New AMG shaft lean video

[chigolfer1]

The drill at the end (at 12:58) reminds me of Monte's drill where you bring your arms down until shaft parallel and then pivot.  Also, sort of like Shauheen's pump drill with the alignment stick.  The main takeaway in conjunction with this is get in the proper position at P6 and you are sort of set the rest of the way to impact

Edited June 5, 2023 by chigolfer1

[MK7Golf21]

22 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

Why would I think they changed their downswing teaching? It’s the same thing they’ve said all along. As I said, I prefer the way they teach the “forward” motion more than  the way they teach the down or what they call “shallowing” which is why I applauded that aspect of this recent video. People claimed I hate AMG in the shallowing video thread which couldn’t be further from the truth. I just don’t love some things in that video. 

 

you like the way they teach not going forward but not the down? If it is not going forward then it has to go down, lol.

 

 

[chigolfer1]

3 minutes ago, fjk said:

Uh what lol. 

 

I do agree that at the end around 12:58 it is a little weird how they emphasize everything happening on the "trail side of your body."   I don't really get that or why it needed to be said there?

[MPStrat]

Just now, MK7Golf21 said:

 

you like the way they teach not going forward but not the down? If it is not going forward then it has to go down, lol.

 

 

There was a thread on this…. 

[fjk]

5 minutes ago, chigolfer1 said:

I do agree that at the end around 12:58 it is a little weird how they emphasize everything happening on the "trail side of your body."   I don't really get that or why it needed to be said there?

I think there has been an overemphasis by ams on opening up the lead side, which tends to pull the arms and club out, to try to get open at impact.

 

Also the misconception or overconcern about "getting stuck" and worrying about arms and club trailing the body turn, so people try to get their arms more forward or left of the body.

 

They're emphasizing that the trail side needs to get through impact, and by putting the club and arms in the correct spot on the trail side, your body will react by bring them forward into impact by rotating (left side open, but also right side through), which is what is measured on gears.

 

Look at the trail hip position of ams vs. pros at and through impact. People always talk about how open pros are but dont really talk about how far forward the trail hip is.

[MPStrat]

10 minutes ago, chigolfer1 said:

I do agree that at the end around 12:58 it is a little weird how they emphasize everything happening on the "trail side of your body."   I don't really get that or why it needed to be said there?

Because many golfers see 2d face on videos and think impact happens on the lead side. They try to pull their hands forward to their left leg. 

[Zitlow]

The COM moves forward, the arc moves forward. The right arm unfolding gets the arms, hands and shaft on the same plane. 

 

 

The right arm doesn't swing independently from the right shoulder, the right shoulder swings the arm. 

 

 

Like a sidearm throw.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nels55]

I like that video.  The arms are on the trail side of the body at impact is something that makes a lot of sense!

[Zitlow]

3 minutes ago, fjk said:

I think there has been an overemphasis by ams on opening up the lead side, which tends to pull the arms and club out, to try to get open at impact.

 

Also the misconception or overconcern about "getting stuck" and worrying about arms and club trailing the body turn, so people try to get their arms more forward or left of the body.

 

They're emphasizing that the trail side needs to get through impact, and by putting the club and arms in the correct spot on the trail side, your body will react by bring them forward into impact by rotating (left side open, but also right side through), which is what is measured on gears.

 

Look at the trail hip position of ams vs. pros at and through impact. People always talk about how open pros are but dont really talk about how far forward the trail hip is.

Teachers telling students to turn their left hip to start the downswing are giving terrible advice. 

[MonteScheinblum]

41 minutes ago, chigolfer1 said:

The drill at the end (at 12:58) reminds me of Monte's drill where you bring your arms down until shaft parallel and then pivot.  Also, sort of like Shauheen's pump drill with the alignment stick.  The main takeaway in conjunction with this is get in the proper position at P6 and you are sort of set the rest of the way to impact

Yes, you need a little early arm work so you don’t need it late.

Edited June 5, 2023 by MonteScheinblum

[MK7Golf21]

58 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

There was a thread on this…. 

 

fair enough but they talk about not leaving arms up and not dragging arms hands to midline in both videos as points of emphasis

[Soloman1]

There’s good and bad blends in a downswing. Pelvis and upper body rotation vs. arms.

 

A lot of recreational golfers spin out first, leaving arms behind. They don’t have the arm speed to match that.

 

The “Fire the Hips” stuff from the past didn’t help. You have no choice but to flip and get the trail arm rotating over the lead arm early. Over the top wipe city.

 

Figure out the blend of arm and body timing that gets you the sequence that fits you.

 

Monte’s point is on target. Give a spinner the feel of getting arms moving earlier and voila.

 

 

[golfarb1]

3 hours ago, Zitlow said:

Teachers telling students to turn their left hip to start the downswing are giving terrible advice. 

 

Edited June 5, 2023 by golfarb1

[iacas]

10 hours ago, getitdaily said:

I believe, when done correctly, the arms coming down is effortless, the biggest key is patience.

 

Arrrrgggghhhh. Really dislike when something you must definitely DO in the golf swing is described as "effortless." I can assure you I've had to tell many students to very much add some effort to what their arms do to "come down" in the golf swing.

