Dr Kwon

[Nels55]

7 hours ago, glk said:

This is typical of too flat of a turn.  Upper body sway.

 

 Your left knee has to work straight out toward your toes - this drops the left hip and always you to side bend to have a good shoulder tilt which will get your shoulder under your chin.  Too flat hips leads to too flat shoulders.   Your left knee now works too much inward and not enough outward.   Need to get that left shoulder under your chin.
 

 

That drill is about as far from Dr. Kwon's teaching as can imagine!  Instead of continuous motion, shift-turn, shift-turn we have put your head against a wall and rotate! 

I do often feel like my game is similar to banging my head against a wall though...

[Hilts1969]

23 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

That drill is about as far from Dr. Kwon's teaching as can imagine!  Instead of continuous motion, shift-turn, shift-turn we have put your head against a wall and rotate! 

I do often feel like my game is similar to banging my head against a wall though...

 

This is why the drill Dr kwon shows with the hips is so important because shifting and turning level is easier and more natural. Tilting and staying in tilt is harder than some imagine. Personally I find it easier with a hip movement because the shoulders naturally follow.

[leekgolf]

10 hours ago, glk said:

This is typical of too flat of a turn.  Upper body sway.

 

 Your left knee has to work straight out toward your toes - this drops the left hip and always you to side bend to have a good shoulder tilt which will get your shoulder under your chin.  Too flat hips leads to too flat shoulders.   Your left knee now works too much inward and not enough outward.   Need to get that left shoulder under your chin.
 

 

One of the all-time great videos. Most people I play with could benefit from this.

 

Lots of teachers tried to get my backswing more upright without success. 

 

When you shared this with me several years ago, it really opened my eyes.

[leekgolf]

3 hours ago, Nels55 said:

That drill is about as far from Dr. Kwon's teaching as can imagine!  Instead of continuous motion, shift-turn, shift-turn we have put your head against a wall and rotate! 

I do often feel like my game is similar to banging my head against a wall though...

We have to turn our shoulders on some plane. This plane helps get rid of the dreaded inside takeaway. Doing this helps stop getting the club behind the golfer. It also promotes a pivot driven backswing instead of taking it back with the hands and arms only. 

 

This works well with Dr. Kwon's drills.

[Duffer Mark]

Thanks @glk and @pressure for the insights and comments. I just recently started using the weight shift as a trigger to start the swing after listening to Dr. Kwon mention not starting from a static position. Of course, after watching the video and reading the feedback, that's not working for me. lol

 

I'd say the drill glk linked to is certainly inline with Kwon's teaching. It's just a drill to get the body in the proper position. I've heard Kwon speak against swaying and a shift-turn is not a sway. I'll be working on this.

[Daniel Eason]

Tilting is easy when not in motion, its the feel of tilting right with ground and pelvis moving correct that's the difficult bit. 

 

Worked the feeling of getting hip higher today in backswing and then on downswing pushing forward into the ground to push back. 

 

 

Still far too flat. 

I think I need to now do rope drills for the next few weeks. 

[Nels55]

10 hours ago, Duffer Mark said:

Thanks @glk and @pressure for the insights and comments. I just recently started using the weight shift as a trigger to start the swing after listening to Dr. Kwon mention not starting from a static position. Of course, after watching the video and reading the feedback, that's not working for me. lol

 

I'd say the drill glk linked to is certainly inline with Kwon's teaching. It's just a drill to get the body in the proper position. I've heard Kwon speak against swaying and a shift-turn is not a sway. I'll be working on this.

If you really want to learn Dr. Kwon's teaching then I would suggest the following.

 

First find a student that Kwon is teaching on youtube who is similar to you in build and ability and then watch the teaching video(s) at least every a day.  Maybe only for a few minutes but put some time in.

 

Second do the drills.  All of the them to the best of your ability and video constantly.  Look at the video in slo mo and compare what you are doing to what Kwon's student is doing and try to apply the corrections that Kwon is giving the student.   It is my observation that Kwon teaches in levels and what gets a hand clap early on has room for improvement later.

 

This is a very difficult road to take but it might work.  Obviously the best option is to go see Dr. Kwon in person but I can see where that could be difficult.  

