Will Ping make One Length Irons?

[WristySwing]

6 hours ago, GriperRiper said:

there is a lot of "OL sucks" going on here without any understanding......one has a fitting studio and thinks anyone who plays OL is a weirdo?, hope you let them know how you feel about them when they come in the door to get your "help".....we get it you dont like single length, and think things should should be done the same way by everyone and that is the "right way to do it"....its that type of thinking that hold things back.....again i will say this because it always comes to this when talking about certain subjects, but why should any company make womens clubs? or kids? or lefty? or senior?......should those people not have a option on clubs to fit there game? or should they not put any money into trying to develop these clubs for those markets? should golf just be a elitist sport where people with 110 mph SS be the only ones that they R and D clubs for (which would exclude several people in here)....If ping can make a profit on OL clubs (which i believe they can) then they will 100% do it, since they will doing R&D on them anyways.

 

As the person who you are calling out, I think I understand OL just fine thanks.  If you bothered to read any of my other posts in this very thread, I document all the reasons why it makes sense and how it continually falls short in those areas.  I probably have a better understanding of how the relationship between swing mechanics and club physics works vs. the average joe.  I'm not saying I am perfect, so don't go thinking that either.

 

So, which one of these aspects is something that I am missing about OL clubs that you know more about:

 

18 hours ago, WristySwing said:

That got me interested in it and I tried to sell them, but apart from one senior golfer with a bad back, nobody wanted them and they performed sub-optimally in many of our "fits" (as well as a big box store can do).  Most of the time we sold them for blow out prices the following year.

 

Let me clarify this above ^ when I mean sub-optimally as that is subjective.  The often had significantly worse dispersion when it came to the lower irons (Cobra sent 5i, 7i, and 9i demo heads) and as everyone else here as complained, the long irons flew much too low with too low spin when a decent 12 handicap could halfway hit a 5i respectively once and a while.  The OL had no business being in their hands at all.  The OL hybrid was even worse.

 

20 hours ago, WristySwing said:

I think a lot of comes down to what you posted one post above this one, is that the average player isn't doing enough to actually get out of it what they could.  Most of the threads I see here are from people buying cheapo sets like Pinhawk or whatever, that they cannot hit try before they buy, while a few are buying Edel or Wishon models, which again are difficult to source for your average consumer.  As I have argued many times elsewhere (and in this thread alone), it makes absolute sense.  Why wouldn't you match your favourite iron length, your favourite head weight, shaft, lie, and so on, across your whole set?  Taking my irons for example, if I got fit off of a 6i and the peak height, ball speed, dispersion, and spin were best with this club...wouldn't it make sense to take the exact club I was hitting and replicate it X number of times on down?  Absolutely it does.  

 

The difficulty arises because people want and expect different things out of different parts of their bag.  They generally expect that a 3-6 should feel hot and attempt to fly a little higher while a 7-W should feel a little denser and fly lower to focus more on control.  You can't do that with a SL set of clubs without radically changing the head style, and then it morphs out of a true "one club, one swing" philosophy that gets pushed because what works for you in the 5i and 6i due to expectancy changes when you move into a 9i and W, where the types of shots needed to be hit are different and that is, coincidentally, where most people find the biggest difficulties making the switch to SL clubs.  I think most could accept that the low launch and spin 3-5i could be easily remedied with a hybrid of driving iron club fairly easily, but what do you do with a 9i that has zero distance control, flies a mile in the air, and is 10-15% worse dispersion than your other VL set?  That there is the conundrum that needs to be solved for OL/SL to work for the masses.

[bluedot]

7 hours ago, GriperRiper said:

there is a lot of "OL sucks" going on here without any understanding......one has a fitting studio and thinks anyone who plays OL is a weirdo?, hope you let them know how you feel about them when they come in the door to get your "help".....we get it you dont like single length, and think things should should be done the same way by everyone and that is the "right way to do it"....its that type of thinking that hold things back.....again i will say this because it always comes to this when talking about certain subjects, but why should any company make womens clubs? or kids? or lefty? or senior?......should those people not have a option on clubs to fit there game? or should they not put any money into trying to develop these clubs for those markets? should golf just be a elitist sport where people with 110 mph SS be the only ones that they R and D clubs for (which would exclude several people in here)....If ping can make a profit on OL clubs (which i believe they can) then they will 100% do it, since they will doing R&D on them anyways.

