Putting using line on ball - how long did it take you to be comfortable?

[Zitlow]

Instead of obsessing whether a line is actually lined up on the line which may cause doubts this might make more sense. Don't worry, be happy. 

 

[bladehunter]

2 hours ago, getitdaily said:

During a round or just general practice? 

Practice. 

[bladehunter]

2 hours ago, Zitlow said:

Instead of obsessing whether a line is actually lined up on the line which may cause doubts this might make more sense. Don't worry, be happy. 

 

I may just draw that line on my ball in the morning just so I can smile each putt. I’ll see if it helps.  😂.  Can’t hurt.  

[getitdaily]

10 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Practice. 

Yeah. If I line up a straight putt and hit 10 of them from 5 feet I'll make 8 or 9. From 10 feet 6 to 8.

[Petethreeput]

2 hours ago, Zitlow said:

Instead of obsessing whether a line is actually lined up on the line which may cause doubts this might make more sense. Don't worry, be happy. 

 

That’s what my ball looked like when I played balata.

[bladehunter]

17 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

Yeah. If I line up a straight putt and hit 10 of them from 5 feet I'll make 8 or 9. From 10 feet 6 to 8.

My humble opinion is that you’re just like me. It’s not alignment. And it’s not stroke.  At least not to the point of not being serviceable.  It’s reading greens.  I know that’s my deal.  I had it confirmed by a very reputable putting teacher. Who also said that the grainy Bermuda I learned to putt on was a huge component to my reading deficit.   Because you can take any putt on these greens in dead of summer wheb the grain is worst and use the perfect putt apparatus and you can’t make but 3-4 out of 10 with it from the same spot.  The grain grabs some putts and not others and all it takes is one bump to knock it offline and then slow down where the grain grabs it and makes it a 10 inch miss. Not saying you have the grain issue i have.  
 

In my laypersons opinion, if you can stage and repeat a stroke 8-10 times , it’s not alignment or stroke.  It’s confidence in your read for line and speed.  Just food for thought.  It’s worth what I charge.  😂

[getitdaily]

19 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

My humble opinion is that you’re just like me. It’s not alignment. And it’s not stroke.  At least not to the point of not being serviceable.  It’s reading greens.  I know that’s my deal.  I had it confirmed by a very reputable putting teacher. Who also said that the grainy Bermuda I learned to putt on was a huge component to my reading deficit.   Because you can take any putt on these greens in dead of summer wheb the grain is worst and use the perfect putt apparatus and you can’t make but 3-4 out of 10 with it from the same spot.  The grain grabs some putts and not others and all it takes is one bump to knock it offline and then slow down where the grain grabs it and makes it a 10 inch miss. Not saying you have the grain issue i have.  
 

In my laypersons opinion, if you can stage and repeat a stroke 8-10 times , it’s not alignment or stroke.  It’s confidence in your read for line and speed.  Just food for thought.  It’s worth what I charge.  😂

I agree a good bit. I have been practicing with a level so I train my eyes to see certain % slope and know how much break is in the putt. That work has shown me that I tend to over read. 

 

So there is an element of reads and speed. And I do have the grain issue....Orlando. I know how to read grain but that's only 1 step.

 

However, I know my issues, right now, are tied to stroke. I know should focus on speed, but I can get past stroke mechanics right now.

[ThinkingPlus]

28 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

My humble opinion is that you’re just like me. It’s not alignment. And it’s not stroke.  At least not to the point of not being serviceable.  It’s reading greens.  I know that’s my deal.  I had it confirmed by a very reputable putting teacher. Who also said that the grainy Bermuda I learned to putt on was a huge component to my reading deficit.   Because you can take any putt on these greens in dead of summer wheb the grain is worst and use the perfect putt apparatus and you can’t make but 3-4 out of 10 with it from the same spot.  The grain grabs some putts and not others and all it takes is one bump to knock it offline and then slow down where the grain grabs it and makes it a 10 inch miss. Not saying you have the grain issue i have.  
 

In my laypersons opinion, if you can stage and repeat a stroke 8-10 times , it’s not alignment or stroke.  It’s confidence in your read for line and speed.  Just food for thought.  It’s worth what I charge.  😂

Reading greens is the most important and most underrated aspect of putting. Folks focus way too much on stroke.

[Zitlow]

1 hour ago, Petethreeput said:

That’s what my ball looked like when I played balata.

