Do Blades negatively impact performance? Or is it all in our heads?

[PTM]

1 minute ago, MelloYello said:

the best players I've seen

 

2 minutes ago, MelloYello said:

The reality of golf is that improving does actually require hitting the ball straighter. 

 

I know when I watch ESPN+ in a couple hours, all the best players I can watch will be throwing straight darts on the Shottracer.

[MattC555]

7 minutes ago, MelloYello said:

Here was my original post from page 1 which summarizes my personal experience / views

Yeah, I'd already read that.  The excessive negative feedback is an interesting/peculiar prospective.  To each there own.  Personally I like getting as much feedback as I can.  It's one thing I preferred with my old MP68s vs my newer MP20s.  I got much more feedback with the MP68s.  Might have been the S300 shafts though. 

[MelloYello]

2 minutes ago, chrismarz said:

 

We'll go on the context that this isn't condescending....  with that, then I agree.  I don't want to yuck anyone's yums on playing and having fun.  What I want is for folks to understand the notion of "blades are only for pros" is complete BS.  This rhetoric needs to stop in the greater community and its out there as ONLY a way to push more sales not improve scores or fun.

 

There's no restriction on what people can purchase. I purchased MBs as my first clubs actually. I've said (in this thread!) that I actually think everyone should try them at some point. I think they punish steep angles of attack. I think they expose bad contact. I think they feel awful when struck poorly. 

 

All of those things are kind of good for the 15-20 index who's starting the game and needs to be taught how important good technique really is. They are good if only for how they expose a player.  

 

But that doesn't mean I think they're clubs that good players should stick with or that they (MBs) have any value in optimizing a regular player's game, even when it comes to course strategy like you've described. 

 

I hope I haven't offended you here Chis. I'm a nice guy and so are you. Maybe this thread has a couple trolls but I hope you can appreciate the points I've made throughout this thread. I get what you are saying. I just think it's not the final opinion you'll have on this. I think I've been where you are. Excuse me if I speak as though I know more than you. 

 

To your point about improving the community, maybe we can add---let's stop assuming that everyone who prefers CBs does so for stupid reasons and hasn't thought it through. Let's stop assuming that everyone who uses CBs does so because they think CBs are more forgiving. 

 

I've explained multiple times how I think feel is a more significant difference and how the punishing feel of MBs is bad for golfers in the long run. 

[MelloYello]

3 minutes ago, MattC555 said:

Yeah, I'd already read that.  The excessive negative feedback is an interesting/peculiar prospective.  To each there own.  Personally I like getting as much feedback as I can.  It's one thing I preferred with my old MP68s vs my newer MP20s.  I got much more feedback with the MP68s.  Might have been the S300 shafts though. 

 

I whole-heartedly agree with the DG. I played DGs for a long time and personally I would agree that they are both a somewhat demanding and exceedingly transparent shaft. 

 

I'm happy to have ditched them TBH. I don't think they ever really fit me. That said, several of the MB sets I played had something other than DGs. 

[MattC555]

6 minutes ago, MelloYello said:

 

I can't imagine it's healthy to switch from such extremes. Even ignoring "forgiveness" (which I'm actually happy to do) the idea of not knowing what kind of offset, sole design, look, feel, etc you prefer seems strange. 

 

It's like wondering should I be a painter or a financial analyst? I mean, LOL, that sounds like a weird question to ask. 

 

It is far less extreme than you suggest.  I played the crap out of those G15s.  Loved them.  Swapped to a blade and my scores dropped.  Why?  Probably because I practiced more.  The blades definitely give more reliable results.  The G15s are definitely more forgiving.  G15 flew much higher, MP68 spun much more.  Both traveled the same distance.  Great memories with both sticks. 

[bladehunter]

2 minutes ago, MelloYello said:

 

I think what this conversation has shown is how scared of left & right misses a lot of golfers actually are--so much so that they'll actually prefer to lose noticeable distance. 

 

When I compare that attitude to the best players I've seen, there is not this pronounced tendency to miss big left & right. 

 

I know this is taken as an offensive statement, but I'm hoping you'll see my point for what it is. The reality of golf is that improving does actually require hitting the ball straighter. 

 

We all begin golf fascinated with curving the ball but believe it or not, (excess) curvature tends to be the thing that ends up hurting us. The challenge is to learn to reduce that miss. 

