I'm telling you guys...line on ball

[chigolfer1]

The thing is, when you get behind the ball and line up using the line (again, doesn't have to be exact, a lot of times I'll be like, Ok my line is pointing too far right but it still gives you the same gauge), when I get over the ball, I guess because of how I set up, most of the time it looks like the line is wrong aim wise.  But, it's not, that's just the parallax from how I stand, eye dominance or whatever.  So, as others have said, it almost does feel like cheating.  Now, I suppose I could figure out why I don't line up the putt correctly when standing over it but, short of that, I don't know why you wouldn't use the "cheat code" as long as you don't let it override your entire thought process and concentration on speed (which I don't).  Also, Nick Taylor uses the line with his T on his spider putter (and said it feels like a grid) and just hit a 72 footer to win his national championship, so case closed.   j/k 😉

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 13, 2023 by chigolfer1

[nsxguy]

1 hour ago, chigolfer1 said:

The thing is, when you get behind the ball and line up using the line (again, doesn't have to be exact, a lot of times I'll be like, Ok my line is pointing too far right but it still gives you the same gauge), when I get over the ball

 

This is the thing I can't wrap my head around.

 

The aiming mark/line/whatever your putter has is supposed to help the player in aligning properly.

 

The straight line on the ball is supposed to do the same thing and (in my mind) match exactly any alignment aids on the putter in order to direct the ball on that exact start line.

 

If the line is "wrong" based on how one sees the club/ball combo, how on earth can one strike the ball with any confidence ?

 

I'd rather have a totally white sphere in front of the alignment marks on the putter (if any of course). Or, if there are some sort of marks on the ball, them being on the back of the ball where the putter is supposed to strike. Either or both of those would be more acceptable (to ME) than a "misaligned" line on the ball.

 

Trying NOT to hit the ball exactly where the line on it is pointing makes no sense to me at all.

 

Wouldn't the putter with NO alignment marks at all be in a similar vein ? That is, nothing to "distract" the player ?

[getitdaily]

21 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

This is the thing I can't wrap my head around.

 

The aiming mark/line/whatever your putter has is supposed to help the player in aligning properly.

 

The straight line on the ball is supposed to do the same thing and (in my mind) match exactly any alignment aids on the putter in order to direct the ball on that exact start line.

 

If the line is "wrong" based on how one sees the club/ball combo, how on earth can one strike the ball with any confidence ?

 

I'd rather have a totally white sphere in front of the alignment marks on the putter (if any of course). Or, if there are some sort of marks on the ball, them being on the back of the ball where the putter is supposed to strike. Either or both of those would be more acceptable (to ME) than a "misaligned" line on the ball.

 

Trying NOT to hit the ball exactly where the line on it is pointing makes no sense to me at all.

 

Wouldn't the putter with NO alignment marks at all be in a similar vein ? That is, nothing to "distract" the player ?

Yeah, I don't employ that logic...using the line as a gauge. 

 

The line is for exactness, not "it's close, I'll adjust".

 

The putts where I still see wonkiness are putts that break left more than 2 balls outside the hole. The line still looks left to me. Those are the ones I practice the most. It also shows me that on left breakers, I still aim too far right and then pull across the ball. So I'm getting feedback that my stroke isn't the same on those as other putts. It's where my eyes dictate my stroke rather than my stroke being the same. 

[tatertot]

Guys at my course seem to really like 'em on 6 inchers ... they spend hours lining 'em up for triples and double pars.

[Pepperturbo]

If you want to putt better, get your eyes checked.  Too many people overlook the effect their EYES have over reading the actual line, surface & undulations.

[ProStryker]

I try to use a line, but I have realized that I don’t read enough break when I am lining up the ball squatting behind it.  I then stand over the ball, and immediately feel that I didn’t give the line on the ball enough break. I always see more break when standing over the ball than when behind it.. Weird.  I have been toying with the idea of putting a sharpie dot on top of the ball while putting, so that I have something to focus on, so that my eyes don’t accidentally track back with the putter head

[TourSpoon]

49 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

Trying NOT to hit the ball exactly where the line on it is pointing makes no sense to me at all.

 

Wouldn't the putter with NO alignment marks at all be in a similar vein ? That is, nothing to "distract" the player ?

