Will Ping make One Length Irons?

[st1800e]

On 3/11/2023 at 3:05 PM, black bnr32 said:

Cobra says they’ve sold 43,000 one length sets

Probably made a big dent in the market….

[AZGolfNut2]

3 hours ago, Drrussell said:

It shocks me how much utter nonsense people put out there when it takes about 1 minute of searching to find out it's just blatant non-sense. The year they introduced the clubs, here is what they reported:

"2017, COBRA says it has sold more than 65,000 sets and 1.5 million individual ONE Length clubs."

 

I thought that number was nonsense as well, but then he posted a video where the cobra rep himself (I forget his exact position, but I think it was director of something) said that they've "sold over 43,000 sets of one length irons since 2017". And then he said that was "a lot". That video was from 2023. 🤷‍♂️

Edited March 18, 2023 by AZGolfNut2

[st1800e]

On 3/13/2023 at 3:29 PM, Socrates said:

The local Cobra rep

 And any rep is to be exactly accurate and honest while selling you clubs? 

[AZGolfNut2]

3 hours ago, Drrussell said:

It shocks me how much utter nonsense people put out there when it takes about 1 minute of searching to find out it's just blatant non-sense. The year they introduced the clubs, here is what they reported:

"2017, COBRA says it has sold more than 65,000 sets and 1.5 million individual ONE Length clubs."

 

I just found the quote you cited, and you left out a critical part. The full quote is "Cobra launched their innovative ONE Length irons in 2017, and since that time has sold over 65,000 sets and 1.5 million individual ONE Length clubs." This was a quote from late 2022 when the LTDX irons were released, not from 2017 as you implied. But still, the video that was posted earlier in this thread was from 2023 and he said "over 43,000 sets"...so who the hell knows what the real number is.

 

But also, it shocks me that they've sold 20-30x more "individual one length clubs" than full sets. This tells me that a TON of people are interested in trying them, and those people have made the mistake of thinking that trying a single club will tell them whether or not the concept works. But as I explained above it usually doesn't work that way, you really need to try a whole set with all the clubs at the same length and get used to swinging everything the same to find out if it's going to work for you or not. Consumer education is one of the most difficult things in any industry, and I just don't think that Cobra is doing the best job at educating customers on the how/what/why/who aspect of single length irons. 

[The bearded shanker]

I really have a feeling that if he doesn’t win a major in 2-4 years he might work with ping on going to a more traditional way to play. 

[ChaosTheory]

Former single length user here, and I’ll probably give it another go at some point.  I stopped because it was time for a different flex and I wanted to give variable length another shot. I can say that I had my best iron play with the SL.  I really should switch back, but instead I keep trying to make the variable lengths work for me.  

 

My favorite way of describing the pros and cons is this.  The benefits exceed the drawbacks, but the drawbacks are more noticeable.  I agree that it takes several rounds and some “letting go” to see what they can do for you.

 

 

Edited March 18, 2023 by Snowman9000

[bluedot]

6 hours ago, AZGolfNut2 said:

 

 

How do you know if any set of irons is going to work for you without playing with the whole set? When you go into a store to try clubs or do a fitting you'll hit maybe one or two demo clubs, and you might hit those 1-2 clubs really well but who's to say you'll hit the rest of the clubs in the set just as well? Or maybe you were just striking the ball really well that day, but then after you buy them and get them out on the course you can't hit them for s***? Or maybe it takes you a while to get used to them, and maybe they don't end up working out for you in the end and you get rid of them after a short while. How is that any different? Finding the right equipment can be an expensive endeavor, that's just the way it is. 

 

All I was trying to say is that you can't write off the single length concept just because you hit a single club and it didn't work well, you really need to use the whole set and give yourself time to get used to swinging everything the same. And it does eventually click for most golfers, especially those who haven't been playing very long or don't play very often, while it usually takes the more advanced/experienced golfers longer - and those are the ones for whom it often doesn't click because it's so different from what they are used to. But that doesn't mean it doesn't work, it just means it doesn't work for them. 

I don’t write off the SL concept; I’ve said that over and over!!!!!
 

I get the concept, and I have NO doubt that SL irons work for many golfers.  If you think that I’m arguing against the CONCEPT, then either I’m not writing clearly enough, or you’re not reading what I’m writing.

 

I’ll say this one more time, and then I promise to stop.  I don’t know how to try SL without purchasing a full set as an experiment, and I just NEVER buy golf clubs that way.  I do NOT try to save money on golf equipment, but I also don’t spend big money on experiments. 
 

And make no mistake about it; dropping a grand plus on a set of SL irons, much less hybrids, would be an experiment of the first magnitude!  I know I can play effectively with variable length clubs; I don’t know that about SL clubs, and I have no way to find out.