No. I’m not saying “ work the ball “.   I can hit anything straight.  And do.  I’m saying that the swings are different.  Good players change their swing to try to hit the club within 4-5 swings. Any club.  That’s why a good player won’t continue to hit a club that doesn’t suit them.  They know that it’s actually changing their delivery.  Aoa , path , everything.   
 

that same fact is why those different misses exist.   We tend to swing bigger and harder at a forgiving club.  This is where the toe hook or the open faced push comes from with the bigger irons.  Hammer vs cast iron frying  pan.  You’d swing the pan harder to drive the nail . Why ? The miss is allowed.  
 

 Here’s the thing .  I’ve tested loads of irons.   And to this day I have a set of titleist MBs that hold the ballspeed record loft for loft.  They’re in Average 3 mph faster than anything I’ve ever had in hand. Of course this requires middle contact. But I’m testing middle for middle.  I don’t really care about off center.  Off center usually has a path issue as a cause.  I don’t want a shot with a poor path going farther offline.  

[MelloYello]

Just now, MattC555 said:

 

It is far less extreme than you suggest.  I played the crap out of those G15s.  Loved them.  Swapped to a blade and my scores dropped.  Why?  Probably because I practiced more.  The blades definitely give more reliable results.  The G15s are definitely more forgiving.  G15 flew much higher, MP68 spun much more.  Both traveled the same distance.  Great memories with both sticks. 

 

Well Chris, you're kind of agreeing a bit with the point I made earlier that blades do tend to put guys on the range, LOL. 

 

At some point that holds a player back though when it's realized that iron play has to take a back seat to driving, chipping and putting. 

 

I will return to focusing somewhat more on my irons this year but that's only after putting tons of work into my driver, wedges and putter this year. And no, I can't stop practicing those, LOL, I just have to find more time to straighten out my mid-irons which have a tendency (maybe like yours) to go offline more often than I can stand. 

 

Still, my answer to perpetually pushing my 5-iron on the Par-3 15th hole where I play isn't going to manifest in a club change, LOL. I'm going to figure out how to reduce my tendency to hit pushes off that tee box. 

[MattC555]

2 minutes ago, MelloYello said:

 

I whole-heartedly agree with the DG. I played DGs for a long time and personally I would agree that they are both a somewhat demanding and exceedingly transparent shaft. 

 

I'm happy to have ditched them TBH. I don't think they ever really fit me. That said, several of the MB sets I played had something other than DGs. 

Give MP20 blades a swing.  I don't recall these ever stinging my hands. 

[bladehunter]

1 minute ago, MelloYello said:

 

Well Chris, you're kind of agreeing a bit with the point I made earlier that blades do tend to put guys on the range, LOL. 

 

At some point that holds a player back though when it's realized that iron play has to take a back seat to driving, chipping and putting. 

 

I will return to focusing somewhat more on my irons this year but that's only after putting tons of work into my driver, wedges and putter this year. And no, I can't stop practicing those, LOL, I just have to find more time to straighten out my mid-irons which have a tendency (maybe like yours) to go offline more often than I can stand. 

 

Still, my answer to perpetually pushing my 5-iron on the Par-3 15th hole where I play isn't going to manifest in a club change, LOL. I'm going to figure out how to reduce my tendency to hit pushes off that tee box. 

There is some truth there. But it’s because the modern game has gone in the wrong direction.  If you shrunk driver to 300 cc or less , and limited shaft to 44 inches , you’d then need short irons again.  
 

so yes. In todays state of the game. We’re getting to a point where we will see big hitters carry 6 specialty wedges from 43 degrees down.  Then a 7 iron , and maybe a 5 iron.   Then fill with tee clubs that gap 15 yards apart .   It’s really a joke in a way.  

[MelloYello]

1 minute ago, MattC555 said:

Give MP20 blades a swing.  I don't recall these ever stinging my hands. 

 

Eh, thanks, but I'm happy with what I have. If I never make another gear purchase it'll be a mental win for me. Finding a set that worked, which I don't have to think about is part of the game. 

 

I don't play for feel. I play for score. It's depressing. It has it's downsides. As I related on page 2/3 I honestly don't know that I like golf now as much as when I began. Yet, the fact is, I'm better today than ever before. 