Not always...If I use the line on say a 15 footer I may put the line in the center of the hole or on something breaking on the high edge. I know where the target is and can hit it below the line, on the line, or above the line. The point is once I am set up, the line is ignored and speed is the only consideration. Even when the line is perfect I ignore it because its all speed from there. Speed is king. 

 

 

 

 

[chigolfer1]

1 hour ago, nsxguy said:

 

This is the thing I can't wrap my head around.

 

The aiming mark/line/whatever your putter has is supposed to help the player in aligning properly.

 

The straight line on the ball is supposed to do the same thing and (in my mind) match exactly any alignment aids on the putter in order to direct the ball on that exact start line.

 

If the line is "wrong" based on how one sees the club/ball combo, how on earth can one strike the ball with any confidence ?

 

I'd rather have a totally white sphere in front of the alignment marks on the putter (if any of course). Or, if there are some sort of marks on the ball, them being on the back of the ball where the putter is supposed to strike. Either or both of those would be more acceptable (to ME) than a "misaligned" line on the ball.

 

Trying NOT to hit the ball exactly where the line on it is pointing makes no sense to me at all.

 

Wouldn't the putter with NO alignment marks at all be in a similar vein ? That is, nothing to "distract" the player ?

 

I'm not sure why it makes no sense.  If I know how much I need to adjust, then its the same as having the line exactly lined up and, more importantly, I don't need to spend a minute getting the line EXACTLY right.   I'm also mostly talking about longer putts where total preciseness isn't as important anyway.

[nsxguy]

8 minutes ago, chigolfer1 said:

 

I'm not sure why it makes no sense.  If I know how much I need to adjust, then its the same as having the line exactly lined up and, more importantly, I don't need to spend a minute getting the line EXACTLY right.   I'm also mostly talking about longer putts where total preciseness isn't as important anyway.

 

OK then, but I don't know how I can explain it any better. The point is I shouldn't have to adjust - that's the point of the line in the first place.

 

That said, I guess I could live with your "philosophy" that the further I am away from the hole the less the line matters; but then why use it ?

 

Since the chances of a "make" get smaller and smaller the further you get from the hole, I can see the line being close as "good enough".  But, again, why bother ?

 

[chigolfer1]

2 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

OK then, but I don't know how I can explain it any better. The point is I shouldn't have to adjust - that's the point of the line in the first place.

 

That said, I guess I could live with your "philosophy" that the further I am away from the hole the less the line matters; but then why use it ?

 

Since the chances of a "make" get smaller and smaller the further you get from the hole, I can see the line being close as "good enough".  But, again, why bother ?

 

 

Maybe there is a misconception of adjust.  Me knowing the line is pointed x degrees (although I don't sit there and calculate degrees) is just as good as having it pointed exactly right.   It's a way of not spending a minute getting it precise.  Also keep in mind I"m not exactly a tourney golfer for context.

[nsxguy]

Just now, chigolfer1 said:

 

Maybe there is a misconception of adjust.  Me knowing the line is pointed x degrees (although I don't sit there and calculate degrees) is just as good as having it pointed exactly right.   It's a way of not spending a minute getting it precise.  Also keep in mind I"m not exactly a tourney golfer for context.

 

Fair enough. If it works for you, then by all means,,,,,,,,,, 👍

[Pepperturbo]

34 minutes ago, chigolfer1 said:

 

I'm not sure why it makes no sense.  If I know how much I need to adjust, then its the same as having the line exactly lined up and, more importantly, I don't need to spend a minute getting the line EXACTLY right.   I'm also mostly talking about longer putts where total preciseness isn't as important anyway.

My first thought is a lack of attention to details.  People improve when they embrace details.  Thing is, many people don't like details because in golf, details need to be repetitious too.  It's in repetition that skill surfaces.  Being as precise as possible is important, if you want to improve your chances of making that long putt. 

 

Last week I was on a Par 5 green in 3, looking at 50' + putt over a left nose and break right, downhill putt.  I knew it was a low percentage putt, yet needed it to keep my momentum and win the hole, so took my time to focus on the apex, grain change, sprinkler wet spot and speed of putt; made the putt.  Went to #17 2 up and eventually won.  Just saying... 🙂

 

Edited June 13, 2023 by Pepperturbo

[iacas]

2 hours ago, nsxguy said:

Wouldn't the putter with NO alignment marks at all be in a similar vein ? That is, nothing to "distract" the player ?

