Will Ping make One Length Irons?

[jarediogolf]

 

[kenstl]

It will be interesting to see if Ping will enter the SL iron world to the masses and how they choose to address shaft and iron head makeup on the 4-5-6 irons.  

[RogerinNewZealand]

Mmmaybe If you first name is Karsten and you already have a Full Ping Bag OR a few Tour Wins.

The new Ping G 1 Series. Otherwise its 0.5% of the marketplace best guess.lots of interest for no profit on the goods sold and that is important folks!

Red Dot Roger over n out!

[Ivyguy]

No.

 

It didn’t sell. 
 

The primary advocate of it is now not easily visible. 
 

PING is a conservative company (in terms of technical development, not “other things”). 
 

Id bet 2 paychecks that there is zero “single length “ development from PING or any other manufacturer at this point. 

[WristySwing]

No chance.  The OL/SL world, IMO is extremely narrow.  I can't find much apart from a few people here and there that come and say they still like them, but it seems many that have tried it have eventually reverted back to the tried and true system.  I have to be honest too, the people who come through my fitting studio that have SL clubs are always really ******** weird.  Most of them use JumboMax grips (gee I wonder why...), they are usually very socially awkward, and they have all been the same in that they hit one shot with a club to deem it worthy of them or not.  Every single one of them would hit a single shot and dismiss it as good or bad for them, their swings apparently so tuned that they can tell right away.  I know I am really painting with a broad stroke here, but in my experience this is the case.

 

I think it is an interesting concept that could work, but in its current iteration just doesn't.

[RCGA]

No one wants to play their wedges 2" over standard 

[Z1ggy16]

No way.... This is the result of Bryson paying them a bunch of money to develop a one off set. 

[PJE]

Formatting error; deleted. 

Edited March 11, 2023 by PJE

[Socrates]

Who is this Bryson guy?  There used to be a guy like that who played golf a few years ago.  I think he's golfing with Anthony Kim these days.

 

Zero chance of Ping doing down that rabbit hole.

[Klubster]

Considering that the single length idea has been kicked around for nearly 100 years and has never really gained any real foothold, I doubt they will make sets.  Just because it works for Moe Norman does not make it right for the masses.  How many of the single length companies are still in business today?  How many pros are playing them?  There must be a reason.

[uglande]

I would say less than 50-50, but they are better positioned than any other manufacturer, because of their iron head designs, which often have weight-adjustment mechanisms built in. Most other manufacturers leave you no option but lead tape. 

Edited March 11, 2023 by uglande

[bluedot]

I think Ping, and maybe ONLY Ping, could make it work technically because the company has fitting carts for irons all over the place, both in club pro shops and brick and mortar retail outlets.  They already fit people to one iron anyway, and doing a build from there wouldn’t be an insurmountable issue.  
 

But all of that assumes that there is a market, and I just don’t see it.  I play 150 rounds a year, including a lot of tournament golf, and I have yet to see even one set of SL irons.  Not one…

 

As to BCD, whatever marketing power he had is likely gone now, or close to it.

[black bnr32]

Cobra says they’ve sold 43,000 one length sets

[WristySwing]

6 hours ago, Klubster said:

Considering that the single length idea has been kicked around for nearly 100 years and has never really gained any real foothold, I doubt they will make sets.  Just because it works for Moe Norman does not make it right for the masses.  How many of the single length companies are still in business today?  How many pros are playing them?  There must be a reason.

 

Truthfully, I don't even think Moe used SL sets.  He just advocated for a one plane swing, which Bryson has adopted to run with this OL idea.  On paper it makes a load of sense, but in reality it fails for almost everyone.  I think realistically the only way it works would be hybrids in the long irons with descending lengths that match a traditional iron length.  SL from the 6i on down with AMT-style shafts and a muscle pad like this here (if anyone remembers the MacGregor M675 blade that had a fat blade in the long irons and progressed to a high muscle pad in the short irons).  The shift in the CG would ideally help with the main grips about SL --- that the long irons fly too low and the short irons fly too high.  I understand this isn't true OL, but lets be real for a minute, most people probably shouldn't be using an iron with under 26* of loft anyways, which is where the hybrids or some sort of chunkmaster DI style head would be best.  The descending length shafts will hep generate ball speed and lift and then once you get to that middle iron, the length stays static and you have a nice OL set after the fact.

