2023 Course Conditions- Phoenix Area

[hackeraz]

32 minutes ago, rustyneversleeps said:

Coming from Montana and wondering if anyone has any "tips" or things that might be worth knowing - we are playing: 

Sat: We-Ko-Pa Saguaro 
Sun: Grayhawk Talon 
Mon: Quintero 

Thanks! 

See above for my tips on Quintero. Hopefully the greens are recovered from being punched. Front may still be a bit bumpy but I suspect the back will be good. 

5 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

 

... I think Quintero is a must play golf course because as you said "beautiful views". After the initial experience you may or may not want to play it again and we usually do about once a year, which is plenty for us. At age 70 I carry my 7 iron about 160 so not a short hitter but obviously not long enough to play the tips. But I do at Quintero from all the par 3's that have spectacular views that are all over 200yds but play much shorter due to the elevation drop. I think if more understood they are playing Quintero for the views not the course or lay out, they would have a better experience. 

I saw your post on Quintero in one of the other threads and certainly agree. The views are absolutely first rate! 

[puttnforthe8]

16 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

 

... I think Quintero is a must play golf course because as you said "beautiful views". After the initial experience you may or may not want to play it again and we usually do about once a year, which is plenty for us. At age 70 I carry my 7 iron about 160 so not a short hitter but obviously not long enough to play the tips. But I do at Quintero from all the par 3's that have spectacular views that are all over 200yds but play much shorter due to the elevation drop. I think if more understood they are playing Quintero for the views not the course or lay out, they would have a better experience. 

 

Spot on; plus the peace of no traffic, planes, cars, etc. is another huge plus. 

[parkleo]

I played Foothills on Sunday morning. I was pleasantly surprised with the shape of the course. Was disappointed no alert about the aerated fairways but the greens were in great shape. Not overly watered, somewhat receptive and playing fast. I think Troon managing this has helped the course but will be overpriced coming out of over seed in the fall. I felt like this course used to compete with San Marcos and Western Skies for the conditions I expected but this was much better than those ever in middle of June. 

[AzSuperHack76]

On 6/19/2023 at 8:28 AM, hackeraz said:

Quintero this weekend. My hot take, which isn't going to be super popular, is "MEH". Beautiful views for sure, but some of the holes just left me wondering what the hell they were trying to accomplish. Certainly didn't help that after checking their website and greenskeeper.org for the past few weeks I end up on the practice green and notice it had been punched. Turns out they just punched all greens two weeks prior and most, especially the front, were still a damn plinko board. Soured me from the get go because I would not have wasted that drive had anything showed course maintenance recently. Have a feeling I may enjoy it a bit more if and when I go back with a touch of course knowledge (this goes a long way) in hand and hopefully some decent greens. 

That’s most people’s take on this board. Quintero is beautiful for sure, and usually in excellent condition. But… it’s played out after a couple rounds. Straight ahead par 4’s, downhill par 3’s, no variety whatsoever, then throw one of the worst par 5’s in valley in #8. 
 

I still recommend it to out of towners for the vistas alone and the experience of desert golf but no need to play it other than a rare round with a friend of the price is right. 

Edited June 21, 2023 by AzSuperHack76

[Bonneville85308]

It's not Phoenix area, but since the booming metro of Yuma doesn't have it's own thread...I played Coyote Wash in Wellton, which is about 30 miles east of Yuma off I-8. You can see a couple holes from I-8.  This housing development course (interestingly owned by the Town of Wellton) consists of two nines I'll call east and west that are separated by about a mile long cart ride. Fortunately the carts are super fast so it doesn't take long to go back and forth. The east nine is actually holes 1-6 and 16-18, the west nine is 7-15. Supposedly this is a Gary Panks design. The west nine holes look Panks-esque and are halfway decent holes. The east nine holes do not look like Panks to me, they look like basic amateur design, and they are generally short uninteresting holes. Looking an old aerial, it appears the east nine was completely built and grassed before they even started moving dirt on the west nine, so who knows what happened here. From the tips it is a 68.2/114 par 70 at 6,089 yards.