[Socrates]

7 hours ago, st1800e said:

 And any rep is to be exactly accurate and honest while selling you clubs? 

The problem is it's often marketing talking to reps.  They want to tell a good story and not always the truth.  In there, there likely is a grain of truth.  

[boggyman]

7 hours ago, AZGolfNut2 said:

 

I thought that number was nonsense as well, but then he posted a video where the cobra rep himself (I forget his exact position, but I think it was director of something) said that they've "sold over 43,000 sets of one length irons since 2017". And then he said that was "a lot". That video was from 2023. 🤷‍♂️

Other than the set I USE to play, I’ve seen one other set in the wild around our parts! I was shocked to see that other set! 

[ode]

5 hours ago, AZGolfNut2 said:

 

I just found the quote you cited, and you left out a critical part. The full quote is "Cobra launched their innovative ONE Length irons in 2017, and since that time has sold over 65,000 sets and 1.5 million individual ONE Length clubs." This was a quote from late 2022 when the LTDX irons were released, not from 2017 as you implied. But still, the video that was posted earlier in this thread was from 2023 and he said "over 43,000 sets"...so who the hell knows what the real number is.

 

But also, it shocks me that they've sold 20-30x more "individual one length clubs" than full sets. This tells me that a TON of people are interested in trying them, and those people have made the mistake of thinking that trying a single club will tell them whether or not the concept works. But as I explained above it usually doesn't work that way, you really need to try a whole set with all the clubs at the same length and get used to swinging everything the same to find out if it's going to work for you or not. Consumer education is one of the most difficult things in any industry, and I just don't think that Cobra is doing the best job at educating customers on the how/what/why/who aspect of single length irons. 

Some are trying a demo to see if it might lead a full set, but I suspect a lot are OL hybrid purchases and golfers wanting to try OL long irons or OL driving irons, and a very small percentage trying it on the other end of the bag trying the wedges!  It adds up.

[Ghostwedge]

4 hours ago, bluedot said:

I don’t write off the SL concept; I’ve said that over and over!!!!!
 

I get the concept, and I have NO doubt that SL irons work for many golfers.  If you think that I’m arguing against the CONCEPT, then either I’m not writing clearly enough, or you’re not reading what I’m writing.

 

I’ll say this one more time, and then I promise to stop.  I don’t know how to try SL without purchasing a full set as an experiment, and I just NEVER buy golf clubs that way.  I do NOT try to save money on golf equipment, but I also don’t spend big money on experiments. 
 

And make no mistake about it; dropping a grand plus on a set of SL irons, much less hybrids, would be an experiment of the first magnitude!  I know I can play effectively with variable length clubs; I don’t know that about SL clubs, and I have no way to find out.

You don't have to drop a grand on OL clubs to find out if they work for you and you don't have to go the single-try-it route either. I spent $250 on a set of Orlimar OL's, figured out the 5-6 irons didn't work for me and the 7 thru gw did.

Sold the Orlimar's for $200 and been with the Cobra Forged Tec's since.

Cost me $50 and a few weeks of hitting balls. 

 

[kenstl]

10 hours ago, Snowman9000 said:

Former single length user here, and I’ll probably give it another go at some point.  I stopped because it was time for a different flex and I wanted to give variable length another shot. I can say that I had my best iron play with the SL.  I really should switch back, but instead I keep trying to make the variable lengths work for me.  

 

My favorite way of describing the pros and cons is this.  The benefits exceed the drawbacks, but the drawbacks are more noticeable.  I agree that it takes several rounds and some “letting go” to see what they can do for you.

 

 

Agree with above, as well a comment earlier in the thread about them being great for fitting outliers like really tall players like myself.  I would go further and state that almost anyone over a 12 handicap would benefit greatly with trying SL irons.  It takes out variables of lie angle and different length and total weight of clubs, which then gives you a consistent set up vs variable.  Yes, you will probably hit long irons lower and wedges higher, but your ball striking will improve (center head strikes) over time.  For higher handicap players, improving ball striking consistency should be their only goal if they are looking to get better, and what better way by alleviating variables between clubs.  Worry about ball flight height and other things once you are hitting 9-12 GIR on a regular basis.  The better your ball striking the more GIR and the more GIR the lower your scores, even if you suck at putting.  

[AZGolfNut2]

10 hours ago, Ghostwedge said:

You don't have to drop a grand on OL clubs to find out if they work for you and you don't have to go the single-try-it route either. I spent $250 on a set of Orlimar OL's, figured out the 5-6 irons didn't work for me and the 7 thru gw did.