 

[Albatross Dreamer]

3 hours ago, uglande said:

I would say less than 50-50, but they are better positioned than any other manufacturer, because of their iron head designs, which often have weight-adjustment mechanisms built in. Most other manufacturers leave you no option but lead tape. 

Yeah would likely have to be them or PXG. I do wonder about the validity of bunching irons into groups, at least the long irons. Like, could you make 4-6i the same length then go down from there? For pros it wouldn't really make sense since they can hit long irons fine, but what about ams that struggle with longer irons and don't like alternatives like hybrids?

[PowderedToastMan]

I'm not going to argue with Bryson because he's an incredible player, but I strongly believe he'd be better if he shortened his wedges a bit and lengthened his long irons a bit. Not even that much, increase the 4 and 5 by 1" to 38.5" and cut the 9-LW to 36.5". The fact that he was surprised in that video that he was hitting a lot of shots pin high is telling. You shouldn't be a former US Open champion and be surprised that you're hitting your ball the intended distance with irons and wedges. 

 

I don't think you'd have many people arguing with Bryson that conventional length gaps in irons aren't perfect. However, in his world of labratory golf, it makes more sense than single length. Find something in the middle and go with that. 

 

Also, to answer the question, no, PING won't release single length to the public. PING doesn't release products that make no sense in the labratory (the kings of labratory golf). 

 

 

[WristySwing]

10 hours ago, PowderedToastMan said:

I don't think you'd have many people arguing with Bryson that conventional length gaps in irons aren't perfect. However, in his world of labratory golf, it makes more sense than single length. Find something in the middle and go with that. 

 

 

I'm actually surprised more companies don't adopt this strategy for their tour pros.  Probably because it costs too much money, but I have always thought it made the most sense to just plunk them down with a TM or Quad on the range with like 10 different heads all with slight modifications for each one, for each iron.  Figure out the ones that go the yardage, shot shape, and trajectory they want.  Most of them are probably going to end up in a somewhat typical progressive set, but there are probably a few that will be outside the box.

[bluedot]

11 hours ago, PowderedToastMan said:

I'm not going to argue with Bryson because he's an incredible player, but I strongly believe he'd be better if he shortened his wedges a bit and lengthened his long irons a bit. Not even that much, increase the 4 and 5 by 1" to 38.5" and cut the 9-LW to 36.5". The fact that he was surprised in that video that he was hitting a lot of shots pin high is telling. You shouldn't be a former US Open champion and be surprised that you're hitting your ball the intended distance with irons and wedges. 

 

 

 

I think this paragraph is a critical piece to understand.

 

We know what BCD has done WHILE using SL clubs, and the easy default is to believe that he has done it BECAUSE of SL clubs.  The reality, of course, is probably much more complex than that, and we do not (nor will we ever!) know what BCD would have done with a different set makeup.  Better? Worse? The same?

 

I think there are two other critical pieces to this as well.  First, the extent to which the average amateur can make use of the exact equipment that professionals use, and second, the availability for amateurs of the PROCESS that BCD goes thru to get his SL set made.  I suspect that getting fitted to a 6 iron and then ordering an SL set from that is spectacularly less rigorous than his process, and I suspect the results might reflect that?

[bluedot]

15 hours ago, black bnr32 said:

Cobra says they’ve sold 43,000 one length sets

I don’t in any way dispute the figure you cite.

 

However, I do have several questions about it that almost certainly can’t be answered.  First, over what period of time?  (I think Cobra has been selling SL sets since 2017?) Second, what percentage of total sales, both for Cobra and industry wide, does this represent? Third, and perhaps most importantly, how many of those sets are still in play?

 

I’ll say it again; I have yet to see an SL set in play anywhere.  Not at my club, where a lot of guys change equipment like I change shoes.  Not in any of the local and state senior amateur tournaments I play (14 last year, down from 20 in 2021).  Not in interclub matches.  Not at public courses when I’ve been on vacation playing as a walk up.  Not on golf trips to resort courses. Not anywhere, and I average about 150 rounds a year.  That’s pushing 1k rounds of golf at about every level of venue I can think of since Cobra started this.

 

I don’t mean to claim in any way that Cobra doesn’t know their business, or that they aren’t making money off SL sales.  I do think, though, that it’s an open question as to whether or not SL has established a significant place in the retail market.

 

 

Edited March 12, 2023 by bluedot

[Lasorcier]

13 hours ago, WristySwing said:

some sort of chunkmaster DI style head

 

I actually chuckled out loud upon reading that phrase.  Well done. 