 

Conditions were considerably better than I expected. It appears pride is taken in the care of this place. Good grass coverage all around for this price point. Rough is very low. Greens were receptive, but definitely the slowest greens I've played on in a long time by far. The greens had a very wide bladed/grainy grass (didn't seem like the bermuda around Phoenix, might not even be bermuda) that seemed to produce a few weird bounces on pitches/chips. Bunkers were hard but not the worst I've encountered recently. 

 

$35 to ride 18 holes. I had the whole course to myself, I was the only car in the lot besides the two employees. This is a snowbird community so I imagine the tee sheet looks just a little different in January. Wellton apparently has a 18-hole par 3 course (also owned by the Town) on the north side of I-8 that I didn't have time to play. Coyote Wash is not a course you would go out of your way to play, but if for some reason you find yourself in Wellton, it's a not the worst way to pass a few hours despite the goofy routing.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 22, 2023 by Bonneville85308

[fore_life]

Always been curious about that course, thanks for the info!!!

[AZ_JHWK]

We Ko Pa Cholla today. After playing Papago yesterday and their recently aerated greens, Cholla's greens looked really good to me. They were really smooth but not as fast as they looked. Some of the fairways were still struggling to fill in. Overall, the course was pretty soft with a few mud balls. It's always a pleasure to play either of these courses. 

[chisag]

4 hours ago, AZ_JHWK said:

We Ko Pa Cholla today. After playing Papago yesterday and their recently aerated greens, Cholla's greens looked really good to me. They were really smooth but not as fast as they looked. Some of the fairways were still struggling to fill in. Overall, the course was pretty soft with a few mud balls. It's always a pleasure to play either of these courses. 

 

 

... Any kind of decent rates? It just sucks the $49 resident rate is no longer valid in June - September. 

[jatrain]

9 hours ago, chisag said:

 

 

... Any kind of decent rates? It just sucks the $49 resident rate is no longer valid in June - September. 

The resident rate is now $65

[AZ_JHWK]

9 hours ago, chisag said:

 

 

... Any kind of decent rates? It just sucks the $49 resident rate is no longer valid in June - September. 

I just had the standard AZ rate of $65. That includes the range. I had my own cart because I jumped in with a threesome. They stock the cart with about 6 bottles of water and I used them all plus my 2 Yeti's. Ha. I got here in 2019 and the rate has gone up about $5 every year. At $49 it was a real bargain. Not as much now.

[AZ_JHWK]

The $65 rate started June 12th and ends Aug. 31st. The window keeps getting smaller.

[chisag]

1 hour ago, AZ_JHWK said:

I just had the standard AZ rate of $65. That includes the range. I had my own cart because I jumped in with a threesome. They stock the cart with about 6 bottles of water and I used them all plus my 2 Yeti's. Ha. I got here in 2019 and the rate has gone up about $5 every year. At $49 it was a real bargain. Not as much now.

 

 

... While not a summer bargain, I can pay $65 to play there a couple times. Thanks!

[SilverBullets]

On 6/25/2023 at 5:12 PM, AZ_JHWK said:

We Ko Pa Cholla today. After playing Papago yesterday and their recently aerated greens, Cholla's greens looked really good to me. They were really smooth but not as fast as they looked. Some of the fairways were still struggling to fill in. Overall, the course was pretty soft with a few mud balls. It's always a pleasure to play either of these courses. 

 

I feel like WeKoPa has had slow greens for a few years now.  I don't play there a ton (maybe 3-4 times per year) but everytime I do, their greens are a level or two slower than anything else I play in the valley at that same time.  At this point I just expect them to be slower than every Troon managed course, TPC Champs, and munis like papago/aguila. 

 

I should also stipulate, they aren't bad or poorly conditioned.  They are just slower than their competitors.  They've always rolled smooth.   

Edited June 28, 2023 by SilverBullets

[Damenace613]

Played Grayhawk Talon yesterday and overall I was pleased with the conditions; some parts were wet/muddy on the fairway from overwatering so I was surprised to see  mud balls through the round. We were stuck behind a slow group for an early round. Greens were rolling true with consistent speed; I was fortunate to play with a regular so his advice was helpful. 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Damenace613

[puttnforthe8]

Lone Tree - an absolute waste of space now!!  Got charged $50 for a wasteland of more mud and dirt than grass, crap greens that look like they were verticut with huge tines.  

 

Avoid at all costs!