 

So admitted, I come at this from the perspective of thinking that folks who enjoy flush contact are missing the larger point. To me, if you lose by a shot and your money is in someone else's pocket after the round, well....you lost. LOL

[MelloYello]

Just now, bladehunter said:

There is some truth there. But it’s because the modern game has gone in the wrong direction.  If you shrunk driver to 300 cc or less , and limited shaft to 44 inches , you’d then need short irons again.  
 

so yes. In todays state of the game. We’re getting to a point where we will see big hitters carry 6 specialty wedges from 43 degrees down.  Then a 7 iron , and maybe a 5 iron.   Then fill with tee clubs that gap 15 yards apart .   It’s really a joke in a way.  

 

Someone cue Grandpa Simpson....Old Man Yells At Cloud!

 

LOL just kidding of course. 

 

I used to think that way until I realized how hard it is to actually be a long & straight player. The truth is, the modern game is a function of players being able to practice all day and analyze their already-perfect swings. 

 

What we're seeing is hyper-competition. The quality of golf being played is better than ever before. You might hate it but it's a function of the game's popularity (especially among young people who have massive physical advantages). 

[bladehunter]

2 minutes ago, MelloYello said:

 

Someone cue Grandpa Simpson....Old Man Yells At Cloud!

 

LOL just kidding of course. 

 

I used to think that way until I realized how hard it is to actually be a long & straight player. The truth is, the modern game is a function of players being able to practice all day and analyze their already-perfect swings. 

 

What we're seeing is hyper-competition. The quality of golf being played is better than ever before. You might hate it but it's a function of the game's popularity (especially among young people who have massive physical advantages). 

For what it’s worth I agree with you more on facts than it sounds.  But in reality or “rathers” I don’t.   Your line above about scoring better now but not loving it as much is true for me too.  At  the very least it causes pause for me.  
 

I detest the modern game.  Yet I play it.  Really don’t feel like there’s a choice if you’re trying to compete.   In the am game especially a lot of low single digit guys are propped up by todays equipment.  We’re in the midst of the biggest handicap drop in golf history for club players.  

[MelloYello]

5 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

For what it’s worth I agree with you more on facts than it sounds.  But in reality or “rathers” I don’t.   Your line above about scoring better now but not loving it as much is true for me too.  At  the very least it causes pause for me.  
 

I detest the modern game.  Yet I play it.  Really don’t feel like there’s a choice if you’re trying to compete.   In the am game especially a lot of low single digit guys are propped up by todays equipment.  We’re in the midst of the biggest handicap drop in golf history for club players.  

 

Maybe that last point is true. IDK. It's news to me. Then again, as I told someone yesterday Handicap/Index is not about talent...it's about time. Are you going to invest the necessary time? 

 

If you play everyday, you'll find a way to scratch. It's not about course management or getting fit or anything you hear about along the way. Those are all aspects of being your best but you just have to play golf until you're sick of it. You'll find the right clubs and strategy as a matter of course. 

 

I wouldn't mind seeing the ball reigned in a bit. I personally think guys who hammer the ball 320 are going to have to find a completely new relationship to the game as they age. I'm kind of glad my introduction to the game came via working the ball and all that. While it might've hurt me then, it makes growing older a lot easier. The game won't change for me and lose its luster the same way it will for some guys I know. 

 

When they lose SS, they may not even want to play anymore? 

Edited January 21, 2022 by MelloYello

[golfjam]

I tried them all but I always go back to blades. As long as you don't hit them fat they're pretty manageable and the good shots are so much better that I don't think the trade off is worth it.  

[JRuss]

If you want to shoot the best score possible, I dont think you should play blades unless you have solid fundamentals.  I always tell my buddies play whatever you hit the green with, no matter if 155 yards is an 8 iron in one set and a 6 iron in another.  Golf if pretty simple when you break it down.  Fairways and greens.   Doing it is another thing.

[bladehunter]

14 minutes ago, MelloYello said:

 

Maybe that last point is true. IDK. It's news to me. Then again, as I told someone yesterday Handicap/Index is not about talent...it's about time. Are you going to invest the necessary time? 

 

If you play everyday, you'll find a way to scratch. It's not about course management or getting fit or anything you hear about along the way. Those are all aspects of being your best but you just have to play golf until you're sick of it. You'll find the right clubs and strategy as a matter of course. 

 

I wouldn't mind seeing the ball reigned in a bit. I personally think guys who hammer the ball 320 are going to have to find a completely new relationship to the game as they age. I'm kind of glad my introduction to the game came via working the ball and all that. While it might've hurt me then, it makes growing older a lot easier. The game won't change for me and lose its luster the same way it will for some guys I know. 

