Dr Kwon

[yoose]

18 minutes ago, glk said:

No need to tape it if you order from them.   I never found anything close to it at big box hardwares.  Good luck.

So you didn’t pay the $6 to whip each end and don’t have issues with it unraveling?

[Stiff]

36 minutes ago, yoose said:

Thanks for the link. Did you have them whip the ends or DIY it? Seems like you can just tape it up. Shipping is $15+ for me 😞 going to see if I can find it locally. 

Home Depot sells 3/4" double braided rope just like it.  They burned off both ends for me.  I'm 6'3" so I had them cut it to 7' 1/2 feet--perfect.. 

[glk]

8 minutes ago, yoose said:

So you didn’t pay the $6 to whip each end and don’t have issues with it unraveling?

Nope.    As it came.  Already had some tape on ends.  Guess I could add more but haven’t seen the need.

[Zitlow]

For those so inclined you can also use the rope to drill your pivot. 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2021 by Zitlow

[rondo01]

19 minutes ago, Zitlow said:

For those so inclined you can also use the rope to drill your pivot. 

 

as well as bands…

https://www.instagram.com/p/B47vjuhFgwD/?utm_medium=copy_link

[glk]

 

[Nels55]

I think that watching someone else get a lesson is the best form of video instruction.  For me watching the student make a swing that looks pretty good and then seeing the instructor shake his head and make a correction really helps to get the concept across. 

 

LOL also I noticed that the young lady swinging at the end of the Stage 2 video seems to have some pretty good club head speed.  Possibly even up there with the typical wrx'r?

[Circaflex]

In the recent video, is he teaching a sway?

[rondo01]

14 minutes ago, Circaflex said:

In the recent video, is he teaching a sway?

only in as much as it allows for a recentering move. To me, at the moment, it feels like I’m practically about to step away from the target. See this for the minutia of it. 
 

 

[maigre]

35 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

LOL also I noticed that the young lady swinging at the end of the Stage 2 video seems to have some pretty good club head speed.  Possibly even up there with the typical wrx'r?

 

She's featured in a recent IG post of Dr. Kwon's. I had the same impression when I saw her there. 

[MPStrat]

8 hours ago, Zitlow said:

@glkIt was a few months maybe a year ago when I saw the DD video teaching someone to slide their left arm down and shaft down while squatting. I don't have the time or inclination to find it. I did a quick search of the wall drill and ran across a video by GG teaching what I saw DD teaching. Sliding the left arm down their right side, sliding the club head down the wall while squatting.

 

 

I think Dr. Kwon's teaching is worthwhile. Don't hate on me but I wouldn't walk across the street to take a free lesson from DD or GG. 

Dana has changed his preferences about as much as anyone out there. That’s another conversation. However, if you saw a video of him teaching someone to lower the arms,  it was either a video close to 10 years old when he was teaching golfing machine/morad stuff or he was teaching a pro that already does it. Guys like Rory, Alex Noren and Sergio do it at an extremely high level. Since around 2016 he has heavily discouraged amateurs to lower the arms manually. Dana has evolved over the years, I will give him that. What he is teaching now is essentially this Kwon stuff. 
 

GG is honestly great but I’ll just say that I don’t agree with MANY of his preferences specifically as it pertains to the legs and body alignments. However, in the video you linked, he is not telling the student to lower the left arm down the chest. He actually says not to do that in the video. 

Edited December 25, 2021 by MPStrat

[RichieHunt]

As Dr. Scott Lynn has said, GG's teaching tends to reduce the amount of horizontal force in the downswing.  That way students don't 'put too much gas in the tank' and then cannot get horizontal breaking.  There was also a video GG did with Dr. Lynn showing Johnny Ruiz having the exact CoP and pressure shifts that AMG said couldn't happen.  

 

GG's teachings aren't for everybody.  Players that lower their CoG and open up like Dr. Kwon describes probably don't need GG because he's just reinforcing something they do.  But many golfers tend to do the opposite.  

 

My own experience with GG's teachings is that address position was difficult for me to obtain, perhaps because I'm 6'4" with only a 29" inseam.  However, I think getting a setup position closer to what GG prescribed is hugely beneficial to me given that I stand too far from the ball at address and that causes my right arm motion to get out of whack.  

