2023 Course Conditions- Phoenix Area

[Bonneville85308]

I played Oakcreek CC and Sedona Golf Resort up north this weekend.

 

Oakcreek had an alert on the tee time booking engine for recent aeration. I called the shop during this past week for details and they said that while they were aerating greens early in the week, it would be a very small tine aeration and would be in good shape for Sunday. He was correct, as while you could barely make out visually that they had done something, it made zero difference in the putting, the greens rolled great. They did have the rate down to $99 from $140 for this aeration, so it was a pleasant surprise to both save $41 and find the greens to just about normal. I made plenty of putts. The entire course was in excellent condition all around as it usually is; not really any bare spots I could notice. Just very heavily watered so not much roll in some fairways and approaches, the course was playing longer than the scorecard. They do have some kind of small bunker/regrassing project going on at #16 (par 3) short left of the green with an area roped off, but that bunker is not really in play except for extremely weak tee shots. Course wasn't busy and got around in about 3:05 as a twosome with some waiting on a quick foursome on the back nine. The restaurant has reopened since my last visit back in 2021. I always enjoy my visits to Oakcreek CC.

 

 

I played Sedona Golf Resort around mid-day on Saturday for $95. They had also aerated greens earlier in the week, but it was large tines with the plugs filled with sand, so the greens were very soft and slow. Could just fire straight at the flags with anything shorter than a mid-iron. No advance warning or discount when making the tee time. Fairways and approaches weren't as soaked as they usually have been here in past years I've visited, but still not a ton of roll. Some bare spots in the fairways. The rough was cut short. Some of the bunkers were trash; just inconsistent, unraked, unkept look with grass growing in many of them. Pace was about 3:40 as a twosome, we flew around the front nine and then caught a bunch of groups backed up behind a slow group. 

 

[DrSchteeve]

18 hours ago, Bonneville85308 said:

I played Oakcreek CC and Sedona Golf Resort up north this weekend.

 

Oakcreek had an alert on the tee time booking engine for recent aeration. I called the shop during this past week for details and they said that while they were aerating greens early in the week, it would be a very small tine aeration and would be in good shape for Sunday. He was correct, as while you could barely make out visually that they had done something, it made zero difference in the putting, the greens rolled great. They did have the rate down to $99 from $140 for this aeration, so it was a pleasant surprise to both save $41 and find the greens to just about normal. I made plenty of putts. The entire course was in excellent condition all around as it usually is; not really any bare spots I could notice. Just very heavily watered so not much roll in some fairways and approaches, the course was playing longer than the scorecard. They do have some kind of small bunker/regrassing project going on at #16 (par 3) short left of the green with an area roped off, but that bunker is not really in play except for extremely weak tee shots. Course wasn't busy and got around in about 3:05 as a twosome with some waiting on a quick foursome on the back nine. The restaurant has reopened since my last visit back in 2021. I always enjoy my visits to Oakcreek CC.

 

 

I played Sedona Golf Resort around mid-day on Saturday for $95. They had also aerated greens earlier in the week, but it was large tines with the plugs filled with sand, so the greens were very soft and slow. Could just fire straight at the flags with anything shorter than a mid-iron. No advance warning or discount when making the tee time. Fairways and approaches weren't as soaked as they usually have been here in past years I've visited, but still not a ton of roll. Some bare spots in the fairways. The rough was cut short. Some of the bunkers were trash; just inconsistent, unraked, unkept look with grass growing in many of them. Pace was about 3:40 as a twosome, we flew around the front nine and then caught a bunch of groups backed up behind a slow group. 

 

Those reviews completely typify these 2 Sedona courses. Oak Creek CC is RTJ Junior/Senior design, classic parkland style but still great views, usually great conditions. Sedona Golf Resort has views. The only reason to play SGR is special circumstances, e.g. beginners playing since SGR is pretty open and has some fun elevation changes. Otherwise play Oak Creek CC 99/100.