 

When they lose SS, they may not even want to play anymore? 

Here’s a pretty good article.  Down 2 shots since 1997 or so.  That’s pretty huge in my book.  And coincides with the big driver , better ball coming in.  
 

aome will say “ what’s the big deal “. Well to me It’s this.  Things log jam around a 1-2 handicap and down.  It’s pretty much a given that a guy who has some length and can putt can get to 1 or 0.   If he wants to and puts in the time.  But getting to +2 to + 4 is exponentially harder than going from a 4 to a 0.   The margin for error is nothing.  I know this first hand. I hovered from 0.8 to + 1 all year.  0.0 at the moment on the dot.  I’ve done this with blades up to a 2 iron and this year with the graphite set because of my elbow.  So scoring really is dependent on driver and putter.  As we said.  Ok so far so good ?  
 

well. According to that handicap data.  There are now alot of 4s who are 2s and 2s who are scratch , that have a 3-5 hybrid and a big driver etc etc.     this is where it comes in.  The fields at any qualifier , or gross event at much deeper. More crowded etc.   in our own club championship we had a 74 year old man compete and finish top 5 in the champ flight this year.  From the back.     I watched h is game.  It wasn’t flawless. Or necessarily pretty.  He just managed the misses and could putt.  And he launched driver to the moon and it rolled.    I kept catching myself thinking “ how many flights back you’d be if we were playing persimmon and blades “?      
 

it is what it is at this point. But.  We mid ams have to fight guys from age 25-75 now.  Lol.  I do not believe that was the case 30 years ago.  I truly wish I had played earlier and never seen the game as it is today.  
 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/a-closer-look-at-handicap-data-shows-just-how-much-golfers-have-improved-in-recent-years/amp

Edited January 21, 2022 by bladehunter

[Scote]

I just finished my first full season with blades and my handicap has never been lower (+0.2). I was coming from 718 AP2's and switched to the 620 MB's. There was however a little learning curve; albeit only in the long irons. My 5 and 6 iron yardages in the MB's were starting to bunch up so I swapped those for 620 CB's. Little extra help and I got my stock gapping back. I can confidently say any single digit handicap with some speed (I don't have a ton) can game blades. To me, a miss is a miss whether that's with a cavity back or blade. If you miss strike either, the ball will not have the same characteristics and flight as if you struck it in the middle. Period. 

I'd say it also depends on your tendencies. I consider myself a good ball striker and my miss is typically a little on the toe. Cavity Back irons just don't give me confidence that I'll consistently hit my number. I'm very afraid of going long or hitting that low spin bomber with a bigger cavity back iron. Irons should be used as a tool to hit the ball within a 5 yard distance every time when you strike it well. I don't need or want distance out of my irons; I want them to fly, spin, stop, and perform the same every time I strike them in the middle. Blades do that for me and gave me more confidence. To me, it's about reducing variables; if I put a good swing on it with a blade the ball will do exactly as my delivery prescribed. Even with some of the mid level/players cavity backs, I worry I'll catch the odd low spinner even if a quality strike is delivered. Just my $0.02.

 

Don't let the stigma of blades deter you from trying them. You'll likely be surprised at your results/scores and find you'll be more in tune with you tendencies, strike patterns, and what to work on.

[golfortennis]

I find the loss of distance on mishits to not be nearly the problem it is made out to be.  For the most part, the ball will come up short, and most golf holes, short is a better place to miss than left/right/long.  

 

Not to mention, and it may just be a n=1 scenario, but I found that the distance can be controlled better with blades.  CB's would sometimes be hot, and go 20 yards long.  

 

Blades all the way IMHO.  And I also think far more players can play them than there are people who think they can play them.

[srolph17]

I just finished my first full season with blades and my handicap has never been lower (+0.2). I was coming from 718 AP2's and switched to the 620 MB's. There was however a little learning curve; albeit only in the long irons. My 5 and 6 iron yardages in the MB's were starting to bunch up so I swapped those for 620 CB's. Little extra help and I got my stock gapping back. I can confidently say any single digit handicap with some speed (I don't have a ton) can game blades. To me, a miss is a miss whether that's with a cavity back or blade. If you miss strike either, the ball will not have the same characteristics and flight as if you struck it in the middle. Period. 

