Dr Kwon

[mikpga]

For those who follow Dr. Kwon...

 

Does his research primarily focus on how to maximize speed?

 

 

[Zitlow]

21 minutes ago, glk said:

By the shoulder turning not the arms pulling!    How does one turn the shoulders and not do a combo of pull and push?
 

 

Okay, whatever makes you happy. 

 

@glkI went back and reread your post. I apologize for reacting too quickly.

 

You're right in that he's not pulling with his left arm, he's using his left shoulder to pull his left arm which is pulling the club. 

 

Maybe I misheard but at 11 seconds in it sounds like Dr. Kwon is telling Brendon to pull it. At any rate it looks like a pulling motion to me. 

 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2021 by Zitlow

[glk]

2 minutes ago, mikpga said:

For those who follow Dr. Kwon...

 

Does his research primarily focus on how to maximize speed?

 

 

I would say no but it is a effect.   

 

1 minute ago, Zitlow said:

 

Okay, whatever makes you happy. 

What would make me happy is for you to post on things about dr kwon and not sidetrack this thread to Austin.

Edited December 29, 2021 by glk

[Forged4life]

Just now, glk said:

I would say no but it is a effect.   

 

What would make me happy is for you to post on things about dr kwon and not sidetrack this thread to Austin.

It’s all about Austin with Zitlow 😄

[Zitlow]

1 minute ago, glk said:

I would say no but it is a effect.   

 

What would make me happy is for you to post on things about dr kwon and not sidetrack this thread to Austin.

 

I've posted a lot about Dr Kwon and aspects of his concept I like that line up with what I was taught by Mike Austin. This is a golf discussion and I hope you don't mind if I post some aspects that I don't agree with. 

[MrHateCoffee]

5 hours ago, AndersUK said:

 

Dr Kwon is different league IMO.  He teaches with more certainty and authority than any other coach I have seen deliver a live lesson save for Gankas.  It is also the best gradient to learning a golf swing that I have ever seen.  

 

Brendon is no hack and he needed a lot of continuous hands-on correction to progress through each stage, which goes to show how many gradients most amateurs miss during learning the golf swing. This is his best content to date by far but I agree he lacks basic communication skills and is constantly distracted by roaming thoughts.

 

For me Kwon and Gankas are pioneers right now when it comes to golf coaching.

 

thanks.  I listened to the Beaumont interview.  One thing I want to better understand is his opinion on wrist angles and face control, as these two issues have been the bane of my golf existence.  In the interview with Beaumont he kept saying not to think about it and it would take care of itself.  In my experience it's not that simple, as I can generate good speed through a body swing but have the ball slice to the moon.  I'd like to also see more footage of his students hitting balls.  

[PJ1120]

Is Kwon's thoughts on the body movement similar to what Jimmy Ballard advocated?

[Forged4life]

43 minutes ago, MrHateCoffee said:

 

thanks.  I listened to the Beaumont interview.  One thing I want to better understand is his opinion on wrist angles and face control, as these two issues have been the bane of my golf existence.  In the interview with Beaumont he kept saying not to think about it and it would take care of itself.  In my experience it's not that simple, as I can generate good speed through a body swing but have the ball slice to the moon.  I'd like to also see more footage of his students hitting balls.  

He says the arms and hands are the small muscles so they do the lighter lifting so to speak not apply power. The arms direct the momentum and the wrists hands square the face 

[rondo01]

 

39 minutes ago, MrHateCoffee said:

In the interview with Beaumont he kept saying not to think about it and it would take care of itself.  In my experience it's not that simple, as I can generate good speed through a body swing but have the ball slice to the moon.  I'd like to also see more footage of his students hitting balls.  

I believe he’d say something along the lines of: the force has to be directed in the appropriate direction(s). If that’s done properly, the wrists will react appropriately. Same logic on the backswing applies on the down. Not saying it’s not hard as hell to appropriately work with the pressures. 
 

for instance.

 

 

[Scyukon]

So my 3/8 rope just arrived. I bought a 15 length and quaded it up as could not find 7 ft 3/4 inch locally.

 

anyways, 20 rope swings later I proceeded to hit 3 drives of 260, 252 and 251 on the skytrak. Crushed a couple even harder that did not get picked up. For a 225-230 yard guy, a promising outcome.

 

I feel like Mr Robot (last scene) where his life comes flooding back, but this time it’s all the way through my Ballard, Knudsen, Austin, zen and loop de loop swing phases. It’s like my whole golfing journey of 45 years leading to this. Very exciting.