I don’t think anyone has said “OL sucks”.  The comments that have been negative have been about the issues OEM’s would face in trying to manufacture, fit, and sell OL clubs; nothing more.

 

Look, if I could shoot lower scores, I’d play ANY set of clubs, including single length.  But I NEVER put a club into play without data that says it’s better than what I am currently using.  Sometime this week, my new driver will arrive, to the tune of $600+, but ONLY after my Flightscope showed me that I’d pick up an average of 8 yds vs my current driver with no loss of dispersion.  How do I do that with SL irons?  How do I KNOW that I will be able to use an LW the length of my 6 or 7 iron more effectively than my current LW?  
 

The issue FOR ME isn’t the theory of SL clubs; I get that 100%, and I even (sort of) tried it with my G30 hybrids. The issue FOR ME is dropping a grand plus on a set of clubs that might or might not work for me.  I know I can play with variable length clubs; I do NOT know that about SL’s, and I have no way to find out.

 

I think we all get the concept of low lofted irons with shorter shafts being easier to hit, and likely not losing much, if any distance.  And I even get the idea that one length might at least be marginally better for ALL full swings, even from shorter distances.  But NOBODY has ever been able to explain to me how I would benefit AROUND THE GREEN from having longer short irons and wedges, and there is no way for me to test that.

 

Add to that that the OEM’s are set up to make heads that will come out a a good swing weight and overall weight in variable lengths, and to add the tooling capabilities to make heads for SL clubs is an expense with no guarantee of being recovered.  
 

That isn’t me saying “OL sucks”.  That’s just reality.

[Socrates]

On 3/12/2023 at 8:24 AM, bluedot said:

I don’t in any way dispute the figure you cite.

 

However, I do have several questions about it that almost certainly can’t be answered.  First, over what period of time?  (I think Cobra has been selling SL sets since 2017?) Second, what percentage of total sales, both for Cobra and industry wide, does this represent? Third, and perhaps most importantly, how many of those sets are still in play?

 

I’ll say it again; I have yet to see an SL set in play anywhere.  Not at my club, where a lot of guys change equipment like I change shoes.  Not in any of the local and state senior amateur tournaments I play (14 last year, down from 20 in 2021).  Not in interclub matches.  Not at public courses when I’ve been on vacation playing as a walk up.  Not on golf trips to resort courses. Not anywhere, and I average about 150 rounds a year.  That’s pushing 1k rounds of golf at about every level of venue I can think of since Cobra started this.

 

I don’t mean to claim in any way that Cobra doesn’t know their business, or that they aren’t making money off SL sales.  I do think, though, that it’s an open question as to whether or not SL has established a significant place in the retail market.

 

 

The local Cobra rep keeps tossing out percentage of sales (like 50%) and it makes me shake my head.  I don't say he is lying, just that 50% of not much is not much.  Cobra sales have to be a small percent of the total market number.  I'm always looking at what people are playing and I've only run into a few sets over the last few years.  When Cobra was hot (Rickie and Bryson), you couldn't give the SL sets away.  

 

They will help some, but the vast majority of players aren't going near them.  Only having (had) one or two guys in the whole professional golf world using them, isn't a ringing endorsement.

[LeoLeo99]

On 3/11/2023 at 2:06 AM, Ivyguy said:

No.

 

It didn’t sell. 
 

The primary advocate of it is now not easily visible. 
 

PING is a conservative company (in terms of technical development, not “other things”). 
 

Id bet 2 paychecks that there is zero “single length “ development from PING or any other manufacturer at this point. 

I'd revise your wager to any major manufacturer.  Some one somewhere is always looking to make a buck. 

[KarstenK]

I think a more accurate thread would be why would Ping want to make single length irons? 

