Hogan Closed Again

[pjc]

1 hour ago, J13 said:

 

Basically the licensing fee's. Golf's margins are thin and if you're paying a licensing fee on top of that it's even thinner hence why more than a few have tried and failed at reviving the Hogan brand of clubs.  I also don't think the name resonates with the younger generation of golfers like it does with mine so it has even less value.  I think if Callaway kept the Hogan name it could have been cool.

Apex?

[Bad9]

1 hour ago, J13 said:

I also don't think the name resonates with the younger generation of golfers like it does with mine so it has even less value.  I think if Callaway kept the Hogan name it could have been cool.

 

The part I bolded was true in the early 2000's when Callaway got the Hogan name in the Spalding deal. The mystique of the name was already gone by that time as a market factor. despite the nostalgia for the name no one was buying the clubs and there were some very good clubs brought out under the Callaway ownership-the Apex Plus would still be a competitive club today in the players cavity market. I had a set back then and it was the only set of Hogans I ever saw on a golf course.

[J13]

15 minutes ago, pjc said:

Apex?

Callaway kept certain IP like Apex but not the Hogan name.  

 

10 minutes ago, Bad9 said:

 

The part I bolded was true in the early 2000's when Callaway got the Hogan name in the Spalding deal. The mystique of the name was already gone by that time as a market factor. despite the nostalgia for the name no one was buying the clubs and there were some very good clubs brought out under the Callaway ownership-the Apex Plus would still be a competitive club today in the players cavity market. I had a set back then and it was the only set of Hogans I ever saw on a golf course.

Yep exactly.  

[bekgolf]

1 hour ago, Bad9 said:

 

The part I bolded was true in the early 2000's when Callaway got the Hogan name in the Spalding deal. The mystique of the name was already gone by that time as a market factor. despite the nostalgia for the name no one was buying the clubs and there were some very good clubs brought out under the Callaway ownership-the Apex Plus would still be a competitive club today in the players cavity market. I had a set back then and it was the only set of Hogans I ever saw on a golf course.

 

I have a set of Hogan Apex Plus irons I bought on a whim a few years ago.  Haven't hit them yet, lol.  IMO they are the nicest looking irons I've ever owned. 

 

The Apex 19 I currently play are a nod to the Hogan line, at least Callaway kept some acknowledgment of the great name they purchased.

[Double Mocha Man]

33 minutes ago, bekgolf said:

I have a set of Hogan Apex Plus irons I bought on a whim a few years ago.  Haven't hit them yet, lol.  IMO they are the nicest looking irons I've ever owned. 

 

Why haven't you hit them yet???  I mean hell, just try 'em on the range...

[bekgolf]

1 minute ago, Double Mocha Man said:

 

Why haven't you hit them yet???  I mean hell, just try 'em on the range...

 

That's a good question I don't have the answer to.  I was all fired up when I got them and I've meant to take them but whenever I've gone to the range I'm working on something specific.  All I've done so far is fondle them, haven't even hit chips and pitches in the back yard.

 

Maybe in the spring, lol.

[cardigan]

Old thread.  Not sure if anyone has posted anything about it but I'm now seeing that the Ben Hogan web page is saying that Perry Ellis International and Golf Brands Inc have a licensing deal for the Ben Hogan brand name and are expecting a release in November.  I have no clue how long that announcement has been up.

Edited October 10, 2023 by cardigan

[HeadCovered]

12 minutes ago, cardigan said:

Old thread.  Not sure if anyone has posted anything about it but I'm now seeing that the Ben Hogan web page is saying that Perry Ellis International and Golf Brands Inc have a licensing deal for the Ben Hogan brand name and are expecting a release in November.  I have no clue how long that announcement has been up.

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/sacks-parente-golf-names-golf-industry-veteran-scott-white-as-its-chief-operating-officer-1032688670?op=1

[me05501]

Any new clubs under that name would have to be super compelling to even consider purchasing, IMO. 

 

They'd be smart to do high-quality forged irons reminiscent of their classic designs and that's it. There's a market for that. Not so much with woods, putters, wedges, etc. 

[Bad9]

2 minutes ago, me05501 said:

 

They'd be smart to do high-quality forged irons reminiscent of their classic designs and that's it. There's a market for that. Not so much with woods, putters, wedges, etc. 

I’ve said that from day one. Instead they came out with the Scor based models(which appear to have been quite good) which had nothing to do with Ben Hogan and totally missed the nostalgia aspect which I think would have been a great selling point. I think that has largely gone now though.

[Jag80]

How much profit would they make from forged MB and CB models?  If they would just be buying "house brands" from a forging house, maybe some.. Clothing would probably make more than any club they sell.

[me05501]

1 hour ago, Jag80 said:

How much profit would they make from forged MB and CB models?  If they would just be buying "house brands" from a forging house, maybe some.. Clothing would probably make more than any club they sell.

 

I agree. I think their clubs should be niche but there's a big opportunity in apparel. 

