LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[Louis_Posture]

44 minutes ago, CDM said:

 

HAHAHAHA really?  I am sure you have not read the entire thread but the PGAT 100% had the upper had in the beginning.  They could have "talked" from the start, they did not out of ignorance and honestly talking  they did not have to give up anything.  Like now, so here we are 3 years out roughly and it is getting worse.

 

The PGA management does not have to talk to the Saudis and, or collaborate with any other pro golf entity. I don't believe it matters if some players leave the PGA Tour.

There are hundreds of great players willing and able to play the PGA Tour. 

[Pat du Golf]

4 minutes ago, woodriff said:

Oh well. Jon will be another golfer who virtually disappears unfortunately. Until a couple of days ago I really didn’t think he’d jump. 
Jon will appear on majors, but I suspect his game may be like many others. A little rusty due to not much playing, probably in the top 10 someplace, which has happened to so many. 
LIV will continue to struggle with a tv contract. Networks will hum and haw, unsure of the team and shot gun start format. 
No matter how many “stars” they grab, this is a league without a product. 
I’ll continue to watch the pga, as most will, until LIV is able to crack into a decent network. 
Why LIV started with this 54 hole shotgun start team format I’ll never know. If LIV had started with the conventional format they would have people knocking on their door.

 

No offense to you, I may add

We need to stop viewing geo strategic activities (I.e: golf) through the lens of network. Mark my word, LIV will go after the media as well. The same talking heads on the golf channel will sing LIV praises very soon. The Saudis will overhaul the current landscape of sports media. 
 

I TOLD YOU SO.

[woodriff]

2 hours ago, BirdieBob said:

I see from the foregoing posts that LIV GOLF just got alot LOUDER!!

Actually no. Darts is louder! 

[Louis_Posture]

52 minutes ago, wedgegame said:

only to do a complete 180 whilst hanging is own people out to dry

What are you referring to ?

[JetSpeed79]

13 minutes ago, Pat du Golf said:

I am back…. I told you all along that LIV meant business. No, I DON’t work for either entity.

 

- JM days are numbered 

- The PIP program $100M among 20 players was not welcomed among the rest of PGA players

- Why didn’t TW or RM turn down $15 M or $20 M they each received and shared it with other 250 players for their loyalty to the PGA Tour ( Greed or hypocrisy)?
- Mark my word! LIV will put the pga out of business in 18 months. Money is endless and the PGA players, sponsors, etc…have lost faith in JM

- TW is no longer relevant , he has done a lot for the game

- Nobody cares about legacy and even majors…. Cold hard 💰 move the world.

- don’t forget that LIV sovereign fund has roots across segments of our economy, political parties etc…. 
- this is war …

 

see you in 18 months

I TOLD YOU SO

 

6 minutes ago, Pat du Golf said:

Next on the tee.

 

- Pat C

- Xander

- Scotty S

- JT, Yes….him

Stop knocking on the LIV 🚪!!! stay on the PGA

 

- RM

- Billy Ho

 

LIV right now:

 

[diavolo]

well, Rahm did not look happy lately...He clearly had issues with the PGA and I also feel like he was maybe tired of Rory having such a huge name on the PGA tour. Not that Rahm was not recognized, but he would always be in the shadow of someone like Rory no matter how much he wins and well he plays....Like literally all questions in Ryder Cup press conference going to Rory...I think such matters hurt him deep inside...

Edited December 8, 2023 by diavolo

[Shilgy]

15 minutes ago, moora said:

 

Sure, they’re going to remove the traditional privilege of being a Masters winner from getting a lifetime of free entry because a player moved to another tour.

 

How about a winner moves from the DP World Tour to the PGA Tour? Should Augusta remove their lifetime free entry? Seve moved from the European tour to the PGA Tour after winning the Masters, maybe they should have stripped him of his lifetime of free entries? I mean, nobody wanted to watch Seve play after he moved to the more lucrative PGA Tour, so I’m surprised Augusta didn’t punish him for that.

They wouldn’t “have to” change any criteria .  It is an Invitational…they can choose to, or not to, invite anyone they wish.  The current criteria give a player the right to be invited….not the right to play.**

 

 

** I’m not suggesting they do this just that they can.  There is nothing in there that a felon can’t be invited but Cabrera hasn’t been the last few years to the best of my knowledge.  And typically even if a player is known to be unable to play he gets the invitation.

