LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[Dutch1008]

1 hour ago, smashdn said:

Sell the teams/franchises, take in a percentage of what the owners of the teams take in.  Leave the management of the team, within the LIV framework, up to those that own them.

 

^That is my supposition.  Clearly that plan is fraught with problems.

 

The teams become like a football club at that point.  Make us much revenue as you like, or not, but field a squad within the framework of the rules.  If you cannot you lose and get relegated.  But that means shaking themselves free of the contracts.

 

Walk through the flow of funds here. It doesn't make any sense. 

 

Lets say some gonzo billionaire like Elon decides to buy a team for $100M. Specifically lets say he buys PIFs share of the HyFlyers...

Elon: -$75M

PIF: +$75M

 

The PIF recoups some money but is still massively in the hole from paying Phil $200+. Phil now actually has a paper mark on his 25% ownership. Congrats Phil, you can probably talk some bank into giving you a tax free loan against the "value" of your HyFlyers shares. 

 

Fast forward and lets say the HyFlyers actually win an event as a team. 

PIF: -$4M

Elon: +$3M

Phil: +1M

 

And here is where the problem lies. The $75M the PIF received from Elon, is now being recycled back to Elon and the players. Because there is no other revenue! It's just a giant circle jerk subsidized by the royal family and will continue to be so until the have sponsors and a broadcast deal that can cover the purses and a operating costs. 

[subrew]

Sam Horsefield makes it through final qualifying, and gets in The Open.

[Danielson]

2 hours ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Then what is the objective? There's got to be some type of return even if it's not monetary. 

 

I think it's all a big networking play. They want in on the PGA Tour to get at all the high dollar sponsors and companies involved with the PGA Tour. Or it's possible they've just miscalculated the desire for "different" pro golf to an insane degree.

[Archimedes65]

3 hours ago, subrew said:

 

I'm not all claiming either of these sponsors are major, but they have made a couple in roads this year.

 

You'll notice the leaderboard is now brought to you by Maserati, and Maserati commercials air during the show, and they have done dumb promo shorts with Poulter driving his Maserati courtesy car to the event with a teammate.  Maserati hole-in-one cars too.

 

They have also had "this hour of coverage brought to you by Progressive Insurance."  Lots of progressive commercials during other times too.

 

Easypost is a league-wide sponsor, and you'll see their logos on stuff, including some team gear.

 

I think the Saudi event had an actual title sponsor too, it was a Real Estate company.  "LIV Golf Presented by ROSHN" was the official name used for the event, or some such thing.  Which isn't much removed from a PGAT event sponsored by XYZ company.

 

PXG commercials have been pretty steady too, which is odd, since Bob Parson fell back on his rah rah I was a marine shtick when asked if he would ever sponsor a LIV player last year.    

 

 

What they need is a big mega-corp as a presenting sponsor.  I'm just totally making this up, but imagine someone like a General Motors.  Each of the events could have a different line of GM project.  The Texas event could be the GMC Sierra Houston Open or something stupid.  A New England event could be Cadillac.  Holden in Australia.  The Greater Detroit Open by Hummer. 

 

I personally don't care if they ever get a major sponsor, because I don't want to see more commercials.  And I don't want to see 5 minutes wasted on interviewing their CEO.  

 

Maserati sells about 25,000 cars.  Worldwide.  25,000.  How big can their ‘sponsorship’ of LIV be?

 

And Easypost is a small API company; again that deal can’t be more than a few million at most.

 

The rest are just broadcast advertisers, again not big dollars.  And I’ll bet that Progressive isn’t paying much for those spots, as they know the ratings stink and that LIV needs them more than they need LIV.  If they’re even remotely good at negotiating, which I’m sure their contracts folks are, they’re probably paying nominally for that ‘sponsorship’.

 

LIV needs eyeballs/ratings, to prove value to sponsors and to prove to broadcasters that they can drive ad revenue.  They don’t have that yet, irrespective of their marketing guy making up numbers that anyone can go check and discover are nonsense.

