I'm telling you guys...line on ball

[woodriff]

I’m not too technical when it comes to putting. But the line has helped me greatly. After I putt, that line will tell me either I misread a green, or my speed was off. 

[Kaddywompous]

Line on ball gang. I can’t trust my eyes! What looks straight is always just to the right in reality. Lining it up from behind and trusting that line is the only thing that saves me from my crooked vision. This is my first post, btw. Hello all!

[DLiver]

Line on the ball has transformed my putting. I resisted it for years because the line on the ball appeared to be so far off my intended targt line when I stood over the putt, but in reality the line on the ball wasn't off at all--I was just lined up wrong.

 

There are many many ways this has helped me, but the bottom line is I am making WAY more putts.

[JJFWebster]

I’ve tried using a line my last ~20 rounds but it’s not reducing my putts. I think it’s actually resulted in larger misses when greens are at higher/lower stimp than I’m used to. I am going to stop using it.
 

Pros

-Extremely confident in my stroke when the line looks correct at address

-Oddly satisfying watching the line roll perfectly into the cup

 

Cons

-Too much time spent trying to properly line everything up

-Distracted when the line is not accurate at address and I’m forced to adjust
-Less time spent judging weight because I’m so concerned with line

-Annoyed when my wedges smear the line and additionally annoyed when I am cleaning permanent marker off my club face

-No noticeable improvement vs picking a spot 1 - 2 feet ahead of the ball

[iacas]

Never mind.

Edited July 12, 2023 by iacas

[cav5]

It's not the line, most people just stink at putting. It's also not that hard to learn how to aim a putt

 

You'd probably putt just as well trusting yourself, and simply getting better at aiming over time instead of learning to trust the line which doesn't jive with anyone's eyes.

[getitdaily]

30 minutes ago, cav5 said:

It's not the line, most people just stink at putting. It's also not that hard to learn how to aim a putt

 

You'd probably putt just as well trusting yourself, and simply getting better at aiming over time instead of learning to trust the line which doesn't jive with anyone's eyes.

Would be a pretty cool thread topic...

[virtuoso]

The difference between being pretty darn good at putting and pretty mediocre at putting is about 1-1.5 degrees in face angle at impact. There is always a differential between address and impact, which complicates things, and most people can’t align the stripe on the ball to within a degree, so it probably serves more as a tool to expose how bad your green reading is versus anything else.

Edited July 12, 2023 by virtuoso

[nsxguy]

3 hours ago, getitdaily said:

Would be a pretty cool thread topic...

 

Already sorta is https://forums.golfwrx.com/topic/1783280-putter-shape-and-its-effects-on-aim-bias/

 

 

[kiawah]

Former college player (around scratch now) and here are my thoughts.

 

The line will help you IF: 

-you take the time to line it up in practice frequently, if not every time

-you are trying to learn how to roll the ball end over end in practice

-you are a deliberate player that does not easily feel rushed 

-you are patient enough to readjust any line you don't feel 100% certain about

-you already spend the majority of your time working on speed control 

-you integrate it into your pre shot routine AND are able to eliminate any decisionmaking about whether or not to use it. This was the hardest part for me.

 

The bottom line is, if you're seeking confidence with your putter, seeing the line wobble on short putts is not going to result in more putts finding the cup. It can be beneficial in differentiating between misreads and bad strokes, but in my experience, I developed the fault of looking up to see the roll I imparted, which hurt more than it helped. 

 

I think it's a great tool to check on your stroke on the putting green, but I'd ditch it the second it adds any apprehension or hesitation to your putting routine. My worst putting performances have almost invariably been caused by indecisiveness, with or without the line on the ball, so my best advice would be to do whatever helps you to pull the trigger and roll the ball on the line you see as often as possible. 

[getitdaily]

2 hours ago, kiawah said:

Former college player (around scratch now) and here are my thoughts.

 

The line will help you IF: 

-you take the time to line it up in practice frequently, if not every time

-you are trying to learn how to roll the ball end over end in practice

-you are a deliberate player that does not easily feel rushed 

-you are patient enough to readjust any line you don't feel 100% certain about

-you already spend the majority of your time working on speed control 

-you integrate it into your pre shot routine AND are able to eliminate any decisionmaking about whether or not to use it. This was the hardest part for me.

 

The bottom line is, if you're seeking confidence with your putter, seeing the line wobble on short putts is not going to result in more putts finding the cup. It can be beneficial in differentiating between misreads and bad strokes, but in my experience, I developed the fault of looking up to see the roll I imparted, which hurt more than it helped. 

