Dr Kwon

[MK7Golf21]

1 hour ago, johnrobison said:

Goalposts are moving around a bit here... Your original comment was equating drifting and sliding - that many players trying to drift and get open are already sliding too much. They're not the same thing which is what I was pointing out. The drift has to happen with correct pelvis action, otherwise rotation is inhibited. And, yes, the backswing rotation can be good followed by incorrect pelvic motion in the downswing. I never said that a good backswing will guarantee a good downswing.

 

Can you provide an example of a good impact position from a player who has COM staying back with hips open?

 

there aren't any goal posts moving even if you like to say that in your response.

 

You are saying they won't slide if they do the drift correctly and have correct backswing pivots and to that I say well obviously, haha. Easier said than done. That was my whole point, people already have an issue with sliding and trying to drift with the move they are more than likely going to overdo it and slide. Many have already pointed out that they over do the "drift" and it will become a slide. Whatever you want to call it, it's semantics.

 

One of the ways the slide happens is that people drop the right shoulder to try shallowing and the hips slide, nearly every weekend golfer does this. Why do you think there is all this talk of keeping lead shoulder down in transition etc. etc. Keeping the hips back and upper body forward is another fix for the same issue, you are reversing your fault. 

 

You are asking for a good impact position of a player who has COM staying back and hips open. I think I've mentioned it like 5 times now that it is a feel, feel and real aren't the same thing. If I posted a swing showing someone with the sliding issue feeling hips not moving forward at all and upper body staying stacked or even more forward it would look like a normal swing. Again, feel and real aren't the same.

 

[Nard_S]

1 hour ago, Redjeep83 said:

You are saying they won't slide if they do the drift correctly and have correct backswing pivots and to that I say well obviously, haha. Easier said than done.

Kwon spoke of a "reverse C" feel at the top of back swing. If I go for that intent the whole method works quite well. Drift with no EE.

[MK7Golf21]

1 minute ago, Nard_S said:

Kwon spoke of a "reverse C" feel at the top of back swing. If I go for that intent the whole method works quite well. Drift with no EE.

 

Maybe that is a good fix for people who drop the right shoulder for shallowing and slide? Let Monte know, lol

[Nard_S]

5 minutes ago, Redjeep83 said:

 

Maybe that is a good fix for people who drop the right shoulder for shallowing and slide? Let Monte know, lol

I think it's a basic way of saying, get more left bend or hold your angles better. I'm a bit of a whiny dork on that aspect in general but I found I could not do the Kwon "active pelvis" thing till I went for a reverse C feel. Then it became magical for that session, like real good and after that went at it again but forgot the reverse C part, the whole thing was a bust. So I'm inclined on next session to do reverse C and active pelvis in unison. 

[MK7Golf21]

8 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

I think it's a basic way of saying, get more left bend or hold your angles better. I'm a bit of a whiny dork on that aspect in general but I found I could not do the Kwon "active pelvis" thing till I went for a reverse C feel. Then it became magical for that session, like real good and after that went at it again but forgot the reverse C part, the whole thing was a bust. So I'm inclined on next session to do reverse C and active pelvis in unison. 

 

yea, I have found the same thing. People don't mention it much as a fix though.

[johnrobison]

3 hours ago, Redjeep83 said:

 

there aren't any goal posts moving even if you like to say that in your response.

 

You are saying they won't slide if they do the drift correctly and have correct backswing pivots and to that I say well obviously, haha. Easier said than done. That was my whole point, people already have an issue with sliding and trying to drift with the move they are more than likely going to overdo it and slide. Many have already pointed out that they over do the "drift" and it will become a slide. Whatever you want to call it, it's semantics.

 

One of the ways the slide happens is that people drop the right shoulder to try shallowing and the hips slide, nearly every weekend golfer does this. Why do you think there is all this talk of keeping lead shoulder down in transition etc. etc. Keeping the hips back and upper body forward is another fix for the same issue, you are reversing your fault. 

 

You are asking for a good impact position of a player who has COM staying back and hips open. I think I've mentioned it like 5 times now that it is a feel, feel and real aren't the same thing. If I posted a swing showing someone with the sliding issue feeling hips not moving forward at all and upper body staying stacked or even more forward it would look like a normal swing. Again, feel and real aren't the same.