[AZGolfNut2]

19 hours ago, KarstenK said:

I think a more accurate thread would be why would Ping want to make single length irons? 

Same could have been said about the ChipR that they released last year....

[AZGolfNut2]

On 3/11/2023 at 3:05 PM, black bnr32 said:

Cobra says they’ve sold 43,000 one length sets

 

As a custom clubmaker who has personally fitted and built several thousands of single length iron sets over the last 7-8 years, I find it highly unlikely that they've only sold 43,000 SL sets in that same amount of time. Especially not when Bryson won the U.S. Open using their single length irons during that time period. Maybe you meant 43,000 sets per year? Still, without citing a reputable source (other than "Cobra says") that number is basically worthless. 

[jarediogolf]

Oof. Didn’t realize this would be a controversial topic. 

I’ve never tried a full set of one lengths. Tried a used F8 gap wedge and it was interesting, never seen any other club create that much spin and height. But not for me. Sold it. 
 

Also have a one length rad speed 5 hybrid. I’m not a hybrid fan but I really like it. Not currently in the bag but always tempted to put it back. 
 

I would 100% try ping single length 4-6 irons. Pings are often one of the highest launch irons you can get, so I feel they could make the one length work better than Cobra could. 
 

I can see these being “gateway clubs” for ping. Tempt some non ping players in out of curiosity. 
 

Not to mention, Ping can make the not cool club… desirable… Ping Chipr 😂

 

[AZGolfNut2]

50 minutes ago, jarediogolf said:

I’ve never tried a full set of one lengths. Tried a used F8 gap wedge and it was interesting, never seen any other club create that much spin and height. But not for me. Sold it. 

 

This is the #1 mistake that I see people make when "trying" single length irons. They buy/borrow/demo a single club, and if they don't hit it well they decide it's not going to work for them and they discard the single length idea as hot garbage. But here's the thing - the single length concept only works when you try ALL the clubs together as a set, and you give yourself enough time to get used to swinging everything the same, and that's when things really start to click (although not always). So many people just want to see what it feels like to swing a 4-5 iron, or a hybrid, or a wedge at 7-iron length, and they don't even consider the fact that they aren't going to be swinging the club properly because they are so used to swinging a certain type of club a certain way.

 

When you had that F8 one length gap wedge, I can say with 99% certainty that you likely swung it more similar to a traditional length gap wedge than a 7-iron. Whether it was the ball placement in your stance, or the distance from the ball, or the angle of attack, or a combination of several things, as you were looking down at that 49° club your mind was probably thinking "wedge swing" rather than "7-iron swing" so that's what your body does. Even if your conscious mind was thinking "7-iron swing", seeing that much loft on a club your sub-conscious usually takes over and say "don't listen to that idiot, swing it like a wedge" and your body listens. LOL. Even after 7 years of playing single length irons myself (which was preceded by 20+ years of playing with traditional irons), I still sometimes catch myself swinging the wedges more like a traditional wedge than a 7-iron - usually by putting the ball too far back in my stance and swinging too upright.

 

I don't see that at all with beginners though - I can hand a beginner golfer a single length 5-iron, 7-iron, PW, SW, doesn't matter, they'll swing them all exactly the same with no problem because they aren't used to swinging different types of clubs differently. It's just natural for them to swing everything exactly the same and they think nothing of it. I've found that the better you are or the longer you've been playing, the longer it takes to get used to swinging every club the same - and some people never do get used to it and they go back to VL clubs. But trying just a single club will almost never work out well. 

Edited March 14, 2023 by AZGolfNut2

[jarediogolf]

11 minutes ago, AZGolfNut2 said:

This is the #1 mistake that I see people make when "trying" single length irons. They buy/borrow/demo a single club, and if they don't hit it well they decide it's not going to work for them and they discard the single length idea as hot garbage. But here's the thing - the single length concept only works when you try ALL the clubs together as a set, and give yourself some time to get used to swinging everything the same, and that's when things usually start to click (although not always). So many people just want to see what it feels like to swing a 4-5 iron, or a hybrid, or a wedge at 7-iron length, and they don't even consider the fact that they aren't going to be swinging the club properly because they are so used to swinging a certain type of club a certain way.