Sold the Orlimar's for $200 and been with the Cobra Forged Tec's since.

Cost me $50 and a few weeks of hitting balls. 

 

 

I was about to say the same thing, you don't need to spend anywhere near that much to see if the concept works. Buy a used set that's a couple years old which used to be a grand but now can be bought for a few hundred bucks on eBay. Heck, even the Pinhawks - which have been a favorite amongst the single length community for years - can be had for under $500 fully custom built to your specs. 

 

And then if they don't work, you should be able to sell them for close to what you paid which means you're out little to no money. Or if they do work, you can either keep them or then decide to invest some more money into a brand new expensive custom built set. 

Edited March 19, 2023 by AZGolfNut2

[extrastiff]

On 3/17/2023 at 12:57 PM, dz14 said:

I reached out to Ping out of curiosity last weekend to see if they can build a single length set similar to Bryson's and they said it can be done 😀 Here's what they said: 

 

Thanks for your email!

 

If you have any custom specifications you’d like for a set of irons, you are always able to include those modifications when ordering through an authorized Ping retailer. In this case, if you would like a set of irons all at one length, you can definitely do so as long as you include the exact playable length you want to achieve. With that being said, our fitters and data analysts will always recommend using progressive lengths in your irons. That is what we have always found to give the best performance for the majority of golfers. 

 

I hope this helps, but if you do have any further questions don’t hesitate to give us a shout!

 

Best regards,

 

Braden Taylor 
Direct: 905-829-8004 ext. 3230
Fax: 905-829-1588
Email: [email protected]

 

 

For anyone interested, I will be reaching out to ping tomorrow to see if I can get a set built up for myself as close to Bryson’s specs as possible

[Ghostwedge]

4 hours ago, extrastiff said:

For anyone interested, I will be reaching out to ping tomorrow to see if I can get a set built up for myself as close to Bryson’s specs as possible

Ya let us know how that goes....

Then tell them to copy a set of Cobra Forged Tec OL irons, I'll take any head they want to use on them. 

[Drrussell]

On 3/20/2023 at 12:11 AM, Ghostwedge said:

Ya let us know how that goes....

Then tell them to copy a set of Cobra Forged Tec OL irons, I'll take any head they want to use on them. 

Ping will be interesting to watch. I don't think the market is big enough to have multiple major club manufacturers making them and Cobra has the market covered. Today, you can choose Cobra, Wishon, PGX, and Orlimar. Wishon clubs are pretty expensive custom clubs. PGX and Orlimar are really affordable. 

 

I would love to see someone like Ping make OL irons because I have had to go through and make corrections to the Cobra irons and most people would not have time or access to the tools to go through and customize their clubs the way I have. 

 

For my next set, I may go through and build my own. It wouldn't be too difficult. You need to make every clubhead 270-285 grams and adjust lie angles and add the LA golf Bryson shafts. When I look at clubheads like PXG it would be super easy to get weight right because they have all of the adjustable weights in their clubhead design.

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by Drrussell

[bluedot]

On 3/18/2023 at 11:59 PM, AZGolfNut2 said:

 

I was about to say the same thing, you don't need to spend anywhere near that much to see if the concept works. Buy a used set that's a couple years old which used to be a grand but now can be bought for a few hundred bucks on eBay. Heck, even the Pinhawks - which have been a favorite amongst the single length community for years - can be had for under $500 fully custom built to your specs. 

 

And then if they don't work, you should be able to sell them for close to what you paid which means you're out little to no money. Or if they do work, you can either keep them or then decide to invest some more money into a brand new expensive custom built set. 

Well…

 

Remember me writing that I get the concept of SL?  
 

I now have a set of used Edels; purchased off the bay for more than I wanted to spend, BUT they are spot on for a true test.  (Golf is my vice; I do NOT try very hard to save money on golf equipment!)

 

Same length as my current T200 7 iron, and the seller adjusted them one degree to match that lie angle.  The Paderson graphite shafts are R flex instead of the S I have in my T200’s, BUT I had used R in my irons for years before the T200s, and my club fitter insists that graphite iron shafts are much more about the correct weight than flex, and the Padersons are heavier than the Tensei Blues in my T200s.  That part wouldn’t be a perfect comparison no matter what, so hopefully it’s a small(ish) difference. The grips are even the CP2 midsize that I’ve been using for years.

 

They just came yesterday, and it’s raining like fury here, plus I’ve got 4 ball tournaments Monday, Tuesday, and Saturday this week, so it’ll be awhile before I can really get into these things, either on the course or even on the range with my Flightscope.  But I’m intrigued…

 

I’ll get back to you.

