Jump to content

Driver spin too low…


pghgolfer
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hey all, hoping this is in the right place. I need some ideas for the driver.

 

I’m currently playing a Mavrik subzero 9.0 + 1 degree, neutral with a VA vylyn 65 05 (x flex shaft), heavy weight in the back. The outcome is a shot that is shapable, fairly low, and falls out of the sky due to spin being 1600-1900 rpm (1/10 will be >2000).

 

I switched to the VA vylyn (high launch) because I’ve always struggled with a low driver flight, and I wanted to increase carry. Over the last few months, I’ve increased my angle of attack from -2 to +5 with this driver, also dropping the spin. 
 

I’ve tried all settings with the movable weight, and hosel, but spin remains too low. Any thoughts on a way to increase my spin to help improve my carry number?

 

club head speed approx 107

Ball speeds mid to high 150s

angle of attack +3-5

path and face both positive, usually slight draw 

spin 1500-1900

launch angle 12-13


thanks in advance!! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Only three real ways.

 

1. Play a spinner ball. 

2. Add more loft to the driver. Not via the adapter, but a higher lofted head.

3. Reduce your angle of attack. This should help you get some more spin loft.

 

I'm assuming here that your impact location is reasonably centered and not overly high on the face.

  • Like 1

Cobra RAD Speed 9* : KBS TD 70 Cat 3 / Ventus Blue 6-S

Cobra RAD Speed 3W : Graphite Design AD TP8-S

Srixon ZXU #2 : Nippon Modus 3 120-S

Wilson Staff CB 4-PW : Nippon Modus3 120-S

Cleveland Zipcore 50, 54: Nippon Modus2 120/125 S 

Cobra MIM Black 58 : Nippon 125 Wedge

Piretti Potenza 370g : Breakthrough Technology Stability Shaft - 34"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, jvincent said:

Only three real ways.

 

1. Play a spinner ball. 

2. Add more loft to the driver. Not via the adapter, but a higher lofted head.

3. Reduce your angle of attack. This should help you get some more spin loft.

 

I'm assuming here that your impact location is reasonably centered and not overly high on the face.

Thanks for the reply. I forgot about trying a higher lofted HEAD as opposed to adaptor change. Do you think a different head would be more effective than a high spinning shaft?

 

Id prefer to avoid more swing changes because things are looking pretty good right now. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1) +5° Attack Angle is absolutely insane and I honestly think that might be the first thing you should address, try moving ball slightly further back in your stance to get it to like 1° or 2°

2) Launch Angle is p good so don't change that

3) Honestly try and test out a regular Callaway Mavrik. In addition to the profile of the Sub-Zero model having a smaller profile, its also designed to be low spin which is definitely playing a factor in your low spin #'s

 

 

I don't think you need to make any swing changes because your hitting a consistent shot shape and it seems like you're striking it well; the ball just isn't coming out in the window you want it to. If worst comes to worst just go get fitted or track down a demo day and i'm sure you'll find a setup that works well for you

  • Like 3

Driver: PING G400 LST 10° w/ Miyazaki C. Kua 59X Tour Issue

3 Wood: Titleist TS2 15° (@ 14.25°, A4 SureFit Setting) w/ Graphite Design Tour AD DI 8-X

5 Wood: Titleist TS2 18° (@ 18°, D4 SureFit Setting) w/ Graphite Design Tour AD DI 8-X

Irons: TaylorMade P760 (4-PW) w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100

Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52°-12, 56°-13), Titleist Vokey SM7 Tour Issue (60°-04L) w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Onyx Wedge S400

Putter: TaylorMade TP Collection Ardmore 2 "L Neck"

 

Grips: Golf Pride New Decade Multi-Compound Midsize, Winn Dri-Tac X Putter

Ball: Titleist AVX

Bag: Titleist Linksmaster

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, CKaneb said:

1) +5° Attack Angle is absolutely insane and I honestly think that might be the first thing you should address, try moving ball slightly further back in your stance to get it to like 1° or 2°