 

When you had that F8 one length gap wedge, I can say with 99% certainty that you likely swung it more similar to a traditional length gap wedge than a 7-iron. Whether it was the ball placement in your stance, or the distance from the ball, or the angle of attack, or a combination of several things, as you were looking down at that 49° club your mind was probably thinking "wedge swing" rather than "7-iron swing" so that's what your body does. Even if your conscious mind was thinking "7-iron swing", seeing that much loft on a club your sub-conscious usually takes over and say "don't listen to that idiot, swing it like a wedge" and your body listens. LOL

 

I don't see that at all with beginners though - I can hand a beginner golfer a single length 5-iron, 7-iron, PW, SW, doesn't matter, they'll swing them all exactly the same with no problem because they aren't used to swinging different types of clubs differently. It's just natural for them to swing everything exactly the same and they think nothing of it. I've found that the better you are or the longer you've been playing, the longer it takes to get used to swinging every club the same - and some people never do get used to it and they go back to VL clubs. But trying just a single club will almost never work out well. 

I have long arms, and the shorter the club the more comfortable I am so I’m not really interested in lengthening the  lofted clubs. 
 

But I am interested in irons 4-7 or 5-7 playing the same because that’s where I see the benefit. Why does it have to be all or nothing?

 

I don’t really see a problem in introducing more confidence right at the spot where confidence fades. 

 

 

[black bnr32]

8 hours ago, AZGolfNut2 said:

 

As a custom clubmaker who has personally fitted and built several thousands of single length iron sets over the last 7-8 years, I find it highly unlikely that they've only sold 43,000 SL sets in that same amount of time. Especially not when Bryson won the U.S. Open using their single length irons during that time period. Maybe you meant 43,000 sets per year? Still, without citing a reputable source (other than "Cobra says") that number is basically worthless. 

 

[AZGolfNut2]

22 hours ago, black bnr32 said:

 

 

Wow, that's absolutely shocking if that number is accurate (@6:57 for anyone interested). Makes me wonder how many sets of variable length irons they sell if they call 43,000 sets in 7 years "a lot" (his words @7:50).

 

And I like that he says (@7:28) "if you're not a single digit handicap, you're going to hit your irons better with one length than you are with regular irons". I think that's one thing which gives single length irons a bad rap, especially in golf forums like this which consists of mostly "better" - or at least, more experienced - golfers. Because if you are a better golfer, and you are already consistent with your irons, then single length irons probably aren't going to make you play any better and in fact in some cases they may even make you worse! I would bet if there was a golf forum dedicated solely to brand new golfers, or those who regularly shoot 100+ and only play a few times a year, the feedback would be a lot different that what we mostly see in here.

 

Me personally, I played golf for 20 years before switching to single length irons, and at one point I was pretty decent (76 was a good day, 80+ was a bad day). But then life got in the way and I started playing a lot less golf, and my scores started climbing until at one point I was happy if I kept it under 90. So when I first started learning about single length irons back around 2015, I figured what the heck I'll give it a shot. And I'm glad I did, because now after 7+ years of using several different single length sets - while playing less golf than every before - I can go out after not playing for 6 months and shoot an easy 82-85. Is that great? No. But not terrible for only playing a few rounds a year.  These days I have the most trouble off the tee and on the green, but my iron play is rock solid, in fact I'd say it has never been better! Best equipment change I've ever made in my life. And I can't even count the number of golfers who I have converted over to single length irons who have told me the exact same thing. 

Edited March 16, 2023 by AZGolfNut2

[wjdpar1]

No way.  They're a failure on market as well as professional golf.

 

[boggyman]

NO

[AZGolfNut2]

1 hour ago, wjdpar1 said:

No way.  They're a failure on market as well as professional golf.

 

 

They aren't meant for professional golfers. They're meant for people who struggle with consistent iron play, which is the vast majority of the golfing world. 