 

I think it's a great tool to check on your stroke on the putting green, but I'd ditch it the second it adds any apprehension or hesitation to your putting routine. My worst putting performances have almost invariably been caused by indecisiveness, with or without the line on the ball, so my best advice would be to do whatever helps you to pull the trigger and roll the ball on the line you see as often as possible. 

Pretty much agree with this. I'll add that the line readjust should be really simple and be part of your practice. So that you don't take forever lining up, adjusting, etc...learn to line up and learn just how little you need to adjust  without having to re-measure. 

[kiawah]

1 minute ago, getitdaily said:

Pretty much agree with this. I'll add that the line readjust should be really simple and be part of your practice. So that you don't take forever lining up, adjusting, etc...learn to line up and learn just how little you need to adjust  without having to re-measure. 

Which reminds me: If you use the line, just leave the ball marker behind it when you step back to double check it's aimed where you want it. The worst is when you pick it up, put it in your pocket, realize you're aiming outside right on a left-to-righter, and then promptly lose the marker in your pocket for 30-45 seconds. 

[MelloYello]

YMMV, but in my experience there's no correlation between using a line and being a slow putter. If anything, systematizing the process of putting may actually result in a slightly faster putting routine. Nonetheless, usage of the line most certainly doesn't mean slowing down. 

 

The number of Pro's we see line up the ball perfectly shows how easily it can be done in a timely manner, even at impressive distances of 20-ft or more once a player is comfortable using the line. 

 

Far too much is made of the line resulting in slow play. For whatever reason, it's a common critique. And yet those same critics probably wouldn't insult the idea of using a pre-shot routine. Using the line is basically just putting's version of that. 

 

It's worth saying that slowness of the slowest putters is mostly a function of their obsessive green-reading and a general reluctance to step in and hit the dang putt. You can see how someone who simply uses "feel" and stands around waiting for inspiration to strike can actually be the true slow player. 

 

FWIW, the best putter I know is also painfully slow on the greens. He's just exceedingly deliberate. And no, he doesn't use a line.

 

The guys I know who use the line generally get in and get out pretty quickly. 

 

 

.

Edited July 13, 2023 by MelloYello

[MelloYello]

On 7/11/2023 at 10:41 PM, JJFWebster said:

I’ve tried using a line my last ~20 rounds but it’s not reducing my putts. I think it’s actually resulted in larger misses when greens are at higher/lower stimp than I’m used to. I am going to stop using it.
 

Pros

-Extremely confident in my stroke when the line looks correct at address

-Oddly satisfying watching the line roll perfectly into the cup

 

Cons

-Too much time spent trying to properly line everything up

-Distracted when the line is not accurate at address and I’m forced to adjust
-Less time spent judging weight because I’m so concerned with line

-Annoyed when my wedges smear the line and additionally annoyed when I am cleaning permanent marker off my club face

-No noticeable improvement vs picking a spot 1 - 2 feet ahead of the ball

 

 

I think evaluating whether or not the line works is pretty simple and can be done by working on some straight 10-footers. If you make more with the line (as opposed to not using the line) then it's obviously valuable. 

 

Missing putts with break is almost assuredly just a sign you're mis-reading the break. Given that judging break is the hardest element of putting (controlling distance on a straight putt being a much more straight-forward task) it's natural that the lining up of a ball won't be a cure-all for putting. 

 

But again, go back to that straight 10-foot putt. If you make more with the line, there's your proof. 

 

Working to improve with breaking putts is just hard. Putting is a complex mixture of green speed, slope approximation, break calculation, alignment, stroke and stress management. The line isn't going to help with that stuff. 

 

In short, the line helps ensure you achieve your desired start line. That's all.

 

You are in charge of whether that start line you've picked is correct. 

 

By using a line, a golfer stands to gain better control over one or two elements of putting that would otherwise be more difficult for most people: alignment & start line. 

 

But that doesn't mean putts will automatically start dropping because of the complexity of putting in general. Improving one element doesn't guarantee overall improvement, especially when the vast majority of putts aren't straight and are so dependent on the player's read.

 

As you improve your reads using a line will help ensure you get the most out of your effort. 

 

 

 

.

Edited July 13, 2023 by MelloYello

[Kuuuch]

47 minutes ago, MelloYello said:

YMMV, but in my experience there's no correlation between using a line and being a slow putter. If anything, systematizing the process of putting may actually result in a slightly faster putting routine. Nonetheless, usage of the line most certainly doesn't mean slowing down. 

