spin.

 

Absolutely.  If the head weight is too heavy, it can completely throw off our timing and the results are terrible.

 

Odds are that the fairway wood that he likes, swings much lighter

[Jmccas]

10 hours ago, PEI_Golfer said:

 

 

Take the head weight out of the G400 and see what it is (just assuming its going to be the 12g).  It's a cheap experiment is picking up one of the lighter weights and put that in and take it for a spin.

Excellent idea. Thank you for the suggestion. 

[Jmccas]

10 hours ago, Blackett said:

Why not use the 4w off the tee for the time being and work on the driver until you are more consistent.  Lessons and practice will go a long way and the driver requires plenty of both 

I am playing today and that’s my plan. If I can’t get the driver worked out, I might pick up a strong 3W. 

[IPA4Me]

Having gone through similar issues, adjusting my driver 1 degree really made a difference.  Opened the toe, better fitting my club path.  Didn't mind the less loft - just gave me more roll.

[me05501]

I kind of went through the same thing a couple seasons ago and I can tell you what helped me out. I bought a TaylorMade SLDR 14* Mini Driver and used that as my tee club for an entire season.

 

That club was such an automatic fairway finder for me that I rarely missed the fairway at all, and normally my ball was only about 20 yards short of my partners (assuming they hit the fairway, which they often didn't). I focused on the rest of my game as I re-learned the short game shots that had gotten rusty during the years I didn't play. 

 

Using the Mini Driver allowed me to quickly "check the box" of getting safely off the tee on par fours and par fives so I could learn to score again.

 

Gradually as I gained confidence I found a driver I liked and replaced the MD in my bag, but I kept it around. I recently loaned it to one of my playing buddies and he's had the same experience with it. High, long draws. Point and shoot. Rather amazing actually.  

 

 

[phizzy30]

I will second CWebb.  My driver and 3 metal are both D5 swing weight now.  Previously played D4 in driver and have gone as light as D3.  I didn't realize how much looser I was off the tee until I was sent a temporary replacement head which weighed 200 grams.  Came out to D5 paired with my Ventus Black.  No distance loss and my dispersion pattern is tighter.  Mess around with the weight screw until you find the right weight.  Good luck OP. 

[Myherobobhope]

I'd agree with others that headweight is an issue, and someone mentioned counter balanced shafts... I like to think of myself as a fairly good driver, and if you hand me a counter balanced shaft, I'm simply not going to be able to adjust to it... I've successfully hit senior flex drivers all the way through to rebar shafts and been able to make it work... 

 

That popular hazardous shaft that everyone loves? I broke my pros 2 iron in three swings with it... 

 

What shaft is in the MAVRIK? See if you can try that shaft in your driver or a demo driver... There is plenty to be said about lessons and swing weights, but you "should" be able to hit a driver with a heavy head... You can also try choking up on the driver and seeing if a shorter shaft might work better for you. 

 

This isn't an OR problem... it's not your OR the driver that's not working... it's this driver doesn't work for you... Whether you can fix that with lessons or fix that with buying a new driver is the question... Just start eliminating variables until you figure out what isn't working. 

[PEI_Golfer]

49 minutes ago, Myherobobhope said:

This isn't an OR problem... it's not your OR the driver that's not working... it's this driver doesn't work for you... Whether you can fix that with lessons or fix that with buying a new driver is the question... Just start eliminating variables until you figure out what isn't working. 

 

This isn't even 'hot take' worthy.  After 15 years away, it is likely that nothing is working at even close to optimally.  Just going out to find a driver that currently masks swing issues as you get back into things is a waste of money and it may not be the right thing in a couple months when things settle in and become more consistent.

[Myherobobhope]

8 minutes ago, PEI_Golfer said:

 

This isn't even 'hot take' worthy.  After 15 years away, it is likely that nothing is working at even close to optimally.  Just going out to find a driver that currently masks swing issues as you get back into things is a waste of money and it may not be the right thing in a couple months when things settle in and become more consistent.

Eh, a new driver won't hurt much if he buys one that isn't super draw biased or offset...  Generically, I'm just in favor of taking the time to figure out why something isn't working, as it teaches you more about your golf swing and tendencies. Even if you are just getting back, it's worth finding out why something isn't working. You can then at least figure out if a fix will be short term or long term... 