[Drrussell]

On 3/13/2023 at 7:45 AM, bluedot said:

I don’t think anyone has said “OL sucks”.  The comments that have been negative have been about the issues OEM’s would face in trying to manufacture, fit, and sell OL clubs; nothing more.

 

Look, if I could shoot lower scores, I’d play ANY set of clubs, including single length.  But I NEVER put a club into play without data that says it’s better than what I am currently using.  Sometime this week, my new driver will arrive, to the tune of $600+, but ONLY after my Flightscope showed me that I’d pick up an average of 8 yds vs my current driver with no loss of dispersion.  How do I do that with SL irons?  How do I KNOW that I will be able to use an LW the length of my 6 or 7 iron more effectively than my current LW?  
 

The issue FOR ME isn’t the theory of SL clubs; I get that 100%, and I even (sort of) tried it with my G30 hybrids. The issue FOR ME is dropping a grand plus on a set of clubs that might or might not work for me.  I know I can play with variable length clubs; I do NOT know that about SL’s, and I have no way to find out.

 

I think we all get the concept of low lofted irons with shorter shafts being easier to hit, and likely not losing much, if any distance.  And I even get the idea that one length might at least be marginally better for ALL full swings, even from shorter distances.  But NOBODY has ever been able to explain to me how I would benefit AROUND THE GREEN from having longer short irons and wedges, and there is no way for me to test that.

 

Add to that that the OEM’s are set up to make heads that will come out a a good swing weight and overall weight in variable lengths, and to add the tooling capabilities to make heads for SL clubs is an expense with no guarantee of being recovered.  
 

That isn’t me saying “OL sucks”.  That’s just reality.

I am not going to argue this. I will tell you I spoke to Bryson's old coach. When I was trying to decide if I wanted to switch my kids to one length clubs. Wanted to know what he was seeing. They have done extensive testing and found that kids would consistently hit the one length SW closer in proximity than the regular length SW. 

 

I decided that before going all in, I would do the same test with my kids. Over a couple months, I set targets at different ranges. Would hit their regular SW then hit the one length SW. Did the same thing with PW. Over a 3 month period, we were seeing consistently closer proximity to the hole just like he said. We made the change. 

 

My theory is this. If you change the length of the club, the lie angle of the club the distance from the ball, the position in your stance, your posture, your swing plane...you introduce several more variables. Those differences offset what should be more control with a shorter club. 

 

I would also argue that the longer short irons are much more versatile. Why? You have more clubhead speed with less effort. Just like a traditional club, you can choke up. So you could choke up on a 1 length SW to effectively make it the same as a shorter SW. However, if you are hitting a shot that requires more speed, you don't have to do anything different. It's automatic. So, ultimately, you have more shot selection with single length wedges. 

 

Finally, from a pure practice perspective. If you hit 100 shots with one length clubs. You effectively practice 100 shots with every club. With variable length clubs, you have to hit 100 shots with every club to get the same value from practice. 

 

I have played one length clubs since they were released. My handicap when from a 14 to a 2. I don't want to argue, just sharing my experience and the personal tests I ran with kids who had always played variable length clubs. They are both playing HS golf now. 

 

When my daughter changed, she told me, "it feels like cheating because it's so much easier." 

Edited March 16, 2023 by Drrussell

[JFM628]

No.

[bluedot]

18 hours ago, Drrussell said:

I am not going to argue this. I will tell you I spoke to Bryson's old coach. When I was trying to decide if I wanted to switch my kids to one length clubs. Wanted to know what he was seeing. They have done extensive testing and found that kids would consistently hit the one length SW closer in proximity than the regular length SW. 

 

I decided that before going all in, I would do the same test with my kids. Over a couple months, I set targets at different ranges. Would hit their regular SW then hit the one length SW. Did the same thing with PW. Over a 3 month period, we were seeing consistently closer proximity to the hole just like he said. We made the change. 