 

The number of Pro's we see line up the ball perfectly shows how easily it can be done in a timely manner, even at impressive distances of 20-ft or more once a player is comfortable using the line. 

 

Far too much is made of the line resulting in slow play. For whatever reason, it's a common critique. And yet those same critics probably wouldn't insult the idea of using a pre-shot routine. Using the line is basically just putting's version of that. 

 

It's worth saying that slowness of the slowest putters is mostly a function of their obsessive green-reading and a general reluctance to step in and hit the dang putt. You can see how someone who simply uses "feel" and stands around waiting for inspiration to strike can actually be the true slow player. 

 

FWIW, the best putter I know is also painfully slow on the greens. He's just exceedingly deliberate. And no, he doesn't use a line.

 

The guys I know who use the line generally get in and get out pretty quickly. 

 

 

.

Daniel Berger is not one of them LOL

 

[getitdaily]

8 minutes ago, Kuuuch said:

Daniel Berger is not one of them LOL

 

Berger is one who doesn't need to use a line. His putting stroke looks like a foot pressure trace.

[RoyalTroon]

On 7/12/2023 at 8:24 AM, cav5 said:

It's not the line, most people just stink at putting. It's also not that hard to learn how to aim a putt

 

Some do not have the ability to simply walk in to how and where they need to be to do what they want to do.   Or maybe they do, but don't have the trust to do so. 

 

 

[IsThatGood17]

Always the line or Triple Track for me

[cav5]

16 hours ago, MelloYello said:

 

 

I think evaluating whether or not the line works is pretty simple and can be done by working on some straight 10-footers. If you make more with the line (as opposed to not using the line) then it's obviously valuable. 

 

Missing putts with break is almost assuredly just a sign you're mis-reading the break. Given that judging break is the hardest element of putting (controlling distance on a straight putt being a much more straight-forward task) it's natural that the lining up of a ball won't be a cure-all for putting. 

 

But again, go back to that straight 10-foot putt. If you make more with the line, there's your proof. 

 

Working to improve with breaking putts is just hard. Putting is a complex mixture of green speed, slope approximation, break calculation, alignment, stroke and stress management. The line isn't going to help with that stuff. 

 

In short, the line helps ensure you achieve your desired start line. That's all.

 

You are in charge of whether that start line you've picked is correct. 

 

By using a line, a golfer stands to gain better control over one or two elements of putting that would otherwise be more difficult for most people: alignment & start line. 

 

But that doesn't mean putts will automatically start dropping because of the complexity of putting in general. Improving one element doesn't guarantee overall improvement, especially when the vast majority of putts aren't straight and are so dependent on the player's read.

 

As you improve your reads using a line will help ensure you get the most out of your effort. 

 

 

 

.

 

this is all very true. my only hangup is that you are essentially adding a new skill, which is now learning to trust a line on the ball which looks crooked. I feel if you practice hitting your start line (intermediate or whatever) then you can just be confident in your aim

[cav5]

15 hours ago, BALLYBUNION said:

 

Some do not have the ability to simply walk in to how and where they need to be to do what they want to do.   Or maybe they do, but don't have the trust to do so. 

 

 

 

I totally get that. I just think its easier to learn that then fighting a crooked line. personally it should be banned IMO but thats a different topic lol

[MelloYello]

20 hours ago, Kuuuch said:

Daniel Berger is not one of them LOL

 

 

I mean, yeah, definitely. 

 

A hall-mark of good putters is that they tend to be really deliberate. I would venture a guess that Daniel Berger's slow-ish routine there has little to do with one method or the other. He's just the type of exceedingly deliberate player who wants to find a certain level of confidence / comfort before pulling the trigger.

 

I haven't found a good putter who isn't exceedingly detailed in his PSR and thus willing to spend a few extra moments making sure what they're committing to is correct.

 

I would note he was actually really quick to pull the trigger once he was happy with the alignment. 

 

And in the end, if the putts go in and you win tournaments (note he's leading that tournament) then you won't find players second-guessing themselves. If it works, the player will continue to be deliberate in their action thus slow / deliberate play has a way of reinforcing itself, especially among those for whom it pays off. 

 

I tend to be somewhat deliberate over certain types of shots, but the results justify themselves IMHO, else I wouldn't do it. Sometimes good golf does mean slowing down and being more detail-oriented. Increased pace-of-play does bump up against rushing and being sloppy at some point.

