Has anyone on here actually fixed a true cast?

[TrueBlue4Lyfe]

Seems like probably the hardest thing to fix.  I’ve gotten rid of bad EE, slide, flip, etc, I can’t improve my cast at all.   Hands are about 2-3 inches ahead of club face at impact but I can’t stop releasing significantly from the top.  At   P5 the left arm/shaft angle is probably 135 degrees. About a 5 handicap.

 

I dont think at this point that it’s due to other swing faults (to be clear, I could be wrong of course, please don't let that comment derail the thread).  I don’t have a perfect swing otherwise but I see people with much worse swings that dont cast at all.  Even if they slide, EE etc.  And I even do it on 1/2 and 3/4 swings.  

 

Ive been to instructors you’ve heard of on here and gotten mostly the same generic answers.

 

Just curious to hear any success stories 

Edited January 30, 2023 by TrueBlue4Lyfe

[MonteScheinblum]

4 hours ago, TrueBlue4Lyfe said:

Seems like probably the hardest thing to fix.  I’ve gotten rid of bad EE, slide, flip, etc, I can’t improve my cast at all.   Hands are about 2-3 inches ahead of club face at impact but I can’t stop releasing significantly from the top.  At   P5 the left arm/shaft angle is probably 135 degrees. About a 5 handicap.

 

I dont think at this point that it’s due to other swing faults.  I don’t have a perfect swing otherwise but I see people with much worse swings that dont cast at all.  Even if they slide, EE etc.  And I even do it on 1/2 and 3/4 swings.  

 

Ive been to instructors you’ve heard of on here and gotten mostly the same generic answers.

 

Just curious to hear any success stories 

It is absolutely the result of something else or you wouldn’t be doing it.  In 2022 the number of people I witnessed at least reducing it is everyone who addressed the why.

Edited January 30, 2023 by MonteScheinblum

[ThinkingPlus]

You should post your swing. There are some good folks that roam the I&A forum who can maybe help point you in a good direction.

[BigEx44]

8 hours ago, TrueBlue4Lyfe said:

Seems like probably the hardest thing to fix.  I’ve gotten rid of bad EE, slide, flip, etc, I can’t improve my cast at all.   Hands are about 2-3 inches ahead of club face at impact but I can’t stop releasing significantly from the top.  At   P5 the left arm/shaft angle is probably 135 degrees. About a 5 handicap.

 

I dont think at this point that it’s due to other swing faults.  I don’t have a perfect swing otherwise but I see people with much worse swings that dont cast at all.  Even if they slide, EE etc.  And I even do it on 1/2 and 3/4 swings.  

 

Ive been to instructors you’ve heard of on here and gotten mostly the same generic answers.

 

Just curious to hear any success stories 

 

Just curious....why are the hands 2 to 3 inches ahead of the ball at impact bad?

How far should the hands be ahead of the ball at impact?

[Hawkeye77]

1 hour ago, BigEx44 said:

 

Just curious....why are the hands 2 to 3 inches ahead of the ball at impact bad?

How far should the hands be ahead of the ball at impact?

I think his point is that his impact position doesn't look bad, but looks better than what his swing is actually producing for efficiency, speed, and so on. 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Hawkeye77

[TrueBlue4Lyfe]

8 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

It is absolutely the result of something else or you wouldn’t be doing it.  In 2022 the number of people I witnessed at least reducing it is everyone who addressed the why.

What’s to say my brain isn’t just programmed to begin releasing early because that’s what it thinks is best because of years and thousands of swings of doing it that way?  Genuinely asking.  
 

Getting your arm off your chest, while extremely beneficial, isn’t going to magically make your brain think it shouldn’t start the release from the top.

 

Like I said I see many bad swings with the usual flaws you point to that don’t cast.  

I think fixing related swing flaws is necessary and helpful but not sufficient.  

 

[TrueBlue4Lyfe]

3 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

I think his point is that his impact position doesn't look bad, but looks better than what his swing is actually producing for efficiency, speed, and so on. 

Plus sometimes the causes of casting and flipping are related.  I don’t flip

[TrueBlue4Lyfe]

8 hours ago, ThinkingPlus said:

You should post your swing. There are some good folks that roam the I&A forum who can maybe help point you in a good direction.

I’ve been to several helpful instructors who were helpful with the rest of my swing but don’t have much for casting besides the usual arm off chest, shallow stuff.

 

Not really looking for help so much as stories of people actually fixing it so I don’t give up hope 

Edited January 30, 2023 by TrueBlue4Lyfe

[parmark]

13 hours ago, TrueBlue4Lyfe said:

 I don’t have a perfect swing otherwise but I see people with much worse swings that dont cast at all.  

True  - please believe me when I say I am not being a jerk, but curious.... These other's that don't cast that you mention, are they even half way close to having the game you do?  Many of us here would be thrilled to reach your level of play.

I have heard people mention you can take every pro's swing, even the highest levels, and find a fault that they have either learned to live with, or they make compensations for.

