2023 Course Conditions- Phoenix Area

[Bonneville85308]

On 8/13/2023 at 5:02 PM, AZ_JHWK said:

The Boulders North today. Any time I see bentgrass greens in AZ, I'm in for a great day...and these were beautiful. Soft and receptive and a great speed. This course was the best I've played condition-wise all summer. Was it perfect? No. But what course is in the summer. They actually had a very heathy cut of rough throughout and it made for some fun around the greens. I was a little worried as the practice green was very slow and had some invasive weedy grass all over. 

 

An employee there said the South course was renovating tee boxes, especially the Par 3's. And I say Bravo to that. He said the North course is considered the members course and the South is for guests normally. 

 

Is the South closed for the renovation work with all public play on the North, or were you a guest of a member? I've played the South and may try to get out there soon if they are putting the public on the North right now due to work on the South.

[puttnforthe8]

2 minutes ago, Bonneville85308 said:

 

Is the South closed for the renovation work with all public play on the North, or were you a guest of a member? I've played the South and may try to get out there soon if they are putting the public on the North right now due to work on the South.

@Bonneville85308 Public play is on the North for now.

[buu]

Thanks!

[AZ_JHWK]

8 hours ago, Bonneville85308 said:

 

Is the South closed for the renovation work with all public play on the North, or were you a guest of a member? I've played the South and may try to get out there soon if they are putting the public on the North right now due to work on the South.

The guy I talked to said they were hitting off of mats on the par 3's on the South. That leads me to believe that some members are playing there. I didn't have a choice anyway. It was my first time at The Boulders and had heard the better views were on the South. I will definitely go back next summer and try to get on the South. I noticed the rates double what I paid ($89) in September. They also add a 10% water tax too. 

[soregongolfer]

I played Bolders North last Thursday.  I saw a schedule for the month, and I thought I had read the South course had punched their greens and that's why I had been scheduled to play the North.  I may remember that incorrectly though.  

[SilverBullets]

14 hours ago, AZ_JHWK said:

The guy I talked to said they were hitting off of mats on the par 3's on the South. That leads me to believe that some members are playing there. I didn't have a choice anyway. It was my first time at The Boulders and had heard the better views were on the South. I will definitely go back next summer and try to get on the South. I noticed the rates double what I paid ($89) in September. They also add a 10% water tax too. 

The Boulders courses are fine but in my opinion they aren't on par with the courses in their price bracket. They also aren't as pretty as a number of other courses in the area.  If you're looking for views, both WeKoPa courses are prettier, the back 9 at The Phoenician provides a lot better views, I'd consider both Troon Courses to be better settings.  I never know how to describe The Boulders. I like playing them but at the same time I don't think they live up to what they think they are/are trying to be

[hackeraz]

Anyone able to comment on TPC Champions lately? Headed out this weekend. 

 

Also, is it normal that rates are already shooting back up in September? Have some friends coming out around the 12th and was a bit stunned by what I'm already seeing considering September is far from "in season". May be time to sell the clubs and just buy a couple more pairs of skis. 

[Olson12]

2 hours ago, hackeraz said:

Anyone able to comment on TPC Champions lately? Headed out this weekend. 

 

Also, is it normal that rates are already shooting back up in September? Have some friends coming out around the 12th and was a bit stunned by what I'm already seeing considering September is far from "in season". May be time to sell the clubs and just buy a couple more pairs of skis. 

Did you book letting them know youre an AZ resident.  Their walking rate for residents is usually less than 1/2 of normal rate. 

[Bonneville85308]

Troon North-Pinnacle this morning, first time for me. I had anticipated that the course would be pretty soaked from irrigation with mudballs and no roll, but that wasn't the case at all. It was actually dry and the ball was rolling decently, that alone was a bonus. Greens were interesting. Very fast to putt, but approach shots landed softly, chips/pitches would check up quickly and not roll out much. On the front nine, we were making footprints in them (in the grass, not in the dew) just from walking on them. They were completely pock marked from previously repaired ball marks, but didn't really affect the roll. Everything else was in top notch condition, though I wasn't in any greenside bunkers. I thought the layout was superb, probably in my personal top 4 in AZ. Too bad a lot of the housing, while attractive and way beyond my means, feels super close to many of the holes.  I played the copper tees at about 5,800 yards which worked out well for me, all par 4's were reachable in regulation, I was hitting the ball fairly well, made some unexpected putts, and ended up with an even-par 71 including 3 birdies on the back, so I left very happy.

 

$106+tax which was the lowest price I've seen this summer at Troon North for a morning tee time. Range is closed for maintenance this week, but they gave notice of this when I made the tee time. Had a good random pairing with a twosome and finished in a little over 3 hours. 