 

 

[Golfbeat]

A trigger move here.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CZ7FHlFJKCP/

 

[ksnll]

Great topic. I've stopped playing for a few months and now that I'm back at it, it helps to have a dynamic move without too many thoughts of specific positions. Got me back into my game pretty quickly

 

Now a concept that Dr. Kwon expressed in his videos for some players, is to keep the back to the target a bit longer. And that by pressing forward, the arms should drop.

I'm not sure if I understand the concept fully. If it's the upper torso that rotates the arms, how can it be that the arms move (or drop) when you keep the back to the target? hopefully, someone can shed some light!

[Hilts1969]

3 hours ago, ksnll said:

Great topic. I've stopped playing for a few months and now that I'm back at it, it helps to have a dynamic move without too many thoughts of specific positions. Got me back into my game pretty quickly

 

Now a concept that Dr. Kwon expressed in his videos for some players, is to keep the back to the target a bit longer. And that by pressing forward, the arms should drop.

I'm not sure if I understand the concept fully. If it's the upper torso that rotates the arms, how can it be that the arms move (or drop) when you keep the back to the target? hopefully, someone can shed some light!

 

My arms drop if I do a freezer(pause at the top) it's kind of a momentum thing as it takes effort to keep them up. If you are speeding up the backswing and correctly using the hips they will drop. I need to let the left arm drop down the chest as I'm a world champ puller at the ball with bad wrist angles.

 

It's all part of the 'mature' top of the swing/transition. Things slow but don't stop. Different phrases for different instructors. Basically it's syncing the arms with the chest with less technical thoughts.

 

Do it, video it and see the pitch of the shaft. Unless you are seeing an instructor there will have to be some self analysis.

[glk]

4 hours ago, ksnll said:

Great topic. I've stopped playing for a few months and now that I'm back at it, it helps to have a dynamic move without too many thoughts of specific positions. Got me back into my game pretty quickly

 

Now a concept that Dr. Kwon expressed in his videos for some players, is to keep the back to the target a bit longer. And that by pressing forward, the arms should drop.

I'm not sure if I understand the concept fully. If it's the upper torso that rotates the arms, how can it be that the arms move (or drop) when you keep the back to the target? hopefully, someone can shed some light!

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CXwHFLmNfNP/

[zacgolf]

 

[TurnDog69]

How does right side bend get blended into these moves. It seems straightfoward from the perspective of pressure shift and allowing the swing to be more flowing and athletic, but for me, I'm struggling with the arms being dead straight fully extended at impact

[MK7Golf21]

On 2/10/2022 at 4:19 PM, Daniel Eason said:

 

Maybe, i personally Don't feel anything in arms. Just pushing off the left side to start continuous motion. 

 

I need to do some experiments. 

 

probably the most common swing error, second being early extension. It takes opposite feels for most to stop doing it even if you feel like you aren't using the arms at all. However, it is a strange feeling for most because it's almost the opposite feeling of the downswing so many struggle with it all their lives.

[Daniel Eason]

Took some time yesterday to do some Shift/Turn drills. 

 

Good feel is getting the feeling Kwon says to have in his YT video on the SHURN method at 6mins. It's the thing I'm not doing more noticeably in the downswing EARLY enough so my turn as some of you have said is too flat because im not pushing down enough.

 

Before/after will take a while to be more noticeable but on mevo+ im seeing far less spin axis on the ball and better AoA.

 

 

 

 

 

[me05501]

17 hours ago, Daniel Eason said:

Took some time yesterday to do some Shift/Turn drills. 

 

Good feel is getting the feeling Kwon says to have in his YT video on the SHURN method at 6mins. It's the thing I'm not doing more noticeably in the downswing EARLY enough so my turn as some of you have said is too flat because im not pushing down enough.

 

Before/after will take a while to be more noticeable but on mevo+ im seeing far less spin axis on the ball and better AoA.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is interesting. The idea of focusing on the rotation on the pelvis rather than the shoulders seems like an "a ha" moment. 

[Nels55]

2 hours ago, me05501 said:

 

This is interesting. The idea of focusing on the rotation on the pelvis rather than the shoulders seems like an "a ha" moment. 

Yes, for sure.  Dr. Kwon talks a lot about the shoulders staying closed during the re-centering movement.  Keeping the back to the target during transition. 

