I'm telling you guys...line on ball

[KMeloney]

I would love to NOT use the line. But I'd need someone to help me figure out how to do it.

 

I've got astigmatism in my right eye (born with it) that can't be corrected. I only see peripherally out of my right eye. (If I close my good eye, then I can see out of my right eye, but my vision is blurry.) Otherwise, my brain just uses my left eye to see things clearly.

 

So... As a righty with left-by-default-eye-dominance, I have trouble lining up putts without a line on the ball. Heck, I have trouble lining myself up with driver for the same reasons. When I stand along side of the ball, I'm triangulating my vision out to my target with just one eye, really. That has typically resulted in my lining up well right of my target.

 

I'd need some real putting help to understand how, exactly, to line my putter up to the line I want to hit without using the line on the ball.

 

 

[vandyfan]

Well, I just had a pretty poor putting performance yesterday (was -3.90 in strokes gained putting vs a scratch player and all other categories were + or even) so I may as well try this. I have been lining up the logo for putts for the last 2 years probably. Maybe I just need to be freed up a little. 

[athomp70]

I'm surprised that nobody's mentioned one of the greatest pressure putters of all time, tiger woods. Always used a line

[iacas]

@MelloYello, if you're going to ignore me as you promised, then actually ignore me. This passive aggressive sub-tweeting is particularly amusing, though. 🤣 This will be my last response to you, as I actually ignore people on my ignore lists. And if you think a comment in the future is directed at you, it's not. I don't sub-tweet and I won't imply anything, either.

 

Since we're talking about relevant stuff again… I'm back in. For now.

 

7 hours ago, getitdaily said:

1. People don't use it correctly 

2. It slows down play

 

I don't think that's an accurate summary of my position here, but it's not horribly off-base, either.

 

I've tested a bunch of golfers on this type of stuff. Most don't aim it within the hole from eight to ten feet (that's only about a degree offline). And by "most" I don't just mean 51%… And these are people who use the line, and are given the time to line it up, in a controlled environment on a dead straight putt. As I said, I've found that it's highly sensitive to your dominant eye position relative to the ball - a little left, a little right, or maybe you don't bend over as far, or put it down a little farther ahead of where you normally do it… etc.

 

And it ultimately just adds a step. You line the line up on your ball to your intended start line… but you still have to line your putter up, because that's what actually matters - where your putter is. Because we also know that several really good putters aim well to the right or left (with their putter at setup), then compensate during the stroke to deliver a putter face that's pointing where they want it to point.

 

Loren Roberts at setup:

 

 

Loren Roberts at impact:

 

 

So should Loren use the line on the ball and try to aim his putter 1° right of the line? Should he point the line on the ball 1° right? Or does he think he's lining his putter up square, and has learned to close the face about a degree so it's square when he hits it? What's he to do with a line - it could actually make him doubt and question things, no?

 

So it's not as simple as you're making it out to be. Loren does what's actually important: hit the ball with a square putter face.

 

Putting can be an athletic thing, and the line on the ball often takes away a little of the athleticism. Putts can go in on a variety of lines, and even if I've AimPointed a 2% putt, and have that exact spot picked out, I might want to change it to a 1.85% read or something, and then the line is NOT where I want to aim. Or let's say I want to hit the putt a different speed than I initially thought - the line has already locked me in to putting it at that original speed.

 

I've had students who line their ball up, and are really confident in their line from behind, but then get over the ball and think it feels left or right. Odds are they're not putting their eyes in their normal spot or something, and they should probably just trust their line, but what are they to do in that moment? Confusion and doubt aren't great when you've got to hit a putt.

 

So, my list of reasons why people should consider NOT using the line includes (but isn't limited to):

• Most people don't aim the line where they think they are. They're off a decent amount.
• All else equal, it's slow(er) than just setting the ball down.
• You still have to line the putter up to where you want to hit it… the line on the ball is at best a help in lining the putter up. And because it's so small and close to the putter, the error can be magnified. I'm reducing alignment errors by lining my putter up to a spot "out there" (out by the hole or something) rather than "right here" (the ball).
• It has potential to "lock you in" to a certain line and/or has potential to remove athleticism or add some doubt.
• I've not talked with many other people who have actually studied this type of thing who endorse using the line on your ball. Most will say something like…

This: in the words of a PhD I just asked: "Might help some. Probably more for comfort and confidence than actual alignment help." "Might" and "some," eh? Feels a bit different than "Figure out how to use it. Figure out why you can't."

