LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[leezer99]

Can we at least start speculating on how much more Hideki would get from the PIF now that he won the Genesis and is the #1 winningest Asian golfer?

 

I'm guessing it's more than Jon but less than Tiger was offered. 

[stinger_gc]

On 2/18/2024 at 1:36 PM, bscinstnct said:

You put on the Genesis and it’s so far superior to LIV on multiple levels, it’s just embarrassing to even call LIV a golf tour.

 

It’s no surprise that even with the absurd sign ons, LIV can’t get traction. 
 

You see the pga tour and it’s like comparing a Mercedes to

 

Hit the nail on the head. The thing with LIV is these events are just cash grabs.

[ThinkingPlus]

1 hour ago, idrive said:

 

We weren't talking about/referring to what your reply is about.

 

We were talking about appearance money.

 

And, (all) your posts would be much easier to follow if you would proofread them before posting.

I'm sure he gets paid by the word. The words don't have to make sense.

[CDM]

5 hours ago, ahenderX said:

Maybe I’m misreading what you are saying. In my opinion, the whole point of giving these large equity amounts and/or bonuses, and having these vest over a 4-5 year period, is to keep these players from defecting to LIV. If there is no Tour/PIF deal, LIV will not be around in four years. 

 

We are the same page.  Fully a strucure to keep the players from defecting. 

 

I know the PGAT is not releasing much info at this point, other than what appears that 20-30 some players get most of the money or a majority.   

 

I am just wondering how someone like Aberg gets more equity in the tour if he becomes the next big "star" ?

 

Does Aberg pay them for it? Is it stock?  Do they just give him more "equity" in the PGAT based on performance?

 

Which would only delute the value over time if revenue does not go up.  *IE: top sponsors dropping out but the current valuation was done before they lost 3 top sponsors over the last 6 months.

 

It could be an ESOP but history has shown how those go............

[GG43]

LIV/ PIF is irrational capital.  It will always win for those players who prioritize money.  I'm not going to judge them.  Of course traditional equity has a vesting period - that's how it works and that's what the PGAT is doing.  If someone wants to go to LIV, they will go to LIV.  They will make more money.  For those on the Tour that care about things beyond that - legacy, competition, tradition - they may remain on the PGAT and still make a fine living if they perform well.  The equity they get, which will never rival LIV, is a step in the right direction and will likely help a bit with their decision.  

[PedronNiall]

7 hours ago, CDM said:

 

Dead on it is SSG 

 

I would bet Jimmy D came up with the vesting aspect LOL    He fits the mold of the '90s and early 2000's "scare tatic" guy to save firms from loosing employees.  "well if you leave now you loose 60% what we put in your account".... 🤣

 

I know the tour has to do something but hate to say It, after reading this I am now waiting to see if the move the Fedex cup bonus money into this "vesting" situation again.  

 

Pretty sure the Fedex cup money was paid out over time prior and the players snapped back and it is now paid up front. 

 

If they do move the FEDEX cup money into back into vesting which if a players makes the Fedex cup say 4-5 years in a row, that vesting period carries over each year they play for that said year... over and over and over, year after year after year.     

 

PGAT is a business and they have to keep the employees (players) or there is no business so this is for sure is one way to handcuff players without really paying them via contracts and all up front.  Give them a tons of money but making them have to wait 5 years for it ensures you keep them VS having to pay them now with someone elses money............

 The vesting was necessary for the reasons others mentioned. Realistically it's surprising the PIF gave the LIV players the straight payout they did, even with the penalties attached if they left. That like many other things speaks to the abnormalities of the entire LIV side. While part of the NFL, etc., holding money back is because they only want to pay out for actual seasons played, it's also because they can do things, including lending & earning interest other ways, with those hundreds of millions each year that they are able to hold back those dollars for a time. 

 

Outside of something like the PIF you'd be hard pressed to find anyone throwing such massive lump sums at players. Granted Phil's very candid statements at the beginning of all this tell what kind of group is behind the money, it's still a very unusual arrangement simply from a potential earnings standpoint. 

[Titleist99]

2 hours ago, leezer99 said:

Can we at least start speculating on how much more Hideki would get from the PIF now that he won the Genesis and is the #1 winningest Asian golfer?

 

I'm guessing it's more than Jon but less than Tiger was offered. 

Two things that tell me that Hideki would never go play leisure golf.

 

#1. At his presser, he said that there was a time when he thought that due to injuries that he'd never win again yet he stayed with the PGAT. I'm sure he received a big offer from LIV. 