[Forescoreand7bogeysago]

Maybe they are gonna put rhambo in charge of the Yemeni raids 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Forescoreand7bogeysago

[Pat du Golf]

2 minutes ago, diavolo said:

well, Rahm did not look happy lately...He clearly had issues with the PGA and I also feel like he was maybe tired of Rory having such a huge name on the PGA tour. Not that Rahm was recognized, but he would always be in the shadow of someone like Rory no matter how much he wins and well he plays....Like literally all questions in Ryder Cup press conference going to Rory...I think such matters hurt him deep inside...

Don’t trust RM, I can assure you that his team tried and tried to make a deal with LIV and got turned down. He is not a well like person behind the scenes. Watch TW next move… 🦗 🦗 RM is on an island of regrets…. 
 

I TOLD YOU SO

[Louis_Posture]

18 minutes ago, Pat du Golf said:

- Mark my word! LIV will put the pga out of business in 18 months. Money is endless and the PGA players, sponsors, etc…have lost faith in JM

O

There are always hundreds of great players willing and able to play the PGA Tour, so the PGA Tour is not in jeopardy of going "out of business".

[Pat du Golf]

Just now, Louis_Posture said:

There are always hundreds of great players willing and able to play the PGA Tour, so the PGA Tour is not in jeopardy of going "out of business".

The PGAT will be a feeder tour to LIV. 

TW needs to replace JM and help innovate the current product. 
at the end of the day, LIV is not going anywhere and the mark is way high for the PGAT to compete. MORE TO COME and see you in 18 months

[Shilgy]

I will add…..how is LIV “winning”?  There is a contingent of posters here claiming LIV/PIF has won the war.  How?

 

If Musk spent billions on Tesla and they sold zero cars would that be a win to you guys as well?  How does throwing good money after bad constitute a business win to you guys?

 

They will probably sign a handful of more players…and some will be missed for a short while.   But think about it.  We just had a really good PGA Tour season imo….a real battle for player of the year between Rahm and Scheffler….Hovland won what? $35m and wasn’t in the race.  Take out Rahm and insert Hovland and it’s still a good contest.  And we had an exciting rookie of the year battle between Cole and Aberg.

 

Just a year and a half later…two seasons….does anyone REALLY miss the players that left? Has it reduced your enjoyment of the PGA Tour?  Players leave the tour all the time.  Some age out to the Champions tour and some retire.  And we continue to get great young players to watch.

 

In contrast..look at the names playing in the LIV “qschool”. Who???

[wedgegame]

6 minutes ago, Louis_Posture said:

What are you referring to ?

 

Evoking 9/11 families as a defense against Saudi money in golf and rallying the players to defend the tour, only to announce a merger with them once the legal bills started to pile up and the monopoly was in jeopardy.  Oh and not telling the players about the merger announcement resulting in them finding out through the media.  Jay wanted his pay day too and basically sold out everyone around him to get it, so no I don't respect Jay's leadership and the tour would be better off with someone else at the helm.

[Gregakin]

1 minute ago, Pat du Golf said:

The PGAT will be a feeder tour to LIV. 

TW needs to replace JM and help innovate the current product. 
at the end of the day, LIV is not going anywhere and the mark is way high for the PGAT to compete. MORE TO COME and see you in 18 months

Not even TW can compete with the PIF. 

[Shilgy]

2 minutes ago, Pat du Golf said:

The PGAT will be a feeder tour to LIV. 

TW needs to replace JM and help innovate the current product. 
at the end of the day, LIV is not going anywhere and the mark is way high for the PGAT to compete. MORE TO COME and see you in 18 months

LIV/PIF  is a spoiled multi billionaire pissing money down the drain.

[Louis_Posture]

1 minute ago, Pat du Golf said:

The PGAT will be a feeder tour to LIV. 

 

Maybe that will happen, and if it does, no problem. If the Saudis want to buy pro golfers that is their right to do so. The PGA Tour will continue to have sensational players hitting great shots and shooting low scores.

[Ghost of Snead]

9 minutes ago, Pat du Golf said:

The PGAT will be a feeder tour to LIV. 

TW needs to replace JM and help innovate the current product. 
at the end of the day, LIV is not going anywhere and the mark is way high for the PGAT to compete. MORE TO COME and see you in 18 months

 

18 months is too soon - make it 5 years 

[NPVWhiz]

43 minutes ago, golfgirlrobin said:

Every story has to have a villain, and for some reason, people have picked Monahan over an actual murderous dictator. It’s weird, 

Edited December 8, 2023 by NPVWhiz
Changed my mind about getting involved in this.