2) Launch Angle is p good so don't change that

3) Honestly try and test out a regular Callaway Mavrik. In addition to the profile of the Sub-Zero model having a smaller profile, its also designed to be low spin which is definitely playing a factor in your low spin #'s

 

 

I don't think you need to make any swing changes because your hitting a consistent shot shape and it seems like you're striking it well; the ball just isn't coming out in the window you want it to. If worst comes to worst just go get fitted or track down a demo day and i'm sure you'll find a setup that works well for you

Good idea. I ended up in the subzero because my miss is left, and that head is about as flat as it gets if I understand that correctly. Maybe a standard Mavrik with a red dot adaptor or something like that. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, pghgolfer said:

Thanks for the reply. I forgot about trying a higher lofted HEAD as opposed to adaptor change. Do you think a different head would be more effective than a high spinning shaft?

 

Id prefer to avoid more swing changes because things are looking pretty good right now. 

 

You quoted @jvincent mentioning "Play a spinnier ball" but you still haven't told us what ball you play.

 

That aside I also have a positive AoA. I'm about 10-12 mph below you though. With the Mavrik SZ I had no trouble getting the ball up in the air to 15* or so but couldn't generate even 2,000 rpm with the Mavrik SZ. 

 

I tried the Mavrik Max as well - same thing.

 

A guy I play with fairly often was playing a Ping G30 driver and it wasn't going anywhere. I expect it was spinning too much. He switched to the Mavrik and gained about 30 yards (total). The lower spin helped him; hurt me. Dunno1.gif

  • Like 1

Callaway Epic Flash SZ Hzrdus Yellow HC 6.0 Stiff

Ping G425 14.5 Fairway Tour AD TP

Adams Idea Pro 20* Aldila Stiff

Ping G20, 5-PW, DGS300 Yellow Dot

Ping Glide Forged, 48, 52, 60, DGS300

Cally PM Grind 56 KBS Tour 115

LAB Directed Force (Today)

Titleist ProV1x

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

You quoted @jvincent mentioning "Play a spinnier ball" but you still haven't told us what ball you play.

 

That aside I also have a positive AoA. I'm about 10-12 mph below you though. With the Mavrik SZ I had no trouble getting the ball up in the air to 15* or so but couldn't generate even 2,000 rpm with the Mavrik SZ. 

 

I tried the Mavrik Max as well - same thing.

 

A guy I play with fairly often was playing a Ping G30 driver and it wasn't going anywhere. I expect it was spinning too much. He switched to the Mavrik and gained about 30 yards (total). The lower spin helped him; hurt me. Dunno1.gif


That’s right. I play either prov1x or srixon z star (I play better with z star). Interesting you had trouble with the Mavrik max as well, maybe I should just do another fitting and try a different product line all together now that the swing is a bit different… 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, pghgolfer said:


That’s right. I play either prov1x or srixon z star (I play better with z star). Interesting you had trouble with the Mavrik max as well, maybe I should just do another fitting and try a different product line all together now that the swing is a bit different… 

 

I went from a negative AoA to a positive one. Had a bad swing flaw for many years. Fixed it about 7 years or so ago and I now drive it much better with the upward AoA. Lowered my spin from almost 4,000 to around 2,200.

 

I confess I didn't put a whole lot of time in on the Mavriks - only the 1 session. And you can't get much spinnier than the ProV1x so since you seem happy with your swing that leaves tweaking the shaft.

 

I'm not familiar with the VA shaft you're hitting but if it's a low launch low spinner you might want to try something mid-mid. PGATSS still has Mavrik heads so perhaps you could demo the Mavrik head with a few different shafts with them.

 

My 2019 Epic Flash SZ is the bomb for me. 2200 rpm, 14-16* launch and very consistent with a Tour AD TP or Hzrdus Yellow.

 

Haven't tried the current Epic Speed heads though. More so for the fact that I don't think I can get any better numbers than what I'm currently getting. Might be able to find a bit better dispersion but distance-wise ? Can't beat what I've got.

 

Good luck.

