2023 Hilton Grand Vacations Tournament of Champions (Jan 19 - 22)

[capking]

84 for Ariya

[Stooch]

1 minute ago, capking said:

84 for Ariya

Yep, it's getting ugly.  

[Stooch]

The leader after rd 1 of the LPGA tournament of Champions, is the TaylorMade marketing department lol

[18majors]

4 minutes ago, Stooch said:

The leader after rd 1 of the LPGA tournament of Champions, is the TaylorMade marketing department lol

 

The loser is TM sales department, if they don't have enough inventory!

[subrew]

49 minutes ago, Stooch said:

The leader after rd 1 of the LPGA tournament of Champions, is the TaylorMade marketing department lol

 

Seriously.  Brooke, Nelly, Charley.

[subrew]

Hope we get to see a full WITB from Brooke and Nelly, to see where the non TM clubs have settled into the mix.

[Stooch]

5 minutes ago, subrew said:

Hope we get to see a full WITB from Brooke and Nelly, to see where the non TM clubs have settled into the mix.

 

There's one for Brooke in the Brooke switches to TalorMade thread.  It lists her current clubs with what she played with Ping and there might be one for Nelly in the Nelly no longer with Titleist thread.

[Seamus_McDuff]

1 hour ago, subrew said:

Hope we get to see a full WITB from Brooke and Nelly, to see where the non TM clubs have settled into the mix.

This release from Taylormade initially only listed 13 clubs. It’s now 14. 
 

https://www.taylormadegolf.com/clubhouse/471721-from-ball-to-all-brooke-henderson-becomes-full-member-of-team-taylormade.html?lang=en_US

 

Nelly’s is still 11. 
 

https://www.taylormadegolf.com/clubhouse/470733-lpga-star-nelly-korda-joins-team-taylormade.html?lang=en_US

[Titleist_PT23]

I'm not sure why everyone thinks all equipment changes are seamless.  Yeah, sure they hit the clubs but it wouldn't be the first time someone thought everything is great with the contract value in front of them only to find out otherwise over the longer term in tournament play.

 

And this isn't to say either of them are going to have problems.  It's just understanding a reasonable range of outcomes.  Could say the same thing about the number of times Lydia won last year or her HOF points chase.  Some could see it before it happened (or at least that it was not that farfetched).

 

It could also be true that TM's gear fits both of these players better.  Had both been playing TM gear since they got on tour, they'd each have won the Grand Slam and already be qualified for the HOF.  Or, even if they have a career year in 2023, had they stuck with their 2022 gear it would have been even better (maybe they made other changes in practice, mental aspect, etc that are more responsible for the performance and with no equipment change Nelly/Brooke win all of the tournaments in 2023).  Neither can be proven or disproven.

 

Anyways, good to see both are off to a nice start.  It would be great to see 3-5 of these top rung players all clicking at the same time (i.e. multiple players with 3x win including major in the same season).

[ChronicSlicer]

2 hours ago, 18majors said:

 

The loser is TM sales department, if they don't have enough inventory!

No worries, most golfers think LPGA players play "girls" clubs. It's also safe to say 75% of Nelly and Brooke's fans are men. No man wants to play "girls" clubs. 

[Stooch]

35 minutes ago, agolf1 said:

I'm not sure why everyone thinks all equipment changes are seamless.  Yeah, sure they hit the clubs but it wouldn't be the first time someone thought everything is great with the contract value in front of them only to find out otherwise over the longer term in tournament play.

 

And this isn't to say either of them are going to have problems.  It's just understanding a reasonable range of outcomes.  Could say the same thing about the number of times Lydia won last year or her HOF points chase.  Some could see it before it happened (or at least that it was not that farfetched).

 

It could also be true that TM's gear fits both of these players better.  Had both been playing TM gear since they got on tour, they'd each have won the Grand Slam and already be qualified for the HOF.  Or, even if they have a career year in 2023, had they stuck with their 2022 gear it would have been even better (maybe they made other changes in practice, mental aspect, etc that are more responsible for the performance and with no equipment change Nelly/Brooke win all of the tournaments in 2023).  Neither can be proven or disproven.