 

For me it is tricky to get the hips to move laterally going back and then it is also tricky to keep from over doing the lateral motion forward.  Getting the hips past the lead foot on the through swing is a really bad idea and can definitely cause injury.  He talks a lot about 'kicking the ground' which is obviously related to the hips staying inside the stance but moving in the triangle shape with the head remaining fairly quiet.  I find the rope drill to be really useful for practicing those movements.  The rope drill allows a lot of reps in a short time which is good to try to get the feel of it.  Of course it also allows for a lot of reps of incorrect movement if I am not careful...

 

One thing to note is that if the drills are done correctly it is impossible to 'sway'.  A person cannot kick the ground from a swayed position.

 

 

[me05501]

4 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

Yes, for sure.  Dr. Kwon talks a lot about the shoulders staying closed during the re-centering movement.  Keeping the back to the target during transition. 

 

For me it is tricky to get the hips to move laterally going back and then it is also tricky to keep from over doing the lateral motion forward.  Getting the hips past the lead foot on the through swing is a really bad idea and can definitely cause injury.  He talks a lot about 'kicking the ground' which is obviously related to the hips staying inside the stance but moving in the triangle shape with the head remaining fairly quiet.  I find the rope drill to be really useful for practicing those movements.  The rope drill allows a lot of reps in a short time which is good to try to get the feel of it.  Of course it also allows for a lot of reps of incorrect movement if I am not careful...

 

One thing to note is that if the drills are done correctly it is impossible to 'sway'.  A person cannot kick the ground from a swayed position.

 

 

 

Agree. 

 

I have only had one round on the course where I trusted the "shift/turn/shift/turn" feel and it was great. For some reason I can't seem to trust it all the time, and I think it's because it is easy to overdo it. It's subtle. 

[airjammer]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CZzNe3esoV9/?utm_medium=copy_link
 

someone’s work on their shift turn shift turn

[Nels55]

At the 53:15 mark Dr. Kwon talks about the reverse pivot position.  This is really key for me and it's taking a while to get that ingrained LOL.  I tend to revert back to my wrong way hip turn which is the same as what the student was doing.  When I do that one thing somewhat correctly I hit the ball a lot better.

 

 

Edited February 15, 2022 by Nels55

[BottleCap]

Is Dr Kwon going to fix Brendon's low inside takeaway? It's painful to look at at after years and years, it's holding him back.

[Simpsonia]

I've been trying to follow as many of Dr. Kwon's videos as I can, but I do have a question. In his demonstrations of the SHURN, he does talk about the importance of keeping the back to the target through the whole lateral motion, as well as the asynchronous nature of the lateral shift, starting with the lower body. However, in his demonstrations, it seems that once the lateral shift is over and it's time to turn, it looks like the turn he advocates is very synchronous in keeping the shoulders and pelvis moving as one unit. Even his Haerim-dance video appears to be pretty synchronous in the actual turn portion. It's clear from GEARS and even just watching slomo videos that most tour pros generate a good amount of separation between the shoulders and the pelvis. Maybe I'm overthinking this, or the separation only happens at full speed. Just curious how this separation plays into the drills and intents. 

[MK7Golf21]

12 hours ago, BottleCap said:

Is Dr Kwon going to fix Brendon's low inside takeaway? It's painful to look at at after years and years, it's holding him back.

 

There is a secret if I can call it that to fixing inside takeaway. Makes it feel more natural

[Nels55]

6 minutes ago, Simpsonia said:

I've been trying to follow as many of Dr. Kwon's videos as I can, but I do have a question. In his demonstrations of the SHURN, he does talk about the importance of keeping the back to the target through the whole lateral motion, as well as the asynchronous nature of the lateral shift, starting with the lower body. However, in his demonstrations, it seems that once the lateral shift is over and it's time to turn, it looks like the turn he advocates is very synchronous in keeping the shoulders and pelvis moving as one unit. Even his Haerim-dance video appears to be pretty synchronous in the actual turn portion. It's clear from GEARS and even just watching slomo videos that most tour pros generate a good amount of separation between the shoulders and the pelvis. Maybe I'm overthinking this, or the separation only happens at full speed. Just curious how this separation plays into the drills and intents. 