Callaway Epic Flash SZ Hzrdus Yellow HC 6.0 Stiff

Ping G425 14.5 Fairway Tour AD TP

Adams Idea Pro 20* Aldila Stiff

Ping G20, 5-PW, DGS300 Yellow Dot

Ping Glide Forged, 48, 52, 60, DGS300

Cally PM Grind 56 KBS Tour 115

LAB Directed Force (Today)

Titleist ProV1x

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, pghgolfer said:

Hey all, hoping this is in the right place. I need some ideas for the driver.

 

I’m currently playing a Mavrik subzero 9.0 + 1 degree, neutral with a VA vylyn 65 05 (x flex shaft), heavy weight in the back. The outcome is a shot that is shapable, fairly low, and falls out of the sky due to spin being 1600-1900 rpm (1/10 will be >2000).

 

I switched to the VA vylyn (high launch) because I’ve always struggled with a low driver flight, and I wanted to increase carry. Over the last few months, I’ve increased my angle of attack from -2 to +5 with this driver, also dropping the spin. 
 

I’ve tried all settings with the movable weight, and hosel, but spin remains too low. Any thoughts on a way to increase my spin to help improve my carry number?

 

club head speed approx 107

Ball speeds mid to high 150s

angle of attack +3-5

path and face both positive, usually slight draw 

spin 1500-1900

launch angle 12-13


thanks in advance!! 

What is your angle of descent? If it is optimal which I think is in the low to mid 40's (correct me if I'm wrong) then there is a version of the Mizuno RB Tour golf ball that may bump up your spin so that you can keep everything else the same as you appear to be producing some good numbers and I'm sure your carry numbers are good.  If your angle of descent numbers are slightly off then you could adjust loft on your driver but you should be able to find a remedy pretty quickly to bump up your spin and keep the ball in the air a lil longer.  Best of luck in your testing. 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:


Descent angle alone is "not that good" of a judgement, but we say that a good mix of carry and total have a descent of 40* with the driver. (Bubba Watson has 44*, and by that too little roll out).

i prefer to judge it all from a fairway with good roll out, and use the formula "Roll out / total" to get roll out as a % of total distance.

For a player who has 100 mph club speed, and optimized PTR value (smash-factor), his IDEAL mix of launch angle and spin (no matter what launch angle is), is when roll out is 11% of total. Look at this chart and you can see how that goes down.

1913007847_150mphballspeedchart.JPG.23818d001ea72ff1ab8c481ec606f2da.JPG

For 110 mph club speed, or 165 ball speed if you like, "the magic number" is 10% roll out, still fully independent of launch angle, so its simply a certain spin value related to the actual launch angle we should look at.

1560530507_165ballspeedchart.JPG.641bdc16caa92e8bdb45cd7781db61ef.JPG

So, from 100 mph club speed, the "magic number" is 11%
and from 110 mph club speed, the "magic number" is 10%

Guess what it is from 90 mph club speed? correct, it becomes 12%, and from 120 it becomes 9%

Having that said, if we use 40* as "ideal descent" we will hardly ever find that to be optimum for a SLOW swinger like 90 mph or below, he is better of with 36*, since 40* will rob him for roll out, and if we wants to tweak descent angle, it takes 143 rpms to move that up and down by 1*

That means the 90 mpg player who has 36 of descent, needs 4 x 143 rpm = 572 rpm MORE spin to get to 40*, and thats why he will loose roll out, and want be able to get his roll out factor to become 12% or total. 

I wasn't going off that factor alone I was just wondering what his was to see if his launch angle was too high or too low and maybe robbing him of some optimal carry and roll out.  But the info you provided is fantastic and better points us in the right direction and gets straight to the point so much appreciated on that.  I think I was going to get to the same answer but it would have taken longer whereas this chart just goes straight to the answer. Thanks. R to L

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

I wasn't going off that factor alone I was just wondering what his was to see if his launch angle was too high or too low and maybe robbing him of some optimal carry and roll out.  But the info you provided is fantastic and better points us in the right direction and gets straight to the point so much appreciated on that.  I think I was going to get to the same answer but it would have taken longer whereas this chart just goes straight to the answer. Thanks. R to L



This illustration shows how launch and spin vary depending on impact position.
The OPs Smash factor vary a little and is below optimized (not much but).
The chart is made using a player with 100 mph club speed, and the OP seems to make impact on the BLUE club speed line (107 mph x 1.48 = 158 ball speed), and a tad too high.