 

I actually tip my hat for your game as it is right now.  I have two playing partners that are on both sides swing wise.  One can tell me half way thru my backswing what my faults are and has suggestions to fix them.  The other is blissfully unaware of any swings or swing thoughts, doesn't pay attention, just plays his game and enjoys the round.  I always wonder who is better off!?

[TrueBlue4Lyfe]

5 minutes ago, parmark said:

True  - please believe me when I say I am not being a jerk, but curious.... These other's that don't cast that you mention, are they even half way close to having the game you do?  Many of us here would be thrilled to reach your level of play.

I have heard people mention you can take every pro's swing, even the highest levels, and find a fault that they have either learned to live with, or they make compensations for.

 

I actually tip my hat for your game as it is right now.  I have two playing partners that are on both sides swing wise.  One can tell me half way thru my backswing what my faults are and has suggestions to fix them.  The other is blissfully unaware of any swings or swing thoughts, doesn't pay attention, just plays his game and enjoys the round.  I always wonder who is better off!?

Great points.

 

I’m not going to give up the game or anything if I can’t fix it.  
 

It’s almost just a challenge I want to solve at this point and hearing from others who did would be helpful.

Edited January 30, 2023 by TrueBlue4Lyfe

[MK7Golf21]

probably doing it to close the face by impact. 

[Zitlow]

The backswing sets up the downswing which is a ground up chain reaction. The lower body passing energy to the upper body, the upper body passing energy to the arms and the arms passing energy to the hands. The feet, legs and hips are the engine. 

 

The last link is the right wrist which unfolds snapping the clubhead into the ball. Casting, pulling or dropping the arms creates slack in the disrupting the flow of energy causing the player to add muscular effort which slows down the reflexes. 

 

 

The shoulders, arms and hands are conduits for the energy to flow through, any excessive tension creates a detent which impedes the flow of energy. 

 

[MonteScheinblum]

2 hours ago, TrueBlue4Lyfe said:

What’s to say my brain isn’t just programmed to begin releasing early because that’s what it thinks is best because of years and thousands of swings of doing it that way?  Genuinely asking.  
 

Getting your arm off your chest, while extremely beneficial, isn’t going to magically make your brain think it shouldn’t start the release from the top.

 

Like I said I see many bad swings with the usual flaws you point to that don’t cast.  

I think fixing related swing flaws is necessary and helpful but not sufficient.  

 

Like I said there’s always a reason, not always a common one.  This is what I do, believe what you want to believe.

 

There’s a reason Hackmotion asked me to do a presentation on specifically this subject at the virtual golf show last year for hundreds of other pros.

Edited January 30, 2023 by MonteScheinblum

[cgasucks]

I cast my butt off to get maximum forward shaft lean on impact.  The difference between a hacker cast and forward shaft lean on impact is the hacker doesn't open his lower body enough for the trailing arm to fully straighten well past after impact.

[MK7Golf21]

I might also add on casting/throwing right arm in case it helps anyone, many years ago I had an instructor wanting to change my release to a more cross over active right arm. I basically starting just throwing the right arm from the top and was hitting it pretty well but a year later or so I developed some tennis elbow in that right arm.  That basically took at least a year to get right and heal, part of it was trying to keep my right arm a little soft/bent into impact without such an active release which doesn't come natural in my swing.

[Krt22]

 

2 hours ago, TrueBlue4Lyfe said:

What’s to say my brain isn’t just programmed to begin releasing early because that’s what it thinks is best because of years and thousands of swings of doing it that way?  Genuinely asking. 

I think fixing related swing flaws is necessary and helpful but not sufficient.  

 

If you fixed the major swing flaws that required the cast in the first place, you would generally see a change in ball flight as an indicator that you are still doing the now un-needed compensation. In the OP you said you have fixed your EE, slide, flip..did you see a dramatic change in ball flight when you addressed those issues? 

 

Let's take the tilty hang back dumped under dirty hooker who chicken wings into impact to avoid hitting it a foot fat because their low point is so far behind the ball. If they address the core issue and start reentering, getting pressure forward, maintain their tilts, but still have the chicken wing engrained, well they will start hitting steep cuts. They will then have to learn the proper arm movements that go along with the body being in a better position.

 

So if you have "fixed" the flaws, are still casting, but not seeing any changes in ball flight, well you likely didn't actually fix the core issue.

 

There is also a chance you are chasing ghosts if you are using 2D angles in the face on view to define a cast, when a truly detrimental cast is better viewed DTL.

[TrueBlue4Lyfe]

1 hour ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Like I said there’s always a reason, not always a common one.  This is what I do, believe what you want to believe.

 

There’s a reason Hackmotion asked me to do a presentation on specifically this subject at the virtual golf show last year for hundreds of other pros.

I get it.  I admit there’s usually other causes.    Do you have any before and after videos?  
 

I know who you are and have had a lesson with you.  A lot of your stuff has been very helpful to me.

 

But it undermines your points If someone is trying to have a good faith discussion and you immediately revert to “do you not know who I am I obviously know what I’m talking about” rebuttal.

 

I brought up specific points about brain wiring.  If you don’t have a relevant response to that then just don’t say anything.