I'd say it also depends on your tendencies. I consider myself a good ball striker and my miss is typically a little on the toe. Cavity Back irons just don't give me confidence that I'll consistently hit my number. I'm very afraid of going long or hitting that low spin bomber with a bigger cavity back iron. Irons should be used as a tool to hit the ball within a 5 yard distance every time when you strike it well. I don't need or want distance out of my irons; I want them to fly, spin, stop, and perform the same every time I strike them in the middle. Blades do that for me and gave me more confidence. To me, it's about reducing variables; if I put a good swing on it with a blade the ball will do exactly as my delivery prescribed. Even with some of the mid level/players cavity backs, I worry I'll catch the odd low spinner even if a quality strike is delivered. Just my $0.02.

 

Don't let the stigma of blades deter you from trying them. You'll likely be surprised at your results/scores and find you'll be more in tune with your tendencies, strike patterns, and what to work on.

Edited January 21, 2022 by srolph17

[SouthBayGolfer]

17 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

I find the loss of distance on mishits to not be nearly the problem it is made out to be.  For the most part, the ball will come up short, and most golf holes, short is a better place to miss than left/right/long.  

 

Not to mention, and it may just be a n=1 scenario, but I found that the distance can be controlled better with blades.  CB's would sometimes be hot, and go 20 yards long.  

 

Blades all the way IMHO.  And I also think far more players can play them than there are people who think they can play them.

I think this is a great point. I will reserve my full response for this thread for when I play in a week or two but I am currently a 13 handicap and just putting together a set of miura baby blades. I have only hit the 7 iron on the range but the dispersion is much tighter than my '21 p790's. With a more forgiving club like the p790's my mishits went right or left but went a long way. On nearly all the courses I play on that usually means trouble. I would much rather my miss be short than the same distance but left or right or long because most holes don't have trouble short. 

 

Like I said, I'll chime in once I get a full round or two under my belt for these clubs that most people say I shouldn't be playing. I am not a particularly strong iron player so we will see. 

[dodgyman]

 

I'll add more gas to the fire, one of the things that irk me in this debate is the perpetuation of blades being "less forgiving and only for elite players" I found this video on 221s I was watching last night, it was just one video but we all know there are a lot more and what they guy says and what he shows doesn't add up. (221 is orange, 223 is blue, 225 is green) Front to back consistency is generally very good for most decent ball strikers. Let's say he mis-hit some and removed them, fine, but for every mis-hit that's say a 50% bogey, the consistency should give him a lot more birdie chances.

 

There's a common theme in this thread which I really agree with, there is a tipping point for every golfer where their ability/speed start to see a real drop-off. For a 30+ handicap it might be at 60 degree wedge, for most decent ball strikers I would guess it's around 5/6 iron, but when you are hitting the ball well, as in well enough to be consistent, this front to back dispersion and consistency matters. And maybe I'm biased, but when I stop listening to the words reviewers say and just look at their numbers, I don't see where this drop-off exists.

[Makuakane_Bear]

If I am being honest, I have no business playing blades. My golf game has taken a back seat due to work and family life. The game is really dependent on what time and effort you have put into it. 
With that said, I play what I want. Do blades make me a better player? No. Wearing Jordan’s/Kobe’s basketball shoes don’t make me a better basketball player. Just because I wear those shoes, I am not going to start dunking and hitting jump shots over everybody. I also am not going to criticize anybody who wears those shoes on a basketball court regardless of their skill level. The same goes for someone’s equipment. You like what you like, and if you can afford it, knock yourself out.

On Trackman, my mishits are punished with blades compared to cavity backs. The feedback is also very prevalent. That said, I have hit my best shots while playing my blades. I have hit my worst shots with blades, cbs, and gi clubs. Blades taught me to react differently to the results. 
On the golf course, my scores have not changed much. I think my course strategy has changed the most while playing with blades. I have to be honest with how I am hitting it that day because the results will NOT lie. I just can’t get away with a bad swing. I found while playing them, I am more honest with myself, my club selection, and the shot I am going to hit. I have also learned to fully commit to each shot and my strategy.

Mentally, the game does take more energy. I have to have shorter memory, I have to keep my emotions more in check, and I have to be mentally agile to keep reassessing the next shot. Golf is hard. 
Since making the change, I can say that I have personally enjoyed the game a lot more. I enjoy the challenge of trying to think and golf my way around the course.  Apparently, I am also a glutton for punishment- but if you love playing golf, than I am pretty sure you are too. 

[MK7Golf21]

I think most golfers would be fine 6 iron and up with blades, handicap should be very similar using blades vs. game improvement. I think with blades you do learn to start hitting an iron appropriately though, descending blow, just from the very design of it.