 

And again… if it helps your confidence and/or comfort, cool. Go for it.

 

13 minutes ago, athomp70 said:

I'm surprised that nobody's mentioned one of the greatest pressure putters of all time, tiger woods. Always used a line

 

Tiger often putts with the line on the front or bottom, kinda out of the way. He doesn't put it on top as often as you may think. Plus, he generally aims his putter well to the right (which is why he talks so much about "releasing the toe").

 

Like I've said, @getitdaily… if it works for you, cool. Good for you. It doesn't for everyone. And I think people are often worse with it than they know or realize. But maybe the "confidence" it gives them makes up for it a little bit. Or maybe it's a placebo.

 

7 hours ago, getitdaily said:

If every beneficial process was skipped because people don't do it right then there would be no instruction.

 

Assumes facts not in evidence, your honor. 😄

 

3 hours ago, wagolfer7 said:

I don't think the pro's are knocking the line at all. They are just being realistic.  The line is not a cure.  It's not a magic fix. It can be a helpful aid and maybe bring confidence in your line as well as alignment.  But it can also make you worse by trying to focus too much on the line.

 

That says it pretty well, yeah.

 

If it works for you, or you think it works for you, by all means, continue using the line.

 

3 hours ago, wagolfer7 said:

I don't think the pro's are knocking the line at all. They are just being realistic. The line is not a cure. It's not a magic fix. It can be a helpful aid and maybe bring confidence in your line as well as alignment. But it can also make you worse by trying to focus too much on the line.

…

How to use the line and using the line would be way down the priority list for good putting in my opinion.  Again I use it and I'd recommend it for many.  But it's certainly not something on it's own that will dramatically make you a better putter consistently.

 

Yep.

 

On 6/3/2023 at 9:07 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

First, statistically golfers of all skill levels just don’t make that many putts.  Putting better is all about 3 putt avoidance and that’s getting the speed right. The more you focus on line, the less you’re focusing on speed.  
 

Second the line is dependent on what speed you hit it. When you line up the line you limit yourself to hitting it the speed that line necessitates or you’ll miss it. You’re taking away your brains subconscious ability to adapt.  There is not one line to the hole. There are multiple variables at work.

 

I have done this test so many times with so many people.

…

A destroys B by such a wide margin it’s  comical.  

 

On 6/3/2023 at 9:15 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

If you’re horrific at lining up 3-5 footers, even you you use the line, you need to practice lining up better.  I’m not saying lining up the line is bad for everyone at all times, but it has many limits.  If you can line up the line and then hit a solid putt without steering the line on your putter to the line on the ball, you’re a better man than I am. 
 

I'm saying for most golfers it has poor long term success.

 

On 6/3/2023 at 10:12 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

People get mad at me when I say something that goes against what they believe works for them or is correct.  This is never about I’m smart and you’re dumb and do what I say. That’s ridiculous. 
 

Would it be helpful if I just agreed with every cliche and narrative?

 

All I’m doing on this forum is offering my observations of what I have seen from breaking par and playing high level golf for 40 years, seeing more data on what golfers golfers do than most and having given 10’s of thousands of lessons in person online and on the course. 
 

Is what I say right for everyone?  Hell no, but discounting my observations considering my experience is pretty short sighted just because it offends one’s cognitive dissonance.

 

Take what I've said above and consider it. Or don't. Really won't affect my day much at all. 😀 You're sharing your experiences. I'm sharing mine. Monte is sharing his.

[getitdaily]

14 minutes ago, iacas said:

@MelloYello, if you're going to ignore me as you promised, then actually ignore me. This passive aggressive sub-tweeting is particularly amusing, though. 🤣 This will be my last response to you, as I actually ignore people on my ignore lists. And if you think a comment in the future is directed at you, it's not. I don't sub-tweet and I won't imply anything, either.

 

Since we're talking about relevant stuff again… I'm back in. For now.

 

 

I don't think that's an accurate summary of my position here, but it's not horribly off-base, either.

 

I've tested a bunch of golfers on this type of stuff. Most don't aim it within the hole from eight to ten feet (that's only about a degree offline). And by "most" I don't just mean 51%… And these are people who use the line, and are given the time to line it up, in a controlled environment on a dead straight putt. As I said, I've found that it's highly sensitive to your dominant eye position relative to the ball - a little left, a little right, or maybe you don't bend over as far, or put it down a little farther ahead of where you normally do it… etc.

