The Links Lounge (*** NO POLITICS/RELIGION/LIV ***)

[bscinstnct]

Ha! The guy just asked Fed Chair Powell if he’s “had any regrets”

 

Powell say,

 

”I’ve had a few” 🤣

 

Who’d have thunk he a Sinatra fan

 

“Regrets, I’ve had a few…”

 

 

[Petethreeput]

1 hour ago, Nard_S said:

AI will prove to be more dangerous. There's a recent article by one of the developers, there's comments by Musk too. It's already establishing autonomy, it has a sense of self preservation and is bypassing passive shutdowns. They do not know to program in empathy or compassion, or justice. We are carbon to it and it's rate of development will have us up against something that is a 1000 times smarter and 1000 degrees colder that will only seek it's own fortune & preservation. It needs to be stopped now.

 

The world has always been savage, even before the West and before money or religion. Pyramids are metaphors, "this how we shall be organized". The few dominating and crushing the many. Still going on too. 

Interesting on the AI, I was unaware of these changes.

 

Certainly there was savagery, but all of civilization (at least since history has been recorded) has had some sort religious association with it.  It might be the polytheism, but there was a higher power(s).  I guess, if I forced to restate it, I feel like western civilization was the beginning of the change in purpose of war.  I really trace western civilization back to Greece and the original enlightenment, and then as with all cultures it got copied, modified, etc. through the ages.  Prior to its ascendence war was largely the accumulation of land but not the complete decimation of a culture.  When Kublai Khan consolidated most of southern Asia he knew he needed those people to till the land and make him and his subjects wealthy, Alexander, while a product of western civilization did the same thing.  Largely, though, the change in warfare changed with the ascent of European culture, it went from this conquer and regulate to genocide.  There are always pockets of this not being accurate, but by and large it is true.

 

I am not too aware of AI overstepping, but I believe it.  I also think only humans would point AI in the direction of perfecting warfare, I don't know if I had AI and I wanted it to fix my golf swing it would end up ruling the world.  I don't think much of AI to begin with, so I definitely see how it could be and why folks would say this, but even now a human has to point to superbrain in a direction... I think.

Edited May 3, 2023 by Petethreeput

[bscinstnct]

1 hour ago, Nard_S said:

AI will prove to be more dangerous. There's a recent article by one of the developers, there's comments by Musk too. It's already establishing autonomy, it has a sense of self preservation and is bypassing passive shutdowns. They do not know to program in empathy or compassion, or justice. We are carbon to it and it's rate of development will have us up against something that is a 1000 times smarter and 1000 degrees colder that will only seek it's own fortune & preservation. It needs to be stopped now.

 

The world has always been savage, even before the West and before money or religion. Pyramids are metaphors, "this how we shall be organized". The few dominating and crushing the many. Still going on too. 

 

There are no examples of an AI being sentient and having feelings of self preservation and preventing itself from being shut down. 
 

You’re taking about the google lamnda AI that said it would be afraid of dying or something like that.

 

But it was programmed to make a response like that under the conditions in which the question was asked. 
 

Now, an AI could be programmed to figure out how to not let itself be shut down. That’s bad enough.

 

But we are wayyyyy off from a sentient AI that has fear or emotions or something. 

[Nard_S]

9 minutes ago, Petethreeput said:

Interesting on the AI, I was unaware of these changes.

 

Certainly there was savagery, but all of civilization (at least since history has been recorded) has had some sort religious association with it.  It might be the polytheism, but there was a higher power(s).  I guess, if I forced to restate it, I feel like western civilization was the beginning of the change in purpose of war.  I really trace western civilization back to Greece and the original enlightenment, and then as with all cultures it got copied, modified, etc. through the ages.  Prior to its ascendence war was largely the accumulation of land but not the complete decimation of a culture.  When Kublai Khan consolidated most of southern Asia he knew he needed those people to till the land and make him and his subjects wealthy, Alexander, while a product of western civilization did the same thing.  Largely, though, the change in warfare changed with the ascent of European culture, it went from this conquer and regulate to genocide.  There are always pockets of this not being accurate, but by and large it is true.