 

The lead leg movement in the downswing was difficult for me to execute as well and I think there are a lot of students that just don't execute it well and players like Matthew Wolff that really don't make that movement.  But other students, particularly Ruiz, make a close facsimile to what GG prescribes.

 

Dana's teachings have changed quite a bit over the years.  I would say that he is very much influenced by Dr. Kwon as well as what he's learned from long drive competitors like Josh Koch, Kyle Berkshire and is still very much influenced by what he learned from MORAD.  

 

I think people don't understand that as great as Dr. Kwon is, he's using biomechanics as his branch of science to teach the golf swing.  MORAD is more neurology based and Kelvin Miyahira was more anatomy/anatomical movements based.  

 

I can see one making the argument that if you get the biomechanics 'right' then the neurology and anatomy will fall in line.  But I can see one also making an argument against that.  It doesn't mean one is necessarily 'right' or 'wrong', but more like one may work well for certain people and not work well for another person.

 

 

 

RH

[MPStrat]

What’s interesting is that Kwon doesn’t seem to favor the long drive lead foot rainbow move that you see in Koch and Berkshire. Possibly because it’s a max speed move and maybe not ideal when you don’t get 10 balls to land in a grid. That’s pure speculation on my part. I would like to hear Kwon’s thoughts. 

[Nels55]

1 hour ago, rondo01 said:

only in as much as it allows for a recentering move. To me, at the moment, it feels like I’m practically about to step away from the target. See this for the minutia of it. 
 

 

Every pro that I look at video of does the recentering move even 81 year old Lee Trevino.  I have tried including the drills from AMG+ and I can't seem to do it LOL.  I took a video of myself throwing a golf ball like a submarine pitcher and I exhibited the movement pretty much as described by Dr. Kwon and here in this video.  My body moves forward as a unit with the hips and shoulders closed while the arm is going back and everything fires through nicely.  LOL I know that the movement is in there somewhere in my limited athletic ability but I just can't seem to figure out how to get it out!

 

Here is Trevino making his same beautiful swing with just a bit less amplitude now days:

 

[ingster1]

7 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

Every pro that I look at video of does the recentering move even 81 year old Lee Trevino.  I have tried including the drills from AMG+ and I can't seem to do it LOL.  I took a video of myself throwing a golf ball like a submarine pitcher and I exhibited the movement pretty much as described by Dr. Kwon and here in this video.  My body moves forward as a unit with the hips and shoulders closed while the arm is going back and everything fires through nicely.  LOL I know that the movement is in there somewhere in my limited athletic ability but I just can't seem to figure out how to get it out!

 

Here is Trevino making his same beautiful swing with just a bit less amplitude now days:

 

Take this with a grain of salt but for me I find the recentering move a reaction to a more forceful backswing.  If I consciously try to recenter, I feel unathletic and tend to lose my balance.

[MK7Golf21]

28 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

What’s interesting is that Kwon doesn’t seem to favor the long drive lead foot rainbow move that you see in Koch and Berkshire. Possibly because it’s a max speed move and maybe not ideal when you don’t get 10 balls to land in a grid. That’s pure speculation on my part. I would like to hear Kwon’s thoughts. 

Patrick Reed does that move too and is 203 out of 255 in driving distance on tour.

[MPStrat]

1 hour ago, Redjeep83 said:

Patrick Reed does that move too and is 203 out of 255 in driving distance on tour.

The lead foot rainbow is part of an overall long drive pattern used by a number of guys who swing it 150+ mph. I spoke to Josh Koch in person about his actual experience and results with it. It’s not a golf digest tip. A player that’s not fast isn’t going to be fast by adding it. My interest is whether a swing will be faster or slower for the individual, more accurate or less accurate, more repeatable or less repeatable. I have my own opinions, but for full effort 150 mph swings, extremely low lofted drivers and hitting up 10, these guys are good. 

Edited December 25, 2021 by MPStrat

[RichieHunt]

2 hours ago, Redjeep83 said:

Patrick Reed does that move too and is 203 out of 255 in driving distance on tour.