 

I remember being a kid and I walked into a golf shop and asked the college guy at the front desk the best irons they had in the shop. He showed me some mizuno blades and I came back and bought that set. From that day on I learned how to hit an iron appropriately. 

[MK7Golf21]

I'll also add this, I was playing that mizuno blade 3 iron for a few years. I picked up a ping 3 iron and I was hitting that thing like a 3 wood off the deck vs. my mizuno blade. So there are definite advantages to having a more forgiving long iron. Once you get to 6-7 iron, it doesn't matter.

[PTM]

53 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

I find the loss of distance on mishits to not be nearly the problem it is made out to be.  For the most part, the ball will come up short, and most golf holes, short is a better place to miss than left/right/long.  

 

Not to mention, and it may just be a n=1 scenario, but I found that the distance can be controlled better with blades.  CB's would sometimes be hot, and go 20 yards long.  

 

Blades all the way IMHO.  And I also think far more players can play them than there are people who think they can play them.

 

This guy gets it.

 

I'm an artist playing with blades, playing GI you're just a ditch digger.

[SouthBayGolfer]

5 minutes ago, Redjeep83 said:

I think most golfers would be fine 6 iron and up with blades, handicap should be very similar using blades vs. game improvement. I think with blades you do learn to start hitting an iron appropriately though, descending blow, just from the very design of it.

 

I remember being a kid and I walked into a golf shop and asked the college guy at the front desk the best irons they had in the shop. He showed me some mizuno blades and I came back and bought that set. From that day on I learned how to hit an iron appropriately. 

You say 6 iron and up but the lofts on most blades are pretty conservative. The 6 iron on my miura is 30 degrees of loft while the new p790's are 26.5 degrees of loft for their 6. You can almost treat it like a modern 7 iron. 

[MK7Golf21]

5 minutes ago, SouthBayGolfer said:

You say 6 iron and up but the lofts on most blades are pretty conservative. The 6 iron on my miura is 30 degrees of loft while the new p790's are 26.5 degrees of loft for their 6. You can almost treat it like a modern 7 iron. 

 

I'm talking strictly blades, 6 iron and up. 3,4 can start to get pretty difficult off the deck for some. 5 iron is kind of inbetween

[nsxguy]

57 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

I find the loss of distance on mishits to not be nearly the problem it is made out to be.  For the most part, the ball will come up short, and most golf holes, short is a better place to miss than left/right/long. 

 

My friend, I agree with the first (bolded) part. It's so obvious it's hardly worth discussing. But I couldn't disagree more with the 2nd part.

 

Forgetting for the moment that nobody hits it straight at the flag all the time or that the flag is centered all the time, short of the green has far more problems than long.

 

I just counted on my current home course. There are about 3 that have anything other than grass over the back of the green and 12 that have issues, either bunker(s) or water to catch the short shots.

 

That's not even counting right or left problems that, especially with the pin on the same side, are also problematic and are also short of the back of the green - i.e. IN play.

 

That's also not considering proximity to the hole which I doubt anybody would argue against, is the single largest factor in scoring.

 

Your tee ball (often) is the ONLY shot you want to hit as far as you can. EVERY other shot is primarily intended to go in, or at least as close as possible to, that 4.25" hole.

 

How may shots go past the hole rather than short of it ? Correct the first time - an awful lot of them. 60% ? 75% ? 90 % Why ? Because we all play for a "perfect" strike and we all know our distances.

 

But we often don't get a perfect strike and where are we ? Correct. SHORT(ER) of the green or short(er) of the hole.

 

Even disregarding a hazardous location, would you get it up and down more often from 5 YARDS short of the green ? Or 5 FEET short of the green ?

 

Would you sink a putt more often from 30 feet short of the pin or 15 feet short of the pin ? From 15 feet or 5 feet ?

 

Obivously, diffrences, if you could even count them, are measured in fractions of a stroke.

 

If you got up and down from that 5 YARDS off the green but didn't from 5 feet does that mean the blades are better ? After all, you made par with the blade and bogey with the GI. Of course not. You simply made a better chip (or putt) when you played the ball further away.

 

But I guarantee you would've preferred to be closer AND, in the long run, WOULD have a better stoke average from closer in.

 

Proximity to the hole is king - WHATEVER irons you play.

 

Everybody should play what they want for whatever reason(s) they want.