Maybe the universe was trying to tell you to mark a smile on your ball to make more putts. lol

[Obee]

1 hour ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Reading greens is the most important and most underrated aspect of putting. Folks focus way too much on stroke.

YES!!

 

And here is an interesting corollary to that: once I started to be able to roll my ball on my line, I started reading greens, much, much more accurately.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Reading greens is the most important and most underrated aspect of putting. Folks focus way too much on stroke.

 

Speed is, but… reading greens is a close second. Thing is, if you can control speed, green reading becomes a lot easier.

[ThinkingPlus]

2 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

Speed is, but… reading greens is a close second. Thing is, if you can control speed, green reading becomes a lot easier.

Not in my experience.

[ThinkingPlus]

9 minutes ago, Obee said:

YES!!

 

And here is an interesting corollary to that: once I started to be able to roll my ball on my line, I started reading greens, much, much more accurately.

Mostly, when I roll it well, my misses are just prettier.

[iacas]

28 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Not in my experience.

 

I teach AimPoint, so I understand how badly people read greens.

 

But reading greens relies on the ability to control the speed. And, you can misread a relatively long putt badly… and with good speed, you still have a tap-in.

 

Edited April 22, 2023 by iacas

[bladehunter]

24 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Not in my experience.

Agree -One word. Bermuda.  
 

 A read is a combo of line and speed.  if I can see the putts path , the speed to paint that picture is easy.  If I can’t see the path , there’s no way to calibrate for the speed of a picture I can’t see.  

the thing with speed on Bermuda with slope , you can make a putt from at least half the clock on almost all putts.  That’s alot of speed variation.  You can also miss low by a hair with perfect speed and have a 2 footer with outside the cup break coming back.  Every green around here is like that. Always defense.  Except the few that have bent.   

[ThinkingPlus]

5 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

I teach AimPoint, so I understand how badly people read greens.

 

But reading greens relies on the ability to control the speed. And, you can misread a relatively long putt badly… and with good speed, you still have a tap-in.

 

Bad read of line, but still a good read of speed. Reading greens includes both. I generally read speed well so I lag well. Large breaks are usually easier to read and you don't expect to make them anyway. One half to one cup of break inside of 20' is where the rubber meets the road.

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Reading greens includes both.

 

You've still gotta have the ability to hit it the intended distance.

 

2 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

I generally read speed well so I lag well.

 

As do I, but the people I teach… not so much. Speed is king in becoming a better putter. I don't plan on dying, but virtually speaking, I'd die on that hill.

[ThinkingPlus]

3 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Agree -One word. Bermuda.  
 

 A read is a combo of line and speed.  if I can see the putts path , the speed to paint that picture is easy.  If I can’t see the path , there’s no way to calibrate for the speed of a picture I can’t see.  

the thing with speed on Bermuda with slope , you can make a putt from at least half the clock on almost all putts.  That’s alot of speed variation.  You can also miss low by a hair with perfect speed and have a 2 footer with outside the cup break coming back.  Every green around here is like that. Always defense.  Except the few that have bent.   

Most of the places around here don't have much grain. Lots of subtle putts that are a little bumpy. Fast enough you can't ram them, but they bounce offline with dying speed. Frustrating. 

[ThinkingPlus]

2 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

You've still gotta have the ability to hit it the intended distance.

 

 

As do I, but the people I teach… not so much. Speed is king in becoming a better putter. I don't plan on dying, but virtually speaking, I'd die on that hill.

OK. To me hitting the correct distance if I have read the speed correctly isn't that difficult. However, I don't play super challenging greens so my perspective may not be the best.

[getitdaily]

5 hours ago, iacas said:

 

You've still gotta have the ability to hit it the intended distance.

 

 

As do I, but the people I teach… not so much. Speed is king in becoming a better putter. I don't plan on dying, but virtually speaking, I'd die on that hill.

I agree. I read greens well. But I can't get away from stroke mechanics when I play and speed control is my biggest issue. 

[iceman1118]

Timely thread. We have all been down this road too many times. OP I am exactly like you. Strike it well, then have 39 putts for a 79. Happened too many times to me. So I made my winter the winter of putting. I barely practiced full swing. I just hit a lot of putts every day. 
 

