Dr Kwon

[MPStrat]

5 hours ago, Hilts1969 said:

They don't want you to leave the arms up while you transition. The arms fall in every golf swing and you must either push or pull. They teach a bit of both.

 

The arms absolutely don’t have to pull down like they teach. This is often said by people who don’t understand what it means to keep the arms high relative to the chest. If you sequence like Kwon’s system for instance, they arms won’t fly outward like people demonstrate. It will be a swing that looks more like DJ, Brooks and Xander. As opposed to Sergio, Charles Howell III and Fowler. I’m not saying both can’t work at a high level, but AMG clearly wants the grip pulled down really hard. They have literally said it over and over again both on the Internet and to people I know that have taken lessons. By all means have at it. 
 

[rondo01]

Curious about the ropes? Here you go.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_4nHSu_Swg

[Hilts1969]

4 hours ago, glk said:

Just an fyi if you weren’t aware but the $500 donation to twu scholarship fund gets one 3 hours - first two hours are a 3D motion and force plate capture using three different clubs - a hour of swings and an hour of discussion then the hour Of drills.

Send me a cheque for a couple of grand and I will go and see him if it means that much to you:-)

 

2 hours ago, MPStrat said:

The arms absolutely don’t have to pull down like they teach. This is often said by people who don’t understand what it means to keep the arms high relative to the chest. If you sequence like Kwon’s system for instance, they arms won’t fly outward like people demonstrate. It will be a swing that looks more like DJ, Brooks and Xander. As opposed to Sergio, Charles Howell III and Fowler. I’m not saying both can’t work at a high level, but AMG clearly wants the grip pulled down really hard. They have literally said it over and over again both on the Internet and to people I know that have taken lessons. By all means have at it. 
 

 

I said they wanted the arms to lower not sure what your point is, I suppose the pulling really hard to create speed was cherry picked as well even though they have the data to prove it?  There is nothing wrong with pulling as long as you are doing it in the right direction and pivoting correctly. 

 

Im actually attempting the pivot that Dr Kwon/AMG promote and have been before that video dropped. My struggle is with how much you back into the target and the arm structure. You seem to think I’m knocking him, I ain’t. The step drill,rope drill,back to the target, club still going back as you start your pivot down is nothing new, it’s been around for ever. 

 

How anyone become good before Dr Kwon turned up must have been a miracle.

[zacgolf]

Some info coming on his new YouTube channel.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_4nHSu_Swg

[Forged4life]

53 minutes ago, Hilts1969 said:

Send me a cheque for a couple of grand and I will go and see him if it means that much to you:-)

It’s only 500 ha

[Hilts1969]

2 minutes ago, Forged4life said:

It’s only 500 ha

 

Loss of income, beer,Flight, beer, hotel, beer, hire car,beer. Another lesson because of the hangover. It all adds up:-)

[Nels55]

50 minutes ago, Hilts1969 said:

 

 

How anyone become good before Dr Kwon turned up must have been a miracle.

 

It seems to me that top players do certain things 'naturally' that the rest of us struggle with. What AMG and the Dr. Movie Villain are doing is analyzing really good swings and trying to figure out how to get hacks to have good sequencing and impact position and effortless power and all the rest of it.  Does it work?  I don't know...  I think the swing that Brendon is making after Kwon is better then it was before Kwon.  LOL will this 'better' swing get to the course and make him a better player?  Maybe.  On the other hand maybe not and he will be on to the next instructor in a short while.  My experience with AMG+ watching all the videos and even submitting a swing or two was that it is really complicated and hard to figure out.  It seems like a never ending process.  Kwon's teaching seems simpler and easier to grasp.  Of course on the other hand it does seem based on Brendon's experience that doing the drills correctly is not all that easy.  

 

LOL I am trying to do the drills based on watching the videos so I will see if there is any improvement in my ball striking.  So far it seems to be helping but that could be me climbing Mt. Stupid in the Dunning Kruger effect... 

Edited December 30, 2021 by Nels55
typo

[Hilts1969]

2 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

 

It seems to me that top players do certain things 'naturally' that the rest of us struggle with. What AMG and the Dr. Movie Villain are doing is analyzing really good swings and trying to figure out how to get hacks to have good sequencing and impact position and effortless power and all the rest of it.  Does it work?  I don't know...  I think the swing that Brendon is making after Kwon is better then it was before Kwon.  LOL will this 'better' swing get to the course and make him a better player?  Maybe.  On the other hand maybe not and he will be on to the next instructor in a short while.  My experience with AMG+ watching all the videos and even submitting a swing or two was that it is really complicated and hard to figure out.  It seems like a never ending process.  Kwon's teaching seems simpler and easier to grasp.  Of course on the other hand it does seem based on Brendon's experience that doing the drills correctly is not all that easy.  

 

LOL I am trying to do the drills based on watching the videos so I will see if there is any improvement in my balls striking.  So far it seems to be helping but that could be me climbing Mt. Stupid in the Dunning Kruger effect... 

