Dr Kwon

[Forged4life]

2 hours ago, Hilts1969 said:

 

You couldn’t do it what a surprise:-)

 

Happy new year to you as well.

Oh the irony! Haha 

[Forged4life]

58 minutes ago, johnrobison said:

Yet you, yourself, have paid money for the retelling of drills and concepts that have been taught before. You must believe there's some merit in it.

 

Whether Dr Kwon is breaking new ground isn't really an objective thing - very little is wholly new - but many great instructors and very high-level players are using his research and methods to improve in ways they hadn't before. Look at the before and after of his students and you see a massive difference in sequencing which, for them, is in fact a huge step forward (no pun intended).

Don’t bring facts in here unless it’s new and no one has done it before. Apparently it only matters if so. 
 

really miss that old ignore feature unless I’m missing something. 

Edited January 1, 2022 by Forged4life

[Nels55]

I think that it is interesting especially in the latest video how Dr. Kwon gets the student doing the first step correctly and then moves on to the second step and then the student starts to mess up the first step again so back to square one.  After a while Kwon may start to work on the turn and arm motion and then the student will start to mess up step one and we are back to a reminder or a new thought to fix that first motion.  That is the learning process and something that I have been through with lessons a number of times.  LOL when I do the drills I can usually feel myself screwing up in a similar fashion though it is a lot more difficult to know how badly I am doing without an instructor there.  I have found the most recent video quite helpful because I am making a lot of the same mistakes that Bill Shea was or is making.  LOL he had been doing the drills on his own prior to his lesson and not very well...

 

 

[MPStrat]

2 hours ago, Hilts1969 said:

 

Never said every golfer does the same thing, please show me where I did. 

You said that if there is a difference between Rose and DJ’s lowering of the arms it is semantics. You are saying there isn’t a difference worth discussing. 

 

[Zitlow]

Happy New Year!

 

[anw79]

One thing I see Dr Kwon keep mentioning is the idea that taking the club back fast tends to lead to greater pelvis rotation/activation in backswing. Especially in the most recent video he keeps telling the guy to take it back fast but not to rush it down from the top.  I haven't heard this much before.  I'm far from an instruction expert however.

 

 

[Hilts1969]

4 hours ago, johnrobison said:

Yet you, yourself, have paid money for the retelling of drills and concepts that have been taught before. You must believe there's some merit in it.

 

Whether Dr Kwon is breaking new ground isn't really an objective thing - very little is wholly new - but many great instructors and very high-level players are using his research and methods to improve in ways they hadn't before. Look at the before and after of his students and you see a massive difference in sequencing which, for them, is in fact a huge step forward (no pun intended).

 

I’m not going round and round with this I never said there wasn’t any merit in it. I even said I’m trying to do similar. 

[MPStrat]

I wanted to share a video relevant to the discussion. For those who have not seen this, It might help you understand what Dr Kwon means when he says not to pull the arms down. If you are able to understand the concepts in this video it could be one of the most valuable things you’ve ever learned in the golf swing. It was for me. Or if you don’t understand it, you can dismiss it as rubbish and move on. I’m good with either. 
 

 

[Hilts1969]

3 hours ago, MPStrat said:

You said that if there is a difference between Rose and DJ’s lowering of the arms it is semantics. You are saying there isn’t a difference worth discussing. 

 

 

No I  said if you claimed he leaves his arm up and then backtracked  to not as much that is semantic. Seriously what is it on this thread that makes a couple of posters invent stuff. To clarify for the absolute last time.

 

The videos are good I’m trying to work on similar 

I wouldn’t pay that amount of money

All golfers lower their arms

wrist and arm  structure is vital to all swings and I don’t believe pivoting correctly automatically makes them correct.

 

can we move on please.

[MPStrat]

12 minutes ago, Hilts1969 said:

 

No I  said if you claimed he leaves his arm up and then backtracked  to not as much that is semantic. 

I didn’t backtrack. You are arguing semantics if you are talking about a tiny amount vs a huge amount. “All golfers pull their arms down” suggests that this idea of pulling the arms down is something not worth discussion because everyone does it. They don’t. How much has DJ lowered his lead arm relative to his shoulders here? We can’t say for sure, but the answer is almost none. His lead arm is in virtually the same place it was at the top of the backswing relative to him. 
 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 1, 2022 by MPStrat

[Forged4life]

Please start a “do the arms lower or not” thread. Thanks.

 

- everyone 

[ALIF]

2 minutes ago, Forged4life said:

Please start a “do the arms lower or not” thread. Thanks.