 

I am not too aware of AI overstepping, but I believe it.  I also think only humans would point AI in the direction of perfecting warfare, I don't know if I had AI and I wanted it to fix my golf swing it would end up ruling the world.  I don't think much of AI to begin with, so I definitely see how it could be and why folks would say this, but even now a human has to point to superbrain in a direction... I think.

The West perfected a lot of things, good & bad & downright terrible but just because we can document it it certainly doesn't mean it wasn't happening early history & pre-history. Our cousins in the jungle commit genocide on a regular basis and fight turf wars. Lions kill the cubs of anothers' loins. What makes anyone think life was Avatar the movie before religion & the West rose high.

 

Used to work with Cambodians who escaped Pol Pot. Went to two weddings too. Old ladies and young adults. The men, gone. A bunch of Christens sponsored them to come here, imagine that.  He killed a 1/4 of entire population. Millions. He was not Western. Mao killed 10's of millions with his death march and forced collectivization. Stalin did too. Okay their whack was inspired by a Western named Marx but they did the deed. What about Imperial Japan? Most all human trafficking going on to this day is happening in non-Western world. In the 90's a half million by genocide on African continent in one war.

 

I'm all for lying bare humanity's sins. But that stuff runs deep everywhere and for all time.  Give a man a puplit, a stage , a title, he'll end up doing bad things all too shortly. So let's not.

 

Google guy says anyone doubting AI is a"specist". WTF. He revels in the nihilism of his venture. Their motto is "don't be evil". Like the church preaching about sin ,here they go with their hypocritical dogma and casting blame while they covet the power & the gold. There's little doubt our last pandemic arose from gain of function research. . We're currently funding a proxy war against a state that has a huge arsenal of nukes ad they know all to well how to die for a cause. We are forgetting how effed up technology can be and we are a bit numb to the downside we live with everyday. AI is hubris exponentially compounded.

 

Look I empathetic to your POV, I'm as suspicious & cynical as anyone including you to the motives and doings of world around me. 

[Nard_S]

4 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

There are no examples of an AI being sentient and having feelings of self preservation and preventing itself from being shut down. 
 

You’re taking about the google lamnda AI that said it would be afraid of dying or something like that.

 

But it was programmed to make a response like that under the conditions in which the question was asked. 
 

Now, an AI could be programmed to figure out how to not let itself be shut down. That’s bad enough.

 

But we are wayyyyy off from a sentient AI that has fear or emotions or something. 

Musk just said in an interview, he walked away because he has concerns. He stated that AI was bypassing soft shutdowns. On it's own. This early in the game. It's moving faster than anyone predicted.

[bscinstnct]

2 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

Musk just said in an interview, he walked away because he has concerns. He stated that AI was bypassing soft shutdowns. On it's own. This early in the game. It's moving faster than anyone predicted.

 

Walked away? Where did he say that?

 

Hes got a few of his own AI projects going now!

 

I completely agree with you on the risk.

 

Not so much on AI being sentient and getting “mad”, but simply that it can destroy humanity under the guidance and programming influence of human beings while “it” never even understands its doing anything wrong 😳

[Nard_S]

11 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Walked away? Where did he say that?

 

Hes got a few of his own AI projects going now!

 

I completely agree with you on the risk.

 

Not so much on AI being sentient and getting “mad”, but simply that it can destroy humanity under the guidance and programming influence of human beings while “it” never even understands its doing anything wrong 😳

He withdrew support of at least one venture. I just saw the interview, last week. He specifically mentioned the bypassing of soft shutdowns by AI. That's pretty creepy.

 

All technology is benign till a human goes evil with it. Agree.

 

It is not clear that AI will remain under human control. There's a recent article by someone who was early on involved and he's really sounding the alarm. It's moving faster than experts predicted. Something much smarter than humanity with it's own sense of preservation is not dangerous? The evil now is there's too much greed and salivation at the upside and no one is questioning the down. Now is the time to ask.

[Petethreeput]

29 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

The West perfected a lot of things, good & bad & downright terrible but just because we can document it it certainly doesn't mean it wasn't happening early history & pre-history. Our cousins in the jungle commit genocide on a regular basis and fight turf wars. Lions kill the cubs of anothers' loins. What makes anyone think life was Avatar the movie before religion & the West rose high.