 

Quite frankly, there's probably a lot of golfers who won't take the time because they don't have the stomach for it. Being detail-oriented about anything is by definition hard. It means doing more work and feeling more stress for the sake of a better outcome. 

 

 

 

.

Edited July 14, 2023 by MelloYello

[North Butte]

It wouldn't work for me in any case but even if it did, I wouldn't do it. Not if it saved me five strokes per round. 

[MelloYello]

5 hours ago, cav5 said:

 

this is all very true. my only hangup is that you are essentially adding a new skill, which is now learning to trust a line on the ball which looks crooked. I feel if you practice hitting your start line (intermediate or whatever) then you can just be confident in your aim

 

100%

 

The fact some of the greatest putters I know don't use the line shows how that conventional approach is also valid. No surprise there of course. 

 

You're right, it is a new skill. Personally I find it to be a relatively simple skill though. I don't think it's hard for a human to line something up. Does it require focus? Yes and maybe that's where some don't like it. 

 

Again, I'd worry about whether those types of people are themselves corrupted by a general laziness that will probably undermine their putting at some point along the line anyway. 

 

Laziness and lack of focus has always been an issue for me. I'll say that without hesitation. I rush. I cut corners. I get sloppy sometimes. For me, a task like lining up the ball is kind of useful as it's pretty clearly defined. If I leave the ball poorly aligned, I know immediately I've been too lazy. 

 

 

 

.

Edited July 14, 2023 by MelloYello

[Anthony Stevens]

On 6/3/2023 at 6:07 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

Second the line is dependent on what speed you hit it.  When you line up the line you limit yourself to hitting it the speed that line necessitates or you’ll miss it.  You’re taking away your brains subconscious ability to adapt.  There is not one line to the hole.  There are multiple variables at work.

 

This seems backwards to me.

 

For any putt EXCEPT a short, straight, flat or slightly uphill, putt, I am trying to get the ball to stop 1 foot past the hole. That tells me what the line should be, working backwards so to speak. "Read determines start line", not "start line determines pace". Maybe I'm misunderstanding something.

 

Standing over a putt and mentally adjusting the speed at which I want to hit it seems...well, too variable for my tastes. Maybe some people can do it, but I can't.

 

My process:

1. Figure out the read
2. From the read, pick the starting line based on a pace that will get the ball to 1 foot past the hole
3. Put the ball down so the line matches that starting line
4. Stand over the putt and align the putter head to the line on the ball
5. Finally, it's all speed (feel) - how hard to hit it.

I have been using the line on the ball for a couple years and definitely feel it's a significant help.

[PracticeSwinger]

9 minutes ago, Anthony Stevens said:

 

This seems backwards to me.

 

For any putt EXCEPT a short, straight, flat or slightly uphill, putt, I am trying to get the ball to stop 1 foot past the hole. That tells me what the line should be, working backwards so to speak. "Read determines start line", not "start line determines pace". Maybe I'm misunderstanding something.

 

Standing over a putt and mentally adjusting the speed at which I want to hit it seems...well, too variable for my tastes. Maybe some people can do it, but I can't.

 

My process:

1. Figure out the read
2. From the read, pick the starting line based on a pace that will get the ball to 1 foot past the hole
3. Put the ball down so the line matches that starting line
4. Stand over the putt and align the putter head to the line on the ball
5. Finally, it's all speed (feel) - how hard to hit it.

I have been using the line on the ball for a couple years and definitely feel it's a significant help.

Shouting form the bleachers here, but my 2 cents is that read and pace have to be a combo (one can't be determined beofre or without the other), and that is what those advocating 'no line' are saying : that once you line it up, you lock yourself into a speed required to hole it - while you're able to find more 'combos' (read, pace) that hole it when you don't line it up, keeps you 'free' - my understanding

[Anthony Stevens]

1 minute ago, Varry_Hardon said:

Shouting form the bleachers here, but my 2 cents is that read and pace have to be a combo (one can't be determined beofre or without the other), and that is what those advocating 'no line' are saying : that once you line it up, you lock yourself into a speed required to hole it - while you're able to find more 'combos' (read, pace) that hole it when you don't line it up, keeps you 'free' - my understanding

Wouldn't each of those "combos" result in a different stopping point for the ball if it were to miss the cup?