[forrester_fire]

I doubt they'll make commercially available SL irons, but I could very well be wrong.  I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze, economically speaking.

[WristySwing]

1 hour ago, bluedot said:

I don’t in any way dispute the figure you cite.

 

However, I do have several questions about it that almost certainly can’t be answered.  First, over what period of time?  (I think Cobra has been selling SL sets since 2017?) Second, what percentage of total sales, both for Cobra and industry wide, does this represent? Third, and perhaps most importantly, how many of those sets are still in play?

 

I’ll say it again; I have yet to see an SL set in play anywhere.  Not at my club, where a lot of guys change equipment like I change shoes.  Not in any of the local and state senior amateur tournaments I play (14 last year, down from 20 in 2021).  Not in interclub matches.  Not at public courses when I’ve been on vacation playing as a walk up.  Not on golf trips to resort courses. Not anywhere, and I average about 150 rounds a year.  That’s pushing 1k rounds of golf at about every level of venue I can think of since Cobra started this.

 

I don’t mean to claim in any way that Cobra doesn’t know their business, or that they aren’t making money off SL sales.  I do think, though, that it’s an open question as to whether or not SL has established a significant place in the retail market.

 

 

 

I've also wondered this as well.  Cobra has made quite a few eye-opening claims regarding their SL sales, but I know I have only personally sold 1 set.  I've seen a couple in the wild at the fitting studio I work for but never actually in the trenches where I play normally.  Now I am not playing some higher end courses most of the time, they are usually munis and the equipment I am with are rarely within the current decade, but of the newer stuff I see, it is always variable length.  Additionally, Cobra does have frequent fire sales on their SL stuff from previous years where you could pick up a set of Radspeed OL or whatever from a couple of years ago for cheap.

 

I think a lot of comes down to what you posted one post above this one, is that the average player isn't doing enough to actually get out of it what they could.  Most of the threads I see here are from people buying cheapo sets like Pinhawk or whatever, that they cannot hit try before they buy, while a few are buying Edel or Wishon models, which again are difficult to source for your average consumer.  As I have argued many times elsewhere (and in this thread alone), it makes absolute sense.  Why wouldn't you match your favourite iron length, your favourite head weight, shaft, lie, and so on, across your whole set?  Taking my irons for example, if I got fit off of a 6i and the peak height, ball speed, dispersion, and spin were best with this club...wouldn't it make sense to take the exact club I was hitting and replicate it X number of times on down?  Absolutely it does.  

 

The difficulty arises because people want and expect different things out of different parts of their bag.  They generally expect that a 3-6 should feel hot and attempt to fly a little higher while a 7-W should feel a little denser and fly lower to focus more on control.  You can't do that with a SL set of clubs without radically changing the head style, and then it morphs out of a true "one club, one swing" philosophy that gets pushed because what works for you in the 5i and 6i due to expectancy changes when you move into a 9i and W, where the types of shots needed to be hit are different and that is, coincidentally, where most people find the biggest difficulties making the switch to SL clubs.  I think most could accept that the low launch and spin 3-5i could be easily remedied with a hybrid of driving iron club fairly easily, but what do you do with a 9i that has zero distance control, flies a mile in the air, and is 10-15% worse dispersion than your other VL set?  That there is the conundrum that needs to be solved for OL/SL to work for the masses.

Edited March 12, 2023 by WristySwing

[betarhoalphadelta]

1 hour ago, bluedot said:

 

I’ll say it again; I have yet to see an SL set in play anywhere.  Not at my club, where a lot of guys change equipment like I change shoes.  Not in any of the local and state senior amateur tournaments I play (14 last year, down from 20 in 2021).  Not in interclub matches.  Not at public courses when I’ve been on vacation playing as a walk up.  Not on golf trips to resort courses. Not anywhere, and I average about 150 rounds a year.  That’s pushing 1k rounds of golf at about every level of venue I can think of since Cobra started this.

 

 

Are you regularly looking in players' bags and asking them about their clubs? 

 

I play SL and don't exactly advertise it to everyone I play with. I'd venture that even a couple people that rotate in as alternates in my regular group when core guys can't make it haven't paid enough attention to know that I'm playing SL. I can only think of one instance where we were paired with a single that it came up, and that was when I teed off with my 4h and he remarked on the length of the club looking short for a hybrid. 