 

I suspect there's an undiscovered market segment halfway between modern irons and hickories...something that would really appeal to the guys playing minimalist golf out of retro bags. Offer all odds or all even sets. No high tech shaft options. Everything custom/bespoke. If you dabble in woods, maybe persimmons. 

 

 

[Bad9]

30 minutes ago, me05501 said:

 

I agree. I think their clubs should be niche but there's a big opportunity in apparel. 

 

I suspect there's an undiscovered market segment halfway between modern irons and hickories...something that would really appeal to the guys playing minimalist golf out of retro bags. Offer all odds or all even sets. No high tech shaft options. Everything custom/bespoke. If you dabble in woods, maybe persimmons. 

 

 

Ben Hogan apparel has been in Walmart(at least in Canada) for around 10yr, maybe longer

[me05501]

25 minutes ago, Bad9 said:

Ben Hogan apparel has been in Walmart(at least in Canada) for around 10yr, maybe longer

Interesting. Someone must own the international rights cause we don’t see that here in the states. 

[Bad9]

1 hour ago, me05501 said:

Interesting. Someone must own the international rights cause we don’t see that here in the states. 

Its actually pretty good stuff, not stupid thin and clingy like some are.

[Gsea]

2 hours ago, me05501 said:

Interesting. Someone must own the international rights cause we don’t see that here in the states. 

Hogan clothing is and was in Walmarts in the stares for years

[OnTheBag]

2 hours ago, Bad9 said:

Ben Hogan apparel has been in Walmart(at least in Canada) for around 10yr, maybe longer

The clothing copyright was sold off separate of the equipment line when Eidolon bought the branding rights from Perry Ellis.

[Jag80]

19 hours ago, OnTheBag said:

The clothing copyright was sold off separate of the equipment line when Eidolon bought the branding rights from Perry Ellis.

They should have tried to keep in "high end" like a Bobby Jones line.  I'm not a marketing genius so what do I know?

[JungleJimbo]

Saw this Hogan-related podcast (coming soon) mentioned, and thought some folks here might be interested

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2023 by JungleJimbo

[JungleJimbo]

 

 

[Rapatt95]

“Wait a minute..  THAT’S THE WARRIOR’S MUSIC”

 

 I’ve been playing the original PTx for 6 years, so I’m very excited to see what comes of this

[bobfoster]

On 12/14/2022 at 5:02 PM, Bad9 said:

On 12/14/2022 at 3:51 PM, J13 said:

I also don't think the name resonates with the younger generation of golfers like it does with mine so it has even less value.  I think if Callaway kept the Hogan name it could have been cool.

 

The part I bolded was true in the early 2000's when Callaway got the Hogan name in the Spalding deal. The mystique of the name was already gone by that time as a market factor. despite the nostalgia for the name no one was buying the clubs and there were some very good clubs brought out under the Callaway ownership-the Apex Plus would still be a competitive club today in the players cavity market. I had a set back then and it was the only set of Hogans I ever saw on a golf course.

 

+100. I'm one of those old guys. Played Hogan irons off and on in the 70s and 80s. Just superlative. The Apex then was what my Mizzy irons are to me now. But you guys nailed the crux of the problem.

 

A lot of the younger generation barely even knows that there were such a thing as Hogan clubs (in fact, some only vaguely know who Ben Hogan himself was). They certainly aren't something being talked about on HS team clubhouses (for instance), and I can't remember the last time I saw them stocked in a big box store. They just aren't relevant to young golfers.

 

But even to the old guys, for whom the name used to mean something significant, Hogans haven't really been "Hogans" for a couple of decades. They are no longer what we associated with what we thought of as Hogan clubs - they are now just sorta clubs with "Hogan" stamped on them by whatever random marketing department currently happens to have the trademark rights to the legacy brand. Which is worth less and less as the years pass. IMO, Hogan has been functionally dead for some little time now. And despite a few half-hearted attempts, I don't see anyone likely to successfully resurrect it.

 

Last time I saw someone actually gaming them on a course was a couple years ago. Guy that looked to be in his 70s playing (no kidding) original Apex IIs. Brought back fond memories. Felt sweet, close to the current Mizzy butter. Beautiful, almost razor thin topline. Offset about as close to zero as you can get. Players clubs. Big problem being, of course, that they had a sweet spot the approximate size of a pea. You were in heaven when you flushed one, but you spent a lot of your rounds in hell 😂.

 

Good times. Good times. 

[vandyfan]

Obviously there is money to be made in the "other" clubs like Drivers, Fairways, hybrids but I always thought that was part of the downfall of this latest iteration of Hogan. I am sure someone with more knowledge could tell me otherwise but I guess I see high level irons and wedges being easier to re-produce and compete with the major OEMs. I love my PTxPros and most things Ben Hogan but I never once thought about buying their woods. Seemed like a waste of tooling and resources to try to get into that market. 

 

But what do I know, Sub70, Haywood and Takomo all are making drivers so there must be some research or information that says that is a money making endeavor.