 

And it ultimately just adds a step. You line the line up on your ball to your intended start line… but you still have to line your putter up, because that's what actually matters - where your putter is. Because we also know that several really good putters aim well to the right or left (with their putter at setup), then compensate during the stroke to deliver a putter face that's pointing where they want it to point.

 

Loren Roberts at setup:

 

 

Loren Roberts at impact:

 

 

So should Loren use the line on the ball and try to aim his putter 1° right of the line? Should he point the line on the ball 1° right? Or does he think he's lining his putter up square, and has learned to close the face about a degree so it's square when he hits it? What's he to do with a line - it could actually make him doubt and question things, no?

 

So it's not as simple as you're making it out to be. Loren does what's actually important: hit the ball with a square putter face.

 

Putting can be an athletic thing, and the line on the ball often takes away a little of the athleticism. Putts can go in on a variety of lines, and even if I've AimPointed a 2% putt, and have that exact spot picked out, I might want to change it to a 1.85% read or something, and then the line is NOT where I want to aim. Or let's say I want to hit the putt a different speed than I initially thought - the line has already locked me in to putting it at that original speed.

 

I've had students who line their ball up, and are really confident in their line from behind, but then get over the ball and think it feels left or right. Odds are they're not putting their eyes in their normal spot or something, and they should probably just trust their line, but what are they to do in that moment? Confusion and doubt aren't great when you've got to hit a putt.

 

So, my list of reasons why people should consider NOT using the line includes (but isn't limited to):

• Most people don't aim the line where they think they are. They're off a decent amount.
• All else equal, it's slow(er) than just setting the ball down.
• You still have to line the putter up to where you want to hit it… the line on the ball is at best a help in lining the putter up. And because it's so small and close to the putter, the error can be magnified. I'm reducing alignment errors by lining my putter up to a spot "out there" (out by the hole or something) rather than "right here" (the ball).
• It has potential to "lock you in" to a certain line and/or has potential to remove athleticism or add some doubt.
• I've not talked with many other people who have actually studied this type of thing who endorse using the line on your ball. Most will say something like…

This: in the words of a PhD I just asked: "Might help some. Probably more for comfort and confidence than actual alignment help." "Might" and "some," eh? Feels a bit different than "Figure out how to use it. Figure out why you can't."

 

And again… if it helps your confidence and/or comfort, cool. Go for it.

 

 

Tiger often putts with the line on the front or bottom, kinda out of the way. He doesn't put it on top as often as you may think. Plus, he generally aims his putter well to the right (which is why he talks so much about "releasing the toe").

 

Like I've said, @getitdaily… if it works for you, cool. Good for you. It doesn't for everyone. And I think people are often worse with it than they know or realize. But maybe the "confidence" it gives them makes up for it a little bit. Or maybe it's a placebo.

 

 

Assumes facts not in evidence, your honor. 😄

 

 

That says it pretty well, yeah.

 

If it works for you, or you think it works for you, by all means, continue using the line.

 

 

Yep.

 

 

 

 

Take what I've said above and consider it. Or don't. Really won't affect my day much at all. 😀 You're sharing your experiences. I'm sharing mine. Monte is sharing his.

The same loren Roberts who practiced putting 3 hours a day, 5 days a week? Show me the aim consistency of Denny Mccarthy when he uses the line on the ball.

 

Show me the aim consistency of Robert Lorens.

• Most people don't aim the line where they think they are. They're off a decent amount. Practice 
• All else equal, it's slow(er) than just setting the ball down. Practice 
• You still have to line the putter up to where you want to hit it… the line on the ball is at best a help in lining the putter up. And because it's so small and close to the putter, the error can be magnified. I'm reducing alignment errors by lining my putter up to a spot "out there" (out by the hole or something) rather than "right here" (the ball). You're making the claim that putter line to ball line from 1/8" away is less reliable than line on putter to a spot 10 feet away? Show me SAM data on a normal player who knows how to use the line. Show me that aim consistency %.
• It has potential to "lock you in" to a certain line and/or has potential to remove athleticism or add some doubt. You mean make you commit to line and speed, thus taking away doubt while over the ball? Again, with Practice, this is not an issue. 2% break, 2 balls out. Stroke it. Yhe potential to lock you in is a benefit. 