 

ps and no back pain!!!!

Edited December 29, 2021 by Scyukon

[CasualLie]

I really do not see anything "new" here.  It's just another way to describe pretty similar concepts from several instructors.  Brendon has had this same lesson in another form many times!  it's all good stuff, but for those of you out there following, do not be like Brendon chasing the latest instructor.  He's providing great entertainment. and exposing people to many good swing ideas, but it is far from a blueprint to get better which is ironic given his youtube channel name!

 

You can pick his stuff with Kwon, Monte, Malaska, etc...just pick one that seems right to you, and focus on one area of your game, find the video that speaks to that one thing, and work on just that for a long, long time...longer than you think.  Of course, evaluate every 30-40 hours of actual work on that one thing if it still resonates for you.  I still think the best combination I have had in instruction is AMG for the really technical and Monte to get it all to make sense and resonate.  My brain needs the technical just to get it to stop questioning things, but my game needs the genius of Monte to make it work for me.

 

It takes a long time to really get better and change a move.  It takes a lot of discipline.  Case in point, of how not to do it.  Look at the two guys from "chasing scratch".  Another member here recommended their podcast and so I listened to about 5 hours of episodes on a long drive.  Ya..they will never be scratch at the rate they are going.  Their podcast is obviously entertaining for some (not me, I find them fairly dumb), but it is just entertainment, not a blueprint for success.  I am shocked they even keep their index around 7 and apparently once a 3!

 

 

 

 

[rondo01]

9 minutes ago, CasualLie said:

I really do not see anything "new" here.  It's just another way to describe pretty similar concepts from several instructors. 

1. not to beat a dead horse, but while this info isn’t necessarily new, hearing it from the “horses mouth” is significant. Before this you had to get this information from a second hand source which undoubtedly created a filter. 
 

2. New video of Kwon working with a 13 handicap. 
 

 

 

[CasualLie]

1 minute ago, rondo01 said:

1. not to beat a dead horse, but while this info isn’t necessarily new, hearing it from the “horses mouth” is significant. Before this you had to get this information from a second hand source which undoubtedly created a filter. 
 

2. New video of Kwon working with a 13 handicap. 
 

 

 

 

True! Don't get me wrong, my intent was to point out that Dr Kwon is not some radical peddling a new paradigm or telling it wrong.  It is consistent with some very good instructors out there.

[johnrobison]

1 hour ago, Zitlow said:

 

The golf ball isn't heavy and besides Austin wasn't trying to push the golf ball down the fairway. 

My point was that your analogy to punching someone is about as relevant 

[Scyukon]

The reason I get so excited is that after 20 rope swings I pick up 20 yards. I have been struggling for a long time now to be able to get a drill that would allow me to improve my kinetic sequence without injuring my back. A teacher at TPC Scottsdale suggested the rope drill to me 5 years ago during a lesson but I bought an orange whip instead (silly me) and tried using it to achieve the same outcome.

 

I now understand why the loop de loop swing  from 25 years ago was so powerful was because the out to in loop at the top of my swing was keeping my shoulders turned while I was shifting weight towards the target - it was literally an extra 40 yards that I did not understand (at that time) the cause of.

 

Seeing Dr Kwon and the AMG guys explain this concept finally crystallized it for me.

 

Wish I knew this 25 years ago but better late than never. 

Edited December 29, 2021 by Scyukon

[airjammer]

6 hours ago, Zitlow said:

 

Okay, whatever makes you happy. 

 

@glkI went back and reread your post. I apologize for reacting too quickly.

 

You're right in that he's not pulling with his left arm, he's using his left shoulder to pull his left arm which is pulling the club. 

 

Maybe I misheard but at 11 seconds in it sounds like Dr. Kwon is telling Brendon to pull it. At any rate it looks like a pulling motion to me. 

 

 

 

 

He absolutely is tell him to pull with his left arm via his left shoulder. The difference between Dr. Kwon wants him to do and what he does and 99% of all golfer do is Dr. kwon wants him to blast the left arm off the chest versus pin the arm on the chest pull forever. 
 

Imo what Kwon is training him to do is exactly what Austin demonstrated in his rope left arm. If you look closely the rope gets tight for a brief moment in transition and then loosens. Austin blasts his left arm of his chest via the left lat stretch and then looks like manages the club with the right arm/hand. 

[MPStrat]

On 12/29/2021 at 12:27 PM, CasualLie said:

 

True! Don't get me wrong, my intent was to point out that Dr Kwon is not some radical peddling a new paradigm or telling it wrong.  It is consistent with some very good instructors out there.