 

Anyways, good to see both are off to a nice start.  It would be great to see 3-5 of these top rung players all clicking at the same time (i.e. multiple players with 3x win including major in the same season).

 

I would say due to the ridiculous generosity of the fairways, an equipment change is much easier on this tour.  Nelly and Brooke are both top tier iron players and would probably pepper greens from the fairway with any club.  The proximity over the long haul is what will be telling.  Their fairways hit and green in reg. will probably be as good as ever.  If the proximity is bad their putts per round and putts per GIR will be obnoxious.  I think will have to judge both by wins, both will want two but expect one.  If neither win's, they won't care about stats and top 10's and probably won't consider their equipment change a success.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Stooch

[Stooch]

6 minutes ago, ChronicSlicer said:

No worries, most golfers think LPGA players play "girls" clubs. It's also safe to say 75% of Nelly and Brooke's fans are men. No man wants to play "girls" clubs. 

 

I have a reply for your last sentence. but it's early int the season, so let's not get me banned. 😂

[ChronicSlicer]

13 minutes ago, Stooch said:

 

I have a reply for your last sentence. but it's early int the season, so let's not get me banned. 😂

Don't be scared bud, let it out.

[Titleist_PT23]

44 minutes ago, Stooch said:

...

I think will have to judge both by wins, both will want two but expect one.  If neither win's, they won't care about stats and top 10's and probably won't consider their equipment change a success.

I agree, high finishes add to the mosaic, provided the requisite wins are there.  At their level, I would rather win 3x and miss the cut 20+x times per year than finish 2nd in every tournament.

 

Just curious, do you think Brooke will double her output from where she's at now to the end (whenever that is)?  I.e. 27 pts yea or nay?  Given the ups and downs we see (and potential life changes for a woman), it is hard to know for sure.  More just wondering some assessment of where she's at, goals, etc.

[Stooch]

9 minutes ago, agolf1 said:

I agree, high finishes add to the mosaic, provided the requisite wins are there.  At their level, I would rather win 3x and miss the cut 20+x times per year than finish 2nd in every tournament.

 

Just curious, do you think Brooke will double her output from where she's at now to the end (whenever that is)?  I.e. 27 pts yea or nay?  Given the ups and downs we see (and potential life changes for a woman), it is hard to know for sure.  More just wondering some assessment of where she's at, goals, etc.

 

I said a few years back in some thread that I don't think any of the players will hit 27 points but looks like Lydia is gonna make it.  I said this because I thought the competition was such, it would be tough for any player to maintain that type of run during a career.

 

With Brooke I honestly feel she should be at 16-17 win with another Major but her putting is just awful.  Handful of events a year she has the hot putter and her win's look easy most of the time.  She stubs her toe too often with a 71 because of the putter when everyone else is shooting 67's and usually there's one bad putting round each week and she finishes just outside of that top group.  So, to answer your original question, I'm honestly undecided on Brooke.  I will say she's 20 points easy with lots of upside.  I think if Brooke can find a way to shave a 1-2 putts per round off her total for a season or more that would dramatically change my thinking.  I think the next 5 years will be important for her, if she keep up her career trend of play and find a 4 win season with a Major in those years then I think she makes it.

[JungleJimbo]

On 1/11/2023 at 8:06 PM, Argonne69 said:

Race to the CME Globe: 500 Points

 

Format: 72 holes

 

Purse: $1,500,000

 

Location: Lake Nona Golf and Country Club, Orlando, FL

 

Par: 72

 

Yardage: 6,617 yds

 

History: This is the 5th year for the event. In 2022, Danielle Kang avenged a 2021 playoff loss, shooting -16 overall for a three-stroke win over Brooke Henderson.

 

Coverage:

January 19: The Golf Channel 12:00 pm - 3:00 pm (ET)

January 20: The Golf Channel 12:00 pm - 3:00 pm (ET)

January 21: The Golf Channel 12:00 pm - 3:00 pm (ET)

January 22: NBC 2:00 pm - 5:00 pm (ET)

 

Belated question ... what's the entry criteria for this TOC?

i.e. I don't recall Matilda Castren winning in 2022 (wasn't her best finish = T2 in the Dow Great Lakes Bay invitational... partnering with Kelly Tan)

 

https://www.lpga.com/players/matilda-castren/99270/bio

 

i.e. If so... then I'm guessing entry criteria = qualifying for the season-ending CME Globe = means players also win entry into this TOC field?