First thing was buying a new putter. I spent money on a Circle T. Now I have to use that and that only because I spent the money. No more putter fittings (I think it’s marketing nonsense), no more trips to the store to try new putters, and certainly no more buying new putters. I think I had 8 putters last season. No joke. That has to stop. 
 

Second was stop falling into the superstroke grip trap. They don’t work for me. Simple pistol grip just works for me. 
 

Third was full commitment to left hand low. I roll it infinitely better and speed is just more natural for me. 
 

Ok, now back on topic. My winter putting practice consisted of hitting STRAIGHT putts on my basement mat roughly 5 feet. I used a line on the ball to make sure I roll the ball end over end. My path and face were always a disaster. Learning to roll the line on the ball end over end is what everyone says to do, but I never actually committed to learning how to do it. I honestly have no idea how many putts I hit this winter, had to be 5000 or so. But repetition paid off and everything slowly started clicking. 
 

So far this season, my putting has dramatically improved. Yesterday was a so so ball striking day for me and the putter saved me. 75 with 32 putts. That never happens. Generally those type of ball striking days turn into 83-84. But something has changed and I know it and my playing partners know it. 
 

As for the line, here is what works FOR ME. Everyone is different, but so far this season I have learned two important things regarding the line. First, any type of lag putt I am 100% not using the line. All I want to do is focus on speed and general direction. It’s not 3 putt avoidance. All I am doing is try to hit a solid putt with the right speed. (Worked yesterday sank a 45 foot bomb for birdie for the first time in over a year). Line throws off my speed at longer distances. Second thing I learned is I want to use the line 100% of the time I feel a putt has a chance to go in. So basically anything inside 10-15 feet line is being used. Me hitting thousands of putts short distances in my basement using the line trained my brain to roll it straight. So on something I deem make able, I am using the line and rolling that ball straight. 
 

So long story short, it works for some and it doesn’t work for others. It works for me in situations. 
 

And OP, stop buying new putters, stop getting caught up in toe hang. Just learn to roll the ball and practice. Buy a putter you absolutely love the sight and feel of and never leave it. Learn to use that putter and that alone. Tiger and Stricker are perfect examples. That’s it. 
 

 

Edited April 22, 2023 by iceman1118

[getitdaily]

Just spent some morning practice time...This line thing is going to take time...line is in the hole and I pull it every other putt. 

[Cliffy2020]

1 hour ago, getitdaily said:

Just spent some morning practice time...This line thing is going to take time...line is in the hole and I pull it every other putt. 

Are you sure?  How are you measuring this?  What if you’re actually lined up a bit left and pushing every other putt into the hole while actually hitting the misses dead straight?

[getitdaily]

Just now, Cliffy2020 said:

Are you sure?  How are you measuring this?  What if you’re actually lined up a bit left and pushing every other putt into the hole while actually hitting the misses dead straight?

Ummm...line on ball is center hole and ball go left of hole. Pretty easy to measure.

[golfinbrad]

1 hour ago, getitdaily said:

Just spent some morning practice time...This line thing is going to take time...line is in the hole and I pull it every other putt. 

Might sounds silly, but get some foot spray and use it on the putter to find your contact point.  A pull could be alignment, stroke or contract point.  Every other putt makes me think it you might be missing the sweet spot or face rotation is a little off.  You'll figure it out.

[Cliffy2020]

10 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

Ummm...line on ball is center hole and ball go left of hole. Pretty easy to measure.

I thought so too until I actually started measuring it .

 

 

Edited April 22, 2023 by Cliffy2020

[Cliffy2020]

Standing over the ball - the line on the putter and ball looked aligned to me until a playing partner pointed out that they actually weren’t.  
 

I would have bet my children’s lives the putter and ball were pointed the same direction.  They obviously weren’t.  I would have told you (and anybody else) I was pulling my putts that I missed when in reality I was actually pushing the “makes” and hitting the misses straight.  Thousands of reps ingraining a stroke that was misaligned from the start.

[bluedot]

18 hours ago, PNWGuy said:

 

That's an intersting take.  I know you are pretty good with face on putting...  Do you stand behind the ball and line up the alignment line on your BG F22 with the hole or do you simply use your eyes at address?  I'm not challenging your statement, I'm just intersted how you do it.

Ok, long answer.

 

There have been three "me's" with putting.