[PEI_Golfer]

19 minutes ago, Myherobobhope said:

Eh, a new driver won't hurt much if he buys one that isn't super draw biased or offset...  Generically, I'm just in favor of taking the time to figure out why something isn't working, as it teaches you more about your golf swing and tendencies. Even if you are just getting back, it's worth finding out why something isn't working. You can then at least figure out if a fix will be short term or long term... 

 

The why is simple, it is both a long lay over and the fact they didn't have confidence in the drivers in the past, which all point to user error at this time.  Learning about his swing will obviously be teaching him about his swing and current tendencies.  Just buying a driver doesn't do that at all.

 

To further this, maybe not engaging legs enough or improper weight shift, has poor rotation, changes transition or doesn't release the club head (tho it is likely not the current issue).  If he is reasonably fit with ok mechanics, this could unlock another 10-12 mph chs as he progresses creating another potential issue wrt to shaft choice of this new driver to mask a current issue.

 

Buying something new for the sake of buying something new will just lead to another thread shortly of 'I bought a new driver to fix an issue and now it doesn't work as I've improved my swing and don't have that issue anymore'.  Unless the G400 has somehow been out for 15 years now, it seems almost as though he's tried this venture and found out it doesn't work.

Edited March 8, 2021 by PEI_Golfer

[Myherobobhope]

5 minutes ago, PEI_Golfer said:

The why is simple, it is both a long lay over and the fact they didn't have confidence in the drivers in the past, which all point to user error at this time.  Learning about his swing will obviously be teaching him about his swing and current tendencies.  Just buying a driver doesn't do that at all.

Maybe I didn't explain myself clearly.

 

It might be an issue with the driver, it might be an issue with the swing, it might be an issue of the swing with that driver... OP simply doesn't know what is currently wrong with his driver, and isn't hitting it well and isn't confident with it. He doesn't have access to his teaching pro, and thus needs to start working on a self fix.

 

Just buying a new driver isn't going to fix anything. Learning swing mechanics, figuring out why the current driver isn't working, and looking at driver variables will all help improve both short and long term. There very well could be an issue with the current driver that makes it harder to make a successful swing with. As stated previously, no matter how well I'm swinging, I can't hit a counterbalanced shaft. 

 

The first step to figuring out what's wrong with his driver is to figure out what he's doing wrong, and why... there are some technology solutions that can help address the problems, but there are likely some technical problems as well... The fact that he can hit a 4w successfully shows that he's capable of hitting a longer wood.

[PEI_Golfer]

Being able to hit the next shortest club from driver while not being able to hit driver isn't a new thing.  Generally it's the shorter shaft and heavier weight.  People often have better tempo and are less aggressive with that club in hands vs. a driver.  I'll say again, buying a new driver on a whim won't solve these issues unless it is some miraculous purchase where the stars align and it is right.  

 

I'm all for waiting a couple of months until more practice time and work with an instructor can take place.  In the grand scheme of things, it's not that long when looking at the time that was just taken away from golf.  The OP basically laid it out that he is likely at fault for the past and current issues and yet you've glossed over this a number of times to take the position of 'do something, anything, regardless', which isn't productive.

Edited March 8, 2021 by PEI_Golfer

[Myherobobhope]

19 hours ago, Jmccas said:

I’ve started playing again after a 15 year hiatus. I’m currently gaming the G400 (non Max). My swing speed averages 95 MPH, low spin and tend to miss left with some snap hooks thrown in there. I’m fairly awful with the G400. I’ve never hit it well. I’ve tried the stiff and regular Alta CB shaft with no luck. To be fair, the driver has always been my least favorite club even when I used to play a lot. I think I need to make a change. 

 

I hit a G425 Max at a Ping demo day and I hit it better with the weight in the toe but it was not great. 

 

I recently snagged a Maverick 4W that I hit really well (which surprised me because I found out it’s draw biased). I think I like the smaller head size. 

 

Honestly I think it’s the heavier mass in the Ping driver head that throws me off. I hit a TS2 today and it was better but not great. Ultimately I think I’d be better off with a smaller  sized driver. Any recommendations?

I don't think a smaller head is going to be the answer. There is a reason most drivers are 460cc.

 

Head weight might be an issue, but it looks like you are trying the club without the weights to see if that helps.

 

The shafts might be an issue. What shaft do you have in the 4w? If possible, trying that shaft in a driver might help add some control.