If he can move impact against the toe side by half an inch +, and in his case DOWN by 2/8" he will be "golden" and see smash factors of 1.50-1.52 (107 x 1.51 = 162 mph ball speed and spin of about 2000) and a launch that only goes down about 0.65-0.7

For each 1/8" we move impact up or down, spin changes average with 240 rpm and launch angle with average 0.35* so 2/8" lower will give him close to 500 rpm more spin, and launch goes down with 0.65-0.7. If he moved impact from the heel side axis (the BLUE line), to the GREEN line, he will optimize his number.

That means all it takes is to move impact position, he dont need a new shaft / head or anything, just lower the tee a little, and address the ball more against the toe side and rip it like he does now.

66679567_Impactpositionandreturnvalues.JPG.fa8278a71d54e30c16797cc44c6c058a.JPG
 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:



This illustration shows how launch and spin vary depending on impact position.
The OPs Smash factor vary a little and is below optimized (not much but).
The chart is made using a player with 100 mph club speed, and the OP seems to make impact on the BLUE club speed line (107 mph x 1.48 = 158 ball speed), and a tad too high.

If he can move impact against the toe side by half an inch +, and in his case DOWN by 2/8" he will be "golden" and see smash factors of 1.50-1.52 (107 x 1.51 = 162 mph ball speed and spin of about 2000) and a launch that only goes down about 0.65-0.7

For each 1/8" we move impact up or down, spin changes average with 240 rpm and launch angle with average 0.35* so 2/8" lower will give him close to 500 rpm more spin, and launch goes down with 0.65-0.7. If he moved impact from the heel side axis (the BLUE line), to the GREEN line, he will optimize his number.

That means all it takes is to move impact position, he dont need a new shaft / head or anything, just lower the tee a little, and address the ball more against the toe side and rip it like he does now.

66679567_Impactpositionandreturnvalues.JPG.fa8278a71d54e30c16797cc44c6c058a.JPG
 

Fantastic information.  I completely agree that he doesn't need to make any equipment changes and I completely agree that strike is boss first and foremost as proven by your chart provided. You are a wealth of knowledge for sure! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:



After i confronted Trackman with the datas from my own research in 2011, they admitted that SPIN LOFT is a "lab term" where we need a robot who can make impact at the same spot every time to make it useful, but since we are humans, and our variable is more than plus minus 1/8" we will ALWAYS overrule any possible effect from spin loft real life, since the actual ruler of spin IS vertical gear effects.

I made it all available for the public in September 2013, not as a "debunk" of Trackmans Spin loft, but as a guideline for how to tune up your own driver in the tread called DIY DRIVER TUNE UP, who has more than 140.000 readers by now. Many of the replies form the readers tells about improvements of 30 yards plus to carry (with the driver they got), so we dont really need to know how all this goes down, just follow this step by step instructions anyone can do without the need for any advanced tools at all, not even a launch monitor.
 

 

Wow, thanks so much for all the input. I’m not sure if we are still interested in land angle, but mine is 32-34. I would say that I am certainly on the low ball side as opposed to high side.

 

I have to go through your driver tune up for sure! The data definitely makes sense, but I find if I hit the ball lower on the face it simply doesn’t launch high enough. I currently strike either center, or towards the toe, mid to high face height. I will definitely give a tee down trial before doing any equipment changes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, pghgolfer said:

Wow, thanks so much for all the input. I’m not sure if we are still interested in land angle, but mine is 32-34. I would say that I am certainly on the low ball side as opposed to high side.

 

I have to go through your driver tune up for sure! The data definitely makes sense, but I find if I hit the ball lower on the face it simply doesn’t launch high enough. I currently strike either center, or towards the toe, mid to high face height. I will definitely give a tee down trial before doing any equipment changes.