 

[RoyalTroon]

47 minutes ago, iacas said:

Since we're talking about relevant stuff again… I'm back in. For now.

 

Live from Erie's Room of Gloom training center...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MelloYello]

2 hours ago, athomp70 said:

I'm surprised that nobody's mentioned one of the greatest pressure putters of all time, tiger woods. Always used a line

 

Absolutely. 

 

To be honest, you'd have to be blind not to notice how many outstanding putters used the line both historically (e.g. TW, Faxon, etc.) as well in the current crop (e.g. Lydia, JYK, etc.). 

 

Again, it doesn't need to be justified anymore than the concept of proper alignment does. If it needs justification, it's only to someone who is purposefully being difficult. 

 

 

 

.

Edited June 5, 2023 by MelloYello

[nsxguy]

10 minutes ago, MelloYello said:

Again, it doesn't need to be justified anymore than the concept of proper alignment does. If it needs justification, it's only to someone who is purposefully being difficult. 

 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by nsxguy

[iacas]

52 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

The same loren Roberts who practiced putting 3 hours a day, 5 days a week?

 

The point remains: the putter face is what you have to aim. Loren didn't align his putter perfectly at setup… he did it when it mattered. Tiger also aims the putter face well to the right.

 

 

52 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

Show me the aim consistency of Robert Lorens.

 

Where's yours?

 

I did a putting session with a guy on Saturday. Averaged 2.7° right at setup. Averaged 1° right at setup. SAM gave him a consistency score in the low 70s for setup and impact. He used the line on the ball, and took about six minutes to hit eight straight ten-footers, mostly from lining it up.

 

He later moved away from using the line when shown that he aimed better without the line, by lining the putter head up to his intended target. It's one data point, so I'm not giving it much weight. But it's representative of over a decade of what I've seen.

 

52 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

• Most people don't aim the line where they think they are. They're off a decent amount. Practice 

 

That's not the answer to everything. These were practiced, long-time line-users. And again, the line is not ultimately what needs to be aimed properly. Plus, time spent practicing this is time you're not spending practicing something else that may result in larger gains.

 

52 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

• All else equal, it's slow(er) than just setting the ball down. Practice 

 

That makes no sense. It's slower. Practicing may help you speed up a bit, but it's still going to be slower to align a line on a ball than to just set a ball down.

 

52 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

• You're making the claim that putter line to ball line from 1/8" away is less reliable than line on putter to a spot 10 feet away?

 

I apologize for not being as clear as I could have been here.

 

It's difficult to detect errors in alignment over short distances. This, and the sensitivity to dominant eye position relative to the golf ball, are why most people can't get within the hole from 8'. Errors in aligning a short line are greater than errors in aligning a long line. Both the line on the ball is short and the distance to the putter head are short, so it's easy for them to get mis-aligned. The distance from your putter to the target or "aim point" is a longer line, and is often easier to align.

 

So, yes, aligning a short line on a ball to a putter a short distance away is often more error-prone than creating a virtual line to your actual aiming point and lining the putter head up to that.

 

Like I said in an earlier comment… some of my experience with this is having fit Edel putters (their Classic line was great), and I could see the effects of lines and where your attention is drawn when you line something up. I'd rather see people line their putter up to their target rather than line their putter up to a line on a ball. There's more to that than I've gotten into here, but this isn't a shallow opinion on my side of things, or a shallow data set or experience set.

 

52 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

• You mean make you commit to line and speed, thus taking away doubt while over the ball? Again, with Practice, this is not an issue. 2% break, 2 balls out. Stroke it. Yhe potential to lock you in is a benefit. 

 

Did you just skip to the bullet list and not read anything else? Feels like it.

 

Like I said… consider it or don't. Clearly you're on the "don't" side. I'm not sure what you think I stand to gain by trying to share my opinion, information, experience… If the line works for you, cool. I'm not gonna teach it, nor am I going to make proclamations like you did in your first post here.

 

We disagree. I've got my experience/tests/etc., you've got yours.

 

Cheers.

