Technique for hitting high, spinny bunker shots

[syenkoc]

Removed.

Edited October 11, 2023 by syenkoc

[KMeloney]

I've had success with the idea of making the swing more V-shaped than U-shaped by really picking the club up quickly/vertically, and feeling like you're slamming it down right behind the ball.

[TLUBulldogGolf]

60 degree, very open face, a bit more wrist hinge than normal, and that feeling you describe with the club passing the hands but still hitting the sand with the back of the wedge and not the leading edge. Definitely takes some practice to become consistent with it. You could also consider a lower bounce wedge and hitting a bit closer to the ball, but this also requires a lot more precision. 

 

I would add that if the lie is not great you have to take your medicine as you won't be able to spin it as much. 

[tthomasgolfer605]

Feel like you're taking a full lob wedge swing with an open face. All the other stuff isn't necessary. Speed is key.

[Murrito]

the butterfly grip really helped me

[adamwittman]

Speed and path

[jomatty]

Given the results you are describing I would bet you are tilting your shoulders away from the target in transition.  When I need to hit a high spiny bunker shot I do the things your friend suggested but still feel like I am covering the ball with my chest, never letting my shoulders or spine angle tilt backwards at all.  I lay the lob wedge almost flat, lower and back up  my hands and swing around my body (lots of good bunker players don’t like the feeling of swinging around/draw type swings but I like being a little more shallow).  When you do it right it won’t dig and you will hit it nice and soft.  I’m certainly no expert though so ymmv

[getitdaily]

You want high or high and spinny?

 

If you want something high that lands fairly soft then setup normally and identify the face up. Then, push the handle down...straight down. About 4-6 inches. You'll have a tremendous amount of angle between shaft and wrists. From there, make an aggressive swing and the ball will come out high and soft.

 

If you want high and spinny, you have to open the face and hit close to the ball. That shot is very lie dependent.

[bmbsawy]

Unrelated but also super related- need to do some soul searching and decide whether playing super aggressive in match play is the optimal route. Scott Fawcett has a great example with Willy Z in the US JR of why playing your stock optimal strategy on approach is still the way to go in match play.

[Hawkeye77]

3 minutes ago, bmbsawy said:

Unrelated but also super related- need to do some soul searching and decide whether playing super aggressive in match play is the optimal route. Scott Fawcett has a great example with Willy Z in the US JR of why playing your stock optimal strategy on approach is still the way to go in match play.

Why is "super aggressive" driven by any of the formats you suggest? Doesn't make sense.

[bmbsawy]

5 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Why is "super aggressive" driven by any of the formats you suggest? Doesn't make sense.

What doesn’t make sense? OP suggests he plays rather aggressive (at least in match play) and short sides himself in bunkers. I am saying that smarter minds suggest more conservative targets are mathematically correct even in match play. 
 

Find Scott Fawcetts story I referred to in an interview and the context will make sense. Optimal targets for stroke play are the same as match play. Opponents position should not affect those targets

[Hawkeye77]

5 minutes ago, bmbsawy said:

What doesn’t make sense? OP suggests he plays rather aggressive (at least in match play) and short sides himself in bunkers. I am saying that smarter minds suggest more conservative targets are mathematically correct even in match play. 
 

Find Scott Fawcetts story I referred to in an interview and the context will make sense. Optimal targets for stroke play are the same as match play. Opponents position should not affect those targets

 

LOL, lost track of who was who and thought you were the OP reconsidering his own strategy of aggression most of the time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bmbsawy]

15 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

LOL, lost track of who was who and thought you were the OP reconsidering his own strategy of aggression most of the time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Got it! Sounds like we’re on exactly the same wavelength!

[Hawkeye77]

2 minutes ago, bmbsawy said:

Got it! Sounds like we’re on exactly the same wavelength!

And not short sided in that bunker!

[syenkoc]

Deleted

Edited October 11, 2023 by syenkoc

[syenkoc]

Removed.

Edited October 11, 2023 by syenkoc

[bmbsawy]

5 minutes ago, syenkoc said:

 

The club has an odd mix of players: There's a smallish group of super-elite players (several former D1 players, a few ex-PGA teaching pros, 1 ex-Latino America tour player) and a TON of the usual country club choppers. I'm playing off a 1.6 right now, and there's an odd gap of guys around my level -  basically there are more plus players than guys in the 0-2 range. In the club championship/gross matches, I'm inevitably up against some kid who is a +4.5 with legit 118 swing speed. Unless he has the shanks or is RAGINGLY hungover, my thought has always been to try to make birdie or die trying on every hole. There's no way to play the "par him to death" game - if I shoot even par, I'm going to get smoked 6&5.