Like i wrote above, 1/8" is 240 rpm, and 2/8" becomes 480 rpm
Since it takes 143 rpm to change descent by 1*, we have 480 / 143 = 3.35* steeper descent by lowering impact only 2/8" on the face. (average 33 now + 3 = 36*...still low but...)
If you manage to get a a few more mph ball speed, the ball will climb to a higher Apex before it starts to drop who will add a little to descent, so it dont take much from where you are now to get really good numbers.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Snowman9000 said:

It sure sounds like you simply need more loft.


Probably yes, but since his smash factor is as low as 1.44 to 1.48 he should start by optimizing ball speed. Then we can look at launch and spin and see if there is more to get by adding loft an launch.
At the moment his spin values is way to low for the launch angle he has, but since impact vary a little against the bad side, thats where we should start before we judge the other numbers, they WILL change....

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:


The GREEN fields is MAXIMIZED CARRY for the actual launch angle

1913007847_150mphballspeedchart.JPG.23818d001ea72ff1ab8c481ec606f2da.JPG

1560530507_165ballspeedchart.JPG.641bdc16caa92e8bdb45cd7781db61ef.JPG

So, from 100 mph club speed, the "magic number" is 11%
and from 110 mph club speed, the "magic number" is 10%
 

Howard, so much good stuff here. Question though. Only focusing on the Carry totals you highlight, we see the 11% rule maximizing carry, however if we look at the total distance of carry and rollout we see that the lowest spin value always produces the greatest total distance at any LA.

Are we saying that the roll out measurements are not accurate or consistent enough to be concerned about here or is it just a matter of landing angle not being as important when compared to spin rate especially at the slower 150 ball speeds?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, pghgolfer said:

Good idea. I ended up in the subzero because my miss is left, and that head is about as flat as it gets if I understand that correctly. Maybe a standard Mavrik with a red dot adaptor or something like that. 

I'm very unfamiliar with Callaway drivers because i'm not the biggest fan of them personally, but most OEM's these days have the ability to flatten the lie angle by playing around w the shaft sleeve. I know for a fact that Titleist and PING have the ability to do that so I assume Callaway does as well

Driver: PING G400 LST 10° w/ Miyazaki C. Kua 59X Tour Issue

3 Wood: Titleist TS2 15° (@ 14.25°, A4 SureFit Setting) w/ Graphite Design Tour AD DI 8-X

5 Wood: Titleist TS2 18° (@ 18°, D4 SureFit Setting) w/ Graphite Design Tour AD DI 8-X

Irons: TaylorMade P760 (4-PW) w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100

Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52°-12, 56°-13), Titleist Vokey SM7 Tour Issue (60°-04L) w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Onyx Wedge S400

Putter: TaylorMade TP Collection Ardmore 2 "L Neck"

 

Grips: Golf Pride New Decade Multi-Compound Midsize, Winn Dri-Tac X Putter

Ball: Titleist AVX

Bag: Titleist Linksmaster

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, pghgolfer said:

Do you think a different head would be more effective than a high spinning shaft?


To add to all the good info shared above, yes a higher lofted head will always be more effective. A "high spinning" shaft is simply one that will deflect more approaching impact which raises dynamic loft. This however is completely delivery dependent and this will never be as consistent as a fixed loft increase, which will accomplish the same thing without as much volatility. Pick the shaft that suits your timing and feel the best, use head adjustments for spin. 

The Mavrik SZ is also a VERY low spinning head, probably one of the lowest out there. Even with the weight in the rear it has an extremely low CG and only a pretty mid range MOI. If you otherwise really like the head then moving to the 10.5 version is definitely the way to go. 

Edited by Valtiel
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Taylormade SIM 10.5* Diamana X'17 70TX || Taylormade SIM 9* Diamana X'17 70X
Taylormade SIM Ti V2 15* Diamana DF 80TX || Taylormade SIM Ti 15* Kuro Kage DCXM 80TX
Taylormade M5 19* Tensei Pro White 90TX || TItleist 915FD 18* Fujikura Motore VC 9.2 Tour Spec X 
Srixon ZX Utility 20* HZRDUS Red 105 6.5 || Taylormade RSI UDI 20* Kuro Kage 100XTS Hybrid  
Bridgestone J40 DPC 4i-7i 23*- 35* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Bridgestone J40 CB 8i-PW 39*- 48* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0

Taylormade Milled Grind Raw 54* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Vokey SM6 58* Oil Can Low Bounce K-Grind Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Scotty Cameron Newport Tour Red Dot || Taylormade Spider X Navy Slant

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Adam C said:

Howard, so much good stuff here. Question though. Only focusing on the Carry totals you highlight, we see the 11% rule maximizing carry, however if we look at the total distance of carry and rollout we see that the lowest spin value always produces the greatest total distance at any LA.