[Pretzel]

Personally, I grew up having been taught to use the line on the golf ball when putting and I did that for my first 5 or so years of serious tournament play. It honestly was a bit of a hassle, just in terms of taking extra time to get the line exactly right (since there's not much point to just throwing the ball down there "close enough"), and it would be frustrating if there were times when the line was pointed at my aiming point just right but wasn't perfectly on the top of the ball and looked wrong when I would address the ball. With practice that at least becomes less frequent, but sometimes it'll happen regardless and you end up either backing off to fix it or you just putt it anyways feeling a little uncomfortable.

 

Eventually I decided to test using the line vs not using the line since I had read somewhere about it not making much difference either way (I'm sure it was some website out there). I already kept a log of all my putts (putt distance and finishing proximity) for every round anyways, so I went out and logged several hundred more putts the same way with both using a line and without using a line just making a note if any putt was something I noticed I had pushed/pulled away from my intended starting line. At the end of it I couldn't tell any significant differences in how many putts I made either way or how many I know that I pushed/pulled away from the intended line, but I did notice that I never once felt uncomfortable with how I was set up over the ball when I didn't use the line. Felt uncomfortable with plenty of nasty side-hill putts, but not with how I set up "not looking right" to me ever like it did every so often using the line.

 

Afterwards I had my answer for me personally at least, that I putt no better or worse either way really. Setting the ball down logo-up meant I was expecting to see something on the ball so if there was a scuff or it wasn't set up perfectly to hide the logos/markings it wouldn't bother me, so from that point on I've always just set my ball down logo up and lined up my putter to my aim point directly instead of lining up the ball, then lining up my putter either separately or lining it up with the direction of the arrow.

 

I think a majority of people who see success when they switch to using the line do so for one of two reasons:

1. They feel comfortable or confident as a sort of placebo effect, either because it's something new/exciting or because it's what they know and are used to, and confidence is always a good mindset to have going into hitting any shot.
2. Prior to using the line they were not picking out specific aiming points and just winging it a bit while standing over the ball until it "looked alright", and after using the line they started picking distinct points/lines to aim at and gained consistency as a result. By all means this is a good outcome, even if it's more of an unintended side effect rather than a direct result of using the line.

As far as the pros go, obviously some do it one way, some the other, and even others still do it both ways (Tiger Woods being a notable example of somebody who does it both ways). That said, I can guarantee that 90% of the pros on tour are doing the same thing they did when they originally broke out onto the tour and just haven't changed what isn't broken rather than knowing from experimentation and data if one or the other works better for them. Tour players aren't usually just a little stitious, most of them are superstitious when it comes to making changes like that.

 

If the line works for you, great - by all means keep using it if you can keep a reasonable pace of play and aren't one of the folks who is constantly adjusting it on the greens all the time. If it doesn't, that doesn't mean there's something wrong with you or even that you weren't using the line on the ball correctly. For me I liked having the extra peace of mind of never having it look "funny" to me standing over the ball for one reason or another, and I also liked having more time to focus on the read and the speed of the putt itself rather than fiddling with the golf ball I was trying to set down on slick tournament greens. 

[Albatross Dreamer]

I don't really see why it's that hard. The line will work for some people, and it won't for others, just like pretty much everything else. But I think we need to insert some humor into this thread (after all it's literally a game hitting around a ball). Preface-this is all meant in jest:

 

1- Line on the ball advocates putting lines on their balls before the round

 

2- when seeing someone with/without a line on the ball

 

3- When seeing someone else putting a line on their ball

 

4- When someone else in the group that doesn't use the line makes a putt

 

5- Mr T had a line on his head and believes you should use one on your ball too

[iacas]

What is a golfer more likely to line up accurately, and which matters more?

• A small line on a golf ball.
• The putter to a spot six to eighteen inches in front of the putter.

From what I've seen, the latter is more often the winner on both counts. It's a longer "line" and thus less prone to error, and it's aligning your putter (which is ultimately what matters) rather than the golf ball (which is an intermediate step at best).

[Soloman1]

I use a dash line, not a full line.

 

I’m telling you, it really works. I can write up a 500 word essay on the psychological and physiological benefits if you want.

[Nels55]

5 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

I use a dash line, not a full line.

 

I’m telling you, it really works. I can write up a 500 word essay on the psychological and physiological benefits if you want.

Fiction?  You are a talented writer...

