LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[SnowbirdTom]

That announced deal framework was like mom and dad telling you as a kid: "we'll talk about it".  IOW, go to your room and pout.  It ain't happening.

[leezer99]

10 hours ago, bekgolf said:

 

I have zero interest in seeing any of the players who went over.  It's sad because I really liked following Bryson and Rahm on tour.  The were two fantastic golfers with a lot of personality involved in their games. 

 

The Liv guys left their fans on the PGA Tour.  Did they really think that people would follow them over to Liv just because we liked seeing them on tour?  It's a significant miscalculation by all involved. 

 

It's so sad that this happened to professional golf.

 

Used to follow Rahm, Pat Perez and Phil at Torrey every year and they had huge followings because PP and PM were from the area and Rahm adopted Torrey as his favorite course. If you haven't seen it, they used to get huge chants from the crowd as they came down 18 on the South Course. It was awesome.

 

I think that's what Rahm is missing because nobody followed him over to LIV like he thought they would. 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

PGAtour.com continues to see rising web traffic interest despite being a "mature" organization. Whereas the newcomer livgolf.com is fairly flat and should be growing.  This is probably especially concerning for LIV because livgolf.com is the primary entry point for viewing the product.  I'm sure the PGAT see's this a position of strength because LIV isn't growing.

 

While PIF is throwing money to recruit big name players and having them leave is sometimes shocking and newsworthy, it's not helping LIV grow.  The biggest pop for LIV occurred around AK.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 15 by BlackDiamondPar5

[bcjim]

Lucas Glover had some interesting and rather stern comments this morning in an interview played on sxm golf. He ridiculed the notion of golfers negotiating deals.  He didn't directly call out Cantlay & Co. but you could listen between the lines quite easily.

 

I feel the same.  The players and mgmt should define an acceptable scenario then mgmt can do the business part of the business.  

 

 

[Golferpaul]

11 hours ago, bekgolf said:

 

I have zero interest in seeing any of the players who went over.  It's sad because I really liked following Bryson and Rahm on tour.  T

I do.  I loved watching them at the Masters.

 

I'm still a fan of Norman, Mickelson, Rahm, Dechambeau, Johnson, Reed, etc because I don't hate somebody for their choice of where to work.  I've enjoyed watching them for decades and won't stop just because they left the PGAT.

 

 

[freeze16172002]

13 hours ago, tomjas said:

Rahm hasn’t won yet and is frustrated 

 

You only need to watch LIV to know that 

Rahm thought he is the straw that would back the camels back. Now he is playing in the clown show as the star clown. 

[freeze16172002]

14 minutes ago, Golferpaul said:

I do.  I loved watching them at the Masters.

 

I'm still a fan of Norman, Mickelson, Rahm, Dechambeau, Johnson, Reed, etc because I don't hate somebody for their choice of where to work.  I've enjoyed watching them for decades and won't stop just because they left the PGAT.

 

 

I was wondering if Reed had a fan, now I know

[Jolter]

If Woods, Cantley, Spieth and the rest of the board have the same opinion and attitude as the announcers on the GC as to response to what Rahm said, then PIF might as well find another tour to make a deal with or rethink what it wants to do legally as any further negotiations with the PGATour might be dead in the water.

[johnseg]

2 hours ago, freeze16172002 said:

Rahm thought he is the straw that would back the camels back. Now he is playing in the clown show as the star clown. 

[Golferpaul]

2 hours ago, freeze16172002 said:

I was wondering if Reed had a fan, now I know

I enjoy watching the more colorful golfers like Reed, Sergio, Mickelson, and Bryson.  They are exciting.

[jls667]

45 minutes ago, Jolter said:

If Woods, Cantley, Spieth and the rest of the board have the same opinion and attitude as the announcers on the GC as to response to what Rahm said, then PIF might as well find another tour to make a deal with or rethink what it wants to do legally as any further negotiations with the PGATour might be dead in the water.