Are we saying that the roll out measurements are not accurate or consistent enough to be concerned about here or is it just a matter of landing angle not being as important when compared to spin rate especially at the slower 150 ball speeds?


I might have used the "wrong words" here, but my findings is, that optimum CARRY can be identified by looking at roll out as % of total. Total itself is always a question of spin vs fairways, but we all know that the fairway we play, will vary deepening on season and the weather.

If we look into Trackmans "optimum" numbers who AINT maximum, longest total is always a low launch with low spin value, but most of us want be dependent of fairway conditions, and want a safe number for carry to make sure we can get over bunkers, lakes, rivers or whatever hazard the course has, so the posts above has a focus on CARRY, not maximized total. 

Here is Trackmans optimum TOTAL, and if we look at a CS of 100 mph, in theory this player can have a roll out of 54 yards....how often do we play fairways who would allow that?
54 / 293 = 18.4 % of total is roll out, so if fairways is like that, find a putter where the hosel has 1.0" insert or more, and rip it 🙂

Trackman_Optimization_Chart_High_Swing_Speeds

And here are their charts for OPTIMUM Carry (not maximum)

Screen Shot 2015-05-18 at 4.10.36 PM

For the 100 mph player, the difference to launch is 2.5* and spin as much as 649 lower for max total. Carry difference is relative small with only 239 vs 247 in their charts, but i have never optimized a driver for a customer with focus on TOTAL, but have made a worm killer to myself for those days a silly low launch and low spin is beneficial. (7.5 loft and PX 7.0 8A4 shaft). My favorite gamer has 11* loft and PL RED AXIS R flex as compare.

Edited by Howard_Jones
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry @Howard_Jones, confused.

 

Earlier, you state -

 

Angle of attack or SPIN LOFT is NOT what makes a difference to spin on drivers, its Vertical gear effects due to impact position of the face vs VCOG.

AOA changes launch angle, and by that potential carry, but it does nothing to spin that matters real life.

 

But the charts in the last post appear to indicate an obvious strong correlation -

 

F9B5A32E-3DF9-414A-94CE-CB2E32EFBE47.png.a157695e917f67ec8fc0ff61be386546.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, Jeff58 said:

Sorry @Howard_Jones, confused.

 

Earlier, you state -

 

Angle of attack or SPIN LOFT is NOT what makes a difference to spin on drivers, its Vertical gear effects due to impact position of the face vs VCOG.

AOA changes launch angle, and by that potential carry, but it does nothing to spin that matters real life.

 

But the charts in the last post appear to indicate an obvious strong correlation -

 

F9B5A32E-3DF9-414A-94CE-CB2E32EFBE47.png.a157695e917f67ec8fc0ff61be386546.png


Correct, thats what this charts want you to think, but its plain out WRONG
This charts give the impression of that SPIN is a product of a negative AOA, while the fact is different. The reason for why this charts has a high spin value with negative AOA, is because its the only way to keep the ball in the air when launch becomes low, so they have "juiced" this charts to SELL swing lessons who can please the PGA system, because thats their target customer group, who makes a living from selling swing training.

Go to Flight scopes optimizer, thats where i have ripped the numbers above from, and enter what ever values you like. You will notice that when launch goes up, spin SHOULD go down, if nott the ball will balloon on you, while if launch is low, you NEED some extra spin to stretch flight time.

This charts is THE WORSE ever published, simply because they are not delivered with a explanation for the numbers, and they have another parameter manipulated to that most dont notice, and thats Smash factor for negative vs positive AOA, but thats NOT how it goes down either.