 

And the idea that they don’t need sponsors or commercial success is nonsense.  Regardless of whether one believes there is ulterior motivation at play, the PIF will not finance a money losing entity indefinitely.  They will shut it down if it continues to lose massive dollars over the long term, particularly if it isn’t developing an audience that might at least serve other ends.  My guess is they have a ten year investment horizon, at which point they either double down or cut and run.

[dcmidnight]

4 hours ago, subrew said:

I think the Saudi event had an actual title sponsor too, it was a Real Estate company.  "LIV Golf Presented by ROSHN" was the official name used for the event, or some such thing.  Which isn't much removed from a PGAT event sponsored by XYZ company.

 

Title sponsor? You cannot use ROSHN as some sort of example of how LIV has been successful in attracting sponsors, ROFL

 

ROSHN is a company founded and whole owned by the PIF - does that even count? Isnt that like when a league buys all its event tickets and gives them away for free - does that count as a sellout? You cant move money out of your giant pile of money, call it something else and pretend you found a sponsor. Its just you using your own money.

Edited Tuesday at 09:48 PM by dcmidnight

[Archimedes65]

Ahh, Sergio doing what Sergio does, berating R&A officials at qualifying for the Open Championship.  Stay classy Sergio!

[Cactus Jack]

5 hours ago, subrew said:

 

I'm not all claiming either of these sponsors are major, but they have made a couple in roads this year.

 

You'll notice the leaderboard is now brought to you by Maserati, and Maserati commercials air during the show, and they have done dumb promo shorts with Poulter driving his Maserati courtesy car to the event with a teammate.  Maserati hole-in-one cars too.

 

They have also had "this hour of coverage brought to you by Progressive Insurance."  Lots of progressive commercials during other times too.

 

Easypost is a league-wide sponsor, and you'll see their logos on stuff, including some team gear.

 

I think the Saudi event had an actual title sponsor too, it was a Real Estate company.  "LIV Golf Presented by ROSHN" was the official name used for the event, or some such thing.  Which isn't much removed from a PGAT event sponsored by XYZ company.

 

PXG commercials have been pretty steady too, which is odd, since Bob Parson fell back on his rah rah I was a marine shtick when asked if he would ever sponsor a LIV player last year.    

 

 

What they need is a big mega-corp as a presenting sponsor.  I'm just totally making this up, but imagine someone like a General Motors.  Each of the events could have a different line of GM project.  The Texas event could be the GMC Sierra Houston Open or something stupid.  A New England event could be Cadillac.  Holden in Australia.  The Greater Detroit Open by Hummer. 

 

I personally don't care if they ever get a major sponsor, because I don't want to see more commercials.  And I don't want to see 5 minutes wasted on interviewing their CEO.  

 

The DPWT just rolled out something interesting. The UFC did this years ago, to great commercial success. The fighters were initially upset as they had to unwind individual endorsements, but most benefited significantly more from a profit share arrangement. I'd love to see LIV think outside the box like this instead of replicating the typical PGAT walking billboard approach. 

 

[pingbling23]

2 hours ago, Archimedes65 said:

 

Maserati sells about 25,000 cars.  Worldwide.  25,000.  How big can their ‘sponsorship’ of LIV be?

 

And Easypost is a small API company; again that deal can’t be more than a few million at most.

 

The rest are just broadcast advertisers, again not big dollars.  And I’ll bet that Progressive isn’t paying much for those spots, as they know the ratings stink and that LIV needs them more than they need LIV.  If they’re even remotely good at negotiating, which I’m sure their contracts folks are, they’re probably paying nominally for that ‘sponsorship’.

 

LIV needs eyeballs/ratings, to prove value to sponsors and to prove to broadcasters that they can drive ad revenue.  They don’t have that yet, irrespective of their marketing guy making up numbers that anyone can go check and discover are nonsense.