 

Edited January 20, 2023 by JungleJimbo

[Stooch]

4 minutes ago, JungleJimbo said:

Belated question ... what's the entry criteria for this TOC?

i.e. I don't recall Matilda Castren winning in 2022 (wasn't her best finish = T2 in the Dow Great Lakes Bay invitational... partnering with Kelly Tan)

 

i.e. If so... then I'm guessing entry criteria = qualifying for the season-ending CME Globe = means players also win entry into this TOC field?

 

 

you get 2 year exemption she won in 2021.

[Stooch]

Weir in the lead on the Champions Tour, Ollie gonna get some screen time this week lol.

[JungleJimbo]

5 hours ago, Stooch said:

The leader after rd 1 of the LPGA tournament of Champions, is the TaylorMade marketing department lol

 

 

 

 

Edited January 20, 2023 by JungleJimbo

[JungleJimbo]

On 1/18/2023 at 11:17 AM, ChronicSlicer said:

Alfonso Ribeiro and DK...how many times we gonna see "the Carlton" in one day?

 

 

[capking]

31 minutes ago, JungleJimbo said:

 

 

It’s a tough look for him still doing that dance, maybe they can get Henry Winkler in next year to give some thumbs up.

[Titleist_PT23]

40 minutes ago, Stooch said:

 

I said a few years back in some thread that I don't think any of the players will hit 27 points but looks like Lydia is gonna make it.  I said this because I thought the competition was such, it would be tough for any player to maintain that type of run during a career.

 

With Brooke I honestly feel she should be at 16-17 win with another Major but her putting is just awful.  Handful of events a year she has the hot putter and her win's look easy most of the time.  She stubs her toe too often with a 71 because of the putter when everyone else is shooting 67's and usually there's one bad putting round each week and she finishes just outside of that top group.  So, to answer your original question, I'm honestly undecided on Brooke.  I will say she's 20 points easy with lots of upside.  I think if Brooke can find a way to shave a 1-2 putts per round off her total for a season or more that would dramatically change my thinking.  I think the next 5 years will be important for her, if she keep up her career trend of play and find a 4 win season with a Major in those years then I think she makes it.

Yeah, depending on how far back a "few" is, Lydia would have looked dead and JYK probably hadn't racked up enough points for serious consideration.

 

Back up to middle of last year, Lydia was at 21 pts, and at the time a reasonable consensus was probably one win a year (competition, wild driver, etc).  Six more wins was probably a maybe, with more downside than upside.  What was not accounted for is that she's not a normal player (even among the very very good) and she closed the gap with a big year (2 more wins and 2 more points from the Vare/POY kickers).

 

At 14 pts, I feel Brooke is similar to the above.  2x wins for 6+ seasons?  Certainly possible but I'd probably take the under if you put a gun to my head (harder than 1x win for 6 years).  But I wouldn't bet a lot on this thing either way at even money.  One big season (majors and/or award kickers) will change the perspective/calculus a lot.  Conversely, stalling out for 12 - 24 months will do the same (albeit in the opposite direction).

 

What do you think about Nelly at 10 pts?  She's only a year younger than Brooke.  Granted, Nelly's best season is better, but it's only been done once.  My guess is the vast majority of people will take Nelly to have the better cumulative next 3-5 years.  I'm not qualified enough to tell if that is really true though.  Obviously they are both very very good; is the next gear for one of them clearly putting the other in the rearview mirror / eating dust?

[Stooch]

32 minutes ago, agolf1 said:

Yeah, depending on how far back a "few" is, Lydia would have looked dead and JYK probably hadn't racked up enough points for serious consideration.

 

Back up to middle of last year, Lydia was at 21 pts, and at the time a reasonable consensus was probably one win a year (competition, wild driver, etc).  Six more wins was probably a maybe, with more downside than upside.  What was not accounted for is that she's not a normal player (even among the very very good) and she closed the gap with a big year (2 more wins and 2 more points from the Vare/POY kickers).