 

[Bonneville85308]

Decided to go to the other end of the course spectrum after the early AM Troon North round and knocked off another course from the never-played list with a late morning round at Silverado. Greens were in good condition and a typical slower speed for this caliber of course. Fairways, rough, and tees were better than many other lower end courses right now. Some bare spots, burnt spots, etc. but nothing major. Back nine seemed to be in better condition than the front. I was in one greenside bunker that had a thin layer of decent sand over hardpan, and a fairway bunker that was crusty hardpan.

 

Bizzaro cartball routing with long rides and backtracking/bypassing between holes on the back nine. The whole thing was apparently designed to fill in a stormwater management area, so the course architecture isn't exactly a selling point. Some really goofy lines of play out there like off #10 tee. However, course played extremely easy, as confirmed by the low slope and rating, easier than even most of the original pancake-flat Sun City layouts in my opinion. 

 

Flew through the front nine solo and ran into some groups on the back nine, finished in about 3 hours total. ~$45 was fair for the location and conditions, but not something I'd ever play again though. Easily one of the worst layouts in AZ. Afterwards I checked out the "new" 2nd Swing store on Talking Stick Way as I had only ever been to the old location off Raintree. Holy crap, do they have a lot of clubs in that place. 

 

 

 

 

[AZ_JHWK]

6 minutes ago, Bonneville85308 said:

 

 

Bizzaro cartball routing with long rides and backtracking/bypassing between holes on the back nine. The whole thing was apparently designed to fill in a stormwater management area, so the course architecture isn't exactly a selling point. Some really goofy lines of play out there like off #10 tee. However, course played extremely easy, as confirmed by the low slope and rating, easier than even most of the original pancake-flat Sun City layouts in my opinion. 

 

 

I played it a few years back and agree with your assessment. We played on a weekend morning and there is a walking path that kind of winds through it. I just thought it was odd to see people riding bikes and walking dogs with golf balls flying nearby. 

[soregongolfer]

I played Pinnacle on Wednesday.  I loved it!  I'm an official fan boy of the Troon North property.  

[hackeraz]

23 hours ago, Olson12 said:

Did you book letting them know youre an AZ resident.  Their walking rate for residents is usually less than 1/2 of normal rate. 

Oh no issues with this weekend's time at TPC. Comment was more about looking at GolfNow rates mid September. 

[Bonneville85308]

Ocotillo early this morning, Gold & Blue nines, first time for me. "Florida golf in Arizona" as many say. I actually thought the water was pretty easy to avoid unless you completely topped a shot or hit drives that went further sideways than forward. Fairways and rough had a plush grass coverage, some very small burnt spots, but were pretty soaked with little roll and some mudballs so the course played long. Greens were on the slower side of average but firm, good condition with no burnt areas I could see. They had a shaggy appearance. Greenside bunkers were average. I didn't think the layout was offensive, just kinda repetitive on the par 4s, especially with how long/soft it was playing. I don't think it had any interesting/challenging short par 4's either. I'd maybe be interested in trying it again if it were playing firmer but otherwise not something I'm going to drive across the valley to play again.

 

Played with two fellow rabbits and finished in less than 3 hours. $59 AZ resident rate, range balls included.

 

 

 

 

 

[Bonneville85308]

After Ocotillo, I went over to check out Springfield, an "executive" length retirement community course at ~4,200 yards from the tips. 7 par 4's and the rest 3's. Supposedly this was designed by Gary Panks but it almost feels like the front and back nines were designed by two different people. Front nine is pretty much flat and featureless, some of the most boring holes I've played in quite a while. The back nine holes involved some more earth moving than the front but aren't really great either. My standard for good exec length courses in the area is the ones at Sun City West; Springfield falls way short of those courses. The majority of the par 3's play around the same yardage and there is no short "wedge length" par 3. This is a really easy course even for a short one and would be a good place for a beginner.

 

Course conditions weren't good. The greens apparently have had issues this summer; major burnt out/bare areas, some had portable sprinklers running on them. Fairways were about what you'd expect at most lower end courses right now. Many of the back tee boxes were crowned and the grass was either really chewed up or burnt out. I get the impression that their irrigation system is probably on its last legs. Bunker sand worse than average. $29+ tax on a weekday was overpriced for what it is. At least it was empty and I flew around in about an hour and a half.

 

[puttnforthe8]

4 hours ago, Bonneville85308 said:

After Ocotillo, I went over to check out Springfield, an "executive" length retirement community course at ~4,200 yards from the tips. 7 par 4's and the rest 3's. Supposedly this was designed by Gary Panks but it almost feels like the front and back nines were designed by two different people. Front nine is pretty much flat and featureless, some of the most boring holes I've played in quite a while. The back nine holes involved some more earth moving than the front but aren't really great either. My standard for good exec length courses in the area is the ones at Sun City West; Springfield falls way short of those courses. The majority of the par 3's play around the same yardage and there is no short "wedge length" par 3. This is a really easy course even for a short one and would be a good place for a beginner.