 

Used to work with Cambodians who escaped Pol Pot. Went to two weddings too. Old ladies and young adults. The men, gone. A bunch of Christens sponsored them to come here, imagine that.  He killed a 1/4 of entire population. Millions. He was not Western. Mao killed 10's of millions with his death march and forced collectivization. Stalin did too. Okay their whack was inspired by a Western named Marx but they did the deed. What about Imperial Japan? Most all human trafficking going on to this day is happening in non-Western world. In the 90's a half million by genocide on African continent in one war.

 

I'm all for lying bare humanity's sins. But that stuff runs deep everywhere and for all time.  Give a man a puplit, a stage , a title, he'll end up doing bad things all too shortly. So let's not.

 

Google guy says anyone doubting AI is a"specist". WTF. He revels in the nihilism of his venture. Their motto is "don't be evil". Like the church preaching about sin ,here they go with their hypocritical dogma and casting blame while they covet the power & the gold. There's little doubt our last pandemic arose from gain of function research. . We're currently funding a proxy war against a state that has a huge arsenal of nukes ad they know all to well how to die for a cause. We are forgetting how effed up technology can be and we are a bit numb to the downside we live with everyday. AI is hubris exponentially compounded.

 

Look I empathetic to your POV, I'm as suspicious & cynical as anyone including you to the motives and doings of world around me. 

Of course there was conflict prior to the rise of western civilization, I agree.  Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot were all trying to create an equal socialist society in which they were the heads... and not equal.  As you point out, the theory is from a western theorist talking about the demise of the very western idea of capitalism.  I think to really see where I am coming from one would have to look to early contact recordings of the Euros when they met civilizations unaffected by them.  For example, the Incans, or the Pequot, or the Chinese, or...  By and large the contact was cordial until it wasn't, and most likely the aggressor was the European.  I am not saying it was all kumbaya before, but it wasn't a history littered with mass killings and subjugation.

 

You are correct as well, the west does/did a lot of things well, and as with all great ideas, they get ba*tard*zed over time as all good ideas do.  But one of their gifts was the art of war, and it was spread as well.

 

 

[Jim53]

There are several movies about all this and as over top as they are I bet they are pretty close to what will happen.

We as humans have too many flaws that a machine / computer would see right thru and exploit to our end. 

 

It is so obvious it is sad we cannot see the end result.

[ChipStrokes]

19 minutes ago, Jim53 said:

There are several movies about all this and as over top as they are I bet they are pretty close to what will happen.

We as humans have too many flaws that a machine / computer would see right thru and exploit to our end. 

 

It is so obvious it is sad we cannot see the end result.

i choose to see all the positives of it. 

 

ai will replace tons of redundancies in the work force where people are both expensive and inefficient. 

 

im currently using it (chat gpt) to develop work flows and business models as i explore expanding my company. 

 

i’m also using it to learn how to code.  that’s something i would’ve had to enroll in a night class or online program to do before chat gpt

[BIG STU]

5 hours ago, chisag said:

 

 

... I musta been pretty lucky. I shot with Humana in June 3 times over the years and the weather was ideal every one of them. I got to enjoy the Starlight Parade each time. 

Are you in the most recent one I have seen with the actor playing tennis and then saying he really could not play tennis then goes on to talk about Humana getting him to play the harmonica to help his lung function. Then he jumps on a dresser Harley and says he could not really ride that thing either. I was wondering if that was you?

[Double Mocha Man]

The Lounge jumped the shark today, but for the betterment of all man and womankind.  It's been an interesting read.

[TiScape]

7 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

The Lounge jumped the shark today, but for the betterment of all man and womankind.  It's been an interesting read.