Many of whom learned from him and are putting their own spin on it. In some ways it has become the telephone game. 

 

On 12/29/2021 at 8:28 AM, Hilts1969 said:

I think a lot of instructors have different ideas although set up seems the most conforming across the board. I watch a lot of Monte, AMG, Gankas and milo lines and knowing quite a bit of Malaska stuff as well as watching this latest Dr Kwon piece. If I had the means I would go and see Monte and AMG tbh. 

For clarity, AMG is trying to teach their version of Kwon with arm lowering and cherry picked gears data. They talk about pulling the grip down with force in transition. If that idea appeals to you or matches your swing, most definitely follow their marketing. 

 

On 12/29/2021 at 10:46 AM, Zitlow said:

 

I've posted a lot about Dr Kwon and aspects of his concept I like that line up with what I was taught by Mike Austin. This is a golf discussion and I hope you don't mind if I post some aspects that I don't agree with. 

 I personally don’t mind your questioning of anything. I think it’s good for everyone to be skeptical and tear these things apart. 
 

Kwon doesn’t want a drag though impact. He wants the sequence to run the show. He talks about perceived effort levels in the backswing and downswing aiding in throwing out the clubhead. . Not a throw, not a pull, not a push. 

 

On 12/29/2021 at 10:49 AM, MrHateCoffee said:

 

thanks.  I listened to the Beaumont interview.  One thing I want to better understand is his opinion on wrist angles and face control, as these two issues have been the bane of my golf existence.  In the interview with Beaumont he kept saying not to think about it and it would take care of itself.  In my experience it's not that simple, as I can generate good speed through a body swing but have the ball slice to the moon.  I'd like to also see more footage of his students hitting balls.  

Completely agree with this. It is not that simple.

Edited December 30, 2021 by MPStrat

[RichieHunt]

On 12/27/2021 at 7:42 PM, Zitlow said:

@RichieHunt Austin was flying the ball over 300 yards with a hickory shafted driver at East Lake country club when he was 15. When he was in his prime he was clocked at 150MPH. 

 

Maybe Bryson can swing a club at 150MPH but there's more to hitting a golf ball extremely long than raw club head speed. You also need to apply mass to the ball as well, The mass of Austin's right side followed the club head into the ball. He wasn't dragging the club head through the ball with his left arm or left side like most people do. 

 

 

If you learn how to use your joints according to their design you won't have back issues. I hope Bryson stays healthy but he may have back issues down the road according to some orthopedic surgeons and some of his peers on tour. How many back surgeries has Tiger had? 

 

 

 

Mike Austin was more myth than fact, even his devout followers like Steve Pratt have admitted as such.  If he was using a 45-46" modern driver with a Titleist Pro V1, he wouldn't be reaching 195 mph ball speeds.

 

 

 

 

RH

[Forged4life]

23 minutes ago, RichieHunt said:

 

Mike Austin was more myth than fact, even his devout followers like Steve Pratt have admitted as such.  If he was using a 45-46" modern driver with a Titleist Pro V1, he wouldn't be reaching 195 mph ball speeds.

 

 

 

 

RH

Why not? If he was clocking that fast with persimmon and balata (if it’s true) then wouldn’t he be faster with a longer driver and solid core low spin ball? 

[PracticeSwinger]

1 hour ago, RichieHunt said:

 

Mike Austin was more myth than fact, even his devout followers like Steve Pratt have admitted as such.  If he was using a 45-46" modern driver with a Titleist Pro V1, he wouldn't be reaching 195 mph ball speeds.

 

 

 

 

RH

I’m guessing there’s a guy, somewhere, that just had a heart attack reading this…

[Zitlow]

2 hours ago, airjammer said:

He absolutely is tell him to pull with his left arm via his left shoulder. The difference between Dr. Kwon wants him to do and what he does and 99% of all golfer do is Dr. kwon wants him to blast the left arm off the chest versus pin the arm on the chest pull forever. 
 

Imo what Kwon is training him to do is exactly what Austin demonstrated in his rope left arm. If you look closely the rope gets tight for a brief moment in transition and then loosens. Austin blasts his left arm of his chest via the left lat stretch and then looks like manages the club with the right arm/hand. 

 

I like Dr. Kwon, in my view he's state of the art compared to what else is out there. There may be others but he's the first teacher I've heard talking about the importance of using the lower body to work the upper body and using quickness and momentum in the swing. 

 

Austin actively used his hands to work the club head in his swing. From a body motion perspective you can see what differentiated Austin from Dr. Kwon from his transition down.