[TrueBlue4Lyfe]

43 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

 

 

There is also a chance you are chasing ghosts if you are using 2D angles in the face on view to define a cast, when a truly detrimental cast is better viewed DTL.

What should I be looking for on the DTL view?

[Krt22]

3 minutes ago, TrueBlue4Lyfe said:

What should I be looking for on the DTL view?

If that was your one take away from my post, it doesn't matter. Especially paired with your response to Monte. 

 

Best of luck in your search, but I have a feeling it will be a long and fruitless one.

[TrueBlue4Lyfe]

8 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

If that was your one take away from my post, it doesn't matter. Especially paired with your response to Monte. 

 

Best of luck in your search, but I have a feeling it will be a long and fruitless one.

 

Sorry was going to wait to digest the rest of it better later when I had more time.

 

I see much more consistent ball flight, and have much better low point control in the swing.  Not any noticeably added distance or anything though.

 

Before being snarky - maybe reread my OP?  I specifically asked for success stories.  I have heard it all by now EXCEPT for that.

 

 

[AlohaPineapple]

been working on this myself, have shifted the focus away from my hands and working more on recentering via weight/pressure and pelvic rotation

[Krt22]

4 minutes ago, TrueBlue4Lyfe said:

 

 

 

Before being snarky - maybe reread my OP?  I specifically asked for success stories.  I have heard it all by now EXCEPT for that.

 

 

I read it just fine. It reads like many posts that occur in here over and over, where the poster has a perceived problem, but then claims they don't actually have a problem, aren't looking for help, won't post a swing, know better than instructors, etc. They are essentially searching for lighting in a bottle or a little confirmation bias and discount everything else. You have done all of these things almost verbatim in just a handful of posts

 

There is a chance you have made measurable change to your swing and you still have engrained bad stuff, but it's fool's errand trying to prescribe a fix (or even provide a counter example) since no two swings are the same. There isn't some generic fix for most flaws

[TrueBlue4Lyfe]

2 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

I read it just fine. It reads like many posts that occur in here over and over, where the poster has a perceived problem, but then claims they don't actually have a problem, aren't looking for help, won't post a swing, know better than instructors, etc. They are essentially searching for lighting in a bottle or a little confirmation bias and discount everything else. You have done all of these things almost verbatim in just a handful of posts

 

There is a chance you have made measurable change to your swing and you still have engrained bad stuff, but it's fool's errand trying to prescribe a fix (or even provide a counter example) since no two swings are the same. There isn't some generic fix for most flaws

 

I haven't asked for a fix in here once.  I could be snarky like you about that fact but what's the point?  It gets you nowhere man.

 

Golfwrx groupthink is getting a little out of control.  

Edited January 30, 2023 by TrueBlue4Lyfe

[Krt22]

Just now, TrueBlue4Lyfe said:

 

I haven't asked for a fix in here once.

 

Golfwrx groupthink is getting a little out of control.  

Right. You are not looking for a fix, you have fixed all the major flaws, yet you still made a whole post about your efforts to fix it and still having the problem. 

 

Like I said, good luck with your search. I was not being snarky one bit when I said that, you are going to need a little luck to find the answers you seek with your current mind set.

 

 

[TrueBlue4Lyfe]

22 minutes ago, AlohaPineapple said:

been working on this myself, have shifted the focus away from my hands and working more on recentering via weight/pressure and pelvic rotation

 

Have you made any progress?

 

The best advice (in my opinion of course) I've gotten from an instructor (who teaches several tour pros) is to learn to hit the ball from proper position at P6 (with proper "lag") until your brain thinks it needs to get your hands and club in that position to hit it best.  I've gotten better at hitting it from there and am planning to stick with doing that this season.

[TrueBlue4Lyfe]

1 minute ago, Krt22 said:

Right. You are not looking for a fix, you have fixed all the major flaws, yet you still made a whole post about your efforts to fix it and still having the problem. 

 

Like I said, good luck with your search. I was not being snarky one bit when I said that, you are going to need a little luck to find the answers you seek with your current mind set.

 

 

 

The horror in asking for success stories to help keep me motivated.  

[AlohaPineapple]

for me, intent/feelings/thoughts of the hands weren't really working.  It was effective for shorter punchy swings, but not the full swing.  initiating an earlier shift to the leading leg has helped most for me, resulting in the hands more in front of the ball.

[MPStrat]

18 minutes ago, TrueBlue4Lyfe said:

Golfwrx groupthink is getting a little out of control.  

 It seems like that but it’s really only a handful bad eggs. Problem is, they use the emoji/like button like high school girls and comment on everything. 

[Krt22]

13 minutes ago, TrueBlue4Lyfe said:

 

The horror in asking for success stories to help keep me motivated.  

My sincere apologies then, please ignore my comments and carry on

[TrueBlue4Lyfe]

2 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

 It seems like that but it’s really only a handful bad eggs. Problem is, they use the emoji/like button like high school girls and comment on everything. 

 

Yes just seems like there's a rush to be Monte's spokeperson.  Monte is a great instructor who's an even better speaker.  It's great that he's so involved and helpful on here.  The problem is that if everyone wants to be his sidekick then it stifles discussion.