 

Looking at his swings with Dr Kwon I would guess he would get plenty of distance but the dispersion could well be all over the place. One thing I notice with pros is that ability to swing free and fast but still have structure. When Brendon did his Milo squat phase his head bobbing was quite a sight. On these it looks like there is little control. He suffers a similar problem to me in that he always takes the full bottle of pills.

 

If I did the Gankas eat the ball drill I would be flossing mud out of my teeth for a week.

[Zitlow]

17 minutes ago, Hilts1969 said:

 

Loss of income, beer,Flight, beer, hotel, beer, hire car,beer. Another lesson because of the hangover. It all adds up:-)

 

Don't forget the hookers and the gambling. 

[Hilts1969]

5 minutes ago, Zitlow said:

 

Don't forget the hookers and the gambling. 

 

I think we are going to need a send Hilts to the states fund, I will put you down for fifty. 

 

 

[MPStrat]

1 hour ago, Hilts1969 said:

I said they wanted the arms to lower not sure what your point is, I suppose the pulling really hard to create speed was cherry picked as well even though they have the data to prove it?  There is nothing wrong with pulling as long as you are doing it in the right direction and pivoting correctly. 

It is cherry picked. If you look at the top 10 in the world currently, there are 5 guys that pull down and 5 guys that don’t. 

[Hilts1969]

8 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

It is cherry picked. If you look at the top 10 in the world currently, there are 5 guys that pull down and 5 guys that don’t. 

Erm.......

 

I think they all do to some degree. We are getting into semantics I think which is ironic as that is what golf instruction can get drawn into 

[Nels55]

14 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

It is cherry picked. If you look at the top 10 in the world currently, there are 5 guys that pull down and 5 guys that don’t. 

Every top player's arms go up and down to some extent.  You are perhaps talking one plane vs. two plane or something along those lines?  Who would be an example from the 5 guys who don't pull down?

[Forged4life]

3 hours ago, Nels55 said:

 

It seems to me that top players do certain things 'naturally' that the rest of us struggle with. What AMG and the Dr. Movie Villain are doing is analyzing really good swings and trying to figure out how to get hacks to have good sequencing and impact position and effortless power and all the rest of it.  Does it work?  I don't know...  I think the swing that Brendon is making after Kwon is better then it was before Kwon.  LOL will this 'better' swing get to the course and make him a better player?  Maybe.  On the other hand maybe not and he will be on to the next instructor in a short while.  My experience with AMG+ watching all the videos and even submitting a swing or two was that it is really complicated and hard to figure out.  It seems like a never ending process.  Kwon's teaching seems simpler and easier to grasp.  Of course on the other hand it does seem based on Brendon's experience that doing the drills correctly is not all that easy.  

 

LOL I am trying to do the drills based on watching the videos so I will see if there is any improvement in my ball striking.  So far it seems to be helping but that could be me climbing Mt. Stupid in the Dunning Kruger effect... 

I’ve climbed Mt. Stupid many times. Makes life interesting 

Edited December 31, 2021 by Forged4life

[Forged4life]

23 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

It is cherry picked. If you look at the top 10 in the world currently, there are 5 guys that pull down and 5 guys that don’t. 

How do you know they’re pulling down and not pushing out? You can’t becaose you’re not inside their brains or muscles 

[MK7Golf21]

The steps drills and fast backswing is literally how Kyle Birkshire swings, I don’t think it’s a coincidence when Kwon’s central focus is speed in his studies. 

[rondo01]

42 minutes ago, Hilts1969 said:

 

Looking at his swings with Dr Kwon I would guess he would get plenty of distance but the dispersion could well be all over the place.

by this logic, Sasho Mackenzie and Chris Como influenced instructors and taught players would have horrible dispersion. How do you make this conclusion? If this creates an easily repeatable path, it’s all face control from there. 

[Forged4life]

2 hours ago, rondo01 said:

Curious about the ropes? Here you go.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_4nHSu_Swg

Kind of telling how nuts is golfers are that we are excited to learn how to cut a rope to a certain length ha

[Hilts1969]

9 minutes ago, rondo01 said:

by this logic, Sasho Mackenzie and Chris Como influenced instructors and taught players would have horrible dispersion. How do you make this conclusion? If this creates an easily repeatable path, it’s all face control from there. 

 

Im looking at Brendon’s swing there is no ball there(wonder why) so It’s a guess. The last thing we need though is to go down the Mackenzie Como route. 

Edited December 30, 2021 by Hilts1969

[Hilts1969]

1 minute ago, Forged4life said:

Kind of telling how nuts is golfers are that we are excited to learn how to cut a rope to a certain length ha

 

Do you cut it on plane and pull it off the table or push it off. I’m not buying any rope until I watch the latest 3 hour seminar from Mackenzie and condo sorry I mean coma, no Como.

[Nard_S]

I left the range with a smile on my face. It's been a while. Keyed in on Kwon's 'get hip over other foot' & 'get reverse C at top'. These two simple intents made it a good session. Felt like I had good depth and shift without the sway.

 

Rehearsed it by choking down about 6" and with loose arms, and timed everything off of active hip move. Had to keep in mind the sense of space it needs to work in. Then went live. First thing that improves a bunch is rhythm.