[parkleo]

Was driving by Power Ranch and noticed major construction on the holes next to the road. Looked it up and they are closed for the summer doing a full green update. Here is info but it is nice to see all that is going into it and now understand why they have had some issues recently. https://www.powerranchgolfclub.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=309&Itemid=1435

[fore_life]

Was about to post that link as well. Needed to be done for sure, now they can get back to charging $200 in the winter!

[Bonneville85308]

Copper Canyon this morning, Vista/Lake nines. Fairways, greens, and tees in absolutely excellent condition. Fairways weren't completely drenched so the ball rolled a bit. Some of the rough is pretty low/thin - seems like the bermuda isn't fully back yet in spots. Greens are a few weeks out of aeriation. They were mostly recovered, a little on the slow side, very receptive to approach shots. Rolled great. Bunkers were really bad.  Played like a super thin scattering of gravel over concrete. Gave myself a free GUR lift out of one of the more ridiculous greenside ones. They were the only negative. Pace 3:45.  Great deal for $49 including range balls and some kind of discount/free beverage coupon for the restaurant.

 

[AZ_JHWK]

Sidewinder at Gold Canyon today. My first trip around. The website rate was $61, but I clicked on the daily deals button, and I got it for $49 @ 7:37. We played in 4 hours. 

 

I had played Dinosaur before, and Sidewinder goes for much cheaper. As a result, I was expecting a more wide-open course. Far from it. It looks pretty tight off the tee, and it is in some cases. Other times it makes you think it's tighter than it really is. The starter said the first 8 greens were very accepting, and the last 10 were not. He did not lie. Mainly because the last 10 greens are more perched up and had run offs on all sides. As a result, they played a lot smaller. No rakes in the bunkers and they said just to move it aside if it ended up in a footprint. Sand did not look really great. Greens rolled good and fairways had good grass coverage, with only a few exceptions. Tee boxes were badly crowned especially on the par 3's. 

[puttnforthe8]

11 minutes ago, AZ_JHWK said:

Sidewinder at Gold Canyon today. My first trip around. The website rate was $61, but I clicked on the daily deals button, and I got it for $49 @ 7:37. We played in 4 hours. 

 

I had played Dinosaur before, and Sidewinder goes for much cheaper. As a result, I was expecting a more wide-open course. Far from it. It looks pretty tight off the tee, and it is in some cases. Other times it makes you think it's tighter than it really is. The starter said the first 8 greens were very accepting, and the last 10 were not. He did not lie. Mainly because the last 10 greens are more perched up and had run offs on all sides. As a result, they played a lot smaller. No rakes in the bunkers and they said just to move it aside if it ended up in a footprint. Sand did not look really great. Greens rolled good and fairways had good grass coverage, with only a few exceptions. Tee boxes were badly crowned especially on the par 3's. 

 

IMO...SW is the single worst 2nd course of any 'nice' complex/resort in the US.  It is such a joke that they don't do something to improve it and make it decent.

Edited June 11, 2023 by puttnforthe8

[Bonneville85308]

21 hours ago, Bonneville85308 said:

Copper Canyon this morning, Vista/Lake nines. Fairways, greens, and tees in absolutely excellent condition. Fairways weren't completely drenched so the ball rolled a bit. Some of the rough is pretty low/thin - seems like the bermuda isn't fully back yet in spots. Greens are a few weeks out of aeriation. They were mostly recovered, a little on the slow side, very receptive to approach shots. Rolled great. Bunkers were really bad.  Played like a super thin scattering of gravel over concrete. Gave myself a free GUR lift out of one of the more ridiculous greenside ones. They were the only negative. Pace 3:45.  Great deal for $49 including range balls and some kind of discount/free beverage coupon for the restaurant.

 

 

Update: Went back again this morning and played the Mountain & Vista nines. Another great experience. Bunkers on Mountain are way better than Vista & Lake, Mountain's fairways were playing a bit dryer/firmer too.

 

 

[AzSuperHack76]

Southern Dunes this morning, a little let down, greens left a lot to be desired. Small tyne aeration last week, the aeration wasn't the issue, the greens on the front nine were very inconsistent, bumpy and lots of bare spots. Back 9 greens were much better. Course has defiantly been watered aggressively.