 

Yeah but he was at 117.3 mph average club speed back in 2018.  He changed his swing and lost speed as a result.

 

 

 

 

RH

[RichieHunt]

2 hours ago, ingster1 said:

Take this with a grain of salt but for me I find the recentering move a reaction to a more forceful backswing.  If I consciously try to recenter, I feel unathletic and tend to lose my balance.

 

I pretty much agree with your assessment.  

 

 

 

RH

[Hilts1969]

On 12/20/2021 at 10:25 PM, KD1 said:

Brendon's 3 day golf school w/ dr kwon: https://www.bebettergolf.net/school.html

$2k. Not sure about that when you can just go see him 1 on 1 for $500.

 

I wouldn't pay 2k or 500 dollars for a step drill which has been around for ever. If you have poor arm and wrist structure you can step all day long, hell you could be Fred Astaire. I particularly like the you must see me or you will step incorrectly part. Almost like they are selling something.

[ALIF]

1 hour ago, Hilts1969 said:

 

I wouldn't pay 2k or 500 dollars for a step drill which has been around for ever. If you have poor arm and wrist structure you can step all day long, hell you could be Fred Astaire. I particularly like the you must see me or you will step incorrectly part. Almost like they are selling something.

Kinda what I was thinking too.

[MPStrat]

1 hour ago, Hilts1969 said:

 

I wouldn't pay 2k or 500 dollars for a step drill which has been around for ever. If you have poor arm and wrist structure you can step all day long, hell you could be Fred Astaire. I particularly like the you must see me or you will step incorrectly part. Almost like they are selling something.

Your point is reasonable and I understand your skepticism. However, I would disagree on a couple things. Kwon is essentially teaching how to marry athleticism and mechanics. Being able to sequence in this manner is extremely valuable and if done even close to what he prescribes, will cure many ills and in many cases without having to be overly mechanical or deliberate with the levers.

 

Secondly, step drills have been around forever but up until recently, they were almost always explained incorrectly or in a vague manner. People always said things like “shift into the right side and then make sure you finish on the lead side.” In reality the timing of this is much more counterintuitive to the point where I believe many would benefit from a lesson on exactly how to do it. The timing of the steps is as important as the steps themselves. 

 

I would also say that working on arm structure while not having an athletic and dynamic sequence is going to generally be a lifelong struggle. I’ve seen guys trying to piece together a backswing for a decade and it seems to get slower and slower and tends to not be very repeatable. The sequence is the glue that holds a swing together. There isn’t only one way to do it, but I believe this is a way that works extremely well. 

[rondo01]

nm.

Edited December 26, 2021 by rondo01

[Hilts1969]

8 hours ago, MPStrat said:

Your point is reasonable and I understand your skepticism. However, I would disagree on a couple things. Kwon is essentially teaching how to marry athleticism and mechanics. Being able to sequence in this manner is extremely valuable and if done even close to what he prescribes, will cure many ills and in many cases without having to be overly mechanical or deliberate with the levers.

 

Secondly, step drills have been around forever but up until recently, they were almost always explained incorrectly or in a vague manner. People always said things like “shift into the right side and then make sure you finish on the lead side.” In reality the timing of this is much more counterintuitive to the point where I believe many would benefit from a lesson on exactly how to do it. The timing of the steps is as important as the steps themselves. 

 

I would also say that working on arm structure while not having an athletic and dynamic sequence is going to generally be a lifelong struggle. I’ve seen guys trying to piece together a backswing for a decade and it seems to get slower and slower and tends to not be very repeatable. The sequence is the glue that holds a swing together. There isn’t only one way to do it, but I believe this is a way that works extremely well. 

 

I agree all I’m saying is the idea that doing these movements will naturally transform a swing, especially one ingrained over many years,  is very hopeful. You can get the information from various sources for free. It’s just seems that this is this years big thing although it isn’t even new. 

 

I have heard the term shift turn shift turn mentioned a lot and even this is a bad term. I think a good instructor and the ability to diagnose your own swing is the best way to go. The debate about using your arms and not doing so intentionally continues. I think the answer is always “it depends” .