 

My theory is this. If you change the length of the club, the lie angle of the club the distance from the ball, the position in your stance, your posture, your swing plane...you introduce several more variables. Those differences offset what should be more control with a shorter club. 

 

I would also argue that the longer short irons are much more versatile. Why? You have more clubhead speed with less effort. Just like a traditional club, you can choke up. So you could choke up on a 1 length SW to effectively make it the same as a shorter SW. However, if you are hitting a shot that requires more speed, you don't have to do anything different. It's automatic. So, ultimately, you have more shot selection with single length wedges. 

 

Finally, from a pure practice perspective. If you hit 100 shots with one length clubs. You effectively practice 100 shots with every club. With variable length clubs, you have to hit 100 shots with every club to get the same value from practice. 

 

I have played one length clubs since they were released. My handicap when from a 14 to a 2. I don't want to argue, just sharing my experience and the personal tests I ran with kids who had always played variable length clubs. They are both playing HS golf now. 

 

When my daughter changed, she told me, "it feels like cheating because it's so much easier." 

This is a REALLY good argument for a post that started with the sentence, "I am not going argue this." 😊

 

Seriously, I don't doubt any part of your very well written post, and if you read back thru mine, I said that I get the concept 100%.  And I'm open to the idea that I might get better, if only thru the concept of only hitting a club the length of a 7 iron, and ALL practice swings being practice swings for ALL clubs.  This is all valid.

 

But my main concern remains; how do I test and verify this without dropping a lot of money on a set, with no guarantee that any of the benefits will happen?  As I said, I am data driven in buying golf clubs, and I have NO way of getting the data I'd need to justify the expense.

 

As others have said, if Ping got on board with this, or if my club had demo sets, then I'd certainly give it a test.  But none of that is true, and I see no way of making it happen.  That doesn't make the idea invalid, or cast ANY doubt on your experience; I just can't see how I can apply it to ME.

[RSLP]

Small investment for a couple heads on their fitting carts, for a relatively decent build rate if they can match the Cobra numbers.  Coach Schy can be seen talking about Ping being in the running for B.A.D. (on youtube videos) from around his tour debut timeframe.

[2Down]

Are there single length bags?  In my bag the woods hang over the irons which hang over the wedges and sputter (it is very inconsistent).  

Just wonder if bag chatter is kinda loud as all the iron heads are banging around together.  

[bluedot]

On 3/14/2023 at 6:46 PM, AZGolfNut2 said:

 

This is the #1 mistake that I see people make when "trying" single length irons. They buy/borrow/demo a single club, and if they don't hit it well they decide it's not going to work for them and they discard the single length idea as hot garbage. But here's the thing - the single length concept only works when you try ALL the clubs together as a set, and you give yourself enough time to get used to swinging everything the same, and that's when things really start to click (although not always). So many people just want to see what it feels like to swing a 4-5 iron, or a hybrid, or a wedge at 7-iron length, and they don't even consider the fact that they aren't going to be swinging the club properly because they are so used to swinging a certain type of club a certain way.

 

When you had that F8 one length gap wedge, I can say with 99% certainty that you likely swung it more similar to a traditional length gap wedge than a 7-iron. Whether it was the ball placement in your stance, or the distance from the ball, or the angle of attack, or a combination of several things, as you were looking down at that 49° club your mind was probably thinking "wedge swing" rather than "7-iron swing" so that's what your body does. Even if your conscious mind was thinking "7-iron swing", seeing that much loft on a club your sub-conscious usually takes over and say "don't listen to that idiot, swing it like a wedge" and your body listens. LOL. Even after 7 years of playing single length irons myself (which was preceded by 20+ years of playing with traditional irons), I still sometimes catch myself swinging the wedges more like a traditional wedge than a 7-iron - usually by putting the ball too far back in my stance and swinging too upright.

 

I don't see that at all with beginners though - I can hand a beginner golfer a single length 5-iron, 7-iron, PW, SW, doesn't matter, they'll swing them all exactly the same with no problem because they aren't used to swinging different types of clubs differently. It's just natural for them to swing everything exactly the same and they think nothing of it. I've found that the better you are or the longer you've been playing, the longer it takes to get used to swinging every club the same - and some people never do get used to it and they go back to VL clubs. But trying just a single club will almost never work out well. 