 

Still in decent condition compared to most courses but not the typical conditions you expect out there. Tee'd off at 8 and finished in exactly 4 hours. 

Edited June 12, 2023 by AzSuperHack76

[chisag]

9 minutes ago, AzSuperHack76 said:

Southern Dunes this morning, a little let down, greens left a lot to be desired. Small tyne aeration last week, the aeration wasn't the issue, the greens on the front nine were very inconsistent, bumpy and lots of bare spots. Back 9 greens were much better. Course has defiantly been watered aggressively.

 

Still in decent condition compared to most courses but not the typical conditions you expect out there. Tee'd off at 8 and finished in exactly 4 hours. 

 

... Good to know, thanks. I join Arcis for the summer and play Raven mostly but was thinking of picking up the $199 6 round special at SD's. Gonna pass until I hear something different. 

[AzSuperHack76]

56 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... Good to know, thanks. I join Arcis for the summer and play Raven mostly but was thinking of picking up the $199 6 round special at SD's. Gonna pass until I hear something different. 

By no means was it terrible but they usually have a higher standard. Wasn’t there today. It was like the front 9 greens didn’t have the best transition to summer Bermuda. 

[chisag]

14 minutes ago, AzSuperHack76 said:

By no means was it terrible but they usually have a higher standard.

 

... Exactly. It is a long drive and well worth it when it is in normal conditions. But I ain't making that 75 mile drive for "by no means terrible". 

[teejaywhy]

On 6/11/2023 at 1:21 PM, puttnforthe8 said:

 

IMO...SW is the single worst 2nd course of any 'nice' complex/resort in the US.  It is such a joke that they don't do something to improve it and make it decent.

Build houses on it would be the kindest thing they could do.

 

[Bonneville85308]

Raven this morning, my first time there. I set my expectations for conditions kinda low given that it is an Arcis course, but was pleasantly surprised, this must be the only one they care about. Excellent conditions all around; tees, fairways, greens, even the bunkers had great sand. Greens were faster than I expected, got pretty fast once they dried off. The fairways weren't as saturated as I had anticipated either, the ball was rolling OK for the most part, only one mudball drive that landed on an upslope and died.  Only negative on the conditions wasn't the course's fault, a bunch of unfixed ballmarks on many of the greens. AZ resident rate (but non-Arcis cardholder) rate came out to about $80 with tax. I was also surprised they included bags of range balls on the cart for each player. 

 

I enjoyed the layout. Looking at the scorecard before the round, I decided that 6,264 from the whites was too long for me as a short hitter especially with a 6 par 4's over 400 yards including a 459 and likely damp fairways. So I played the next tee up, the golds at 5,759, which was a comfortable distance for me, but the 3 of the 4 par 3's basically played the same yardage and the slope/rating (66.0/114 par 72 which isn't on the card but is in the GHIN app) seemed pretty low, especially since no one tee from the golds really gives you a huge over the whites except #3. Would have been nice if they had a combo tee between white and gold to move you up on the longest par 4's and the 2 longer par 5's). Also, the average woman player must find this course really difficult as there is no other tee shorter than gold at 5,759.

 

Edited June 16, 2023 by Bonneville85308

[AzSuperHack76]

Played Falcon Dunes today, overall the course is in good shape. A few bare spots in the fairways, but few and far between, course is definitely being watered to prevent grass dying. Greens are very soft right now which is unusual for Falcon, rolling good but on the slower side unless you had a downhill putt. Pace was good, 3 hours teeing off at 945. 

[AZ_JHWK]

I played this forums favorite Muni today. The greens are about 10 days after aeration. They ran just slightly slower than normal and were very soft and receptive. Overall, they do a pretty good job with it and were only a little bumpy at 7:12 in the morning. The rest of the course was good as usual and the bunkers I visited were really nice. 