 

And the idea that they don’t need sponsors or commercial success is nonsense.  Regardless of whether one believes there is ulterior motivation at play, the PIF will not finance a money losing entity indefinitely.  They will shut it down if it continues to lose massive dollars over the long term, particularly if it isn’t developing an audience that might at least serve other ends.  My guess is they have a ten year investment horizon, at which point they either double down or cut and run.

Yeah, but their owner Stellantis sells a few more then that.

[bcjim]

4 hours ago, subrew said:

Sam Horsefield makes it through final qualifying, and gets in The Open.

Who?

[Archimedes65]

1 hour ago, pingbling23 said:

Yeah, but their owner Stellantis sells a few more then that.

 

But Stellantis isn’t the sponsor and isn’t getting any advertising out of the deal.  The deal is with Maserati, which is like having a social media sponsorship deal with MySpace. 

[Archimedes65]

1 hour ago, Cactus Jack said:

 

The DPWT just rolled out something interesting. The UFC did this years ago, to great commercial success. The fighters were initially upset as they had to unwind individual endorsements, but most benefited significantly more from a profit share arrangement. I'd love to see LIV think outside the box like this instead of replicating the typical PGAT walking billboard approach. 

 

 

But the DPWT has real TV contracts and millions of fans.  That’s why they’re able to do a deal like this; the brand actually gets exposure.  Who’s gonna become the official clothing sponsor of LIV?  Old Navy?

[BlackDiamondPar5]

The entitled baby has another outburst 🤣

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/sergio-garcia-gets-into-heated-exchange-with-rules-official-after-slow-play-warning-british-open-qualifier-video

 

[Archimedes65]

45 minutes ago, bcjim said:

Who?

 

Won a few Euro tour events a few years back.  Eight starts in majors, missed the cut six times.

[subrew]

1 hour ago, bcjim said:

Who?

 

www.google.com

 

Or if you watched LIV, you would know.

 

Looks like Abe Ancer made it through final qualifying too.

[Cactus Jack]

2 hours ago, bcjim said:

Who?

 

LOL.

 

Post daily in a LIV thread, yet know nothing about LIV. 

 

Makes sense.  

Edited Wednesday at 03:55 AM by Cactus Jack

[cdnglf]

3 hours ago, Archimedes65 said:

 

But the DPWT has real TV contracts and millions of fans.  That’s why they’re able to do a deal like this; the brand actually gets exposure.  Who’s gonna become the official clothing sponsor of LIV?  Old Navy?

 

 

[bekgolf]

Just now, cdnglf said:

 

 

 

Lol.  I bought some golf related clothing for a great price but they ended up having that crazy logo.  On one of the shirts the rubberized shark melted in the dryer and got all over the rest of the clothes.  Never again.

[tomjas]

6 hours ago, Cactus Jack said:

 

The DPWT just rolled out something interesting. The UFC did this years ago, to great commercial success. The fighters were initially upset as they had to unwind individual endorsements, but most benefited significantly more from a profit share arrangement. I'd love to see LIV think outside the box like this instead of replicating the typical PGAT walking billboard approach. 

 

The overwhelming majority of UFC fighters are massively underpaid 

[notsohard]

14 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

 

Rory can call his team

The Chokers 🤣

 

 

 

 

 

Does that mean Akshay gets a gig?........😁

[ashortgame]

9 hours ago, Archimedes65 said:

Ahh, Sergio doing what Sergio does, berating R&A officials at qualifying for the Open Championship.  Stay classy Sergio!

Sergio is not a slow player. I'd be pissed off too.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

2 hours ago, ashortgame said:

Sergio is not a slow player. I'd be pissed off too.

Well apparently he was on that day!  Now Sergio does what he does best...

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 11:08 AM by BlackDiamondPar5

[smashdn]

8 hours ago, cdnglf said:

 

 

 

Just bought several polos and a 1/4 zip.  I have a few polos already and the M75 microlux pants are nice.

[Danielson]

20 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

Just bought several polos and a 1/4 zip.  I have a few polos already and the M75 microlux pants are nice.

 

It's a phenomenal logo, credit where it's due.