 

No, as I understand things… that's not how your eyes (or brain, or whatever) works.

 

I've fit a lot of people with Edel putters and I tell this story pretty frequently. It's illustrative of the importance of "decorations" and shapes and lines etc. on putters.

 

With an Anser style putter (it was an Odyssey, but just an Anser-like blade putter), with a line on the top, a player consistently aimed 8" right of a hole from 8' (effectively a 16' putt as the laser travels from the hole and back to the screen behind the hole after bouncing off the putter face).

 

With a dot on top, he lined up 2" right of the hole.

 

With nothing, he lined up dead in the middle.

 

In every case, he was trying to line his putter up straight into the middle of the hole.

 

"Decorations" on your putter - lines, the shape of the hosel, the loft (i.e. how much of the putter face you see), the shape of the head, everything all has an effect on where you line your putter up.

 

That's why sometimes a putter switch helps you putt better. If you're missing right because you're blocking putts, a putter the you aim to the left might work for awhile. Or vice versa. But IMO it's not a long-term solution, so you might be switching putters in a month.

Edited June 13, 2023 by iacas

[nsxguy]

3 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

No, that's not how your eyes (or brain, or whatever) works.

 

I've fit a lot of people with Edel putters and I tell this story pretty frequently.

 

With an Anser style putter (it was an Odyssey, but just an Anser-like blade putter), with a line on the top, a player consistently aimed 8" right of a hole from 8' (effectively a 16' putt as the laser travels from the hole and back to the screen behind the hole after bouncing off the putter face).

 

With a dot on top, he lined up 2" right of the hole.

 

With nothing, he lined up dead in the middle.

 

In every case, he was trying to line his putter up straight into the middle of the hole.

 

"Decorations" on your putter - lines, the shape of the hosel, the loft (i.e. how much of the putter face you see), the shape of the head, everything all has an effect on where you line your putter up.

 

That's why sometimes a putter switch helps you putt better. If you're missing right because you're blocking putts, a putter the you aim to the left might work for awhile. Or vice versa. But IMO it's not a long-term solution, so you might be switching putters in a month.

 

Thanks.

 

There's (what I consider) a terrific post/thread about putter shape/design/whatever here on WRX that I've linked to from time to time when people ask about this subject.

 

One of these days I'm going to get to test that stuff - with a laser. 👍

 

Putter Shape

 

[iacas]

12 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

Putter Shape

 

It's one of my open tabs. Has been for weeks; just haven't had the chance to peruse it yet.

[chigolfer1]

1 hour ago, Pepperturbo said:

My first thought is a lack of attention to details.  People improve when they embrace details.  Thing is, many people don't like details because in golf, details need to be repetitious too.  It's in repetition that skill surfaces.  Being as precise as possible is important, if you want to improve your chances of making that long putt. 

 

Last week I was on a Par 5 green in 3, looking at 50' + putt over a left nose and break right, downhill putt.  I knew it was a low percentage putt, yet needed it to keep my momentum and win the hole, so took my time to focus on the apex, grain change, sprinkler wet spot and speed of putt; made the putt.  Went to #17 2 up and eventually won.  Just saying... 🙂

 

 

it has more to do with not thinking I need to spend an extra 40 seconds on a muni with my friends lining up the line EXACTLY.   🙂  Also, we are comparing this to people that don't use the line at all, which seems like the logic is you're arguing they really don't embrace details.

Edited June 13, 2023 by chigolfer1

[chigolfer1]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

 

 

 

With an Anser style putter (it was an Odyssey, but just an Anser-like blade putter), with a line on the top, a player consistently aimed 8" right of a hole from 8' (effectively a 16' putt as the laser travels from the hole and back to the screen behind the hole after bouncing off the putter face).

 

With a dot on top, he lined up 2" right of the hole.

 

With nothing, he lined up dead in the middle.

 

In every case, he was trying to line his putter up straight into the middle of the hole.

 

 

 

wow, now this is interesting and something I've never seen before.

[DLiver]

...

Edited July 8, 2023 by DLiver

[Soloman1]

Alignment at address has little to do with alignment at impact. If you want to use anecdotal stories as evidence, here’s one.