[northplatteriver]

Other than the majors, when I get the urge to watch watch golf I just pull up the old Wonderful World of Shell golf matches on YouTube.  So tired of all the egos and gear that seems like borderline cheating anymore.  It is really the big professional names and power game that had turned me off to golf.  Since getting back into golf using vintage\antique gear my love for the game has come back again.  Also looking forward to the new dialed back golf ball rules.  If I see another 400 yard drive outside of a long drive competition I may actually barf.  Both tours can s@#K it, in my opinion.

[Zitlow]

I wonder if Willy Z is second guessing his decision to pass on a $100+ million offer from LIV. 

[Zitlow]

Rahm's coach and mentor at ASU was Phil's brother Tim. That probably played into Rahm's decision to leave the PGAT. 

[stinger_gc]

8 minutes ago, Zitlow said:

I wonder if Willy Z is second guessing his decision to pass on a $100+ million offer from LIV. 

No one is offering Yippy Willy $100m 😂

Edited December 8, 2023 by stinger_gc

[DFS PFD]

19 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

I will add…..how is LIV “winning”?  There is a contingent of posters here claiming LIV/PIF has won the war.  How?

 

If Musk spent billions on Tesla and they sold zero cars would that be a win to you guys as well?  How does throwing good money after bad constitute a business win to you guys?

 

They will probably sign a handful of more players…and some will be missed for a short while.   But think about it.  We just had a really good PGA Tour season imo….a real battle for player of the year between Rahm and Scheffler….Hovland won what? $35m and wasn’t in the race.  Take out Rahm and insert Hovland and it’s still a good contest.  And we had an exciting rookie of the year battle between Cole and Aberg.

 

Just a year and a half later…two seasons….does anyone REALLY miss the players that left? Has it reduced your enjoyment of the PGA Tour?  Players leave the tour all the time.  Some age out to the Champions tour and some retire.  And we continue to get great young players to watch.

 

In contrast..look at the names playing in the LIV “qschool”. Who???

I don't care about LIV, at all. No dog in the fight. That being said, I think you need to look at this differently. These guys can piss away a few billion dollars and it won't have any effect whatsoever in their lives or wellbeing. This isn't a corporation looking at the general ledger bottom line at the end of the year, it's 100% a public influence/perception operation. They probably have a $10B+ budget for this to try and influence the west's public perception of them through sports-washing. So while it may not be a win in the traditional financial year bottom line assessment, they seem to be influencing westerner's both good and bad reading through this conversation. 

[KennyP]

2 hours ago, Konklifer said:

Admit from the jump they sold their soul for money and accept it. This 'growing the game' b.s. that each one of them spew has become so transparent, it's as if it's in contract. 

 

 

Not trying to defend Rahm, or any other player, but if they said 'I went for the money' then they would be pilloried for that too. Sort of damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

 

I've seen dozens of leaving speeches at work where people are leaving 'to pursue a new challenge' when we know it's really all about the Benjamins.

[Ghost of Snead]

2 minutes ago, DFS PFD said:

I don't care about LIV, at all. No dog in the fight. That being said, I think you need to look at this differently. These guys can piss away a few billion dollars and it won't have any effect whatsoever in their lives or wellbeing. This isn't a corporation looking at the general ledger bottom line at the end of the year, it's 100% a public influence/perception operation. They probably have a $10B+ budget for this to try and influence the west's public perception of them through sports-washing. So while it may not be a win in the traditional financial year bottom line assessment, they seem to be influencing westerner's both good and bad reading through this conversation. 

 

Golfers make up a small % of the population. If SA really want to improve their perception in the West, they'd take other measures. 

[DFS PFD]

Just now, Ghost of Snead said:

 

Golfers make up a small % of the population. If SA really want to improve their perception in the West, they'd take other measures. 

They have, are you familiar with F1, Soccer, heck even Crossfit? Sports-washing is pretty offers a very broad/diverse reach for them now, they are all heavily influenced with SA advertising now. You don't have to agree with me, doesn't mean I'm wrong though. 

[HeadCovered]

41 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

I will add…..how is LIV “winning”?  There is a contingent of posters here claiming LIV/PIF has won the war.  How?

 

If Musk spent billions on Tesla and they sold zero cars would that be a win to you guys as well?  How does throwing good money after bad constitute a business win to you guys?