 

Course conditions weren't good. The greens apparently have had issues this summer; major burnt out/bare areas, some had portable sprinklers running on them. Fairways were about what you'd expect at most lower end courses right now. Many of the back tee boxes were crowned and the grass was either really chewed up or burnt out. I get the impression that their irrigation system is probably on its last legs. Bunker sand worse than average. $29+ tax on a weekday was overpriced for what it is. At least it was empty and I flew around in about an hour and a half.

 

 

Bummer - I wish you has dropped a note you were heading this way - There are two other courses (short) far better - Oakwood and Ironwood.  Ironwood is a short course always in great shape.  OW has 3 nines that are decent for a shorty.

[Bonneville85308]

Bear Creek (Bear course) early this morning. Fairways, rough, tees, bunkers all in pretty good shape. Everything was dry and the ball was rolling. Greens looked like they were a few weeks post-aeration so they were slow. I generally liked the course layout, sort of an Aguila-lite Gary Panks design that isn't particularly difficult but kept me interested.

 

My only complaint was that there was absolutely zero drinking water out on the course or around the outside of the clubhouse. I had gone through the 64oz I had brought by #12 and was getting very thirsty. No jugs, no fountains, no vending machines, no bathroom sinks, no garden hoses, no bottled water provided in the cart coolers, nothing. There was an unused ice machine inside the clubhouse that wasn't plugged in, and a small trickling drinking fountain next to the bathroom in the restaurant that I found after the round. There was also a bev cart girl who just drove past our group several times without stopping or acknowledging us, you'd think the course's no-water strategy would involve having the cart girl push overpriced water bottles on the customers, but I guess not.

 

Otherwise a fair deal for $48+ tax, had a good pairing and played in about 3:50. 

[chisag]

9 minutes ago, Bonneville85308 said:

My only complaint was that there was absolutely zero drinking water out on the course or around the outside of the clubhouse. I had gone through the 64oz I had brought by #12 and was getting very thirsty. No jugs, no fountains, no vending machines, no bathroom sinks, no garden hoses, no bottled water provided in the cart coolers, nothing. There was an unused ice machine inside the clubhouse that wasn't plugged in, and a small trickling drinking fountain next to the bathroom in the restaurant that I found after the round. There was also a bev cart girl who just drove past our group several times without stopping or acknowledging us, you'd think the course's no-water strategy would involve having the cart girl push overpriced water bottles on the customers, but I guess not.

 

 

... I imagine they have a lawyer on staff. 🙄 Record heat and no water is a disaster just waiting to happen. 

[Bonneville85308]

Troon North Monument early this morning. Apparently it just re-opened from a maintenance closure. Greens didn't have all of the pock-marking that Pinnacle had the other day, and seemed a little firmer. They were fast as heck and extremely challenging due to lots of subtle breaks. You won't get away with any sloppy putting or poor technique here, that's for sure. Fairways and rough were plush and in excellent condition, but a few more very minor burnt/bare spots than Pinnacle, mainly in the last ~40 yards of the fairways on some holes. They were also wetter than Pinnacle the other day; accordingly, had a few mudballs, a few drives that didn't really roll out, and a few long approach shots that landed a couple feet short of the green and died.

 

I liked the layout of Pinnacle way better than Monument. Pinnacle is one I will absolutely play again and is one of my new favorite courses in AZ; Monument had some good holes, but if I am going to spend this kind of money to play locally, it's going to be on Pinnacle. 

 

Played as a foursome in 3:45, only waited once briefly on the group ahead, never saw the group behind us. $149+ tax. Range is open again.

 

(this completes my "tour" this week, now back to my usual lower end west valley courses).

 

[puttnforthe8]

I know not Phx area; but played Dove Mountain - Burro and Tortolita; It was in really good shape tee to green.  There were a number of fringe areas that had dried out which made chipping harder - looks like they are fixing these gradually.

 

They are replacing all the sand with the perfect white stuff - Tortolita was all done and it is awesome hitting out of it.  They are redoing all the greens on Saguaro - I am guessing they will do all the courses later.  Probably because the membership package of Gallery and Dove is really being touted now.

 

 

 

[Olson12]

Played we-ko-pa Saguaro Saturday and boy was it tough.  The pins were brutal! But overall the conditions were very good as always. 
 

Copper Canyon today for the first time and was very impressed.  Some of the best geeens I’ve putted on all summer.  Get out there before overseed

[puttnforthe8]

Longbow in really good shape all around.  Only knock, some bunker were inconsistent.  Greens rolled well with decent speed.  Lot of improvements have happened making it even better than before.  Only bad thing is the ugly hotel blocking the nice view of red mtn on 16.  Lots of housing and retial going in around the area which I think will diminish the course a bit over time.