[hackeraz]

Quintero this weekend. My hot take, which isn't going to be super popular, is "MEH". Beautiful views for sure, but some of the holes just left me wondering what the hell they were trying to accomplish. Certainly didn't help that after checking their website and greenskeeper.org for the past few weeks I end up on the practice green and notice it had been punched. Turns out they just punched all greens two weeks prior and most, especially the front, were still a damn plinko board. Soured me from the get go because I would not have wasted that drive had anything showed course maintenance recently. Have a feeling I may enjoy it a bit more if and when I go back with a touch of course knowledge (this goes a long way) in hand and hopefully some decent greens. 

[Bonneville85308]

1 hour ago, hackeraz said:

 didn't help that after checking their website and greenskeeper.org for the past few weeks I end up on the practice green and notice it had been punched.

 

No offense meant to the guy who runs greenskeeper.org, but I've noticed within the past year that he no longer updates any of the maintenance alerts for AZ courses, so I would absolutely not rely on it. It shows every course in AZ as "green-no maintenance" which is far from accurate.

[puttnforthe8]

4 hours ago, hackeraz said:

Quintero this weekend. My hot take, which isn't going to be super popular, is "MEH". Beautiful views for sure, but some of the holes just left me wondering what the hell they were trying to accomplish. Certainly didn't help that after checking their website and greenskeeper.org for the past few weeks I end up on the practice green and notice it had been punched. Turns out they just punched all greens two weeks prior and most, especially the front, were still a damn plinko board. Soured me from the get go because I would not have wasted that drive had anything showed course maintenance recently. Have a feeling I may enjoy it a bit more if and when I go back with a touch of course knowledge (this goes a long way) in hand and hopefully some decent greens. 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CqYNEJhASD-/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

[Bonneville85308]

Devil's Claw at Whirlwind early this morning. First time for me. I had just played Cattail for the first time a few weeks ago and really liked that layout. Devil's Claw didn't do much for me. Hard to pinpoint why. Not bad at all, wouldn't mind playing it again, but would choose Cattail over it. I thought the par 3's were enjoyable,  #9 is an interesting par 4 even through I completely screwed up how to play it, I thought #18 was a good finishing hole. But the other mid/long par 4's sort of all blended together in my mind and it seemed like I was just hitting the same fairway shots over and over.

 

Course was heavily watered. Numerous fairway mudballs and approach shots with fairway woods that stopped dead right in front of the greens. Most of the fairways had some bare/thin spots, particularly inside 100 yards where they were more frequent and larger. Made for some very difficult pitching/chipping lies where the grass was thin/bare but the ground was soaking wet. Greens were average firmness, didn't see any unfixed ballmarks, were what I'd consider faster than average for the area. They looked like they might be kinda slow/bumpy but weren't at all.  Tees and bunkers were all great. Rough is pretty low and no issue hitting a 3-wood out of it.

 

Played with 3 other random rabbits who were nice guys and we flew around quick. $85+tax on a Monday in June felt like a mediocre value though. Parking lot was full of cars when I left, so they are having no problem getting it.

 

I wish I could have gotten a photo, but someone had altered the sign you pass by when you drive out of the parking lot by turning a "d" upside down so it now says  "Thanks for sharing your pay with us." 

 

[hackeraz]

24 minutes ago, puttnforthe8 said:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CqYNEJhASD-/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

😂 sums up my feelings quite well. 

[rustyneversleeps]

4 hours ago, hackeraz said:

Quintero this weekend. My hot take, which isn't going to be super popular, is "MEH". Beautiful views for sure, but some of the holes just left me wondering what the hell they were trying to accomplish. Certainly didn't help that after checking their website and greenskeeper.org for the past few weeks I end up on the practice green and notice it had been punched. Turns out they just punched all greens two weeks prior and most, especially the front, were still a damn plinko board. Soured me from the get go because I would not have wasted that drive had anything showed course maintenance recently. Have a feeling I may enjoy it a bit more if and when I go back with a touch of course knowledge (this goes a long way) in hand and hopefully some decent greens. 

Sucks to hear - playing there in a week. Hopefully they will have smoothed out some by then….