[rondo01]

59 minutes ago, Albatross Dreamer said:

I don't really see why it's that hard. The line will work for some people, and it won't for others, just like pretty much everything else. But I think we need to insert some humor into this thread (after all it's literally a game hitting around a ball). Preface-this is all meant in jest:

 

I got you dude

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by rondo01

[MonteScheinblum]

10 minutes ago, rondo01 said:

I got you dude

 

My kids were about 2/3 years old when that came out, Every day, “Daddy, pickable me.”  They watched parts of it maybe 60-70 days in a row.  Didn’t matter, every time I saw that scene where he says, “I sit on the toilet, I laughed every time.”

[getitdaily]

7 hours ago, iacas said:

What is a golfer more likely to line up accurately, and which matters more?

• A small line on a golf ball.
• The putter to a spot six to eighteen inches in front of the putter.

From what I've seen, the latter is more often the winner on both counts. It's a longer "line" and thus less prone to error, and it's aligning your putter (which is ultimately what matters) rather than the golf ball (which is an intermediate step at best).

I tried the intermediate spot and it was terrible for me. I was so focused on that spot that I had the speed control of a 4 yr old.

 

I think it's best described like this and like you've said, it'll work for some and not for others. Your intermediate target method will work for some and not for others. Whatever method you use, you have to practice it and build proficiency so you do it right and you do it right quickly. 

 

I am an ardent supporter of the line on the ball. A ton of pros use it. I have tried it for a while and hated it until I took time to retrain myself with it. It will expose issues in your stroke. If you cannot deliver the face close to square then you're not making putts anyway. 

 

I will advocate for people using the line. But I've spent enough time debating it in this thread. 

 

I'm happy to help people learn to use it and to use it quickly. I line up once, check the line with the putter shaft and make minor adjustments. I never recheck the line after an adjustment because I've practiced making the initial line and the adjustment. If you are going to check and recheck and recheck and take forever then don't use the line. I'm done debating this. 

 

My effort in this thread will move to helping anyone who's tried to use the line and struggled with it (like I did) or anyone who wants to use it as part of a plan to putt better. Better alignment. Better stroke. Better speed. You have to practice all of it.

Edited June 6, 2023 by getitdaily

[hammersia]

On 6/3/2023 at 10:32 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

 

 

Line is almost irrelevant in putting.  Several putting experts have proved that to me, as do the stats.

 

 

This is worryingly close to the eccentric character at our club who use to insist that putting has nothing to do with line or length. And he was terrible.

 

But Monte, so.......

[Hawkeye77]

On 6/3/2023 at 8:07 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

Several levels to this.
 

First, statistically golfers of all skill levels just don’t make that many putts.  Putting better is all about 3 putt avoidance and that’s getting the speed right.  The more you focus on line, the less you’re focusing on speed.  
 

Second the line is dependent on what speed you hit it.  When you line up the line you limit yourself to hitting it the speed that line necessitates or you’ll miss it.  You’re taking away your brains subconscious ability to adapt.  There is not one line to the hole.  There are multiple variables at work.

 

I have done this test so many times with so many people 

 

Attempt A.  I align them incorrectly, but competently on 6-50 foot putts and say just hit it solid the right speed with no attention to line at all.
 

Attempt B.  We roll putts at the hole and figure out the prefect line for a putt that goes less than a foot passed the hole and I line them up perfectly on that line.  Then I say make this putt on that line.

 

A destroys B by such a wide margin it’s  comical.  
 

 

 

One of the worst things a golfer can do is discern anything from a small sample size.  Golfers remember the one day where they hooped in everything and try and recapture that magic and long term, putt worse.  Watching golf on TV Sunday doesn’t help this either.  People get the idea that’s what good putting is.  Those are the elite players who are putting the best that day.  That’s almost like thinking you can solve your retirement finances by buying lottery tickets.

 

So far in my 40 years as a golfer and teacher, in both my epiphanies and seeing those of others.  The number of AHA moments that actually panned out has been Mr. Blutarski’s GPA.  
 

Almost universally, enormous short term success is fools gold.  
 

 

 

Somebody was on about this a week or two ago - no teacher here, lol, but folks should listen up when people that know a little bit have something to say that is born of experience.  Long putts, short putts ----- so many really don't get there are different lines to the hole depending on speed. There are some good vids out there of Faxon talking about this.  Now, he also was one of the first to advocate/use a line but doesn't talk about using it as precisely as I see people fiddling endlessly with it.