[smashdn]

1 minute ago, Danielson said:

 

It's a phenomenal logo, credit where it's due.

 

Ehh, I don't care for the logo to be honest.  I didn't buy them for the logo as it is typically on the back between the shoulders in the ones I buy.  I like the fabric and the print and in this case the cost of them.

 

The pants I have have held up really well and I like the cut of them.  Somewhere between a classic fitting trouser and the more modern narrow leg but without being tight to my calves.  I have Mickelson calves.  One pair of some other brand of pants I bought will get stuck on my calves and every time I sit in a cart or squat to read a putt they get stuck and I end up with high-waters with the thighs all bloused out.  Looks like I am about to tame a lion or some crap like that.  Online ordering has its perils.

[Puttersaurus Rex]

“The vitriol and hatred was just disgusting, to be quite honest with you, considering what these guys have done for the game of golf, how they have carried the game of golf, and the institutions they represented."

 

“It was disgusting.” - Greg Norman

 

 

Gaslight much?  He just keeps digging himself into a bigger sand trap every time he opens his mouth.  He knew what he was getting into, and now he is playing as a victim.

[smashdn]

1 minute ago, Puttersaurus Rex said:

“The vitriol and hatred was just disgusting, to be quite honest with you, considering what these guys have done for the game of golf, how they have carried the game of golf, and the institutions they represented."

 

“It was disgusting.” - Greg Norman

 

 

Gaslight much?  He just keeps digging himself into a bigger sand trap every time he opens his mouth.  He knew what he was getting into, and now he is playing as a victim.

 

 

Context?  Can you at least give us a link or a hint?

[idrive]

4 minutes ago, Puttersaurus Rex said:

 considering what these guys have done for the game of golf,

 

Greg should have said, "considering these guys have torn the professional golf world apart..."

[Puttersaurus Rex]

4 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

 

Context?  Can you at least give us a link or a hint?

Front page of GolfWRX (via Bloomberg):

 

https://www.golfwrx.com/742333/the-vitriol-and-hatred-was-just-disgusting-greg-norman-lashes-out-at-liv-critics/?utm_source=Front&utm_medium=Featured_Latest&utm_campaign=GolfWRX_OnSite&utm_content=unused

Edited Wednesday at 01:04 PM by Puttersaurus Rex

[BlackDiamondPar5]

2 minutes ago, Puttersaurus Rex said:

Front page of GolfWRX (via Bloomberg):

 

https://www.golfwrx.com/742333/the-vitriol-and-hatred-was-just-disgusting-greg-norman-lashes-out-at-liv-critics/?utm_source=Front&utm_medium=Featured_Latest&utm_campaign=GolfWRX_OnSite&utm_content=unused

They're always playing the victim. It's about the only thing Greg and the LIV boys are doing right🤣

 

Maybe some day PIF will realize if they want any acceptance or validation they will need significant change . Getting rid of Norman should be a top priority. 

 

[bscinstnct]

18 minutes ago, Puttersaurus Rex said:

“The vitriol and hatred was just disgusting, to be quite honest with you, considering what these guys have done for the game of golf, how they have carried the game of golf, and the institutions they represented."

 

“It was disgusting.” - Greg Norman

 

 

Gaslight much?  He just keeps digging himself into a bigger sand trap every time he opens his mouth.  He knew what he was getting into, and now he is playing as a victim.

 

His anger is understandable

 

Has their ever been a less successful CEO in global business history?

 

A multibillion 💵 burn with barely any revenue in 3 years?

 

Wut happened the Adidas buying the Cleeks for a Billion 💰?

 

The best is the LIV claim that they are bringing the younger fans into golf

 

Our average fan is in their 40s they say. 
 

But the pga tour has 10x the fans under 40 that LIV has

 

LIV just doesn’t have the actual 70% of actual fans of pro golf that are, on average, older lol

 

LIV fans are under 50, mostly under 30 I speculate, because those are the only people who can tolerate mumble rap on the tee 🤣

Edited Wednesday at 01:17 PM by bscinstnct