[ChipNRun]

On 3/11/2023 at 12:56 AM, kenstl said:

It will be interesting to see if Ping will enter the SL iron world to the masses...

 

Ping has never gone the to the masses route. Karsten crew brought custom fitting to the serious everyday golfers back in the 1970s, but not the masses.

 

The single-length/one-length irons had their heydey, and will retain a niche market. It appears that Cobra, Wishon Golf, Blackstone... and Pinhawk for the budget-minded, are covering this niche market nicely.

 

But, SL needs a tech epiphany to overcome its current lingering drawbacks:

 

On 3/12/2023 at 9:40 AM, WristySwing said:

The difficulty arises because people want and expect different things out of different parts of their bag.  They generally expect that a 3-6 should feel hot and attempt to fly a little higher while a 7-W should feel a little denser and fly lower to focus more on control.  You can't do that with a SL set of clubs without radically changing the head style...

 

And, one thing that might help is having the wedges at a single standard length, shorter than the 7i basis. A couple of OEMs already set their specialty G, S and L wedges at 35.25" uniform stock length. Tour Edge does this for its Exotics forged EXL/Blade, and Mizuno does likewise for its current S23 and T22 wedges.

[braincramp52]

I believe Ping is far too conservative to venture into the SL field. It just doesn't fit their style.

[Drrussell]

On 4/8/2023 at 10:46 AM, bluedot said:

Well…

 

Remember me writing that I get the concept of SL?  
 

I now have a set of used Edels; purchased off the bay for more than I wanted to spend, BUT they are spot on for a true test.  (Golf is my vice; I do NOT try very hard to save money on golf equipment!)

 

Same length as my current T200 7 iron, and the seller adjusted them one degree to match that lie angle.  The Paderson graphite shafts are R flex instead of the S I have in my T200’s, BUT I had used R in my irons for years before the T200s, and my club fitter insists that graphite iron shafts are much more about the correct weight than flex, and the Padersons are heavier than the Tensei Blues in my T200s.  That part wouldn’t be a perfect comparison no matter what, so hopefully it’s a small(ish) difference. The grips are even the CP2 midsize that I’ve been using for years.

 

They just came yesterday, and it’s raining like fury here, plus I’ve got 4 ball tournaments Monday, Tuesday, and Saturday this week, so it’ll be awhile before I can really get into these things, either on the course or even on the range with my Flightscope.  But I’m intrigued…

 

I’ll get back to you.

Can't wait to see how they work for you. At first, you may want to choke up on wedges until you get enough time at the range. For the less lofted clubs, remind yourself to swing like a 7i. You will find that your best hits on lower lofted clubs will be a little shorter, but your average distance will be better with the lower lofted clubs. 

 

Depending on your clubhead speed, you will reach a point where you don't have enough clubhead speed for a given loft. At that point, you will see two different clubs with very similar distances. If a 4i is 21 degrees and a 3i is 18 degrees, if you don't have the clubhead speed to generate the necessary spin...that's where you either switch to single length hybrid or single length utility club. Or that's when you have to begin adding length. 

[ZincGolf]

On 3/14/2023 at 4:32 PM, AZGolfNut2 said:

 

As a custom clubmaker who has personally fitted and built several thousands of single length iron sets over the last 7-8 years, I find it highly unlikely that they've only sold 43,000 SL sets in that same amount of time. Especially not when Bryson won the U.S. Open using their single length irons during that time period. Maybe you meant 43,000 sets per year? Still, without citing a reputable source (other than "Cobra says") that number is basically worthless. 

do you fit and make OL sets for players throughout the US?

[AZGolfNut2]

On 5/24/2023 at 5:14 PM, ZincGolf said:

do you fit and make OL sets for players throughout the US?

 

Sure do! I sell them through my website as well as in my retail shop. 

[ARL67]

Also, the Edel SMS irons with their readily available weights in 2,4,6,8,10 grams lend themselves easily to an SL build.

[AZGolfNut2]

3 hours ago, ARL67 said:

Also, the Edel SMS irons with their readily available weights in 2,4,6,8,10 grams lend themselves easily to an SL build.

 

Not really because the stock weights are 2+2+8 grams, and the lightest weight you can get is 2g, which means the most weight that you can remove from any head is 6g (using a 2+2+2 configuration). Even with all of the weights removed, which would not be ideal, the most you'd be able to remove is 12g. And to make the 8, 9, PW & GW the weight of a 7-iron you'd need to remove 7g, 14g, 21g & 28g from each of those heads - which is not possible. 