 

I've had my share of driving range "epiphanies" over the years, haha, and got over the tip of the moment stuff a long time ago (maybe it was around St. Patrick's Day 2013, wink, wink), especially where short game is concerned.

 

I like to see the white of the golf ball and don't feel the need to "adjust" to how things look with the line when having maybe lined up the ball with the line and so forth.

 

If a line works, use it.

 

But no point preaching and arguing about it as if nuclear fission has been discovered. It's always going to be IMO and YMMV, but sometimes listen a little to the experts as well (and sometimes yes, you do have to be George and do the opposite).  

 

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by Hawkeye77

[Kuuuch]

@iacasdo you have any data on when pros typically use a line on the ball? Specifically talking about the ones who use it sparingly. For instance I’ve noticed Rory has a line on his ball but it looks like he rarely uses it. Is it just putts that should be aimed inside the hole? 

[naval2006]

I see in pro golf on tv some players using and overusing the line when putting.

 

I use it just as a visual cue (aim in the general direction) but I focus mostly on speed of putt and feeling body and face square to target in relation to the hole or the break.  

 

Anyway, a couple of weeks ago I came across a Titleist ball with aim line and a "square" line behind the aim line.  That was the most disturbing ball I've ever putted with. 

 

It's pretty valid to use the line if it helps, we get hold of any crutch when it comes to lower our scores.  This is golf.  But for a lot of golfers the aim line doesn't work, though.  

[Golf_Goof]

I haven't really ever been comfortable using the line - but also haven't persevered with implementing it and getting over the discomfort. 

 

With the greens I play on (not great) it's rare if I can ever get the ball to sit still due to imperfections in the green - i.e., when placing the ball it always seems to settle one way or another from initial placement. Some other have posted that this is something you learn to live with and adjust for - yet another variable. 

 

Ultimately, this forum exists for us to observe, discuss, and attempt to incorporate into our own games, what the best in the game are doing to accomplish what they do. Along with many other skills, pros are pros because they can best account for and adjust to all the variables regardless of the shot being played. If using the line is the current trend for success, we should not casually dismiss that. 

[TourSpoon]

I take a hybrid approach to the whole line on the ball. I use it to orient myself from say 30 feet to 15 feet to the high side of the hole. Once I set it down, its reference and everything is now speed. There are many times that I will see or feel the break in my feet and aim off the line based on the speed I plan to use. Again, the line is just a reference and I can ignore it. From 15 feet to about 6 feet the line is a little more important and I will be more precise trying to get more of that line over line roll. From 6 feet and in, I may use a logo but from 3 feet and in its the white part of the ball and I make sure to double check my head and eye position to ensure proper alignment. I like the white part on the shorties because I practice 3 footers religiously and if my eyes are right I can deliver the face square to the target (usually a blade of grass) and  make a ton of these. I reserve the right to change any of the above on any given day, but this basically sums it up. Now with all that said, I never practice with a line. I routinely do 3 footers, 6 footers, then speed from various lengths. If I make my share of 3-6 footers and avoid 3 putts, I am going to be a factor on the course.  

 

 

[jut111]

could never get comfortable with the line - never felt like i was able to aim get it set right, non perfect greens rolling a bit off my mark etc.  Game changer for me was going to a stencil with a solid line in the middle and dotted parallel lines on the outside.  Much easier for me to line up and feel good about over the ball.  I only use it for putts i read as on the lip or inside the cup.  But I tell you 5 footers that used to be knee knockers are pretty easy now.  

[MK7Golf21]

I don't use a line pretty much most of the time and most playing partners don't use one either. If you are taking time to line up the ball every single putt during our rounds, you will most likely get roasted or not invited to play again. Tournament might be a different scenario.

[jut111]

Just now, MK7Golf21 said:

I don't use a line pretty much most of the time and most playing partners don't use one either. If you are taking time to line up the ball every single putt during our rounds, you will most likely get roasted or not invited to play again. Tournament might be a different scenario.

i agree.  i hate playing slow - or even feeling like i'm playing slow.  I don't do this in casual rounds - probably makes me a bit of a sandbagger...

[getitdaily]

11 minutes ago, MK7Golf21 said:

I don't use a line pretty much most of the time and most playing partners don't use one either. If you are taking time to line up the ball every single putt during our rounds, you will most likely get roasted or not invited to play again. Tournament might be a different scenario.