 

 

 

 

[Zitlow]

10 minutes ago, MtlJayMan said:

I’m guessing there’s a guy, somewhere, that just had a heart attack reading this…

 

No problem, people are entitled to their own opinions and viewpoints. I'm not so weak minded that I let what people say in a forum trigger me. 🙂

 

Just like in a golf match you want to be the one applying the pressure not the one feeling the pressure. I have some down time for a little longer and watched a replay of this years US Open today. I felt bad for Bryson who I like to follow when he was breaking down on the back nine. I have to hand it to Rahm, he stepped up and clutched out down the stretch.

 

 

[Forged4life]

21 minutes ago, Zitlow said:

 

I like Dr. Kwon, in my view he's state of the art compared to what else is out there. There may be others but he's the first teacher I've heard talking about the importance of using the lower body to work the upper body and using quickness and momentum in the swing. 

 

Austin actively used his hands to work the club head in his swing. From a body motion perspective you can see what differentiated Austin from Dr. Kwon from his transition down.

 

 

 

 

To those that can’t see it can you please explain the differences? 

[rondo01]

4 minutes ago, Forged4life said:

To those that can’t see it can you please explain the differences? 

oh god no. Please just start another thread on Austin’s swing 🤦‍♂️

[liquorandpoker]

On 12/26/2021 at 5:36 PM, jobin said:

He ought to ditch the hat, rather disrespectful to Dr. Kwon.  After all, he is in a room without windows, in someone else's work space and even the best of hats do not a golfer make.

Do you wear a hat at night during the summer, in an elevator, at church or in the boss's office?

 

He has hair like Big Ern. He DOES NOT want to take that hat off.

 

 

[Hilts1969]

10 hours ago, MPStrat said:

For clarity, AMG is trying to teach their version of Kwon with arm lowering and cherry picked gears data. They talk about pulling the grip down with force in transition. If that idea appeals to you or matches your swing, most definitely follow their marketing. 

 

I'm aware of the pivot ie small sway,re-centre, fall and turn hence I wouldn't pay kwon $500 -$2000 for something I got for nothing. 

 

They don't want you to leave the arms up while you transition. The arms fall in every golf swing and you must either push or pull. They teach a bit of both.

 

The pivot action across the board is very similar. The main difference is the use of the arms. The problem with Lines and Gankas is they start off with the notion the arms magically behave only at a later date to then back track and advise how to use them.

 

I couldn't tell you if Kwon sticks to his miracle just sling them notion. 

 

From what I have seen and it's lot the only difference between AMG and Monte is the point when the wrist angles come in to play.

[Nels55]

2 hours ago, Hilts1969 said:

 

I'm aware of the pivot ie small sway,re-centre, fall and turn hence I wouldn't pay kwon $500 -$2000 for something I got for nothing. 

 

They don't want you to leave the arms up while you transition. The arms fall in every golf swing and you must either push or pull. They teach a bit of both.

 

The pivot action across the board is very similar. The main difference is the use of the arms. The problem with Lines and Gankas is they start off with the notion the arms magically behave only at a later date to then back track and advise how to use them.

 

I couldn't tell you if Kwon sticks to his miracle just sling them notion. 

 

From what I have seen and it's lot the only difference between AMG and Monte is the point when the wrist angles come in to play.

 

I am hearing you say that if you had a lesson with Dr. Kwon he would not be able to help you because you would do the step drills perfectly?  

[Hilts1969]

1 hour ago, Nels55 said:

 

I am hearing you say that if you had a lesson with Dr. Kwon he would not be able to help you because you would do the step drills perfectly?  

 

No I'm not paying stupid money for one. Being thousands of Miles away doesn't help either:-)

 

The step drill isn't some quantum physics that only the great Dr Kwon can solve.

 

I've made him sound like a Bond or Flash Gordon villain haha

[glk]

9 minutes ago, Hilts1969 said:

 

No I'm not paying stupid money for one. Being thousands of Miles away doesn't help either:-)

 

The step drill isn't some quantum physics that only the great Dr Kwon can solve.

 

I've made him sound like a Bond or Flash Gordon villain haha

Just an fyi if you weren’t aware but the $500 donation to twu scholarship fund gets one 3 hours - first two hours are a 3D motion and force plate capture using three different clubs - a hour of swings and an hour of discussion then the hour Of drills.

[Zitlow]

Brendon has a frenetic personality which is reflected in his golf swing. Dr Kwon has a congenial personality and a certain je ne sais quoi.