 

It's not just semantics. You can't just tell someone who is sliding to stop sliding so they can rotate. You're making my point with the connection of the trail shoulder drop and hip slide. That move is a common fault and saying that you can drift from there, you should keep the hips back instead, doesn't fix it.

 

Anyway... I don't want to hijack the thread any further as we've already ventured too far from the topic of pressure and rotation sequencing.

[Nels55]

The vast majority of golfers who attempt the drills are not going to execute them as well as the would if Dr. Kwon was there teaching them in person. 

 

That said I believe that by doing the drills sort of right and looking at video of myself doing the drills and trying to figure out what Dr. Kwon would be telling me I have actually improved my movement pattern.  I am definitely hitting the ball farther then I was with my recent different swing method attempts.  In addition I am seeing more really good shots on the course so it is a matter of continuing to improve shot making consistency.  Will that happen?  LOL I don't know but I have more hope then I have had in a long time... 

[golfarb1]

Is Kyle Berkshire a model for Dr Kwon’s  teachings ? 

[MK7Golf21]

1 hour ago, johnrobison said:

It's not just semantics. You can't just tell someone who is sliding to stop sliding so they can rotate. You're making my point with the connection of the trail shoulder drop and hip slide. That move is a common fault and saying that you can drift from there, you should keep the hips back instead, doesn't fix it.

 

Anyway... I don't want to hijack the thread any further as we've already ventured too far from the topic of pressure and rotation sequencing.

 

sorry but you're not really understanding, I never said to just tell them to just stop sliding so they can rotate. I said a feeling of keeping hips back, not moving forward at all and upper body more stacked or even forward. This can fix the sliding and dropping of right shoulder. I was a slider years ago and I had more than 1 highly regarded instructor give me these fixes/drills that worked but you seem to think you are the expert so there you go. Never seen your swing, post it up

Edited March 2, 2022 by Redjeep83

[johnrobison]

25 minutes ago, Redjeep83 said:

 

sorry but you're not really understanding, I never said to just tell them to just stop sliding so they can rotate. I said a feeling of keeping hips back, not moving forward at all and upper body more stacked or even forward. This can fix the sliding and dropping of right shoulder. I was a slider years ago and I had more than 1 highly regarded instructor give me these fixes/drills that worked but you seem to think you are the expert so there you go. Never seen your swing, post it up

LOL! I've shown my swing plenty here and elsewhere. But that's really not the point and I never once claimed to be an expert. More often, I tell people I'm no expert so take what I'm saying for whatever that's worth. If you liked my swing would you suddenly agree with me? Funny.

 

Anyway... That's not what you said. You said "The people who slide too much ... have to feel the 1 inch shift off the ball and then the hips staying back on the downswing if they have any hope of not sliding and getting open". That's why I said the goalposts keep moving.

 

Whatever your instructor gave you for your particular issue is great if it resulted in sustainable improvement. I have zero issue with that. Nor would I claim to know more that your instructor. Again, I'm only responding to your original assertion that I just quoted. 

 

But, again, let's not hijack this thread. If we don't understand each other or disagree with what feel might fix what issue, that's totally fine by me. Honestly. I can let go of this very easily.

[Duffer Mark]

I never really felt much with the kettle bell but I was only using the suggested 10 lb bell. So I grabbed my 40 lb. bell that I normally workout with using a grip similar to a golf grip. I started swinging it back and forth and really felt the lower body engage for the first time. That's not to say that I wasn't using the lower body with the 10 lber, but the 40 lber really helped me feel the shifting and moving, etc. The problem with the 40 lber is it will wear me out. LOL I'm going to work with is some more and see how it goes.

[MK7Golf21]

25 minutes ago, johnrobison said:

LOL! I've shown my swing plenty here and elsewhere. But that's really not the point and I never once claimed to be an expert. More often, I tell people I'm no expert so take what I'm saying for whatever that's worth. If you liked my swing would you suddenly agree with me? Funny.

 

Anyway... That's not what you said. You said "The people who slide too much ... have to feel the 1 inch shift off the ball and then the hips staying back on the downswing if they have any hope of not sliding and getting open". That's why I said the goalposts keep moving.

 

Whatever your instructor gave you for your particular issue is great if it resulted in sustainable improvement. I have zero issue with that. Nor would I claim to know more that your instructor. Again, I'm only responding to your original assertion that I just quoted. 

 

But, again, let's not hijack this thread. If we don't understand each other or disagree with what feel might fix what issue, that's totally fine by me. Honestly. I can let go of this very easily.

