What to work on when there is nothing glaringly the problem?

[angler99]

I hit a single digit a couple years ago and since have been hovering between 7.5 - 9, normally right at the 8.0 - 8.5 handicap. I worked really hard to get to a single digit but have just hit a wall. The frustrating thing is I don't know what to spend my time working on. If I go back through my rounds, nothing jumps out as a huge weakness. Nothing really jumps out as a huge strength either, except maybe fairways hit. I'll go back through my rounds and it will be like 1 ball OB off the tee, 1 3 putt, 2 bad chips, 1 duffed hybrid from the fairway, 2 pulled or blocked approach shots.

 

I think I need to hit more greens in regulation to get down to a 4 or 5, but I've focused hard practicing mid to short irons for the last 2 years. I'm talking like 5-6 range sessions a week.

 

Perhaps I'm not analyzing my rounds properly, but I'm at a bit of a loss on what I can work on to get better when everything just seems ok/average/whatever.

 

I suspect putting would pay off the most to make up for the random assortment of bad shots that happen throughout a round.

 

What do you guys work on when you are having trouble finding the weak link?

[Chunkitgood]

Nothing personal, but from what I see very few people strike the ball as it should be done.  If 10 % of golfers break 80, but 95 percent of golfers add loft, chances are quite a few of those people breaking 80 are hitting up on the ball instead of down.

 

In other words, to get substantially better you may need to rethink your entire  swing.  You could also draw the same inference from the fact that working on improving your current swing is not showing results.

 

I’ve known people who have shot around 80 for literally decades.  They are always tinkering with something around the edges, but have no interest in giving up the essentials of their swing, which they view as a hard earned skill rather than a trap holding them back.

[angler99]

5 minutes ago, Chunkitgood said:

Nothing personal, but from what I see very few people strike the ball as it should be done.  If 10 % of golfers break 80, but 95 percent of golfers add loft, chances are quite a few of those people breaking 80 are hitting up on the ball instead of down.

 

In other words, to get substantially better you may need to rethink your entire  swing.  You could also draw the same inference from the fact that working on improving your current swing is not showing results.

 

I’ve known people who have shot around 80 for literally decades.  They are always tinkering with something around the edges, but have no interest in giving up the essentials of their swing, which they view as a hard earned skill rather than a trap holding them back.

Could be, but I've taken a bunch of lessons to fix some flaws over the the last two years and work on that every day. I've fixed my grip, gotten rid of a cupped wrist at the top, added depth and width, and have all but gotten rid of my early extension. I'm striping the ball better than ever on the range and most rounds. I've added a lot more rotation and if I look at videos of my swing today compared to when I first got to a single digit handicap, it's noticeably better.  I've added 20 yards on my drive and 1.5 club length on irons.

 

That's not to say I can't improve more on my swing, but I had a much, much worse swing when I got to a single digit handicap.

Edited August 28, 2023 by angler99

[Patnachts]

I would start by truly assessing your game with advanced statistics (i.e., shots gained). At an 8 handicap, there is plenty to improve upon. If those stats tell you that everything is about equal, just pick one part of your game and start grinding that. Because frankly, you could hit more greens, hit more fairways, putt better, and chip better. But, for us to help you, we need more.

[MPStrat]

If someone is an 7-8 index and they are only 3 putting once a round, ballstriking has a lot of room for improvement.

[DataGolfer]

Drive, Approach, 2 putts, par.

Add an approach for Par 5s, take away the drive for Par 3s.

 

Statistically, this is how ~10/18 holes go for better players.

 

Add a birdie here or there, a couple bogies... maybe an extraneous double or worse.

 

So if that's not what your rounds looks like... ballstriking needs work.

 

Striping it "better than ever" could simply not be as good as you think it is.

Edited August 28, 2023 by golfman1023

[DFS PFD]

If you're a 7-8 you've got a long ways to go still. Leaving plenty of strokes on the course, go find them. 

[MonteScheinblum]

1 hour ago, angler99 said:

I hit a single digit a couple years ago and since have been hovering between 7.5 - 9, normally right at the 8.0 - 8.5 handicap. I worked really hard to get to a single digit but have just hit a wall. The frustrating thing is I don't know what to spend my time working on. If I go back through my rounds, nothing jumps out as a huge weakness. Nothing really jumps out as a huge strength either, except maybe fairways hit. I'll go back through my rounds and it will be like 1 ball OB off the tee, 1 3 putt, 2 bad chips, 1 duffed hybrid from the fairway, 2 pulled or blocked approach shots.