 

[SouthBayGolfer]

20 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

My friend, I agree with the first (bolded) part. It's so obvious it's hardly worth discussing. But I couldn't disagree more with the 2nd part.

 

Forgetting for the moment that nobody hits it straight at the flag all the time or that the flag is centered all the time, short of the green has far more problems than long.

 

I just counted on my current home course. There are about 3 that have anything other than grass over the back of the green and 12 that have issues, either bunker(s) or water to catch the short shots.

 

That's not even counting right or left problems that, especially with the pin on the same side, are also problematic and are also short of the back of the green - i.e. IN play.

 

That's also not considering proximity to the hole which I doubt anybody would argue against, is the single largest factor in scoring.

 

Your tee ball (often) is the ONLY shot you want to hit as far as you can. EVERY other shot is primarily intended to go in, or at least as close as possible to, that 4.25" hole.

 

How may shots go past the hole rather than short of it ? Correct the first time - an awful lot of them. 60% ? 75% ? 90 % Why ? Because we all play for a "perfect" strike and we all know our distances.

 

But we often don't get a perfect strike and where are we ? Correct. SHORT(ER) of the green or short(er) of the hole.

 

Even disregarding a hazardous location, would you get it up and down more often from 5 YARDS short of the green ? Or 5 FEET short of the green ?

 

Would you sink a putt more often from 30 feet short of the pin or 15 feet short of the pin ? From 15 feet or 5 feet ?

 

Obivously, diffrences, if you could even count them, are measured in fractions of a stroke.

 

If you got up and down from that 5 YARDS off the green but didn't from 5 feet does that mean the blades are better ? After all, you made par with the blade and bogey with the GI. Of course not. You simply made a better chip (or putt) when you played the ball further away.

 

But I guarantee you would've preferred to be closer AND, in the long run, WOULD have a better stoke average from closer in.

 

Proximity to the hole is king - WHATEVER irons you play.

 

Everybody should play what they want for whatever reason(s) they want.

 

I am not sure what the layout of the courses you play are but broadly speaking, most of the courses I play have a bunker or two around the green (usually on the sides or back, very rarely in the very front.) Other holes have raised greens so a miss left or right bounces further away from the hole or even into trouble (creeks or bushes, etc.). 

 

I think the point golfortennis is trying to make is rather than be left or right in a bunker or possible OB, they would rather be short and on the fairway. It is for similar reasons that I more often than not, will play my utility iron over my 3 wood. I know my 3 wood is longer than my 3 utility iron but the misses stay straight (but short). Misses on my 3 wood could slice or hook into trouble and I would much rather stay in the fairway and be short than be hooked or sliced into trouble. 

[benrd5420]

I will speak from my experience only, as I feel there has been some great discussion here.

 

At the beginning of the summer, as a general fan of gear, I swapped my Mizuno JPX 921 Hot Metal Pro's for a combo of Apex MB21 / X Forged CB 21.  I went from about a 12HCP to an 8HCP.  There are several reasons for this, but it came down to this for me:

1) I knew my miss better- which is to say a normal strike with the Pro's went X distance, a bad strike wasn't awful, but when I got it on the screws it had the chance to fly the green.  With the blade/cavity backs, I knew that if I struck it solid it would go X distance, and if I did not, it would be short. There was not extra gear.  That allowed me to shoot for the back half of the green, and if I didn't strike it pure, which we rarely do, it was predictably just short or on the front of the green.  Knowing this miss made my game more predictable.

 

2) For me, the Aim Small-Miss Small adage applies.  Living in Mesa, AZ, In December I took advantage of the low 0211ST prices to take a flyer on a fitting.  When I went the gentleman told me how blades are for +Handicaps, etc.  I told him I didn't disagree, but since I was paying for the fitting, to please just include them.  After going through Gen4 and Gen3, I consistently  found the center of the blades more often.  I was giving up 3-5 yards avg distance, but my dispersion was super small.  I asked what the advantage of going to the Gen3/4T model would be, and he said there didn't seem to be much.  

 

In the end I think you do give up forgiveness, and you certainly give up distance.  Many people have said it, and I cannot agree more that this is way more evident in the long irons and less penal in the short irons.  All the same, for me, my scores have been better with the better player irons, and I think it all comes down to consistency.  I will not blow it past anyone, and am probably pulling more club than some of my playing companion, but I know I can count on the consistency of the iron to put me in a predictable area.