 

Lessons will obviously help, but those are a few weeks off... You say you don't have any confidence in the driver, and that's a place I've been before. It's not fun. I got out of it by swinging harder, and focusing on just HITTING the ball (basically, I tried to clear all negative thoughts and let my "athletic brain" take over). This doesn't work for everyone. In the 4 weeks you have before your lesson, it's worth experimenting. Especially if you can get on a launch monitor.

 

Learning your path numbers, club face numbers and everything else can guide you towards improving your swing... There are simple ideas (Adam Young's "Hammer the Nail" drill is awesome... basically, just envision a nail through your target line on the ball, and try to drive the nail through that... there are lots of reason why it helps, but it can also just be a simple drill to focus your attention) and then you can get into more complicated practice ideas. If you aren't confident with the driver, and aren't hitting it well, it's hard to make BAD changes. Just play around with stuff and see what works for you, and then talk about it with your pro in 4 weeks.

 

Good luck!

[JAM01]

I suppose if it were me, 3 or 4 wood off the tee would be a temporary move to build back some confidence, but I’d eventually go to a forgiving 460 cc head with a 44 1/2 inch shaft. I’d also look at something with a decent amount of adjustability. That said I play a Ping G410. I tinkered with lower weights and realized that the possible swing speed distance gains suffered from even a small loss of mass. 

[Jmccas]

9 hours ago, IPA4Me said:

Having gone through similar issues, adjusting my driver 1 degree really made a difference.  Opened the toe, better fitting my club path.  Didn't mind the less loft - just gave me more roll.

I’ve tried every setting with the driver. Nothing seems to be the magic pill. Probably between the ears. 

[PJE]

Standard Ping G400 drivers with the Alta shaft  are 45.75 inches long. I hit mine far but not always straight. 

I cut my G400 to 45.25  and installed a heavier Ping OEM weight I bought from Golf Works to maintain the swingweight, and I hit it much straighter and pretty much just as long with the shorter shaft. It might be 2-3 yards shorter on some swings and on other swings the same as before or even longer by the same margin. In other words, pretty much the same distance but straighter.

 

[Jmccas]

8 hours ago, Myherobobhope said:

I'd agree with others that headweight is an issue, and someone mentioned counter balanced shafts... I like to think of myself as a fairly good driver, and if you hand me a counter balanced shaft, I'm simply not going to be able to adjust to it... I've successfully hit senior flex drivers all the way through to rebar shafts and been able to make it work... 

 

That popular hazardous shaft that everyone loves? I broke my pros 2 iron in three swings with it... 

 

What shaft is in the MAVRIK? See if you can try that shaft in your driver or a demo driver... There is plenty to be said about lessons and swing weights, but you "should" be able to hit a driver with a heavy head... You can also try choking up on the driver and seeing if a shorter shaft might work better for you. 

 

This isn't an OR problem... it's not your OR the driver that's not working... it's this driver doesn't work for you... Whether you can fix that with lessons or fix that with buying a new driver is the question... Just start eliminating variables until you figure out what isn't working. 

Thanks for the response. I kinda believe what you said - I should be able to hit the driver, at least mediocrely well.  
 

I played today using only my 4W off the tee and hit every fairway but one (the only miss was where I clicked the 4W 260 yards and rolled into a water hazard crossing the fairway. I’m not complaining about the miss. 
 

I definitely think I’m going to try and experiment with shafts and changing weights. I also think I need to be properly

fit into a driver. 

[Jmccas]

Adding on the 4W is shafted with the UST Mamiya Helium Black 5. 
 

Yesterday at the range I was trying to apply the same 4W concepts to the driver. I also tried the old “grip it and rip it” concept. Just didn’t work. Took some Dr. Scholls (spelling?) and I was hitting center to high center most of the time. The weighting seems to be the issue for me. I feel like I’m rolling the face closed as I make contact. 
 

No knock against the G400 - everyone raves about it so It’s definitely me. But that being said, it just may not work for me. I was hitting the TS2 at a local Golf Galaxy and I don’t feel comfortable hitting inside their bays. 
 

I’m not going to buy anything anytime soon. Might buy a strong 3W (Maverick with the same shaft) and eventually work my way up to driver. We’ll see though - I’m in no rush if I can hit the 4W like I did today.