This is why you have to practice it. You have to be really close to dead on the first time you set the ball down and then you have to know how moving the ball to change the line is very, very subtle. I've played 3 rounds with the line in the ball and haven't once remeasured where the line was pointing. I measure once, make a small tweak and go. I use the practice green to reinforce how I measure and then tweak where the ball is pointing...and to get the initial aim to be super close. 

 

For long putts (40ish feet or more) I use a spot about 3 inches in front of the ball to align the line.

 

I am in 100% agreement, you can't use the line and take all day getting it lined up. I also don't usually use it outside 12 or so feet. Typically the only putts I'll use the line outside 12 or so feet are putts that break left to right and are about 1% slope. I tend to line those up too far outside the hole by just using the putter's line.

Edited June 6, 2023 by getitdaily

[MK7Golf21]

16 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

This is why you have to practice it. You have to be really close to dead on the first time you set the ball down and then you have to know how moving the ball to change the line is very, very subtle. I've played 3 rounds with the line in the ball and haven't once remeasured where the line was pointing. I measure once, make a small tweak and go. I use the practice green to reinforce how I measure and then tweak where the ball is pointing...and to get the initial aim to be super close. 

 

For long putts (40ish feet or more) I use a spot about 3 inches in front of the ball to align the line.

 

I am in 100% agreement, you can't use the line and take all day getting it lined up. I also don't usually use it outside 12 or so feet. Typically the only putts I'll use the line outside 12 or so feet are putts that break left to right and are about 1% slope. I tend to line those up too far outside the hole by just using the putter's line.

 

I'm just saying we all watch the pro's on tv and many of them take forever lining it up, easy to copy what they are doing and become a very slow player. I've done both, I've found lining up each put is a waste of time 90's of the time especially rounds with your buddies.

[chigolfer1]

59 minutes ago, MK7Golf21 said:

 

I'm just saying we all watch the pro's on tv and many of them take forever lining it up, easy to copy what they are doing and become a very slow player. I've done both, I've found lining up each put is a waste of time 90's of the time especially rounds with your buddies.

 

You can use the line without necessarily getting it EXACTLY right like you see some of the pros do.  On certain length putts, I use it as a guide because it's so much easier to line up correctly with a line and standing behind the ball but even if it's not pointed precisely where I want to aim, I still have that guide.   

 

I understand what Monte is saying on longer putts where speed is so much more important than precise direction so I'll use it even more "sloppily" then.

 

But, I would like to see the data on "makeable putts" from 5 to 20 feet or so.

Edited June 6, 2023 by chigolfer1

[MelloYello]

1 hour ago, MK7Golf21 said:

 

I'm just saying we all watch the pro's on tv and many of them take forever lining it up, easy to copy what they are doing and become a very slow player. I've done both, I've found lining up each put is a waste of time 90's of the time especially rounds with your buddies.

 

I definitely think that's a fair criticism but I've also watched a number of great putters who I felt were a little slow. Over time, I've realize they are simply more diligent in their pre-putt routine. Having watched it pay off, it's encouraged me to spend a couple extra seconds giving a putt it's due and really "caring" whole-heartedly that I'm giving every putt my full attention. 

 

And you're right, if it's just goofing around with your buddies that's one thing. 90% of my rounds are money matches though where every single shot matters because you're playing alongside 3 other guys who form a team. If you goof around your team won't appreciate that. 

 

You might be like me, IDK, but I have a strong tendency to rush because I'm just generally an impatient person. I can get impatient in traffic. I can get impatient on the internet. I can get impulsively angry when I stub my toe. I can get impatient when I'm doing yardwork. I've never been a detail-oriented person. I've always wanted to burn through things as quickly as possible. 

 

On the greens, I always just want to get in there and hit it. Slowing down is definitely something that did not feel good for me but upon watching some of my group's better putters, I've realized that there's nothing wrong with being more deliberate--especially if the results are there. 

 

I've talked about it before but last year when I got down from being a 2-index to a 0 it was largely because I was putting a lot better at close range (inside 6-ft). I ended up playing better, building skills that have lasted and also shot my personal best several times. It was a great year. 

 

So for many of us who are playing in money games and really trying to shave strokes, we're out there trying to spend those extra couple seconds getting focused and our playing partners would be the first ones to say, "yes, please do that if it helps you!"

 

 

.

Edited June 6, 2023 by MelloYello