I have had the same thoughts regarding that drill.  I think that the shift turn with the kettlebell etc. is intended to train the lateral movement of the hips and late shoulder turn.  LOL this is something that I have definitely come up against while doing the drills and sometimes I have felt like I was keeping my hips closed a bit too long while doing step drills or even hitting the ball.  I usually end up going over my lead foot too far with my hip when I do that.  So for me the answer seems to be to not worry about and just let the swing happen while getting the kick the ground sort of feeling with the trial foot and the lead foot.  A good image for me is the head staying somewhat quiet while the hips move within the triangle.  

 

Anyway I think that some of the drills are meant to exaggerate certain movements to overcome the more basic problems that most golfers have.  LOL that's the best that I have on the subject as I am in the early stages of trying to learn this swing.  

[me05501]

21 minutes ago, Simpsonia said:

I've been trying to follow as many of Dr. Kwon's videos as I can, but I do have a question. In his demonstrations of the SHURN, he does talk about the importance of keeping the back to the target through the whole lateral motion, as well as the asynchronous nature of the lateral shift, starting with the lower body. However, in his demonstrations, it seems that once the lateral shift is over and it's time to turn, it looks like the turn he advocates is very synchronous in keeping the shoulders and pelvis moving as one unit. Even his Haerim-dance video appears to be pretty synchronous in the actual turn portion. It's clear from GEARS and even just watching slomo videos that most tour pros generate a good amount of separation between the shoulders and the pelvis. Maybe I'm overthinking this, or the separation only happens at full speed. Just curious how this separation plays into the drills and intents. 

 

2 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

I have had the same thoughts regarding that drill.  I think that the shift turn with the kettlebell etc. is intended to train the lateral movement of the hips and late shoulder turn.  LOL this is something that I have definitely come up against while doing the drills and sometimes I have felt like I was keeping my hips closed a bit too long while doing step drills or even hitting the ball.  I usually end up going over my lead foot too far with my hip when I do that.  So for me the answer seems to be to not worry about and just let the swing happen while getting the kick the ground sort of feeling with the trial foot and the lead foot.  A good image for me is the head staying somewhat quiet while the hips move within the triangle.  

 

Anyway I think that some of the drills are meant to exaggerate certain movements to overcome the more basic problems that most golfers have.  LOL that's the best that I have on the subject as I am in the early stages of trying to learn this swing.  

 

I agree that it's probably an exaggerated intent to try to find the right balance between shifting and turning.

 

We need to perceive the movement as shift/turn, shift/turn so we don't try to turn before we've shifted. This intent helps us find the feel but also puts our subconscious mind to work to achieve the goal. 

 

The term "SHURN" itself is a pretty good reminder that these are not separate motions but overlapping ones. 

[BottleCap]

1 hour ago, Redjeep83 said:

 

There is a secret if I can call it that to fixing inside takeaway. Makes it feel more natural

 

Will you share? When I go to the range I see like 80 percent of the patrons with the issue.

[Fhbrook23]

2 hours ago, me05501 said:

 

 

I agree that it's probably an exaggerated intent to try to find the right balance between shifting and turning.

This is how I understand it too.  More of a feel for the transition sequence than for the the whole downswing.

[glk]

 

[Nels55]

On 2/16/2022 at 7:54 AM, me05501 said:

 

 

I agree that it's probably an exaggerated intent to try to find the right balance between shifting and turning.

 

We need to perceive the movement as shift/turn, shift/turn so we don't try to turn before we've shifted. This intent helps us find the feel but also puts our subconscious mind to work to achieve the goal. 

 

The term "SHURN" itself is a pretty good reminder that these are not separate motions but overlapping ones. 

For me the re-centering move that starts while the shoulders are still turning a little bit or at least are not opening is the key and rather difficult to achieve.  LOL I kind of tend to not do it or if I think of it I will usually over do it.  I am hoping that by plugging away at the drills will get that move integrated into my swing eventually.  Every pro swing I have looked at since I became aware of the movement demonstrates it which makes me believe that it is a key to hitting the ball well. 

[me05501]

21 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

For me the re-centering move that starts while the shoulders are still turning a little bit or at least are not opening is the key and rather difficult to achieve.  LOL I kind of tend to not do it or if I think of it I will usually over do it.  I am hoping that by plugging away at the drills will get that move integrated into my swing eventually.  Every pro swing I have looked at since I became aware of the movement demonstrates it which makes me believe that it is a key to hitting the ball well. 

I think stance width is a good way to control the amount of shift. I’m always worried about overdoing it, but if my stance is stable it just works out.