Edited June 6, 2023 by AZGolfNut2

[ARL67]

^^^ I should have specified my playing length play - I build much shorter than 7i length.  My problem is usually not enough head weight in 7-6-5i depending on the head I’m using.   I’m SL 9-LW at 36.0" ungripped and don’t mind if LW / SW is heavier in swing-weight.  From there I go up in very short increments and stop at 5i, then hybrids from there.   It’s good to have options other than off the rack build methods ( 1/2” increments and 0.5* lie angle per club ).

Edited June 6, 2023 by ARL67

[AZGolfNut2]

8 hours ago, ARL67 said:

^^^ I should have specified my playing length play - I build much shorter than 7i length.  My problem is usually not enough head weight in 7-6-5i depending on the head I’m using.   I’m SL 9-LW at 36.0" ungripped and don’t mind if LW / SW is heavier in swing-weight.  From there I go up in very short increments and stop at 5i, then hybrids from there.   It’s good to have options other than off the rack build methods ( 1/2” increments and 0.5* lie angle per club ).

 

Well in that case you'd need add 12-14g to the 7i, 18-21g to the 6i, and 24-28g to the 5i to get them to a similar swingweight - and that can't be achieved with just the weights either since the most you can add to any head is 18g. And IMHO, making a set with different weights and different lengths as you described almost entirely defeats the purpose of a single length set which is: one length, one weight, one setup, one swing. Varying lengths and different swing weights will make all the clubs feel and swing differently from one another, albeit not quite as different as a traditional variable length set. But if it works for you, then by all means go with it. It just isn't a true "single length" set. 

[Houstonblue]

What doesn't work for one might be perfect for another. I play cobra one length irons and I love them.  I'm taller than average recreational lower back issues so having longer "short irons/wedges" makes the game physically more enjoyable.  I wish more manufacturers would enter the game. 

[Tiptx1122]

I hope not as who else uses them, Bryson is the only one on tour that I know

[Drrussell]

On 6/7/2023 at 12:48 AM, AZGolfNut2 said:

 

Well in that case you'd need add 12-14g to the 7i, 18-21g to the 6i, and 24-28g to the 5i to get them to a similar swingweight - and that can't be achieved with just the weights either since the most you can add to any head is 18g. And IMHO, making a set with different weights and different lengths as you described almost entirely defeats the purpose of a single length set which is: one length, one weight, one setup, one swing. Varying lengths and different swing weights will make all the clubs feel and swing differently from one another, albeit not quite as different as a traditional variable length set. But if it works for you, then by all means go with it. It just isn't a true "single length" set. 

This is exactly what I was looking at. I was going to do the following:

SMS 4: 10-10-10 - 271g (could add 3g tip weight in shaft 274).

SMS 5: 8-10-8 - 274g

SMS Pro 6: 8-10-8 274g

SMS Pro 7: 6-8-6 274g

SMS Pro 8: 2-8-2 274g

SMS Pro 9: 2-2-2 274g

SMS Pro P: 2-2-2 279g (could remove 2 of the weights 275g)

 

I was about to pull the trigger on this order but got concerned about the shaft selection. Without getting to try different shafts with this head configuration. They also don't allow you to purchase head alone. I was going to simply remove shafts from my Forged Tec irons and then go through testing. 

 

I am not convinced that the weight needs to be that precise. As an example, a friend of mine took his 4-5 irons and cut them off to be the same length as his 6. He didn't change the weight at all and didn't lose distance. I know of another guy that did that with wedges he made his 9, P, G, SW, LW all the same length (same as a standard 9). He also didn't change weights. Both of these guys are better than scratch. 

 

Their changes tell me that weights don't have to be the same and will make very little difference for some people. I figure the only way to do it is to test it myself. I just don't know if I want to drop the $ on Edel irons without knowing if they can work out because I went from a 12-13 handicap to a 2 since making the switch to single length. There is zero chance I would ever go back to variable length clubs. The biggest weakness in my game is 100% driver. If I could fix that problem, I would be in the 0-+ handicap. 

Edited August 14, 2023 by Drrussell

[AZGolfNut2]

On 8/14/2023 at 2:56 PM, Drrussell said:

The biggest weakness in my game is 100% driver. If I could fix that problem, I would be in the 0-+ handicap. 

 

Have you ever thought of trying a "single length" style driver? My last 2 driver have been made at the same length as my Wishon EQ1-NX single length fairway woods at 42", and while my driving may be down 10% or so my fairway accuracy is up 70-100%! I used to only hit maybe 5-7 out of 14 fairways in a round, now it's more like 10-12 - and the missed fairways are usually very slight misses. I'm currently using a Wishon 919THI weighted at 220g @ 42" length, and unless I leave the face slightly open at impact it's a laser beam straight up the middle 240-250 yards.