[hackeraz]

2 minutes ago, rustyneversleeps said:

Sucks to hear - playing there in a week. Hopefully they will have smoothed out some by then….

I feel like they should be ok in another week, especially the back. 

[MackDaddy480]

Does anyone think that rates will come down much more this summer? Some of these prices courses are asking for in the middle of June are insane...

[Bonneville85308]

2 minutes ago, MackDaddy480 said:

Does anyone think that rates will come down much more this summer? Some of these prices courses are asking for in the middle of June are insane...

 

If you think this is bad, you should see Las Vegas now, courses are still charging winter rates in June/July, most of them haven't gone down at all. Cheap summer golf there is apparently a thing of the past now. Was thinking of a trip up there to play a few new-to-me courses to check some boxes but quickly scrapped it when I saw the rates.

 

 

Locally here around Phoenix, some of the "value" courses I play on weekdays have been pretty dead compared to previous summers and I've noticed some downward price adjustments in recent weeks. But those courses' primary selling point is price; I think much of their clientele will drive 15 minutes in the other direction to play somewhere else that is $20 cheaper.

[puttnforthe8]

9 hours ago, hackeraz said:

Quintero this weekend. My hot take, which isn't going to be super popular, is "MEH". Beautiful views for sure, but some of the holes just left me wondering what the hell they were trying to accomplish. Certainly didn't help that after checking their website and greenskeeper.org for the past few weeks I end up on the practice green and notice it had been punched. Turns out they just punched all greens two weeks prior and most, especially the front, were still a damn plinko board. Soured me from the get go because I would not have wasted that drive had anything showed course maintenance recently. Have a feeling I may enjoy it a bit more if and when I go back with a touch of course knowledge (this goes a long way) in hand and hopefully some decent greens. 

 

@hackeraz maybe we can get out there...I have the Troon 2some to save some $$ -  While I agree with the meh, I also agree, it helps to play with some course 'tips'.  

 

[puttnforthe8]

4 hours ago, MackDaddy480 said:

Does anyone think that rates will come down much more this summer? Some of these prices courses are asking for in the middle of June are insane...

 

I doubt it....some of these idiotic courses have 80% empty tee sheets and still charging crazy rates.   

[hackeraz]

14 hours ago, puttnforthe8 said:

 

@hackeraz maybe we can get out there...I have the Troon 2some to save some $$ -  While I agree with the meh, I also agree, it helps to play with some course 'tips'.  

 

Lady has Troon as well so thankfully we didn't pay full rack rate. I think we are both going to jump on Troon cards this fall though so we aren't dependent on each other just to get a "deal". Full disclosure, I may have enjoyed it more if my swing didn't completely go on vacation these last couple of weeks. 

[rustyneversleeps]

Coming from Montana and wondering if anyone has any "tips" or things that might be worth knowing - we are playing: 

Sat: We-Ko-Pa Saguaro 
Sun: Grayhawk Talon 
Mon: Quintero 

Thanks! 

[chisag]

On 6/19/2023 at 8:28 AM, hackeraz said:

Quintero this weekend. My hot take, which isn't going to be super popular, is "MEH". Beautiful views for sure, but some of the holes just left me wondering what the hell they were trying to accomplish. Certainly didn't help that after checking their website and greenskeeper.org for the past few weeks I end up on the practice green and notice it had been punched. Turns out they just punched all greens two weeks prior and most, especially the front, were still a damn plinko board. Soured me from the get go because I would not have wasted that drive had anything showed course maintenance recently. Have a feeling I may enjoy it a bit more if and when I go back with a touch of course knowledge (this goes a long way) in hand and hopefully some decent greens. 

 

 

... I think Quintero is a must play golf course because as you said "beautiful views". After the initial experience you may or may not want to play it again and we usually do about once a year, which is plenty for us. At age 70 I carry my 7 iron about 160 so not a short hitter but obviously not long enough to play the tips. But I do at Quintero from all the par 3's that have spectacular views that are all over 200yds but play much shorter due to the elevation drop. I think if more understood they are playing Quintero for the views not the course or lay out, they would have a better experience.