I think your first paragraph gets to the heart of the problem; you say the single length concept only works when you try ALL the clubs, AND give yourself time to get used to it.   Then you add that it doesn’t always click.

 

So how do you go about all of that without dropping a lot of coins on an experiment with a full set purchase that may or may not work?  That’s really the issue, isn’t it?  
 

It’s not the CONCEPT of SL that is a problem; it’s the reality in the marketplace, and I’m not sure I see a way around that.

[RSLP]

 

Ping has a really good fitting cart, and lots of experience at it.  Ping has the I230, Crossovers, and G Hybrids that have lots of weight options for build on the factory floor today.  Ping has a lot of shaft knowledge for the steel products and can easily contract with a Paderson or any other shaft provider who can make specific OL/SL graphite.

 

It is incremental business on the irons, with many of the barriers of entry addressed already.  Capturing 40K+ more iron sets give them a chance to sell woods and putters.

 

or

 

John S just has a really good sense of humor and thought he would mess with us all!

[extrastiff]

On 3/15/2023 at 10:38 PM, AZGolfNut2 said:

 

They aren't meant for professional golfers. They're meant for people who struggle with consistent iron play, which is the vast majority of the golfing world. 

Funny thing is most pros would agree short irons are easier to swing then long irons. I’m a plus, and I love my 9 iron length OL set, pw-4 iron.
 

My 4 iron is at 7 iron length, because I do find the trajectory a bit too low to have desired landing angle on that one. 
 

I would pay good money for a video of some tour pros hitting a shorter 5 iron vs a normal one. I’d bet two paychecks the dispersion would be much tighter on the shorter one. Would it outweigh the benefits of a steeper land angle? Maybe not on the fast and hard greens on tour, but I dunno. 
 

I hope ping does, cause my cobra forged one lengths are getting pretty beat up. I doubt that they will be “players” iron though, likely an sgi version. The forged one length seem to not have sold well enough to release a update when Bryson switched to mim one length a few months ago

Edited March 17, 2023 by extrastiff

[extrastiff]

Based on this quote from pings tour rep, I doubt they will release any OL offerings 

 

“ We spend time on it and are able to build a one-length set. We’re not promoting one-length irons, but it’s something that shows we can make it happen.”

[dz14]

I reached out to Ping out of curiosity last weekend to see if they can build a single length set similar to Bryson's and they said it can be done 😀 Here's what they said: 

 

Thanks for your email!

 

If you have any custom specifications you’d like for a set of irons, you are always able to include those modifications when ordering through an authorized Ping retailer. In this case, if you would like a set of irons all at one length, you can definitely do so as long as you include the exact playable length you want to achieve. With that being said, our fitters and data analysts will always recommend using progressive lengths in your irons. That is what we have always found to give the best performance for the majority of golfers. 

 

I hope this helps, but if you do have any further questions don’t hesitate to give us a shout!

 

Best regards,

 

Braden Taylor 
Direct: 905-829-8004 ext. 3230
Fax: 905-829-1588
Email: [email protected]

 

[Drrussell]

On 3/11/2023 at 4:05 PM, black bnr32 said:

Cobra says they’ve sold 43,000 one length sets

It shocks me how much utter nonsense people put out there when it takes about 1 minute of searching to find out it's just blatant non-sense. The year they introduced the clubs, here is what they reported:

"2017, COBRA says it has sold more than 65,000 sets and 1.5 million individual ONE Length clubs."

Edited March 18, 2023 by Drrussell

[Drrussell]

Just now, Drrussell said:

It shocks me how much utter nonsense people put out there when it takes about 1 minute of searching to find out it's just blatant non-sense. The year they introduced the clubs, here is what they reported:

2017, COBRA says it has sold more than 65,000 sets and 1.5 million individual ONE Length clubs.