 

Goal posts never moved once. I said twice the feeling of the body more stacked on top as well, for me I don't even need that. I just feel my hips staying more back and my right shoulder doesn't drop. The sliding and right shoulder drop go together, you take one away and the other might resolve itself.

[zacgolf]

 

 

[glk]

THis lesson really applies to recentering and monte caste.   Start slow but once into the lesson they pull up a visual of his force arrows from his feet and ultimately get him the recenter well and then deal with arm direction.

 

 

[MK7Golf21]

14 hours ago, glk said:

THis lesson really applies to recentering and monte caste.   Start slow but once into the lesson they pull up a visual of his force arrows from his feet and ultimately get him the recenter well and then deal with arm direction.

 

 

 

pretty good, this cleans up what I was talking about. I do like the drill they used of putting something outside lead foot to prevent overdoing the slide. I have used that drill a bunch over the years.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Redjeep83

[glk]

1 hour ago, Redjeep83 said:

 

pretty good, this cleans up what I was talking about. I do like the drill they used of putting something outside lead foot to prevent overdoing the slide. I have used that drill a bunch over the years.

last fall I was looking to go down to Carterville (about a 2.5 hour drive)  and do a session - it was going to be 500/hr and likely two hours.   But they didn't have open times that worked and other priorities intervened - now I see their website is listing $5000 for half a day (1 or two golfers) and $10000 a full day.     Haven't bothered to contact their support line to see how this applies to hour or two but if half a day is 4 hours than figure it has to be $1250/hour.    If their lesson tee is booked they must have huge demand.

[Hilts1969]

1 hour ago, glk said:

last fall I was looking to go down to Carterville (about a 2.5 hour drive)  and do a session - it was going to be 500/hr and likely two hours.   But they didn't have open times that worked and other priorities intervened - now I see their website is listing $5000 for half a day (1 or two golfers) and $10000 a full day.     Haven't bothered to contact their support line to see how this applies to hour or two but if half a day is 4 hours than figure it has to be $1250/hour.    If their lesson tee is booked they must have huge demand.

10 grand haha worlds gone mad.

[MK7Golf21]

1 hour ago, glk said:

last fall I was looking to go down to Carterville (about a 2.5 hour drive)  and do a session - it was going to be 500/hr and likely two hours.   But they didn't have open times that worked and other priorities intervened - now I see their website is listing $5000 for half a day (1 or two golfers) and $10000 a full day.     Haven't bothered to contact their support line to see how this applies to hour or two but if half a day is 4 hours than figure it has to be $1250/hour.    If their lesson tee is booked they must have huge demand.

 

crazy, their youtube channel is pretty popular and they put out good videos, I'm sure they are booked all day everyday. I remember someone telling me it was 500 for an hour or two last year. Crazy what it is now, 10 grand a day is what those super instructors like Haney etc. charge.  You start seeing their clientele as older guys who love golf and have money to throw away.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Redjeep83

[mudge]

1 hour ago, Redjeep83 said:

 

crazy, their youtube channel is pretty popular and they put out good videos, I'm sure they are booked all day everyday. I remember someone telling me it was 500 for an hour or two last year. Crazy what it is now, 10 grand a day is what those super instructors like Haney etc. charge.  You start seeing their clientele as older guys who love golf and have money to throw away.

Yeah that’s basically relative obscurity  to Butch Harmon territory in just a few years. What a time to be alive.

Edited March 3, 2022 by mudge

[airjammer]

6 hours ago, Redjeep83 said:

 

crazy, their youtube channel is pretty popular and they put out good videos, I'm sure they are booked all day everyday. I remember someone telling me it was 500 for an hour or two last year. Crazy what it is now, 10 grand a day is what those super instructors like Haney etc. charge.  You start seeing their clientele as older guys who love golf and have money to throw away.

I might have been the one. I wanted to try the gasp plates when I first heard they had them. They quoted me $500 a hour and minimum 2 hours I think that included gears as well. I was nice about it but I was thinking when pigs fly. 
 

Anyone around the southeast area can go to mark blackburns academy and get on it for $175 a hour. A lesson with Mark himself is or was $450 a hour. 