 

I've been trying to get solid hip move for long time, it improves but then stagnates, this sort of unlocked things and lower body felt a lot more active but never out of control. Hit one of the best drives of the year, felt so right.

[miamistomp]

4 minutes ago, Forged4life said:

Kind of telling how nuts is golfers are that we are excited to learn how to cut a rope to a certain length ha

 Also like people haven't been doing that drill forever with a towel or handkerchief

 

[MPStrat]

37 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

Every top player's arms go up and down to some extent.  You are perhaps talking one plane vs. two plane or something along those lines?  Who would be an example from the 5 guys who don't pull down?

I am talking about the lead arm relationship to the chest. Some leave the arm up in relation to the chest and some pull it down. 
 

Brooks, DJ, Finau, Champ, JT, Xander are some examples of guys who leave it up

 

 

[MPStrat]

40 minutes ago, Forged4life said:

How do you know they’re pulling down and not pushing out? You can’t becaose you’re not inside their brains or muscles 

I know this because the lead arm lowers down the chest vs staying up higher in relation to the chest 

[Soloman1]

Lead arm adduction is an important, but rarely discussed movement.

[MPStrat]

Just now, Soloman1 said:

Lead arm adduction is an important, but rarely discussed movement.

This is true, although I often see it discussed as almost irrelevant by those who advocate for lowering the lead arm. It’s sort of a talking point. 
 

Equally important and what I’m referring to is where the lead arm is located in relation to chest. For example does it move down or does it mostly stay where it is? 

[Hilts1969]

25 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

This is true, although I often see it discussed as almost irrelevant by those who advocate for lowering the lead arm. It’s sort of a talking point. 
 

Equally important and what I’m referring to is where the lead arm is located in relation to chest. For example does it move down or does it mostly stay where it is? 

 

From where? P4 P5 P6 P7 the downswing is that quick I don’t think you can say leave your arm where it is till P5. By the time you have thought that you have finished the swing and you are hoping the ball hasn’t done too much damage in the car park.  You think you release the angles straight away and it shows that way? 

 

Monte might say use your wrists and speed up the arms from the top

amg might say keep the wrist angles as is and ulnar from 5.5

dr Kwon might say do nothing 

 

none of them are daft and two of them are mighty fine players, I have no idea how good Dr Kwon is at golf.

[MPStrat]

3 minutes ago, Hilts1969 said:

 

From where? P4 P5 P6 P7 the downswing is that quick I don’t think you can say leave your arm where it is till P5. By the time you have thought that you have finished the swing and you are hoping the ball hasn’t done too much damage in the car park.  You think you release the angles straight away and it shows that way? 

 

Monte might say use your wrists and speed up the arms from the top

amg might say keep the wrist angles as is and ulnar from 5.5

dr Kwon might say do nothing 

 

none of them are daft and two of them are mighty fine players, I have no idea how good Dr Kwon is at golf.

its pretty simple, all you have to do is look at their swings to see what they actually do. I’ve said you can play both ways.  They either leave it up or they pull it down. The question is, can you identify on camera a swing where a player pulls down vs one who doesn’t? 

[DShepley]

5 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

its pretty simple, all you have to do is look at their swings to see what they actually do. I’ve said you can play both ways.  They either leave it up or they pull it down. The question is, can you identify on camera a swing where a player pulls down vs one who doesn’t? 

This is the problem when analyzing movement without knowing the intent of the player. George Knudson in his book said that 'the inside moves the outside' or something to that effect. He used his body to propel his arms or that was at least how he felt it. If you watch his release, he returns the shaft at impact on virtually the same plane as address, (like a Hardy RIT definition, or the same Malaska advocates....pick your trend). Hardy would instruct a player to drop their arms and throw the clubhead to achieve this, Malaska would suggest the player feel the shaft stand vertical and tip out to run the clubhead into the back of the ball. George Knudson, on the other hand,  would suggest transfering your weight to the finish position, finishing at full height and simply letting the arms go where they need to.  Isn't golf great?

[MPStrat]

4 minutes ago, DShepley said:

This is the problem when analyzing movement without knowing the intent of the player. George Knudson in his book said that 'the inside moves the outside' or something to that effect. He used his body to propel his arms or that was at least how he felt it. If you watch his release, he returns the shaft at impact on virtually the same plane as address, (like a Hardy RIT definition, or the same Malaska advocates....pick your trend). Hardy would instruct a player to drop their arms and throw the clubhead to achieve this, Malaska would suggest the player feel the shaft stand vertical and tip out to run the clubhead into the back of the ball. George Knudson, on the other hand,  would suggest transfering your weight to the finish position, finishing at full height and simply letting the arms go where they need to.  Isn't golf great?

On board with all of this. I’m not talking about feels, though. AMG teaches based on cherry picked data. They advovate for pulling the handle straight down with force independently. I would be willing to bet that if the amateur golfer doesn’t already do this, they can make it happen fairly easily. Kwon is saying that If the amateur golfer doesn’t do that and has the huge outward arm movement in transition, the fix is in a combination of delaying the opening of the shoulders and better sequencing. I happen to prefer this way of doing it.