 

At 14 pts, I feel Brooke is similar to the above.  2x wins for 6+ seasons?  Certainly possible but I'd probably take the under if you put a gun to my head (harder than 1x win for 6 years).  But I wouldn't bet a lot on this thing either way at even money.  One big season (majors and/or award kickers) will change the perspective/calculus a lot.  Conversely, stalling out for 12 - 24 months will do the same (albeit in the opposite direction).

 

What do you think about Nelly at 10 pts?  She's only a year younger than Brooke.  Granted, Nelly's best season is better, but it's only been done once.  My guess is the vast majority of people will take Nelly to have the better cumulative next 3-5 years.  I'm not qualified enough to tell if that is really true though.  Obviously they are both very very good; is the next gear for one of them clearly putting the other in the rearview mirror / eating dust?

 

Nelly was actually a slow starter, which kinda has her win total lower than I think it should be.  Gives her less margin for error going forward but if she executes, she can go on a run.  Like you mentioned Lydia did it last year to put her over the top (well almost) and who else do we think at this point has a shot Nelly, Brooke, Jin Young or Min Jee?  All four IMO would need a big season before they are 30 to get into it.  In today game if you have a 4 win season with a Major, you snag the player of the year bonus and probably be in play for scoring average.  I think though by 30 you need around 22 points.  That's still 5 wins after 30 and sure if you have this shot you have the pedigree to do it, but it's starts getting tough and the players keep getting younger and better and better.  I want to add In Gee in those with a shot, but she just doesn't win enough regular tour events and Lexi I doubt will ever get over her demons.

[Lobby]

Finally!!!

 

the ladies are playing again!

[Titleist_PT23]

4 hours ago, Stooch said:

 

Nelly was actually a slow starter, which kinda has her win total lower than I think it should be.  Gives her less margin for error going forward but if she executes, she can go on a run.  Like you mentioned Lydia did it last year to put her over the top (well almost) and who else do we think at this point has a shot Nelly, Brooke, Jin Young or Min Jee?  All four IMO would need a big season before they are 30 to get into it.  In today game if you have a 4 win season with a Major, you snag the player of the year bonus and probably be in play for scoring average.  I think though by 30 you need around 22 points.  That's still 5 wins after 30 and sure if you have this shot you have the pedigree to do it, but it's starts getting tough and the players keep getting younger and better and better.  I want to add In Gee in those with a shot, but she just doesn't win enough regular tour events and Lexi I doubt will ever get over her demons.

 

Seems like the "smart" people aren't dumb enough to make any predictions here🤣.  Of the ones you listed, JYK is just too hard to call with injury.  Minjee is probably my favourite of the bunch, but like Lexi I think the only chance she has of getting 27 pts is at Topgolf.  But hey, maybe she's figured it out and someone will reply to this post a few years down the road!

 

I like In Gee too, but winning all four (or is it all five?) would probably be a more realistic goal.

 

 

[Yellow Jacket]

Why does this tournament that kicks off the season take place a month before the next one, which happens to be on the other side of the world? Is the scheduling really that incompetent?

[Argonne69]

'Liked Morgan's comment on how the course has teeth. It's nice to see an event that isn't a total birdiefest. Jessica won it two years ago with a score of -24, but it wasn't played at Lake Nona. Some of those greens shed balls like water off a duck's back.

 

[Stooch]

6 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

'Liked Morgan's comment on how the course has teeth. It's nice to see an event that isn't a total birdiefest. Jessica won it two years ago with a score of -24, but it wasn't played at Lake Nona. Some of those greens shed balls like water off a duck's back.

 

 

I thought the same yesterday, only 17 or a bit over 50% players finished under par and these are good players.  When par or worse is held by some 40% of the field it will probably be a good event.

[Yuck]

20 hours ago, Stooch said:

Yeah, the wedge from 60 and 80 yards on 14 were telling, that's where you'd most likely see any problems.

I think Nelly is still playing the Vokey Lob wedge, along with her Scotty Putter (With Black Tape over the cavity “Dots”).  She may also still have the Ping hybrid in the bag.

[Bad9]

Quite the rd 2 start for Brooke