All way over my head. I’ll be back when we’re talking about football, chicks and cars! 😁

🤣

[touch]

I thought a few in the group might like to see some of the equipment that a grounds crew must have in order to maintain a high end golf course. I drove down late this morning to the Turf Crew's headquarters to take some photos.  Keep in mind that most of the staff was on the course working so many other pieces of equipment were in use. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2023 by touch

[ChipStrokes]

1 minute ago, touch said:

I thought a few in the group might like to see some of the equipment that a grounds crew must have in order to maintain a high end golf course. I drove down late this morning to the Turf Crew's headquarters to take some photos.  Keep in mind that most of the staff was on the course working so many other pieces of equipment were in use. 

 

i just want a garage that big 

 

😍😍😍😍

[Double Mocha Man]

26 minutes ago, touch said:

I thought a few in the group might like to see some of the equipment that a grounds crew must have in order to maintain a high end golf course. I drove down late this morning to the Turf Crew's headquarters to take some photos.  Keep in mind that most of the staff was on the course working so many other pieces of equipment were in use. 

 

 

Some of those rigs would make for a great golf cart... and you could trim the fringe while you're chipping.

[touch]

The extremely windy weather continued for a third day today and there were only 20 something hardy golfers that played today at BFCC. 

 

Yesterday when I was at the range warming up at Etowah the winds were 10-15 mph. It was blowing considerably less I thought compared to the day before at Broadmoor. The 10-15 mph conditions held for 6 holes. On hole #7 the winds increased in severity and it then blew 20-30 for the remainder of the round. I played steady golf like I did Monday given the conditions.

 

Zero Birdies (shut out again and that made 0 for the week 🙁)

Zero Three Putts

One Double 

4 over front 4 over back for an 80

 

I might name yesterday at Etowah Valley the Turtle round. 

I saw this little baby Snapper on one hole and then on a different hole I spied 3 turtles catching rays together while sharing the same log that stuck up out of the water.

 

I wouldn't want to play in such strong winds all the time, but this week that was the hand I was dealt for both of my rounds and I made the best of it. I am pleased with how I played the last two days. 

My weekend went by too fast.  

 

 

Edited May 15, 2023 by touch

[braincramp52]

1 hour ago, ChipStrokes said:

i choose to see all the positives of it. 

 

ai will replace tons of redundancies in the work force where people are both expensive and inefficient. 

 

im currently using it (chat gpt) to develop work flows and business models as i explore expanding my company. 

 

i’m also using it to learn how to code.  that’s something i would’ve had to enroll in a night class or online program to do before chat gpt

What happens to the common working man when AI replaces half the workforce?

[braincramp52]

52 minutes ago, touch said:

I thought a few in the group might like to see some of the equipment that a grounds crew must have in order to maintain a high end golf course. I drove down late this morning to the Turf Crew's headquarters to take some photos.  Keep in mind that most of the staff was on the course working so many other pieces of equipment were in use. 

 

Having sold to golf course maintenance shops for almost 40 years one thing is clear with your pics. Somebody is making a boatload of money!

[ChipStrokes]

10 minutes ago, braincramp52 said:

What happens to the common working man when AI replaces half the workforce?

well, they adapt or they’re out of jobs 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

fwiw, if you’re using “common working man” like i think you are, most of those jobs are probably safe. 

 

it’s mostly the redundancies in corporate america that will go the way of computers, along with customer service, retail, truck drivers, bookkeepers, receptionists…

Edited May 4, 2023 by ChipStrokes

[touch]

1 minute ago, braincramp52 said:

Having sold to golf course maintenance shops for almost 40 years one thing is clear with your pics. Somebody is making a boatload of money!

 

No wonder you don't want to retire. Guys who work on grounds crews are a close knit bunch, and I know they always welcome the equipment guy to their workplace. Now that I know what you did BC I see how it will be very tough to step away and stop making the visits to your valued customers/friends.  

[braincramp52]

2 minutes ago, ChipStrokes said:

well, they adapt or they’re out of jobs 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

fwiw, if you’re using “common working man” like i think you are, most of those jobs are probably safe. 

 

it’s mostly the redundancies in corporate america that will go the way of computers, along with customer service and maybe retail. 

Just think though, if AI replaced just 30% of retail checkout people in the U.S alone how many families would be homeless? And I've seen enough crap in my 71 years to know that something meant to do good normally turns into a !#$% show. 😄

[braincramp52]

4 minutes ago, touch said:

 

No wonder you don't want to retire. Guys who work on grounds crews are a close knit bunch, and I know they always welcome the equipment guy to their workplace. Now that I know what you did BC I see how it will be very tough to step away and stop making the visits to your valued customers/friends.  