 

I can't imagine they're far off from having the same opinion and attitude. I know that at least Bryson has complained about Woods not returning his calls, and I doubt he's the only one Woods has cut off.

 

Truthfully, no one on this earth has any more of right to be pissed about how everything that has happened in the last couple years than Tiger himself. Every professional golfer has financially benefitted an unquantifiable amount of money all because of him. Golf was a collection of average joes before he came around. He turned the golf world upside down, brought billions of eye balls to the sport that weren't there before and the increase in money on tour reflected it. It was him who did that and no one else. Then these LIV guys says "Thanks but we want more" even though none of them could do what Tiger did for the game.

 

So if I was Tiger, yeah I'd be just as pissed as the GC guys if not way more so. These LIV guys trying to make a deal to get back is like having your kids ask to move back in with you after ghosting you for two years and trying to burn all your possessions despite you raising them and giving them everything you could. You may try to work with your kids because you love them but it's delusional to think that they should just be able to return home like nothing happened. 

[idrive]

41 minutes ago, Jolter said:

If Woods, Cantley, Spieth and the rest of the board have the same opinion and attitude as the announcers on the GC as to response to what Rahm said, then PIF might as well find another tour to make a deal with or rethink what it wants to do legally as any further negotiations with the PGATour might be dead in the water.

 

Just what are they supposed to "do legally"?  Sue because their feelings are hurt?  Sue because they have to pay millions of $'s to get anybody to come play with them?

 

They should sue the general public for not watching or caring about them.

[TiScape]

23 minutes ago, Golferpaul said:

I enjoy watching the more colorful golfers like Reed, Sergio, Mickelson, and Bryson.  They are exciting.

I also like watching all these guys play. Well except for Reed. To me his game is par for the course. (I’d much rather watch Rahm play than Reed) Like w/a lot of athletes it’s when they are off the course and start talking that they get “hard to be around”. Perfect example is Rahm’s PGA presser yesterday. Not often I wanna go thru the TV screen and laugh at someone and say “ur kidding me right?” bcs I just don’t allow myself to get that affected by that stuff… But gotta admit I felt that way yesterday after watching his presser. 😳

Edited May 15 by TiScape

[ahenderX]

11 months and no deal. That’s a good sign PIF will not get what it wants. As stated previously, there may be a couple of Aramco events created to bring all players together, but not much more than this. As much as I dislike LIV and its backers, I could live with two tournaments sponsored by Aramco. SA/PIF can then move on and take over pickle ball and maybe buy a large mirror to look into each morning. 

Edited May 15 by ahenderX

[Archimedes65]

10 hours ago, redfirebird08 said:

Anyone see Scheffler’s comments? That is the most outspoken he has been on the topic until now. Wonder how many others on Tour have a similar feeling about not flying overseas with young children at home. 
 

"I think the PGA Tour has always been the best place to play and that's where all the eyes are," world No. 1 golfer Scottie Scheffler told ESPN. "We tried a little bit of the world tour stuff with tournaments in China, Korea and stuff like that, and they hadn't really worked out.”

 

Scheffler continued, "It's just what you're used to, and I think that's where we always go back to -- just being comfortable. Eight to 10 times [outside the U.S.] would be a lot just based on traveling and our bodies. I think that's a big ask, especially with people having families. The guys that come over from Europe and they play over here, they usually come over in stretches."

 

I’d bet that a majority of the PGA Tour membership, maybe an overwhelming majority, would be against playing outside North America more than 1-2 times (excluding the Open of course), much less 8-10 times.

[freeze16172002]

22 minutes ago, Golferpaul said:

I enjoy watching the more colorful golfers like Reed, Sergio, Mickelson, and Bryson.  They are exciting.

Reed and Garcia play exciting golf? Colorful and unlikeable aren't synonyms. 