 

I agree with you that it's likely a TINY fraction of the overall market, but I wonder if you have indeed encountered it in the wild and just didn't realize it. 

 

9 minutes ago, WristySwing said:

 

I think a lot of comes down to what you posted one post above this one, is that the average player isn't doing enough to actually get out of it what they could.  Most of the threads I see here are from people buying cheapo sets like Pinhawk or whatever, that they cannot hit try before they buy, while a few are buying Edel or Wishon models, which again are difficult to source for your average consumer.  As I have argued many times elsewhere (and in this thread alone), it makes absolute sense.  Why wouldn't you match your favourite iron length, your favourite head weight, shaft, lie, and so on, across your whole set?  Taking my irons for example, if I got fit off of a 6i and the peak height, ball speed, dispersion, and spin were best with this club...wouldn't it make sense to take the exact club I was hitting and replicate it X number of times on down?  Absolutely it does.  

 

The difficulty arises because people want and expect different things out of different parts of their bag.  They generally expect that a 3-6 should feel hot and attempt to fly a little higher while a 7-W should feel a little denser and fly lower to focus more on control.  You can't do that with a SL set of clubs without radically changing the head style, and then it morphs out of a true "one club, one swing" philosophy that gets pushed because what works for you in the 5i and 6i due to expectancy changes when you move into a 9i and W, where the types of shots needed to be hit are different and that is, coincidentally, where most people find the biggest difficulties making the switch to SL clubs.  I think most could accept that the low launch and spin 3-5i could be easily remedied with a hybrid of driving iron club fairly easily, but what do you do with a 9i that has zero distance control, flies a mile in the air, and is 10-15% worse dispersion than your other VL set?  That there is the conundrum that needs to be solved for OL/SL to work for the masses.

 

I play the Wishon, and they only make a hybrid at the 4 spot (20* loft), and offer both hybrids and irons in the 5 & 6, to help slower swingers who need hybrids at those lofts get the ball in the air. I personally haven't had a ton of issue with distance control. 

 

Now, I'm an outlier at 6'5" and with about a 40" WTF, which puts me in a variable set at about +1.5" (which I was fitted to in my previous set). I did a demo with Sub70 and tested out their 6i and 9i, and at standard length the 9i felt like a child's club. So I went SL largely because I absolutely NEED the added length at the bottom of the set, but with typical half inch gaps between clubs, that makes the top of the set so long that I have trouble making solid contact. Sure I could hit my old 3i far, but at 40.5" it was a question of how often I'd actually hit it anywhere near center. 

 

In the future if I go back to VL it will be with reduced length gaps through the set, maybe 1/4" rather than 1/2". Otherwise a set that's long enough for me in the short clubs is too long in the long clubs, and if it's short enough for me in the long clubs, it'll be too short in the short clubs. 

[Shilgy]

41 minutes ago, WristySwing said:

 

I've also wondered this as well.  Cobra has made quite a few eye-opening claims regarding their SL sales, but I know I have only personally sold 1 set.  I've seen a couple in the wild at the fitting studio I work for but never actually in the trenches where I play normally.  Now I am not playing some higher end courses most of the time, they are usually munis and the equipment I am with are rarely within the current decade, but of the newer stuff I see, it is always variable length.  Additionally, Cobra does have frequent fire sales on their SL stuff from previous years where you could pick up a set of Radspeed OL or whatever from a couple of years ago for cheap.

 

I think a lot of comes down to what you posted one post above this one, is that the average player isn't doing enough to actually get out of it what they could.  Most of the threads I see here are from people buying cheapo sets like Pinhawk or whatever, that they cannot hit try before they buy, while a few are buying Edel or Wishon models, which again are difficult to source for your average consumer.  As I have argued many times elsewhere (and in this thread alone), it makes absolute sense.  Why wouldn't you match your favourite iron length, your favourite head weight, shaft, lie, and so on, across your whole set?  Taking my irons for example, if I got fit off of a 6i and the peak height, ball speed, dispersion, and spin were best with this club...wouldn't it make sense to take the exact club I was hitting and replicate it X number of times on down?  Absolutely it does.  