Scroll up in this tread and look at the numbers from Adam Young.
His Average PTR with 5.8 positive AOA is 1.51
His Average PTR with 5.2 negative AOA is 1.49
Thats only 0.02,,,,Trackmans Chart is "juiced" and tells 0.04

This is the reason why i confronted them hard back in 2011, their charts DO NOT show what was MAXIMUM, and gave the wrong impressions about both ball speed and spin values.

I had a Customer (Elite amateur) who happens to be a teacher of physics at the university of Aalborg in Denmark (Trackman is Danish) and i could get him WAY over and beyond Trackmans charts for a AOA of +5, even if this player did not have a positive AOA at all...as the first and only, they delivered their footprint of their algorithm to me, to explain how that was possible.

Here it is....so hardly anyone have been deeper into this than i have, but i lived and worked in Denmark, and had several Trackman employees as my customers, so i was closer to it all than most others 

885397328_Trackmanfootprint.JPG.a584ca7c6145f0df1495b960bbb4b234.JPG

Compare this Footprint with their own charts, and you get to see that their charts is CRAP and not telling the truth at all.

Screen Shot 2015-05-18 at 4.10.29 PM

Here is the numbers who made me contact them, asking if my unit needed a calibration or something...but no, the numbers was correct (they are METERS)

723344466_Ane90mphTrackman.JPG.f1bc90239afea5e863917a2bb9ba48eb.JPG

As Yards this player has a average on this 2 shots of 197.1 meter, thats 216.6 yards. Their charts for optimum say MAX 214, and that it takes a POSITIVE AOA of +5 to get there, but this customer has a AOA of - 0.2 or neutral if you like.

Their chart for 0 AOA say max 203 yards, but we are now 13.6 yards above that....As TOTAL (optimized carry) my player had 226.1 meter or 248.46 yards, their charts for AOA +5 say max 239, so we are close to 10 yards longer, and compared to his actual AOA of 0, we are 20 yards longer since the chart say 228'

His longest shot was 199.4 meter Carry or 219.2 yards, while their "optimum charts for hos AOA say 203 yards....16.2 yards difference is A LOT in my book. 

 

DO NOT USE TRACKMANs OPTIMUM CHARTS, they are misleading and is NOT telling the truth about this at all, and they give the impression that a negative AOA generate SPIN, but its NOT what they show off at all.

Edited by Howard_Jones
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, Jeff58 said:

But the charts in the last post appear to indicate an obvious strong correlation -

 

Charts are old but even with that, they assume perfect delivery and contact.   That means they do tell you that there are limitations to the max potential optimal numbers based on AoA.   But the catch is that they do nothing to tell you what is causing the problems when you are not at those optimal numbers nor do they tell you what might be the best way to get to those optimal numbers.

 

The reality is that, while AoA might have some impact on what the potential optimal numbers might be, it rarely causes the problems that are keeping people from obtaining those optimal numbers.   The effect is relatively very small compared to other common root causes of spin problems with the driver.  #1 being impact location and #2 dynamic loft delivered.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Charts are old but even with that, they assume perfect delivery and contact.  

 

Look at BALL SPEED difference from negative to positive AOA....this charts is "juiced" to sell swing lessons, they are NOT telling the truth at all, and give the impression that spin is a product of AOA but we cent get longer away from the facts,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/28/2021 at 7:35 PM, pghgolfer said:

I’ve tried all settings with the movable weight, and hosel, but spin remains too low. Any thoughts on a way to increase my spin to help improve my carry number?

Change shaft, loft and or a different ball. 

  • Titleist TS2, 9.5 Ventus 5 Series S
  • Titleist TS2, 4wd Ventus 6 Series S
  • Titleist 718 T-MB 2i Tensei AV White AM
  • Titleist 620 Series 3-4i Tensei AV White AM
  • Titleist 620 Series 5-PW MMT 125
  • SM6 F-52/8 MMT 125
  • SM6 M-58/8 MMT 125
  • SC CA Monterey
  • DASH-ProV1x & AVX
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Our picks


×
×
  • Create New...