 

#2. Hideki stated that although he won the tournament, he was very disappointed that he didn't get the opportunity to take a picture with Tiger.

 

Japan is PGAT territory. I'd be shocked if he made that move but then again, I was shocked when Rahm put on the red clown nose.

[leezer99]

7 hours ago, Titleist99 said:

Two things that tell me that Hideki would never go play leisure golf.

 

#1. At his presser, he said that there was a time when he thought that due to injuries that he'd never win again yet he stayed with the PGAT. I'm sure he received a big offer from LIV. 

 

#2. Hideki stated that although he won the tournament, he was very disappointed that he didn't get the opportunity to take a picture with Tiger.

 

Japan is PGAT territory. I'd be shocked if he made that move but then again, I was shocked when Rahm put on the red clown nose.

 

I remember when LIV was starting up and Hideki signing with the leisure league was a done deal. The following week the deal was off because a certain player got in his ear. At the time he would have been the highest paid player by the PIF. 

[pingbling23]

sergio says hes playing his 4 minimum events next year on the dp tour and getting his membership back while also playing his 14 liv events.

[idrive]

36 minutes ago, pingbling23 said:

sergio says hes playing his 4 minimum events next year on the dp tour and getting his membership back while also playing his 14 liv events.

 

If Sergio can figure out he's completely irrelevant and forgotten already, I'm thinking most of the others have figured it out by now as well.

[pingbling23]

46 minutes ago, idrive said:

 

If Sergio can figure out he's completely irrelevant and forgotten already, I'm thinking most of the others have figured it out by now as well.

to you and others maybe.  hes still one of the greatest ryder cup members of all time and has many fans around the world.  people really need to think outside of their bubble.

[subrew]

7 hours ago, leezer99 said:

 

I remember when LIV was starting up and Hideki signing with the leisure league was a done deal. The following week the deal was off because a certain player got in his ear. At the time he would have been the highest paid player by the PIF. 

 

There was actually a bit more to it:

 

https://www.si.com/golf/news/pga-tour-threatens-ban-japan-golf-tour-players-who-compete-liv-golf-events

 

The PGAT threatened the JGTO that any player playing in a LIV event would lose the ability to play in the two largest Japanese Tour events, because they are co-sanctioned by the PGAT.  Also language that included not being able to play any PGAT sanctioned events under exemptions too.   And being able to attend PGAT Q school.

 

A week after, all the JGTO players that had been playing on LIV were no shows in Boston. 

[Titleist99]

44 minutes ago, pingbling23 said:

to you and others maybe.  hes still one of the greatest ryder cup members of all time and has many fans around the world.  people really need to think outside of their bubble.

Ryder Cup member? 🤣

[idrive]

7 hours ago, pingbling23 said:

to you and others maybe.  hes still one of the greatest ryder cup members of all time and has many fans around the world.  people really need to think outside of their bubble.

 

Maybe others?  Start a poll asking if they're a fan of Sergio's.  Yes, there are some, but outside of folks that like crybabies and immaturity, he isn't missed.

 

I'll admit it's going to be fun watching him crawl back to the DPWT to try and get some OWGR points. 

🤣

 

 

 

.

Edited February 20 by idrive
sp

[idrive]

1 hour ago, subrew said:

 

There was actually a bit more to it:

 

https://www.si.com/golf/news/pga-tour-threatens-ban-japan-golf-tour-players-who-compete-liv-golf-events

 

The PGAT threatened the JGTO that any player playing in a LIV event would lose the ability to play in the two largest Japanese Tour events, because they are co-sanctioned by the PGAT.  Also language that included not being able to play any PGAT sanctioned events under exemptions too.   And being able to attend PGAT Q school.

 

A week after, all the JGTO players that had been playing on LIV were no shows in Boston. 

 

Why is this news?  The PGAT told everybody the same thing. This was not just the JGTO being singled out.

[PlatinumNike]

Hear me out

 

Since they’ve already dumped so much money into LIV

 

what if they just build their version of the majors

 

Imagine a copycat version of Augusta with Azaleas 🌸 except you get a gold jacket because everyone knows gold is better than green

[Titleist99]

3 hours ago, PlatinumNike said:

Hear me out

 

Since they’ve already dumped so much money into LIV

 

what if they just build their version of the majors

 

Imagine a copycat version of Augusta with Azaleas 🌸 except you get a gold jacket because everyone knows gold is better than green

And then LIV puts out a statement saying that they invented the Masters tournament.🤣

[leezer99]

4 hours ago, PlatinumNike said:

Hear me out

 

Since they’ve already dumped so much money into LIV

 

what if they just build their version of the majors

 

Imagine a copycat version of Augusta with Azaleas 🌸 except you get a gold jacket because everyone knows gold is better than green

 

You could quadruple the money yet would get a big fat goose egg of the prestige they are looking for. 