[Archimedes65]

21 minutes ago, TiScape said:

I also like watching all these guys play. Well except for Reed. To me his game is par for the course. (I’d much rather watch Rahm play than Reed) Like w/a lot of athletes it’s when they are off the course and start talking that they get “hard to be around”. Perfect example is Rahm’s PGA presser yesterday. Not often I wanna go thru the TV screen and laugh at someone and say “ur kidding me right?” bcs I just don’t allow myself to get that affected by that stuff… But gotta admit I felt that way yesterday after watching his presser. 😳

 

Every time Rahm opens his mouth, it adds leverage for the Tour not to do anything but an overwhelmingly favorable deal.  It’s obvious he misses the PGA Tour already and the ink is barely dry on his deposit slip.  That is not lost on current PGA Tour members, and Scottie’s comments said as much.  He’s not alone in that thinking.

[Archimedes65]

37 minutes ago, Golferpaul said:

I enjoy watching the more colorful golfers like Reed, Sergio, Mickelson, and Bryson.  They are exciting.

 

And you can still watch them play.  If you don’t like where/how you watch them play, that’s on them and the Saudis, not the PGA Tour.

[Archimedes65]

If anyone thinks the PGA Tour needs to cave to LIV, just spend a few minutes on the PGA Tour website and scroll down the schedule and look at great tournament after great tournament, at iconic courses, many with huge purses.  Look at the sponsor names.  Look at the multiple broadcast contracts/TV networks.  Then roll over to LIV and do the same.  The comparison is laughable.  Throw in the impact of a lack of OWR on the Majors and it’s just an unfair fight.  LIV can spend all they want trying to polish a turd, while the PGA Tour can just grow future stars to take their place playing on the best Tour in the world.

Edited May 15 by Archimedes65

[Archimedes65]

1 hour ago, freeze16172002 said:

Reed and Garcia play exciting golf? Colorful and unlikeable aren't synonyms. 

 

I dunno, I do miss guys spitting in cups and digging divots on the greens.  Oh and when was the last time we had a good berating of a tournament volunteer?!  Man, those were the days.

Edited May 15 by Archimedes65

[One Putter]

33 minutes ago, Archimedes65 said:

If anyone thinks the PGA Tour needs to cave to LIV, just spend a few minutes on the PGA Tour website and scroll down the schedule and look at great tournament after great tournament, at iconic courses, many with huge purses.  Look at the sponsor names.  Look at the multiple broadcast contracts/TV networks.  Then roll over to LIV and do the same.  The comparison is laughable.  Throw in the impact of a lack of OWR on the Majors and it’s just an unfair fight.  LIV can spend all they want trying to polish a turd, while the PGA Tour can just grow future stars to take their place playing on the best Tour in the world.

One of the major things that the Saudis overlooked is the value of PGA Tour venues, that's for sure. The arrogance with which they operate is not surprising and typical of people who are used to using intimidation tactics to get everything they want.

Edited May 15 by One Putter

[Golferpaul]

39 minutes ago, Archimedes65 said:

 

And you can still watch them play.  If you don’t like where/how you watch them play, that’s on them and the Saudis, not the PGA Tour.

I'm quite aware of where to watch golf and I don't need to blame anybody.

[CaymanS]

31 minutes ago, Archimedes65 said:

If anyone thinks the PGA Tour needs to cave to LIV, just spend a few minutes on the PGA Tour website and scroll down the schedule and look at great tournament after great tournament, at iconic courses, many with huge purses.  Look at the sponsor names.  Look at the multiple broadcast contracts/TV networks.  Then roll over to LIV and do the same.  The comparison is laughable.  Throw in the impact of a lack of OWR on the Majors and it’s just an unfair fight.  LIV can spend all they want trying to polish a turd, while the PGA Tour can just grow future stars to take their place playing on the best Tour in the world.

These are the things guys like Rahm gave up and now miss.  Playing LIV events is just like the senior tour, they are no longer in survival mode which brings out the best in people, but retirement mode where there is no longer anything at stake.  Just going through the motions.  It doesn't make for a good show IMO.