[zacgolf]

Another very good video, maybe of interest…

 

 

[Hawkeye77]

Edit:  never mind.  DeVore isn't worth the comments.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Hawkeye77

[Zitlow]

14 minutes ago, DinoPro said:

The bebettergolf guy looks to be doing pretty good for himself, $2200.00 for a two day swing school with the good Doctor pro himself.  First school sold out and only one spot left on the other.   I gotta get me one of these instruction gigs, easy money!

 

Dr, Kwon is the new GG. 

 

 

[mudge]

7 hours ago, DinoPro said:

The bebettergolf guy looks to be doing pretty good for himself, $2200.00 for a two day swing school with the good Doctor pro himself.  First school sold out and only one spot left on the other.   I gotta get me one of these instruction gigs, easy money!

He’s been doing BBG schools for years, he just happened to catch lightning in a bottle with Kwon. The channel blew past 100K subs after he put Kwon on.

[jgonz69]

8 hours ago, DinoPro said:

The bebettergolf guy looks to be doing pretty good for himself, $2200.00 for a two day swing school with the good Doctor pro himself.  First school sold out and only one spot left on the other.   I gotta get me one of these instruction gigs, easy money!

Explain how easy it is doing all that content. Do you think the people he has on his videos are doing it for free?

He ain’t getting rich

https://socialblade.com/youtube/user/bdevore76

Not even gonna figure out profits after expenses for the golf schools

[BottleCap]

I find Brendon's channel way more interesting than all the Me and My Golf or Rick Sheils type content...those are so 5 years ago 

[munchies2x]

7 hours ago, BottleCap said:

I find Brendon's channel way more interesting than all the Me and My Golf or Rick Sheils type content...those are so 5 years ago 

 

Agree with this! Without him, I would have never known Monte, Malaska, Dana, Milo and Dr. Kwon, plus so many others. I would say 90% of his contents are worth watching, even more than once. Which I don't do with other Youtubers.

 

The BBG golf school is quite pricey imho, but if people have the money, then why not, it is a free country after all.

 

 

[airjammer]

5 hours ago, munchies2x said:

 

Agree with this! Without him, I would have never known Monte, Malaska, Dana, Milo and Dr. Kwon, plus so many others. I would say 90% of his contents are worth watching, even more than once. Which I don't do with other Youtubers.

 

The BBG golf school is quite pricey imho, but if people have the money, then why not, it is a free country after all.

 

 

But are you better because you now know all of those other instructors?  
 

Doesn’t seem like he’s improved much over the years and I’m sure a good deal of that is because of his instructor jumping. The jumping is the reason for the popularity of his channel but in the grand scheme if things his swings looks virtually identical now vs when he started the channel.  I certainly hope there have been people who found instructors that they have stuck with because of his channel but I imagine for 99% of his viewers it turns out to be a path to a “rabbit hole”. 

[PoeKingShankspeare]

^^^^^^^BBG did expose all these instructors to the masses….. it gave me a chance to collect and select which YouTuber to follow. I like this method, it’s something I did in 86 when I was 13 studying traditional martial arts. I loved Bruce lee since I was 5 years old and I didn’t know he was exploring what we call MMA today to make his own JKD. 
 

as a student of traditional Okinawa karate, I had so many questions about techniques and such. And just like In golf, I questioned all these instructors and their methods. Some YT golf instructional techniques/methods are catered to a certain body type and/or ability IMO. BBG videos helped me decide who to ignore and who to follow. And right now, DR. Kwon is whom I follow for the moment. Likewise, I did pick and choose techniques which works for me from different instructors over the last 5 years since my return to golf. And as a recreational player I’m happy where I’m at. I‘ll break 80 this season the way things are going now. It’s more mental than physical.
 

Lastly, I’ve been golfing on and off since 93’… but in the last 4-5 years, I’ve learn a lot through YouTube (and the guys around me)… with that said, YT can be dangerous to some ppl trying to learn or improve their game. You know, I’d like to see George G. Have a late 40 year old over weight golfer in his videos. 

[Zitlow]

1 hour ago, airjammer said:

But are you better because you now know all of those other instructors?  
 

Doesn’t seem like he’s improved much over the years and I’m sure a good deal of that is because of his instructor jumping. The jumping is the reason for the popularity of his channel but in the grand scheme if things his swings looks virtually identical now vs when he started the channel.  I certainly hope there have been people who found instructors that they have stuck with because of his channel but I imagine for 99% of his viewers it turns out to be a path to a “rabbit hole”. 

 

His frenetic swing matches his frenetic personality.