[notsohard]

20 hours ago, leezer99 said:

 

I remember when LIV was starting up and Hideki signing with the leisure league was a done deal. The following week the deal was off because a certain player got in his ear. At the time he would have been the highest paid player by the PIF. 

All Japanese team in the works for next year.

 

[heynow]

One way to bring both the tours together is to have top 12 PGA vs top 12 LIV match in complete Ryder / President's Cup style format.  

 

I would love to see it.  Scottie and Rory are teammates,   DJ and Rahm are teammates.  Wild!

 

[freeze16172002]

14 hours ago, PlatinumNike said:

Hear me out

 

Since they’ve already dumped so much money into LIV

 

what if they just build their version of the majors

 

Imagine a copycat version of Augusta with Azaleas 🌸 except you get a gold jacket because everyone knows gold is better than green

Did you think this through. The same players in every event, but this one is a major? Matt Jones, Danny Lee, Pat Perez etc are playing in majors? Good luck trying to sell that, but I wouldn't put it passed LIV decision makers

[dcmidnight]

To me the interesting thing will be when they start to have some of these contracts come up for renewal - are they going to keep dumping billions into new contracts for the bottom 30 or so guys and getting absolutely nothing in return?

 

They've succesfully disrupted golf as we know it. They've proved the PGAT can do better. They've paid out truckloads of money and bought players who had previously said they could not be bought.

 

OK. Now what? Whats the next move? They aren't getting OWGR points like they initially thought. They aren't getting companies to pay them billions to buy teams like they initially thought. So when these contracts start to expire, are these mid/bottom pack players going to take the money they got and try to make their way back to the main tours?

[Cactus Jack]

Common sense prevails. Juaquin Niemann to the Masters! 
 

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/39568251/liv-golf-joaquin-niemann-3-get-masters-invitations

[RSLP]

https://www.essentiallysports.com/golf-news-pif-governor-yasir-al-rumayyan-abruptly-enters-pga-tour-champions-pro-am-amid-crushing-liv-golf-merger-limbo/

[bscinstnct]

 

[jaffabell]

In other news, looks like Neimann has been given a special invite to the Masters, good for him. I do enjoy watching him play!

 

On that note, does anyone know if Gooch is exempt to play? I assume not...

 

If not, that must sting considering he is the reigning LIV champion, and doesn't get an invite on the back of that?

[bcjim]

22 hours ago, pingbling23 said:

to you and others maybe.  hes still one of the greatest ryder cup members of all time and has many fans around the world.  people really need to think outside of their bubble.

Since 2017 he has 13 MC in 20 majors played. 

[bscinstnct]

33 minutes ago, RSLP said:

https://www.essentiallysports.com/golf-news-pif-governor-yasir-al-rumayyan-abruptly-enters-pga-tour-champions-pro-am-amid-crushing-liv-golf-merger-limbo/

Combined with the JN masters exemption 

 

I think it means the deal is done 

[hunterdog]

17 hours ago, PlatinumNike said:

Hear me out

 

Since they’ve already dumped so much money into LIV

 

what if they just build their version of the majors

 

Imagine a copycat version of Augusta with Azaleas 🌸 except you get a gold jacket because everyone knows gold is better than green

I have thought about that. What if the Saudis started competing events against the dates of the four majors? Purse for each event =  $100 million, $50 million to winner; and bonus pool for how the players compete in all four events. Exemptions based on fame, past 20 years results in majors, all LIV players, and top 30 from PGAT if they are exempt into the majors. Who plays where?

[dcmidnight]

6 minutes ago, hunterdog said:

I have thought about that. What if the Saudis started competing events against the dates of the four majors? Purse for each event =  $100 million, $50 million to winner; and bonus pool for how the players compete in all four events. Exemptions based on fame, past 20 years results in majors, all LIV players, and top 30 from PGAT if they are exempt into the majors. Who plays where?

 

Again I'll get back to - what is their goal? Just to throw around more money and prove they have more money? Everyone sort of gets that by now. Even people who still despise LIV, we get it, they are going to always have more money than the PGAT.

 

To me these events would just make LIV look like an elitist clown show even more than it already does.