[Bonneville85308]

Copper Canyon, Vista/Lake nines early this morning. Still in excellent condition all around, greens are perfect. Fairways not too heavily watered, ball was rolling, no mudballs. One bunker on Vista (#1 greenside) was very hard but I was in a few others that were fine. Had a bit of a kerfuffle with a very grumpy ranger. We had three carts in the group and he insisted that only 2 of them were allowed in the fairway on a given hole. Whatever, fine, I figured I'll ride in the rough or the path depending on where my ball is, and let the other solo rider stay in the fairway. A few holes later he meets us again and he angrily says "What's the deal? I told you, only two carts in the fairway!" I point at the two carts in the fairway, then mine in the rough, and said "I only see two in the fairway." Apparently he defines the rough as part of the fairway and then insisted one cart has to stay on the path at all times. He spent the next few holes parking behind bushes 200 yards back to keep an eye on us. I know these 55+ community courses are big on "THE RULES" but this was a little nutty, and Troon usually hires friendlier employees.

 

Played as a single paired with a very pleasant threesome and finished in about 3:35, would have been 3:32 if we didn't have to deal with that d*ckhead ranger. Shot the best score I've had on that course so it was a good day.

Edited July 2, 2023 by Bonneville85308

[chisag]

46 minutes ago, Bonneville85308 said:

I know these 55+ community courses are big on "THE RULES" but this was a little nutty, and Troon usually hires friendlier employees.

 

 

... Like coach's that coach for the good of the team or coach for themselves, rangers either range for the good of the players or range for themselves on their own power trip. The latter have no business on any golf course. Glad you had a great score! 

[AzSuperHack76]

19 hours ago, Bonneville85308 said:

Copper Canyon, Vista/Lake nines early this morning. Still in excellent condition all around, greens are perfect. Fairways not too heavily watered, ball was rolling, no mudballs. One bunker on Vista (#1 greenside) was very hard but I was in a few others that were fine. Had a bit of a kerfuffle with a very grumpy ranger. We had three carts in the group and he insisted that only 2 of them were allowed in the fairway on a given hole. Whatever, fine, I figured I'll ride in the rough or the path depending on where my ball is, and let the other solo rider stay in the fairway. A few holes later he meets us again and he angrily says "What's the deal? I told you, only two carts in the fairway!" I point at the two carts in the fairway, then mine in the rough, and said "I only see two in the fairway." Apparently he defines the rough as part of the fairway and then insisted one cart has to stay on the path at all times. He spent the next few holes parking behind bushes 200 yards back to keep an eye on us. I know these 55+ community courses are big on "THE RULES" but this was a little nutty, and Troon usually hires friendlier employees.

 

Played as a single paired with a very pleasant threesome and finished in about 3:35, would have been 3:32 if we didn't have to deal with that d*ckhead ranger. Shot the best score I've had on that course so it was a good day.

Haha, what a Jabroni….. what about the 100 other carts that drove in/on the fairway earlier in the day?? So if 3 carts are in/on the fairway at the same time they’ll ruin the grass?? Create a sinkhole? Spontaneously burst into flames??? What a jack wagon….

Edited July 2, 2023 by AzSuperHack76

[Bonneville85308]

Eagle Mountain early this morning, first time for me. Had a lot of fun on this one and will definitely be back. Course is generally forgiving but with some interesting undulations on the greens that can be tough if you put your approach shot in the wrong spot. Played the white tees at 5,900 which set up well for my distance and allowed me to reach all greens in regulation. Even got on #1 (par 5) in 2 shots, driver-5 wood (second shot barely stayed on the back of the green) which is not something I get to experience often. Seems like more downhill than uphill on this course, they saved most of the uphill for the cart rides between holes. Random note, I wouldn't bring anyone who has mobility issues to play here, seemed like every green complex had a very steep, long slope to traverse to and from the cartpath.

 

Tees excellent, fairways overall good shape with some repaired/sodded areas and numerous small burnt/bare spots but nothing to complain about. Ball rolled out really well, no mudballs or wet spots. Rough is low. Greens were all in good condition, little slower than I expected (slower than Copper Canyon yesterday), receptive. Bunker sand was top notch. Water jugs every couple holes, which I really needed today.