 

The patio is outstanding with new tvs and misters cooling it down.  Food and service was quite good too.

[hackeraz]

TPC Champions Sunday. Course was in excellent shape. Few spots where the watering was heavy in the fairways but it was rare rather than the norm. Greens were typical summer slowness but still great. At $68 it has to be the best value in the valley right now. Looks like in just a couple weeks it jumps up over $100 again. 

[Phreddy]

On 8/19/2023 at 6:33 PM, puttnforthe8 said:

I know not Phx area; but played Dove Mountain - Burro and Tortolita; It was in really good shape tee to green.  There were a number of fringe areas that had dried out which made chipping harder - looks like they are fixing these gradually.

 

They are replacing all the sand with the perfect white stuff - Tortolita was all done and it is awesome hitting out of it.  They are redoing all the greens on Saguaro - I am guessing they will do all the courses later.  Probably because the membership package of Gallery and Dove is really being touted now.

 

 

 

Dove is replacing the greens on all three nines by doing one nine per summer.  Saguaro was first.  They are also doing bunker clean up/replacement and improving sight lines off the tees on all 27.  It has always been a good to very good course with the dumbest greens.  I would imagine a lot of Ritz guests expecting a resort style course were shooting painful scores.

[puttnforthe8]

3 hours ago, hackeraz said:

TPC Champions Sunday. Course was in excellent shape. Few spots where the watering was heavy in the fairways but it was rare rather than the norm. Greens were typical summer slowness but still great. At $68 it has to be the best value in the valley right now. Looks like in just a couple weeks it jumps up over $100 again. 

 

Not sure where you put Longbow, but it was $40

[hackeraz]

21 hours ago, puttnforthe8 said:

 

Not sure where you put Longbow, but it was $40

I have to double it just to account for the drive 🙂 That's a great rate though on that course. 

[doc52]

On 8/21/2023 at 12:37 PM, Phreddy said:

Dove is replacing the greens on all three nines by doing one nine per summer.  Saguaro was first.  They are also doing bunker clean up/replacement and improving sight lines off the tees on all 27.  It has always been a good to very good course with the dumbest greens.  I would imagine a lot of Ritz guests expecting a resort style course were shooting painful scores.

When I played there in 2021 the greens were painful, but fun.

[puttnforthe8]

OK...I am going to say this one more time - actually, mostly for me - Las Sendas is the dump of all dump courses in AZ!!!  

 

Buddy of mine has never played it and has been looking to get all the courses knocked off.  So I organized a 4some today for 6am.  Figured we would beat the heat, I could explain my disdain for the course and be back in time for brunch.

 

Well..My buddy was glad he played it, but was really disappointed and said he would never be back.  NOR WILL I!!

 

There was no starter today, so the guy in the shop just said go when you're ready.  So off we went as first group.

 

It appeared as though nothing has been maintained - fairways were shaggy, rough all different lengths, greens a shaggy/bumpy mess.  The bunker were raked at least.

 

From a general standpoint - wow, has the property itself gone downhill.  There are dead trees, overgrown areas, disheveled walkways and cart paths.  I mean it is just ugly!

 

Many of the fairways were waterlogged and mushy.  Most patchy and inconsistent, with the #3 hole looking like a tornado hit.  There were many other spots just like this.  Tee boxes destroyed and closed. New sod all over the course. Just a mess!  You can try and argue "summer conditions"....but that doesn't fly here!  

 

The only positive - first out and a 3:45 round. 

 

I will honestly put this course in the bottom 10 of all courses in AZ.  I honestly can only think of a few courses worse.

 

 

[chisag]

4 minutes ago, puttnforthe8 said:

OK...I am going to say this one more time - actually, mostly for me - Las Sendas is the dump of all dump courses in AZ!!!

 

 

... First and ONLY time I played Las Sendas after recommendations from some my first year out here that said it was one of their favorites 😳  I was paired up with 3 Packer fans. That was bad enough but none of us had ever played there. Nothing quite like standing on a tee box and wondering which direction you should hit your shot. Same for several shots from the fairway. Just an abysmal layout for a first time round. I am also not a big fan of elevated greens when you can barely see the top of the flag and have no idea if there is trouble or what kind of green it is. Narrow? Wide? Slope? Tiers? 

... When I played there conditions were just a little below average and I really disliked the course, but in your conditions I would feel like they should pay me at least $100 to play there. Once was enough for me. 

[AZ_JHWK]

5 hours ago, puttnforthe8 said:

OK...I am going to say this one more time - actually, mostly for me - Las Sendas is the dump of all dump courses in AZ!!!  

 

OK, that looks terrrible. They should just shut it down. I've seen courses look sketchy in June but by late August things have usually recovered. I've played it twice and always felt they were asking too much, even when it was in decent shape.