 

The difficulty arises because people want and expect different things out of different parts of their bag.  They generally expect that a 3-6 should feel hot and attempt to fly a little higher while a 7-W should feel a little denser and fly lower to focus more on control.  You can't do that with a SL set of clubs without radically changing the head style, and then it morphs out of a true "one club, one swing" philosophy that gets pushed because what works for you in the 5i and 6i due to expectancy changes when you move into a 9i and W, where the types of shots needed to be hit are different and that is, coincidentally, where most people find the biggest difficulties making the switch to SL clubs.  I think most could accept that the low launch and spin 3-5i could be easily remedied with a hybrid of driving iron club fairly easily, but what do you do with a 9i that has zero distance control, flies a mile in the air, and is 10-15% worse dispersion than your other VL set?  That there is the conundrum that needs to be solved for OL/SL to work for the masses.

Eye opening? That’s my only quibble with the post.  Is 43k over 6 years of sales eye opening?  Especially considering Bryson’s popularity for a short period I find it easy to believe 43k sales.

 

Eye opening would be how many p790 TM sets have been sold.🙂  I swear they’re in every other bag at my club.

[bluedot]

45 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

Are you regularly looking in players' bags and asking them about their clubs? 

 

I play SL and don't exactly advertise it to everyone I play with. I'd venture that even a couple people that rotate in as alternates in my regular group when core guys can't make it haven't paid enough attention to know that I'm playing SL. I can only think of one instance where we were paired with a single that it came up, and that was when I teed off with my 4h and he remarked on the length of the club looking short for a hybrid. 

 

I agree with you that it's likely a TINY fraction of the overall market, but I wonder if you have indeed encountered it in the wild and just didn't realize it. 

 

 

I play the Wishon, and they only make a hybrid at the 4 spot (20* loft), and offer both hybrids and irons in the 5 & 6, to help slower swingers who need hybrids at those lofts get the ball in the air. I personally haven't had a ton of issue with distance control. 

 

Now, I'm an outlier at 6'5" and with about a 40" WTF, which puts me in a variable set at about +1.5" (which I was fitted to in my previous set). I did a demo with Sub70 and tested out their 6i and 9i, and at standard length the 9i felt like a child's club. So I went SL largely because I absolutely NEED the added length at the bottom of the set, but with typical half inch gaps between clubs, that makes the top of the set so long that I have trouble making solid contact. Sure I could hit my old 3i far, but at 40.5" it was a question of how often I'd actually hit it anywhere near center. 

 

In the future if I go back to VL it will be with reduced length gaps through the set, maybe 1/4" rather than 1/2". Otherwise a set that's long enough for me in the short clubs is too long in the long clubs, and if it's short enough for me in the long clubs, it'll be too short in the short clubs. 

No, I don’t typically examine the bags of the guys I play with, so it is, of course possible that I’ve missed something along the way.  But I think I would notice someone going in a green side bunker with a club the length of a 6 or 7 iron.

 

Also, it’s at least possible that I’m more aware of the equipment of others than most?  I am “brand agnostic” in the extreme; not only do I currently have 5 different brands in my bag, but I haven’t put ANY club into play for many, many years without going thru a careful testing process.  I am ALWAYS looking for something better, and so I think I might pay extra ATT to the clubs of others?  Just a feeling…

 

To be fair, I 100% get the concept, and I even tried it a bit with my G30 hybrids a few years ago because I could adjust the weights to get them to the same head weight and swing weight, plus Ping didn’t tip those shafts.  I liked it ok, but that’s about it.

[WristySwing]

1 hour ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

Are you regularly looking in players' bags and asking them about their clubs? 

 

I play SL and don't exactly advertise it to everyone I play with. I'd venture that even a couple people that rotate in as alternates in my regular group when core guys can't make it haven't paid enough attention to know that I'm playing SL. I can only think of one instance where we were paired with a single that it came up, and that was when I teed off with my 4h and he remarked on the length of the club looking short for a hybrid. 

 

I agree with you that it's likely a TINY fraction of the overall market, but I wonder if you have indeed encountered it in the wild and just didn't realize it. 

 

 

I play the Wishon, and they only make a hybrid at the 4 spot (20* loft), and offer both hybrids and irons in the 5 & 6, to help slower swingers who need hybrids at those lofts get the ball in the air. I personally haven't had a ton of issue with distance control. 

 

Now, I'm an outlier at 6'5" and with about a 40" WTF, which puts me in a variable set at about +1.5" (which I was fitted to in my previous set). I did a demo with Sub70 and tested out their 6i and 9i, and at standard length the 9i felt like a child's club. So I went SL largely because I absolutely NEED the added length at the bottom of the set, but with typical half inch gaps between clubs, that makes the top of the set so long that I have trouble making solid contact. Sure I could hit my old 3i far, but at 40.5" it was a question of how often I'd actually hit it anywhere near center. 