 

Tiger Woods at his peak consistently aligned the face substantially right of his intended start line at address, but the face was consistently slightly closed at impact. His path was consistently square at impact.

 

He was consistently consistent.

 

 

[bluedot]

25 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

Alignment at address has little to do with alignment at impact. If you want to use anecdotal stories as evidence, here’s one.

 

Tiger Woods at his peak consistently aligned the face substantially right of his intended start line at address, but the face was consistently slightly closed at impact. His path was consistently square at impact.

 

He was consistently consistent.

 

 

Link?  I’ve never heard or read this before.  Not saying it isn’t so, just that I’ve never seen it before.

[iacas]

8 minutes ago, bluedot said:

Link?  I’ve never heard or read this before.  Not saying it isn’t so, just that I’ve never seen it before.

 

Pretty well known. There are a few SAM reports out there.

 

Consistencies were in the 90s for all.

[Soloman1]

9 minutes ago, bluedot said:

Link?  I’ve never heard or read this before.  Not saying it isn’t so, just that I’ve never seen it before.

 

Sure.

 

Here’s the overview of his numbers:

 

 

[bluedot]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

 

Pretty well known. There are a few SAM reports out there.

 

Consistencies were in the 90s for all.

Interesting; thanks!

[bluedot]

1 hour ago, Soloman1 said:

 

Sure.

 

Here’s the overview of his numbers:

 

 

Thanks!

[Soloman1]

57 minutes ago, bluedot said:

Thanks!

 

You’re welcome.

[huskydawg]

On 7/9/2023 at 8:53 PM, Soloman1 said:

Alignment at address has little to do with alignment at impact. If you want to use anecdotal stories as evidence, here’s one.

 

Tiger Woods at his peak consistently aligned the face substantially right of his intended start line at address, but the face was consistently slightly closed at impact. His path was consistently square at impact.

 

He was consistently consistent.

 

 

I asked this question before but I don't think I got many responses.  Is this similar to Nicklaus when he said he opened the blade a bit at address on hit full shots knowing that address is slightly behind the point of ball contact?  Did Nicklaus do that for putts as well?

[Soloman1]

5 hours ago, huskydawg said:

I asked this question before but I don't think I got many responses.  Is this similar to Nicklaus when he said he opened the blade a bit at address on hit full shots knowing that address is slightly behind the point of ball contact?  Did Nicklaus do that for putts as well?

 

I don’t know, but maybe someone does…

[Kuuuch]

OP I’m sorry but I’m glad this topic came about because I actually stopped using a line on the ball after seeing iacas and montes comments and I’ve never putted better 😂

 

Had a career best Sunday during 13 holes (got stormed out on hole 14) but had 8 1 putts for the day. The amount of time saved on the putting green is worth the switch for me. 
 

To each their own. Of the 2 Korn ferry guys I play regularly with, one hates a line and the other uses it for every putt 🤷🏻‍♂️

[getitdaily]

17 minutes ago, Kuuuch said:

OP I’m sorry but I’m glad this topic came about because I actually stopped using a line on the ball after seeing iacas and montes comments and I’ve never putted better 😂

 

Had a career best Sunday during 13 holes (got stormed out on hole 14) but had 8 1 putts for the day. The amount of time saved on the putting green is worth the switch for me. 
 

To each their own. Of the 2 Korn ferry guys I play regularly with, one hates a line and the other uses it for every putt 🤷🏻‍♂️

I get what both iacas and monte are stating. You can aim offline and make putts. And, perhaps, for folks who have marginal consistency numbers it's better to not use the line. Idk.

 

Taking alignment out of the equation does require a fairly square to path at impact and a path that isn't wildly left or right. So it does require consistency in stroke dynamics.

 

But that's also why I prefer it now. It tells me when my stroke has issues. I can then adjust with what I know causes the issue presented, in my stroke. 

 

For me, the feedback is key. I also don't use the line for putts that break more than about 2 balls to the left or more than 3-4 balls to the right. 

[cardoustie]

I’m not a line guy … my friends say I’m a dirty slu_ty putter 😛

 

I do well on short putts tracking the face of the putter to my start line

 

i will throw this into the mix… leading putter a handful of years back on Champions Tour put his line directly at the hole … not on his intended aims line of start line