 

Second group off as a foursome and finished in about 3:35 with no waiting, never saw the group behind us. $90 including tax/water fees, no charge for range balls. They are supposed to aerate greens July 10th.

 

Edited July 2, 2023 by Bonneville85308

[chisag]

19 minutes ago, Bonneville85308 said:

Bunker sand was top notch.

 

 

... Good stuff. This just shows what cheep basturdz many courses are because obviously it is possible to have sand in bunkers. I am so tired of very high lips with hardpan and some light rocks in many nicer courses bunkers. I hear Raven will be shutting down 9 holes to completely re-sand their bunkers with the same sand they have on #5 they re-sanded last summer. It will suck to only have 9 holes available when I just join Arcis for the summer and the shade Raven provides, but in the end it will be worth it. 

[jatrain]

Anybody know if greenskeeper.org is still updating?  It shows every single course in AZ in the green and I have a hard time believing that’s the case right now.  It’s never been 100% accurate but I’ve always found it to be a decent guide of what courses are doing maintenance. 

[puttnforthe8]

40 minutes ago, jatrain said:

Anybody know if greenskeeper.org is still updating?  It shows every single course in AZ in the green and I have a hard time believing that’s the case right now.  It’s never been 100% accurate but I’ve always found it to be a decent guide of what courses are doing maintenance. 

 

I heard the guy stopped updating it....there was no roi in the site.

[Bonneville85308]

58 minutes ago, jatrain said:

Anybody know if greenskeeper.org is still updating?  It shows every single course in AZ in the green and I have a hard time believing that’s the case right now.  It’s never been 100% accurate but I’ve always found it to be a decent guide of what courses are doing maintenance. 

 

He stopped updating the AZ courses probably at least a year ago if not longer, I think he only updates the southern CA ones now. Ignore the conditions info for the AZ courses. There are still courses listed as "green" that permanently closed several years ago. I don't think anything around the Las Vegas area was updated during overseed season last fall either.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Bonneville85308

[jatrain]

Thanks ya’ll

[puttnforthe8]

Played Cattail today.  There are bare spots in the fairway that you need to move the ball to take a shot.  Greens aerated a while back, but still shows and affects the putts.  And GRASSHOPPERS!!  The greens were filled with them - they too affected putts.

 

4hr time - not bad; finished in 113 degree heat.  I can do without that anymore!

[Olson12]

Played GCU this weekend.  Aside fr the green on #2 and a few bare spots in the fairway it’s in good summer shape.  Teed off at 530 and done in under 4 hours

[AzSuperHack76]

3 hours ago, Olson12 said:

Played GCU this weekend.  Aside fr the green on #2 and a few bare spots in the fairway it’s in good summer shape.  Teed off at 530 and done in under 4 hours

Blast from the past, haven't seen you post in a while, hope all is well! 

[AZ_JHWK]

Southern Dunes today. 8:24 start and we got done in the 4.5 hours they're shooting for on the scorecard. Plenty of waiting. The course was in average summer condition. Fast and firm for sure. I've seen it better the previous 2 years.  The course is closing for aerification tomorrow and there are many places that need it. 

[Bonneville85308]

Sun City CC today. Fairways are not good; some decent sports but probably about half extremely sparse grass or completely bare dirt. Course was firm but lots of weird bounces (or lack of bounces) when the ball landed on the bare spots, especially just short of the greens; couldn't really predict what was going to happen. Greens were mostly OK, some bare/cracked spots around the perimeters, generally firm and average speed. Tees OK, bunkers firm but playable with a squared clubface. A lot of the bermuda rough hasn't really come back or is just burnt out. Just seemed like the whole course was water-starved. The conditions made it fairly tough to score on. $40 w/cart. I forget what the pace was but there wasn't much waiting and it was something under 4 hours. Wouldn't recommend it at the current time. Supposedly they are aerating greens in two weeks.

 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by Bonneville85308

[AzSuperHack76]

Coldwater early this morning. No other options for a last minute early tee time. Absolute train wreck. Greens are rolling about a 5 with more craters than a 16 yo kid's face working the fry pit at McDonalds. Fairways are pretty bad as well. I had zero expectations due to it being Coldwater but clearly I didn't expect it to be as bad as it was.