[Archimedes65]

Rory throws more negative shade on the deal process in his presser.  He seems to be a lone voice in the wind pushing hard for a deal.  The pundits keep talking about a schism among the players, but who else is really on his side in this debate, or at least, feels as strongly as he does?  Webb Simpson?  It seems like it’s him against everyone else.

[MrDC]

I think plenty of PGAT players want nothing to do with LIV players, they don't want them back, they don't want to be competing with a guy who has enough money to buy a small country, while they grind every week to make cuts.

They won't come out and say this of course but I think it's a safe assumption, and probably the #1 reason why there is no deal, and maybe never will be, because unification is the only reason besides bags of money for the PGAT to do it.

Edited May 16 by MrDC

[CaymanS]

35 minutes ago, Archimedes65 said:

Rory throws more negative shade on the deal process in his presser.  He seems to be a lone voice in the wind pushing hard for a deal.  The pundits keep talking about a schism among the players, but who else is really on his side in this debate, or at least, feels as strongly as he does?  Webb Simpson?  It seems like it’s him against everyone else.

The inequity is too massive to overcome.  Impossible to resolve.

[Archimedes65]

47 minutes ago, CaymanS said:

These are the things guys like Rahm gave up and now miss.  Playing LIV events is just like the senior tour, they are no longer in survival mode which brings out the best in people, but retirement mode where there is no longer anything at stake.  Just going through the motions.  It doesn't make for a good show IMO.

 

Except the Champions Tour actually has sponsors and a TV contract… 🙂

[betarhoalphadelta]

2 hours ago, TiScape said:

I also like watching all these guys play. Well except for Reed. To me his game is par for the course. (I’d much rather watch Rahm play than Reed) Like w/a lot of athletes it’s when they are off the course and start talking that they get “hard to be around”. Perfect example is Rahm’s PGA presser yesterday. Not often I wanna go thru the TV screen and laugh at someone and say “ur kidding me right?” bcs I just don’t allow myself to get that affected by that stuff… But gotta admit I felt that way yesterday after watching his presser. 😳

 

Yeah, I don't care about Reed, Sergio. I honestly don't like watching Rahm play. He's a very good golfer but his reactions to a missed putt make you think the ball slept with his mother or something. 

 

I do miss Hatton. He was a lot of fun. Bryson has always been interesting, in a highly functioning on the spectrum sort of way. I liked Poults. 

[Archimedes65]

1 hour ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

Yeah, I don't care about Reed, Sergio. I honestly don't like watching Rahm play. He's a very good golfer but his reactions to a missed putt make you think the ball slept with his mother or something. 

 

I do miss Hatton. He was a lot of fun. Bryson has always been interesting, in a highly functioning on the spectrum sort of way. I liked Poults. 

 

Waaaaaiiitt, you hate Ram’s reaction to putts but you miss Hatton?!  I am so glad that little hobbit is gone.  I got so tired of watching him gesticulate after every missed putt, as if he read it perfectly but the laws of physics suspended for the duration of his putt just to piss him off.  I do not miss him in the least.  Honestly, I don’t miss anyone the announcers referred to as ‘fiery’, which is really just a way of saying someone has a bit of an anger management problem.

 

Rahm I don’t miss much because I don’t care for his golf swing and he’s not much of a personality.  Great golfer for sure, but didn’t move the meter for me fan wise.

 

I miss DJ, both for his athletic swing and his caveman like one syllable word interviews, and I miss Joe Dirt a bit because when his putter got hot, it was something to watch.

[bcjim]

4 hours ago, Archimedes65 said:

Rory throws more negative shade on the deal process in his presser.  He seems to be a lone voice in the wind pushing hard for a deal.  The pundits keep talking about a schism among the players, but who else is really on his side in this debate, or at least, feels as strongly as he does?  Webb Simpson?  It seems like it’s him against everyone else.

Agree. Nobody else. The players,  via their 5-4 majority,  apparently don't want a deal,  or are playing hardball with Rummy. Good for them.  I think it's a bad idea for players to be involved in this but I'm going to wait and see.  It's possible they're doing the right thing here.