 

Aggressive pace - finish 4 feet past (or whatever)

Dying pace - finish 2 inches past (or whatever)

 

I'm saying my pace (well actually, the desired stopping point of the ball, which in turn tells me what pace to hit the ball) determines my line, not the other way around.

[PracticeSwinger]

Just now, Anthony Stevens said:

Wouldn't each of those "combos" result in a different stopping point for the ball if it were to miss the cup?

 

Aggressive pace - finish 4 feet past (or whatever)

Dying pace - finish 2 inches past (or whatever)

 

I'm saying my pace (well actually, the desired stopping point of the ball, which in turn tells me what pace to hit the ball) determines my line, not the other way around.

What you're saying makes sense, just stating that your stopping point of the ball, is you that has already made a combination of line and pace. It's the outcome of line/pace combo and not the source (from my point of view, maybe others do it like you)

[kiawah]

1 hour ago, MelloYello said:

 

100%

 

The fact some of the greatest putters I know don't use the line shows how that conventional approach is also valid. No surprise there of course. 

 

You're right, it is a new skill. Personally I find it to be a relatively simple skill though. I don't think it's hard for a human to line something up. Does it require focus? Yes and maybe that's where some don't like it. 

 

Again, I'd worry about whether those types of people are themselves corrupted by a general laziness that will probably undermine their putting at some point along the line anyway. 

 

Laziness and lack of focus has always been an issue for me. I'll say that without hesitation. I rush. I cut corners. I get sloppy sometimes. For me, a task like lining up the ball is kind of useful as it's pretty clearly defined. If I leave the ball poorly aligned, I know immediately I've been too lazy. 

 

 

 

.

By that same token, something I worked on a little bit in competition was trying to manage my energy and direct my focus towards things that I can inherently control (attitude, completion of pre and post shot routine, stepping off if I am not committed, etc.) which has led me away from the line. For me personally, I found that committing to my putts and simply being decisive had a greater positive influence on my scoring and my ability to enjoy playing and practicing. 

 

In my experiences playing under pressure, line users might be expending unnecessary energy on making sure they line their ball up perfectly on every putt. I used to try to stay "on" for the entire duration of a round, but I've realized you have to save your energy between shots and even when selecting shots to avoid that dreaded state of "decision fatigue." Especially when putts aren't going in, having to constantly confirm and adjust the line on your ball can really suck the energy and "flow" out of you as the round goes on. 

 

Like you said, I still have to make a conscious effort to follow my routine and further ingrain the right habits, but I think that executing a simple routine thoughtfully helps me more than going through the motions of a lengthy process somewhere between 25-36 times throughout the course of a round.  

 

At the end of the day, eliminating things from my routine proved to be more helpful for me than the line, but I completely understand its merits and use it as a frame of reference when I practice regularly. 

[MelloYello]

On 7/14/2023 at 2:32 PM, kiawah said:

By that same token, something I worked on a little bit in competition was trying to manage my energy and direct my focus towards things that I can inherently control (attitude, completion of pre and post shot routine, stepping off if I am not committed, etc.) which has led me away from the line. For me personally, I found that committing to my putts and simply being decisive had a greater positive influence on my scoring and my ability to enjoy playing and practicing. 

 

In my experiences playing under pressure, line users might be expending unnecessary energy on making sure they line their ball up perfectly on every putt. I used to try to stay "on" for the entire duration of a round, but I've realized you have to save your energy between shots and even when selecting shots to avoid that dreaded state of "decision fatigue." Especially when putts aren't going in, having to constantly confirm and adjust the line on your ball can really suck the energy and "flow" out of you as the round goes on. 

 

Like you said, I still have to make a conscious effort to follow my routine and further ingrain the right habits, but I think that executing a simple routine thoughtfully helps me more than going through the motions of a lengthy process somewhere between 25-36 times throughout the course of a round.  

 

At the end of the day, eliminating things from my routine proved to be more helpful for me than the line, but I completely understand its merits and use it as a frame of reference when I practice regularly. 

 

I totally understand what you mean. I'm super focused on my focus, just like you are. I want to steer clear of that "decision fatigue" you alluded to so I'll do as much as I can to relax between moments of intensity. 

 

I think for me, I just like the ability to commit to a start line that I can see in the address position particularly on putts that I feel are all about start line because either they're relatively straight or because the ball will be dying one way or the other pretty dramatically at the hole and the lateral miss is therefore magnified. 

[wadesworld]

No matter whether the line is good or bad, there will always be those of us with knee problems who can't get down sufficiently to line up the line, so we'd better figure out how to be good without it.