 

- everyone 

The guys from AMG have a video about the lead arm that goes into that a little bit. It talks about the lead arm abduction angle at the beginning of the swing at the top of the swing, and impact, etc.  i’d recommend watching it. 

[Zitlow]

 

 

35 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

I wanted to share a video relevant to the discussion. For those who have not seen this, It might help you understand what Dr Kwon means when he says not to pull the arms down. If you are able to understand the concepts in this video it could be one of the most valuable things you’ve ever learned in the golf swing. It was for me. Or if you don’t understand it, you can dismiss it as rubbish and move on. I’m good with either. 
 

 

 

Excellent, never heard this discussed before outside of Mike. Relationship between the left arm and left shoulder, he called it a figure 7. A metaphor he used was the left arm is a spoke on a wheel, the shoulders are the hub, 

 

 

Besides maintaining the figure 7 until after impact another cornerstone was to address off the left side and strike it off the right side.

 

[Golfbeat]

1 hour ago, MPStrat said:

I wanted to share a video relevant to the discussion. For those who have not seen this, It might help you understand what Dr Kwon means when he says not to pull the arms down. If you are able to understand the concepts in this video it could be one of the most valuable things you’ve ever learned in the golf swing. It was for me. Or if you don’t understand it, you can dismiss it as rubbish and move on. I’m good with either. 
 

 

 

It that Martin Ayers of Secret Golf? Long time ago, he had some strange (secret ) back swing move that he could not really explain in words. I get the same feeling here. Cannot explain what he wants somebody to do.

Edited January 1, 2022 by Golfbeat

[MPStrat]

5 minutes ago, Golfbeat said:

 

It that Martin Ayers of Secret Golf? Long time ago, he had some strange (secret ) back swing move that he could not really explain in words. I get the same feeling here. Cannot explain what he wants somebody to do.

This concept is extremely simple but it’s a perception thing vs an anatomical checklist. He wants the golfer to stay, from their perception, inside and under the lead arm. Think of the lead arm from your perception in the swing, as a barricade between yourself and the ball. If the golfer keeps their body inside and under this barricade, they will reap the potential advantages that he highlights. If they pull down, the barricade has been crossed. 

[Deadaimz]

1 hour ago, Zitlow said:

 

 

 

Excellent, never heard this discussed before outside of Mike. Relationship between the left arm and left shoulder, he called it a figure 7. A metaphor he used was the left arm is a spoke on a wheel, the shoulders are the hub, 

 

 

Besides maintaining the figure 7 until after impact another cornerstone was to address off the left side and strike it off the right side.

 

Mike seemed to teach this long ago. Very similar.

 

 

[RichieHunt]

9 hours ago, Nels55 said:

I am curious about something here...  I have read a number of comments that what Dr. Kwon is teaching is nothing new and the step drills seem to be considered common place.  In my case I have read books, taken lessons and watched videos for 50 years or more starting with books and magazine articles and I have never seen or been taught drills in this manner.  I have done step drills but they were more along the lines of swinging like a baseball player and not at all like what Dr. Kwon is teaching.  So, I am wondering how many of you out there have done drills duplicating what Dr. Kwon is teaching in these videos?  Or perhaps you have been taught this motion in a different manner?

 

I've seen some step drills similar to that before Dr. Kwon came along.  They may not have the steps quite the same (feet together, move the trail foot out first, etc).  

 

One old drill and discussion talked about that was similar was taking an old golf club and taking a swing and then literally chucking the golf club out toward the target.  

 

In fact a few years ago I was watching a YouTube video of angry golfers and one guy who was probably a 5 handicap made a bad swing on a par-3 and then immediately swung the club again and chucked the club towards the target.  If his golf swing motion was the same as his chucking the golf club motion, he'd easily have a Tour pro level golf swing.

 

I've seen similar rope drills.  bucket drills as well.  But most of them are really meant for the downswing motion rather than the backswing and downswing motion.  

 

So it's not wholly new, but there are plenty of nuances that are new or a better understanding of those nuances.

 

It's much like the ball flight laws when D-Plane was discovered.  Conventional instruction usually had them wrong.  Many instructors had them right, but didn't understand all of the nuances like horizontal and vertical gear effect, spin loft, how the loft of the club changes the influence of the ball's starting direction, attack angle its influence on ball flight and path, etc.