 

"Effortless" is a feel, not a real. I've had things feel "effortless" but know that I'm expending effort to move those things in those ways.

 

10 hours ago, getitdaily said:

Watch this video with their video on downswing handspeed and you can get the opposite thought/feeling.

 

I don't think I agree with that… because I think they'd strongly disagree with your "effortless" take. The arms are actively DOING things. They're expending effort.

 

8 hours ago, TrueBlue4Lyfe said:

I think I just disagree with the title.  The video tells you what not to do but I don’t think it’s helping anyone get more shaft lean.

 

I'm not a huge fan of their titles, but… they get a ton of engagement, so…

 

8 hours ago, TrueBlue4Lyfe said:

Most golfers already have their hands behind where it’s telling them to. That’s not going to help them square them club without flipping

 

I think flipping happens for reasons beyond just "squaring" the face.

 

Many amateurs are pretty square or even slightly closed at impact. The idea that they have to get the handle forward of their pants zipper or shirt buttons plays a role here… which is why I said this video pairs with the "getting open by pushing a rolling chair" video. 🙂

Edited June 5, 2023 by iacas

[Tfb003]

16 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

Many amateurs are pretty square or even slightly closed at impact. The idea that they have to get the handle forward of their pants zipper or shirt buttons plays a role here… which is why I said this video pairs with the "getting open by pushing a rolling chair" video. 🙂

Both of those videos speak to me.

 

The idea that the hands don’t come forward of the pants zipper is not one that I have ever understood until watching this video. I think what Monte referenced (fire the arms early so you don’t have to late) is part of the puzzle. When teachers refer to firing the arms I always took it as firing them all the way. 
 

Now what is in my head is fire the arms early to your right side and then push the hell out of the office chair to bring them around the corner. Sound like a good mental map? Would that be pushing off the left foot too late?
 

[getitdaily]

21 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

Arrrrgggghhhh. Really dislike when something you must definitely DO in the golf swing is described as "effortless." I can assure you I've had to tell many students to very much add some effort to what their arms do to "come down" in the golf swing.

 

"Effortless" is a feel, not a real. I've had things feel "effortless" but know that I'm expending effort to move those things in those ways.

 

 

I don't think I agree with that… because I think they'd strongly disagree with your "effortless" take. The arms are actively DOING things. They're expending effort.

 

 

I'm not a huge fan of their titles, but… they get a ton of engagement, so…

 

 

I think flipping happens for reasons beyond just "squaring" the face.

 

Many amateurs are pretty square or even slightly closed at impact. The idea that they have to get the handle forward of their pants zipper or shirt buttons plays a role here… which is why I said this video pairs with the "getting open by pushing a rolling chair" video. 🙂

Yeah, I should have noted the effortless feel is that split second period in transition where the arms stop and start down. That first like inch or 2 of the arms starting to come.back down. From there, it's far from effortless. 

 

That is definitely the feel I'm getting as I work to get less steep in transition. 

[TrueBlue4Lyfe]

8 hours ago, fjk said:

I think there has been an overemphasis by ams on opening up the lead side, which tends to pull the arms and club out, to try to get open at impact.

 

Also the misconception or overconcern about "getting stuck" and worrying about arms and club trailing the body turn, so people try to get their arms more forward or left of the body.

 

They're emphasizing that the trail side needs to get through impact, and by putting the club and arms in the correct spot on the trail side, your body will react by bring them forward into impact by rotating (left side open, but also right side through), which is what is measured on gears.

 

Look at the trail hip position of ams vs. pros at and through impact. People always talk about how open pros are but dont really talk about how far forward the trail hip is.

Lots of correlation causation confusion here and in the video.

 

 

[TrueBlue4Lyfe]

8 hours ago, MPStrat said:

Because many golfers see 2d face on videos and think impact happens on the lead side. They try to pull their hands forward to their left leg. 

But many/most golfers don’t and still have no shaft lean.

 

My issue is nothing discussed in the video is going to actually improve shaft lean.  It may get them off the wrong path if they were on one specific wrong path.
 

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by TrueBlue4Lyfe

[TrueBlue4Lyfe]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

 

I'm not a huge fan of their titles, but… they get a ton of engagement, so…

 

 

I think flipping happens for reasons beyond just "squaring" the face.

 

Many amateurs are pretty square or even slightly closed at impact. The idea that they have to get the handle forward of their pants zipper or shirt buttons plays a role here… which is why I said this video pairs with the "getting open by pushing a rolling chair" video. 🙂

they are only square and closed at impact because they flipped/casted.  Doing that allows them to hit it straight since they don’t otherwise turn the clubhead enough with their arms and body

Edited June 6, 2023 by TrueBlue4Lyfe

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, TrueBlue4Lyfe said:

they are only square and closed at impact because they flipped/casted.

 

Nah. They're square/closed at impact because they had to stall the body to get the hands down. The flip is a result, not a cause.

 

Some golfers flip to square the face, absolutely. A lot don't flip to square the face… they flip because they're otherwise out of sync.