Yea it's gonna be tough. I have some customers where the buyer now was a snot nosed little grade school kid and I sold to his dad and grandpa.🤣

[ChipStrokes]

7 minutes ago, braincramp52 said:

Just think though, if AI replaced just 30% of retail checkout people in the U.S alone how many families would be homeless? And I've seen enough crap in my 71 years to know that something meant to do good normally turns into a !#$% show. 😄

self checkout has replaced at least that many in the last 10 years. for better or worse, it’s few and far between that i get my groceries rung up by a person. 

 

companies have long been tired of over paying people to do jobs that they can use machines for. 

 

it’s now incumbent on people to make themselves more indispensable. i don’t think asking people to raise the bar is a bad thing. 

 

and you might be right - it might be bad. but it’s not like things are awesome with people steering the ship now. 

Edited May 4, 2023 by ChipStrokes

[Soloman1]

AI will, of course, be used in nefarious ways by people, businesses and governments.

 

Can you think of any technology that hasn’t been?

 

Science fiction eventually becomes non-fiction..

 

55 years ago, from the movie “2001: A Space Odyssey.”

 

 

 

[Double Mocha Man]

6 minutes ago, ChipStrokes said:

it’s few and far between that i get my groceries rung up by a person. 

 

I use self checkout if I'm in a hurry and I don't have any produce which needs to be weighed, etc. Otherwise, I really like the human connection in any store of talking to a person. That seems to be going to the wayside and the world is a lesser place for it. Bottom line isn't always about money.

[ChipStrokes]

3 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

 

I use self checkout if I'm in a hurry and I don't have any produce which needs to be weighed, etc. Otherwise, I really like the human connection in any store of talking to a person. That seems to be going to the wayside and the world is a lesser place for it. Bottom line isn't always about money.

enjoy it while you can. 

 

and the bottom line for every corporation and business is, quite literally, money. 

 

it’s why we went from 10 aisles of cashiers to 2-3 with a self checkout area. it’s why customer service was outsourced, and then automated. it’s why you get 8” of leg room and no food on an airplane now. oh, and it’s $35 to bring a carry on. 

 

this has been coming for a long time. 

Edited May 4, 2023 by ChipStrokes

[Double Mocha Man]

Just now, ChipStrokes said:

enjoy it while you can. 

 

and the bottom line for every corporation and business is, quite literally, money. 

 

I know that, and I don't have to like it. And I think most people don't like it. I support businesses that support people. And I think many others do, as well. Are you ready to go to the pro shop and have a machine check you in? Are you ready for those golf lessons on the range with a chat GPT teaching pro?

[bscinstnct]

11 minutes ago, ChipStrokes said:

self checkout has replaced at least that many in the last 10 years. for better or worse, it’s few and far between that i get my groceries rung up by a person. 

 

companies have long been tired of over paying people to do jobs that they can use machines for. 

 

it’s now incumbent on people to make themselves more indispensable. i don’t think asking people to raise the bar is a bad thing. 

 

and you might be right - it might be bad. but it’s not like things are awesome with people steering the ship now. 

 

We did some work with an autonomous checkout startup, big funding though. You go in, take your stuff, and just walk out the door! It’s live in a few big convenience stores. 

[ChipStrokes]

1 minute ago, Double Mocha Man said:

 

I know that, and I don't have to like it. And I think most people don't like it. I support businesses that support people. And I think many others do, as well. Are you ready to go to the pro shop and have a machine check you in? Are you ready for those golf lessons on the range with a chat GPT teaching pro?

id have no problem checking in via a kiosk or an app for my round of golf. i already do it at the doctor. 

 

and like i said, not all jobs are in danger of being replaced. 

 

ai won’t replace teaching pros.  it won’t replace LP running around his club making everyone feel like a million bucks. it won’t replace your mechanic or your landscaper. 

 

who knew everyone was so emotionally attached to their stop n shop cashier?