Since 2017, when they released the F7's...they have released two different models every year since. They have added SL wedges, SL utility clubs, SL hybrids. In short, the numbers you reported weren't even true in 2017 when they had a single set of F7 game improvement clubs. 

[VA_Astra]

I think it's funny reading that folks here don't think Bryson is a competitive player...we have all seen him do great things...and with single length irons.

As cobra is trying to come up in the market,  I could absolutely see ping taking the challenge for pure publicity. 

I've been in sales and even golf sales for over 25 years. Any angle you can take for some of the market share, companies will absolutely take it.

 

Edited March 18, 2023 by VA_Astra

[Drrussell]

On 3/16/2023 at 4:14 PM, bluedot said:

This is a REALLY good argument for a post that started with the sentence, "I am not going argue this." 😊

 

Seriously, I don't doubt any part of your very well written post, and if you read back thru mine, I said that I get the concept 100%.  And I'm open to the idea that I might get better, if only thru the concept of only hitting a club the length of a 7 iron, and ALL practice swings being practice swings for ALL clubs.  This is all valid.

 

But my main concern remains; how do I test and verify this without dropping a lot of money on a set, with no guarantee that any of the benefits will happen?  As I said, I am data driven in buying golf clubs, and I have NO way of getting the data I'd need to justify the expense.

 

As others have said, if Ping got on board with this, or if my club had demo sets, then I'd certainly give it a test.  But none of that is true, and I see no way of making it happen.  That doesn't make the idea invalid, or cast ANY doubt on your experience; I just can't see how I can apply it to ME.

Yeah. Wasn't arguing. Just giving my personal experience. Not saying it's right for anyone else. I have helped 6-7 people make the change to one length clubs in the last couple years. If the person is properly fitted it's worked out every time. There's no doubt, however, that it helped immensely since I was able to work with them and help them with the transition.

 

You can get a set of PXG one length irons really cheap. Orlimar is another good low $ set to get started. The other option is to get a used set of Cobra irons. This path, I would recommend looking for F9's or newer. F7's had trajectory problems. F8's were much better but were a bit harsh. F9's or later, Cobra really had the trajectory issues solved. If you are a low handicapper, you really will want to get into the Forged Tec. You have options to test the theory without spending too much. 

 

I completely understand the issue. I was fortunate because I had a few sets of clubs and some items like drivers that were worth some money. I traded/sold things in on my first set and made buying a set pretty painless.

 

But I had the exact same concern as you. I also used Arccos data exclusively when I started playing single length so that I could get all of the data and compare against my traditional clubs. I was able to see my exact distances and accuracy through the bag and compare them to my old variable length clubs. 

 

[AZGolfNut2]

17 hours ago, bluedot said:

I think your first paragraph gets to the heart of the problem; you say the single length concept only works when you try ALL the clubs, AND give yourself time to get used to it.   Then you add that it doesn’t always click.

 

So how do you go about all of that without dropping a lot of coins on an experiment with a full set purchase that may or may not work?  That’s really the issue, isn’t it?  

 

 

How do you know if any set of irons is going to work for you without playing with the whole set? When you go into a store to try clubs or do a fitting you'll hit maybe one or two demo clubs, and you might hit those 1-2 clubs really well but who's to say you'll hit the rest of the clubs in the set just as well? Or maybe you were just striking the ball really well that day, but then after you buy them and get them out on the course you can't hit them for s***? Or maybe it takes you a while to get used to them, and maybe they don't end up working out for you in the end and you get rid of them after a short while. How is that any different? Finding the right equipment can be an expensive endeavor, that's just the way it is. 

 

All I was trying to say is that you can't write off the single length concept just because you hit a single club and it didn't work well, you really need to use the whole set and give yourself time to get used to swinging everything the same. And it does eventually click for most golfers, especially those who haven't been playing very long or don't play very often, while it usually takes the more advanced/experienced golfers longer - and those are the ones for whom it often doesn't click because it's so different from what they are used to. But that doesn't mean it doesn't work, it just means it doesn't work for them. 

Edited March 18, 2023 by AZGolfNut2