[rondo01]

1 hour ago, Hilts1969 said:

 

I agree all I’m saying is the idea that doing these movements will naturally transform a swing, especially one ingrained over many years,  is very hopeful. You can get the information from various sources for free. It’s just seems that this is this years big thing although it isn’t even new. 

If you can’t see that access to the guy who created the model in a lab setting is different than a free YouTube video…I dunno man. Seems like you think this is a Brad Hughes type thing, when it’s just not. And in regards to the yearly big thing: I’d say it definitely is; brendons videos are the first really public demonstration by Kwon himself. That’s significant 🤷‍♂️

 

[airjammer]

Oh there’s definitely a difference between youtube and seeing him in person. That being said even if you see Kwon it’s not sunshine and rainbows afterwards. 
 

This is one of Dana’s students that went to see Kwon in June. 
 

http://www.instagram.com/p/CQoc2Tstcgt/?utm_medium=copy_link

 

Now during his last lesson with Dana. 
 

http://www.instagram.com/p/CXCcfFZPQkX/?utm_medium=copy_link

There is still a lot of nuances that have to be changed it seems.  

I definitely don’t believe for 1 sec that you can “get it” from a YouTube video or even a 1 hr lesson. You might get 10% of it from a video. In the end the motion drills are only as good as the timing in which you do them and Dr. Kwon already stated that they won’t be done correctly without his instruction. When I watch the Be Better videos can barely see if any difference from one of Brendon’s swings with Dr Kwon in which he says “yes that’s it” and the ones he doesn’t. Obviously he knows what he is looking for as far as sequencing but it is barely detectable. 

Just a side note..Brendon doesn’t seem to be posting round blogs in the past year besides a hole or two. I’m curious how is he actually playing. 

[MK7Golf21]

To be fair Kwon did call out his obvious swing issues while doing the drills. That guy has always had too much roll on takeaway and spun his shoulders too much to start the downswing which kicked everything out too much. He had him working on fixing both those issues during the drills so atleast in that aspect it looks like pretty good drills for him. Going back to hitting balls, especially irons I could see you running into some issues learning this stuff. 

[Golfbeat]

1 hour ago, airjammer said:

Oh there’s definitely a difference between youtube and seeing him in person. That being said even if you see Kwon it’s not sunshine and rainbows afterwards. 
 

This is one of Dana’s students that went to see Kwon in June. 
 

http://www.instagram.com/p/CQoc2Tstcgt/?utm_medium=copy_link

 

Now during his last lesson with Dana. 
 

http://www.instagram.com/p/CXCcfFZPQkX/?utm_medium=copy_link

There is still a lot of nuances that have to be changed it seems.  

I definitely don’t believe for 1 sec that you can “get it” from a YouTube video or even a 1 hr lesson. You might get 10% of it from a video. In the end the motion drills are only as good as the timing in which you do them and Dr. Kwon already stated that they won’t be done correctly without his instruction. When I watch the Be Better videos can barely see if any difference from one of Brendon’s swings with Dr Kwon in which he says “yes that’s it” and the ones he doesn’t. Obviously he knows what he is looking for as far as sequencing but it is barely detectable. 

Just a side note..Brendon doesn’t seem to be posting round blogs in the past year besides a hole or two. I’m curious how is he actually playing. 

 

Is Dana doing first the after and then the before? He always seem to confuse me with this.

Edited December 26, 2021 by Golfbeat

[Golfbeat]

1 hour ago, Redjeep83 said:

To be fair Kwon did call out his obvious swing issues while doing the drills. That guy has always had too much roll on takeaway and spun his shoulders too much to start the downswing which kicked everything out too much. He had him working on fixing both those issues during the drills so atleast in that aspect it looks like pretty good drills for him. Going back to hitting balls, especially irons I could see you running into some issues learning this stuff. 

 

Fully agree that the step drill will not create the perfect back swing automatically. Still have to make sure that the arms stay in front of the body and the wrists are working correctly.

Edited December 26, 2021 by Golfbeat

[airjammer]

27 minutes ago, Golfbeat said:

 

Is Dana doing first the after and then the before? He always seem to confuse me with this.

On the side by side slides the right is new. It varies by post it seems