 

Conversely, in the handicapped events, I'm always giving so many blows that, again, I have to basically make birds to win a hole. We had a mini three nine-hole tournament this past weekend, and in 2 of the matches, I was giving more than 14 strokes for 9 hole match! So I had to give 2 pops on 5 of the 9 holes. Now, those kinds of guys will obviously blow up now and again. But unless they are bipsic, I'm going to halve or loose with a par.

 

I've come to realize that it's actually a terrible handicap to have: The truly elite players still look at me as a weekend hack, but I can't beat any of the guys who struggle to break 100.

Sounds like an awesome club to be a part of man! There is more to life than your handicap and you’re still elite in respect to the majority of players.

 

problem is that as a 1.6 you don’t have the skill (no offense) to make those super aggressive shots pay off over the long term so you wind up making more bogies and losing to pars *in the long run*
 

I’m pulling numbers out of thin air but if you are legit “aggressive” with 5 iron and below- you can probably adjust your target selection and drop to a solid +1 or +2 in no time by eliminating bogies or worse. Tough club to be at but you can go win some local events if that’s what you’re hanging your hat on.

[Binson]

I do wonder as well.  If you ask the +4.5 or the other + handicaps, would they say their target in the same situation is at the pin?

 

Or, are they aiming at a target away from the short-sided bunkers and once in a while, their dispersion pattern yields a shot really close to the pin, with very little chance of it ever getting into the short-sided bunker.   

[betarhoalphadelta]

3 hours ago, syenkoc said:

 

Conversely, in the handicapped events, I'm always giving so many blows that, again, I have to basically make birds to win a hole. We had a mini three nine-hole tournament this past weekend, and in 2 of the matches, I was giving more than 14 strokes for 9 hole match! So I had to give 2 pops on 5 of the 9 holes. Now, those kinds of guys will obviously blow up now and again. But unless they are bipsic, I'm going to halve or loose with a par.

 

Yeah, it's rough to be low man. 

 

I used to play with a group where two of the players (neither me) were pretty good and pretty equal, and then two (incl me) were probably mid-20s to 30 index. We'd play skins and the two of us would get a stroke a hole. 

 

Problem is that the good players more often than not tied. Whereas what made us terrible players shoot high scores were the blow up holes--we were inconsistent but could drop a par (net bird) at pretty much any time. And with the odds of having two good players and two bad players, the bad players were more likely to have one or the other make a decent hole than either of the good players make birdie. 

 

So there were a lot of holes pushed, then either I or the other hack would swoop in and drop a par and collect 3-4 skins. 

 

Now I'm low man in my typical group (yeah, we suck), and I'm feeling the opposite side of the coin with skins. Especially when we get to the end of a round with a few skins on the line and I'm giving pops to everyone on holes 17 and 18. 

[MonteScheinblum]

No one is going to like this answer.

 

This question is exactly why golfers struggle. 
 

The shot you describe requires a lot of practice to get any level of “strokes gained” out of it.

 

One year on the korn ferry tour my sand saves would have been too 10 on the tour…and considering I was at best an average putter, playing out of the sand is something I excel at.  In the last 20 rounds I have attempted this shot only once.  
 

So you’re making a commitment to put precious practice time into a shot that’s not frequently used and often, you’re not going to  get it close anyway,  No matter how good you get at it.  Take the 8-10 footer and avoid disasters getting too cute.

 

Ams across the world would reduce their caps by 25% just accepting they hit a bad shot, take bogey and move on.

 

Rather, they try a tour shot above their pay grade and long term actually lose the math game.

[jimecherry]

7 hours ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

Feel like you're taking a full lob wedge swing with an open face. All the other stuff isn't necessary. Speed is key.

speed is key to spin but some of the other things your doing are to prevent hitting to much sand first

[CSagan]

 

been doing this since I saw the video and has helped a lot. 

[syenkoc]

Deleted

Edited October 11, 2023 by syenkoc

[MPStrat]

Check out short game chef Parker Mclachlans short game stuff. The basic bunker shot is particularly good. 

 

The setup is father from the ball with the hands lower. 
 

 

[dwboston]

1 hour ago, MPStrat said:

Check out short game chef Parker Mclachlans short game stuff. The basic bunker shot is particularly good. 

 

The setup is father from the ball with the hands lower. 
 

 

 

I agree.  His technique is pretty close to what Stan Utley has taught for years.

[nitram]

9 hours ago, dwboston said:

 

I agree.  His technique is pretty close to what Stan Utley has taught for years.

 . . . and Utley was taught by Tom Pernice, who is one of the best bunker players, ever.

[MPStrat]

10 hours ago, dwboston said:

 

I agree.  His technique is pretty close to what Stan Utley has taught for years.

Mclachlan says  he learned a lot of it working with Paul Azinger 

[b.mattay]

OP, I believe your friend told you the right thing. Shaft vertical to slightly backwards on all bunker shoes, face open, stance square and make sure you release it. Basically a normal golf swing with a few setup adjustments. 

Edited April 27, 2023 by b.mattay