 

 

 

RH

[Golfbeat]

5 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

This concept is extremely simple but it’s a perception thing vs an anatomical checklist. He wants the golfer to stay, from their perception, inside and under the lead arm. Think of the lead arm from your perception in the swing, as a barricade between yourself and the ball. If the golfer keeps their body inside and under this barricade, they will reap the potential advantages that he highlights. If they pull down, the barricade has been crossed. 

 

So kind of throwing your right arm/side under your left arm?

[PeterPing]

To bad jack Ben Sam and lee didn’t have these video’s  in their day. Just think of how good they could of been. 

Edited January 2, 2022 by PeterPing

[MPStrat]

1 minute ago, Golfbeat said:

 

So kind of throwing your right arm/side under your left arm?

You’re on the right track. I would say the throwing the right side part will be an individual thing. The big key is whatever takes place in the swing should happen inside and under the lead arm. If I’m not clear on something I apologize. It is an easy thing to understand but not an easy thing to say in words. 

[Zitlow]

8 minutes ago, Deadaimz said:

Mike seemed to teach this long ago. Very similar.

 

 

 

Mike hated dropping the left arm, don't tell Justin Rose i said that. He told me that he charged for the golf lessons but the cursing lessons were free. lol

[dblinden]

https://www.instagram.com/mytpi/p/CYKWxaDv4Od/?utm_medium=copy_link.  
 

Not sure who this is, but somebody needs to tell him to quit dropping his arms on the downswing. 

[MPStrat]

8 minutes ago, dblinden said:

https://www.instagram.com/mytpi/p/CYKWxaDv4Od/?utm_medium=copy_link.  
 

Not sure who this is, but somebody needs to tell him to quit dropping his arms on the downswing. 

Rahm most definitely pulls down. He does something similar to the Malaska move. I said a few pages ago that half of the top 10 players in the world pull down. However, exactly none of the small guys who bomb it do that. 

[Simpsonia]

37 minutes ago, Golfbeat said:

 

So kind of throwing your right arm/side under your left arm?

 

 

[glk]

Here is my understand of the arm drop.

 

arms go up relative to the ground.    Relative to the body arms don’t go up much - some more than others.   Long ago in a discussion inthe right arm, I believe, iteach pointed out using monte as an example that his right elbow stays pretty much in the same spot relative to his body.  A combo of the turn on a tilt and trail elbow folding raise the arms a bit - Dana wants higher hands and wants the left upper arm to go above the left pec.  So you have a spectrum from, say, kuchar to bubba relative to where their left upper arms raises.   As opposed to pulling the arms down - which the Justin rose drill is not an example, a typical transition will have the chest turn a bit into the upper left arm - adduction which is a part of shallowing - and a bit of lowering of the body which  keep the upper left arm relatively in the same place.  And the right elbow is begining to extended and move hands away from the shoulder.   Ultimately the right elbow extending and left wrist unhinging get the club back down.   The left arm comes along for the ride.

 

tyler Ferrell has an old video on this where he gives an intent of kiss your bicep in transitiOn and he talks about on 3D He sees thE left arm rise a bit in transition relative to the body.  All this in under the .1 sec or so of the transition.
 

so no independent pulling of the arms needed.

 

lots of reasons why folks pull the arms down - hold the lag, go wide to narrow, arms were never synch with pivot to start and players needs to try and catch them up are a few.   
 

the guy in the lastest kwon video makes his most progress once dr. Kwon works with him to address his use of his right arm.   Once they get that piece going it is off to the races - about 45 minutes in I believe

 

I would imagine this guy thought he was to inflexible to make the after swing - yes he isn’t a youngster but he did pretty well

 

 before

 

after

Edited January 1, 2022 by glk

[Forged4life]

53 minutes ago, Deadaimz said:

Mike seemed to teach this long ago. Very similar.

 

 

What a peach 😂

[PracticeSwinger]

Is it me or the last few pages have been back and forth : guys misunderstanding each other; arms going down towards the ground in transition versus arms staying at the same angle relative to your chest / rotation… and videos poorly explaining scapula protraction and it’s effect on the arm/chest angle ?

[tthomasgolfer605]

For $500, I'll give an on course lesson and provide the strippers. Any takers?

[CasualLie]

2 minutes ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

For $500, I'll give an on course lesson and provide the strippers. Any takers?

 

Pics of strippers please...

[Hilts1969]

3 minutes ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

For $500, I'll give an on course lesson and provide the strippers. Any takers?

 

Do I have to sit on my hands or hold them up in the air:-)

Edited January 1, 2022 by Hilts1969