 

They will probably sign a handful of more players…and some will be missed for a short while.   But think about it.  We just had a really good PGA Tour season imo….a real battle for player of the year between Rahm and Scheffler….Hovland won what? $35m and wasn’t in the race.  Take out Rahm and insert Hovland and it’s still a good contest.  And we had an exciting rookie of the year battle between Cole and Aberg.

 

Just a year and a half later…two seasons….does anyone REALLY miss the players that left? Has it reduced your enjoyment of the PGA Tour?  Players leave the tour all the time.  Some age out to the Champions tour and some retire.  And we continue to get great young players to watch.

 

In contrast..look at the names playing in the LIV “qschool”. Who???

 

But that's not the point at all in any of this when it pertains to the GAME of golf. 

There are other Tours around the world. South Africa, Australia, Japan, and Asia, and people, as in humans, just PLAY golf wherever they can get games, and also do qualifying to go play wherever there is a chance. 

The PGA Tour is not necessarily the best, nor does it necessarily have the best players, not at all. It had been the place of the most money, and it's also in the country that supposedly has the 3 "majors" that have also the most money and most value as qualifying and worth to get long-term status on the Tour without having to play in qualifying events year in year out. Winners get that status and membership. 

But let's just say, hypothetically,  that a different Tour decided to provide more money with more opportunities and majors in various other countries and turns out to be bigger than the PGA Tour. Not saying LIV, but pretend there's a World Tour that is bigger than the PGA Tour. Players from around the world, including the US, would go play in it, because of the money and the opportunities for more money and status and the prestige. But that Tour would play in a different country every week, and travel the world every week - 

do you think many American players would be able to handle that? Or any player from any country having to travel to a different country every week for events? That would truly showcase who is the best player in the World, not just a claimed best player from the PGA Tour considered to be the best over there, having to play the majority of their events within the US only and one major outside, with a couple during the so-called off-season somewhere else. 

 

Not saying LIV is that new Tour bigger and more than the PGA Tour. But it is ANOTHER Tour. 

 

But at the same time, we have to be able to imagine a future that there would be a unification tour that does play around the world, shifting the focus from the Americentic one, doing something like things like Formula One, MotoGP, SuperBike, and Tennis, are doing and have been doing, for a long time. The "Euro" DP World Tour, in fact, does this pretty much already. If it managed to get more money, and became the big money Tour, it could surpass the PGA Tour, but for some reason, it's in a weird agreement with the PGA Tour NOT to do that. 

And that's the ONLY reason why the PGA Tour is panicking now with what LIV brought, and are in uproar, because its "traditions" of the past 70 years is about to actually be usurped. 

 

But the game of golf, the WORLD game of golf, and for those living around the world playing the game - see nothing wrong with the game going to that extent.

You could also argue that, if the game had already been that way for the past 30 years, would the Americans have been so-called dominant, would TW have won as many, etc etc....... many would argue NO, him and other Americans would also find it difficult to play in many different countries week in week out, having to travel and NOT have a base near their home, being away all the time, dealing with the language barriers and cultures every week. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by HeadCovered

[Ghost of Snead]

3 minutes ago, DFS PFD said:

They have, are you familiar with F1, Soccer, heck even Crossfit? Sports-washing is pretty offers a very broad/diverse reach for them now, they are all heavily influenced with SA advertising now. You don't have to agree with me, doesn't mean I'm wrong though. 

 

I'm well aware they're into all of the above but in my panoramic lens, they are still wolves in sheep's clothing. To each their own.

[DFS PFD]

Just now, Ghost of Snead said:

 

I'm well aware they're into all of the above but in my panoramic lens, they are still wolves in sheep's clothing. To each their own.

Of course they are wolves in sheep's clothing. I'm not arguing that at all. 

[Dave230]

56 minutes ago, diavolo said:

well, Rahm did not look happy lately...He clearly had issues with the PGA and I also feel like he was maybe tired of Rory having such a huge name on the PGA tour. Not that Rahm was recognized, but he would always be in the shadow of someone like Rory no matter how much he wins and well he plays....Like literally all questions in Ryder Cup press conference going to Rory...I think such matters hurt him deep inside...

That’s fame though. If Tiger was on the team then all Rory’s questions would go to Tiger. It was also in the context of there being a bust up the previous day with Cantlay’s caddie, that’s why all the questions were asked. Going to LIV won’t help his fame if that’s what he’s after.