[TrueBlue4Lyfe]

1 minute ago, iacas said:

 

Nah. They're square/closed at impact because they had to stall the body to get the hands down. The flip is a result, not a cause.

 

Some golfers flip to square the face, absolutely. A lot don't flip to square the face… they flip because they're otherwise out of sync.

If your first paragraph we’re true a flip would cause a large hook every time 

[iacas]

12 minutes ago, TrueBlue4Lyfe said:

If your first paragraph we’re true a flip would cause a large hook every time 

 

No. You've never seen a left path with closed shoulders and barely open hips? I have. It's pretty common.

 

I think you're really generalizing a bit too much. There are many reasons why people flip. Trying to square the face is one of several.

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by iacas

[MPStrat]

31 minutes ago, TrueBlue4Lyfe said:

But many/most golfers don’t and still have no shaft lean.

 

My issue is nothing discussed in the video is going to actually improve shaft lean.  It may get them off the wrong path if they were on one specific wrong path.
 

 

That’s a fair point. But I will say that they do a nice job of describing how not to go about trying to add shaft lean.

[TrueBlue4Lyfe]

11 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

No. You've never seen a left path with closed shoulders and barely open hips? I have. It's pretty common.

 

I think you're really generalizing a bit too much. There are many reasons why people flip. Trying to square the face is one of several.

 

Fair.  

Back on topic.  To me this video is like a telling someone who is working on fixing their slide that they should actually try to slide more to improve their weight shift.  
 

Most golfers have the club already way too far behind and many may be trying to get it into a better position by getting their arms more in front.  That doesn’t mean their arms are actually too far in front.

Edited June 6, 2023 by TrueBlue4Lyfe

[iacas]

11 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

But I will say that they do a nice job of describing how not to go about trying to add shaft lean.

 

Yeah, which goes back to what @TrueBlue4Lyfe said before: the title isn't great.

 

9 minutes ago, TrueBlue4Lyfe said:

Most golfers have the club already way too far behind and many may be trying to get it into a better position by getting their arms more in front.  That doesn’t mean their arms are actually too far in front.

 

I see it more as @MPStrat just said: how not to get shaft lean. It's a "stop doing this" video or a "stop trying to do this or think this" video, not a "do this to achieve this" video.

[MPStrat]

7 minutes ago, TrueBlue4Lyfe said:

Most golfers have the club already way too far behind and many may be trying to get it into a better position by getting their arms more in front.  That doesn’t mean their arms are actually too far in front.

The hands behind the trail leg at p6 isn’t fixed by trying to jam the arms back in front of the body in the downswing. Much of the time, arms too far behind is created in the backswing and the way many ams go about trying to catch them up creates all of the looks we hate through impact. Flip, chicken wing, body stall etc. Like AMG said in their video, once you try to get the arms back in front of you, the body freezes. 

[TrueBlue4Lyfe]

9 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

Yeah, which goes back to what @TrueBlue4Lyfe said before: the title isn't great.

 

 

I see it more as @MPStrat just said: how not to get shaft lean. It's a "stop doing this" video or a "stop trying to do this or think this" video, not a "do this to achieve this" video.

Yup.  I just don’t know how many people this video is actually helping, even if they had actually acknowledged it’s tailored to a specific group. 
 

how many ams don’t already have their right elbow way behind their right hip?

 

Pros may not have their right elbow in front but it’s certainly further along than ams’.

Edited June 6, 2023 by TrueBlue4Lyfe

[TrueBlue4Lyfe]

16 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

The hands behind the trail leg at p6 isn’t fixed by trying to jam the arms back in front of the body in the downswing. Much of the time, arms too far behind is created in the backswing and the way many ams go about trying to catch them up creates all of the looks we hate through impact. Flip, chicken wing, body stall etc. Like AMG said in their video, once you try to get the arms back in front of you, the body freezes. 

Agree to disagree on most of that but I don’t think it’s particularly relevant.  
 

Trying to get the arms even more behind you isn’t going to help anyone under any theory I don’t think.

For flippers you are going to find very few swings where the arms are too far ahead or anywhere near where great ams and pros have them.

The unfortunate fact is that most ams just don’t have the hand speed and nothing is going to fix it.

Edited June 6, 2023 by TrueBlue4Lyfe

[iacas]

7 minutes ago, TrueBlue4Lyfe said:

how many ams don’t already have their right elbow way behind their right hip?

 

See below… widening the elbow and lowering the hands moves the club farther "in front" of the player.

 

4 minutes ago, TrueBlue4Lyfe said:

Trying to get the arms even more behind you isn’t going to help anyone under any theory I don’t think.

 

That's not what the video says to do. Extending or widening the right elbow (righties) gets the arms back in front of the right hip. You're conflating a few things.

[GolfTurkey]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

I'm not a huge fan of their titles, but… they get a ton of engagement, so…

 

I think this is a general symptom of YouTube.

 

IMO the guys that figured out how to work the system re. clickbait titles, engine optimisation etc. early on in the game grew their channels at a far greater rate than perhaps their content merited, and now everyone else is forced to do the same just to get any traction.