 

In the future if I go back to VL it will be with reduced length gaps through the set, maybe 1/4" rather than 1/2". Otherwise a set that's long enough for me in the short clubs is too long in the long clubs, and if it's short enough for me in the long clubs, it'll be too short in the short clubs. 

 

I think this is where SL makes the most sense, for your outlier players.  I've heavily considered it because I have lower back issues, and I tend to fit well into these player's distance style irons, so the Cobra Forged Tec OL makes a load of sense for my style of play.  I play everything 1/4-1/2" over (36" WTF at 6') so ordering them at standard 7i length would have them play at my normal length anyways if my math is correct on them (its been awhile so I don't quote me on that).  I like hybrids, so I could easily add some VL hybrids at the long and bingo, I have probably a decent little set.

[WristySwing]

47 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Eye opening? That’s my only quibble with the post.  Is 43k over 6 years of sales eye opening?  Especially considering Bryson’s popularity for a short period I find it easy to believe 43k sales.

 

Eye opening would be how many p790 TM sets have been sold.🙂  I swear they’re in every other bag at my club.

 

Eye opening can go both ways.  I wasn't particularly commenting about the 43k sets sold.  When I worked big box retail before moving to the fitting side the Cobra rep wasn't shy about making claims that something like half their irons set sold of the F6 or F7 (whatever the first/second iteration of OL was) were OL.  That got me interested in it and I tried to sell them, but apart from one senior golfer with a bad back, nobody wanted them and they performed sub-optimally in many of our "fits" (as well as a big box store can do).  Most of the time we sold them for blow out prices the following year.

[Ghostwedge]

To the OP, if Ping made a OL set I would absolutely try them and probably buy them. As I stated in another post a balky lower back led me to OL irons.

It was like a duck to water thing for me,  couple range sessions and 36 holes told me they would work. Unlike most guys I love the lengths in the 7-gw but ditched the 5-6 irons for regular length matching irons. Normal length 4 hybrid too.

I can hit all 9 windows with them and see no reason to ever switch back.

No mad scientist here, not even a numbers guy.  Just a normal 6'0 guy with a 3 cap for years.

I use Cobra Forged Tec OL, standard GP Tour Velvet grips.

[Tree Levino]

10 hours ago, WristySwing said:

 

Eye opening can go both ways.  I wasn't particularly commenting about the 43k sets sold.  When I worked big box retail before moving to the fitting side the Cobra rep wasn't shy about making claims that something like half their irons set sold of the F6 or F7 (whatever the first/second iteration of OL was) were OL.  That got me interested in it and I tried to sell them, but apart from one senior golfer with a bad back, nobody wanted them and they performed sub-optimally in many of our "fits" (as well as a big box store can do).  Most of the time we sold them for blow out prices the following year.

Agreed on my all points with this poster. Played 100+ rounds a year and have run into one single set in the wild. Sample size of 1 but the dude couldn’t get the long irons off the ground. This goes along with other tests I’ve seen. It just makes no sense. Longer clubs are swung faster. If you asked Bryson if he wanted a 37.5” driver it would be a hard no. You need to 1. Use hybrids or driving irons in the long end to get the ball speed up enough to get height and spin in the right place or 2. Be so stupid fast that it doesn’t matter but you’re still giving things up IMO. Just a really unnecessary way to do it IMO especially given how they had to butcher i230 heads to make that set for Bryson. I do understand doing *kind of* one length at the bottom of the bag for tall dudes. Played with a + who used 36” 9-LW and then up in length from there. 

[GriperRiper]

there is a lot of "OL sucks" going on here without any understanding......one has a fitting studio and thinks anyone who plays OL is a weirdo?, hope you let them know how you feel about them when they come in the door to get your "help".....we get it you dont like single length, and think things should should be done the same way by everyone and that is the "right way to do it"....its that type of thinking that hold things back.....again i will say this because it always comes to this when talking about certain subjects, but why should any company make womens clubs? or kids? or lefty? or senior?......should those people not have a option on clubs to fit there game? or should they not put any money into trying to develop these clubs for those markets? should golf just be a elitist sport where people with 110 mph SS be the only ones that they R and D clubs for (which would exclude several people in here)....If ping can make a profit on OL clubs (which i believe they can) then they will 100% do it, since they will doing R&D on them anyways.