 

1. 50+ years as a conventional, right handed golfer but VERY left eye dominant.  I'm a practice fanatic, and I worked REALLY hard to make the line work for me, but it looked so tilted and aimed left that it was too distracting and I just couldn't make a good stroke.  You, and others, will have to trust me when I say that I put in a zillion reps trying to make the line work, simply because I wanted to make more putts and it made such sense to me.  I suspect now that the heavy left eye dominance thing was the heart of the problem, though I didn't know that at the time, and can't prove it now.

 

2. The second "me" started putting face on in the spring of 2015, not as a yip cure or because I was a bad putter, but just to see if I could find a way to make more putts.  I was 62 at the time, and figured I wasn't going to hit the ball any farther (which in general means not closer to the pin, either).  During the early days of this conversion, I talked with Juan Elizondo, a putting instructor who works with Tour pros and who made the putter I was using at the time.  He asked me about the line, and I told him I had tried but just couldn't get it; he told me that 60% of the golfers he had worked with couldn't use it.

 

3. The third "me" is the current model, after a partially detached retina in my right eye 5 years ago, followed by 7 other procedures on that eye, along with some glaucoma and macular degeneration, with the result being that, while I'm not completely blind in that eye yet, it is pretty much useless for golf; my depth perception is just so screwed up now.  I had to go to AimPoint to deal with an inability to see slopes on green accurately.  This has been a process, and the way I putt now is to use AimPoint to get the amount of break, then use my putter and my left eye to pick out a spot a few inches in front of the ball as the starting line.  That spot is what I use to line up the line on my putter.  Though it is far less so than when I tried conventionally, even when I putt face on, the line just looks so haywire that it is a distraction rather than a help.

 

I'm an extreme case because I'm putting righthanded, and I'm so completely left eye dependent.  But degree of eye dominance is like other properties of vision; it varies greatly from person to person.  S2 Cognition is a visual test given to college and professional athletes; it shows that elite athletes have virtually no significant eye dominance, there are even a few that can use either as as dominant depending on the athletic "situation" in which they find themselves.  If it was possible to do some sort of a survey, I suspect (but can't prove, of course) that we might find that people who can't use the line have a high degree of eye dominance vs people who can use the line.

 

As I said, long answer.

 

[Soloman1]

Greens and maintenance have changed in the past decades, but older TV analysts still say things influencing players that are no longer valid, or were never true. The word just hasn’t gotten out.

 

— “Greens are getting faster during the day as they dry out.”

 

Greens never get faster. They can get firmer, affecting how the green accepts shots, but they do not putt faster, regardless of wind, humidity, etc. They always roll slower. Confirmed by every study.

 

— “The grain follows the sun.” (It’s called phototropism.)

 

With most greens now cut 0.125” or less, phototropism does not occur. Grain follows topography, gravity. If a green is about 9.5 or faster, grain is following the general topography of the green.

 

Mountains have no special force to repel a golf ball. It’s topography, gravity.

 

Streams and lakes have no special force to attract golf balls. In fact, most greens are designed to direct water and chemical runoff away from water near the greens.

 

Bermuda is not always pure and consistent throughout the green, so patches of poa annua may exist and that may affect roll or inconsistency which is mistakenly attributed to grain.

 

A general rule of thumb that I think is good for greens today is that grain affects speed more than break. There are different ways to read break, but the common thread is gravity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PracticeSwinger]

19 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

Greens and maintenance have changed in the past decades, but older TV analysts still say things influencing players that are no longer valid, or were never true. The word just hasn’t gotten out.

 

— “Greens are getting faster during the day as they dry out.”

 

Greens never get faster. They can get firmer, affecting how the green accepts shots, but they do not putt faster, regardless of wind, humidity, etc. They always roll slower. Confirmed by every study.

 

— “The grain follows the sun.” (It’s called phototropism.)

 

With most greens now cut 0.125” or less, phototropism does not occur. Grain follows topography, gravity. If a green is about 9.5 or faster, grain is following the general topography of the green.

 

Mountains have no special force to repel a golf ball. It’s topography, gravity.

 

Streams and lakes have no special force to attract golf balls. In fact, most greens are designed to direct water and chemical runoff away from water near the greens.

 

Bermuda is not always pure and consistent throughout the green, so patches of poa annua may exist and that may affect roll or inconsistency which is mistakenly attributed to grain.

 

A general rule of thumb that I think is good for greens today is that grain affects speed more than break. There are different ways to read break, but the common thread is gravity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Amen. Can this be pinned?