 

I think I need to hit more greens in regulation to get down to a 4 or 5, but I've focused hard practicing mid to short irons for the last 2 years. I'm talking like 5-6 range sessions a week.

 

Perhaps I'm not analyzing my rounds properly, but I'm at a bit of a loss on what I can work on to get better when everything just seems ok/average/whatever.

 

I suspect putting would pay off the most to make up for the random assortment of bad shots that happen throughout a round.

 

What do you guys work on when you are having trouble finding the weak link?

An 8 is an excellent player.  My experience on how an 8 can improve is two fold.

 

1.  Most players at that skill level, even those that have been to instructors, are working on standard brand aesthetics, versus the subtle root cause of mis hit shots.

 

2.  This is a hard one to hear…..they give away shots trying things that are above their pay grade.  Flop shots, working the ball their opposite direction to attack a pin or dogleg, Trying too hard to MAKE putts, trying to put excess spin on shots of all kinds to “get it close,” etc.

 

 

Edited August 28, 2023 by MonteScheinblum

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

17 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

An 8 is an excellent player.  My experience on how an 8 can improve is two fold.

 

1.  Most players at that skill level, even those that have been to instructors, are working on standard brand aesthetics, versus the subtle root cause of mis hit shots.

 

2.  This is a hard one to hear…..they give away shots trying things that are above their pay grade.  Flop shots, working the ball their opposite direction to attack a pin or dogleg, Trying too hard to MAKE putts, trying to put excess spin on shots of all kinds to “get it close,” etc.

 

 

Monte, thank you for the tips, but could you go into a touch more detail on what you mean in point #1 by "standard brand aesthetics"?  Thanks.

 

Nice instagram 1-hour show too.  Though you might want to get a wearable mike if you do another one, with all of the demonstrations you were doing.

[MonteScheinblum]

3 minutes ago, Jayjay_theweim_guy said:

Monte, thank you for the tips, but could you go into a touch more detail on what you mean in point #1 by "standard brand aesthetics"?  Thanks.

 

Nice instagram 1-hour show too.  Though you might want to get a wearable mike if you do another one, with all of the demonstrations you were doing.

Standard brand aesthetics.  More lag, more shaft lean, less flip, hips more open at impact, etc.

 

For whatever reason, I’ve had issues with the mic and Instagram live 

Edited August 28, 2023 by MonteScheinblum

[Ri_Redneck]

I am at the same handicap as you and I find my shortcomings in most bad rounds are just inattention to details. I get a bit sloppy with my shot assessment, a little rushed on my setup to an easy shot, or take a semi-short putt for granted. It doesn't take much of that to add 4-5 strokes. Take last week for example. I was playing a casual round with a couple of fellows I had never met. We visited a little starting out and through the round as we were all gear heads. I was relaxed, but not always focused like I should be.

 

1. I got sloppy setting up to a 90yd pitch and shanked it slightly which cost me a shot.

2. I took a straight 2 footer a little too casually which cost me a shot.

3. I attempted a soft flop from a fluffy lie to a tight pin which cost me a shot.

4. I got aggressive on two short par 4s which cost me two shots.

5. I took a simple layup on a par 5 too casually and put myself in a bunker behind a tree which cost me a shot.

 

The remainder of the round I stayed on point and scored well. The 6 holes though looked sloppy in execution and turned a possible 70's round into an 80's round. That's all it takes even when you strike the ball pretty well. But......

 

Tomorrow is another day.

 

Check your stats closely and when at the range, work on what is costing you strokes. Then, when you're playing, make sure you stick with you PSR and consider EVERYTHING before deciding on your shot.

 

BT

[Fuscinator]

A practice method that took my putting to a higher level was practicing with just two balls on a practice green with multiple targets. You make your read, make the best putt you can with the first ball, then try to get inside the first ball with the second ball. After the second ball, move to a different target with a different break and length. For me, this approach really helped me get better at calibrating speed, especially on long putts. I have a much better idea of just how hard I have to hit long putts these days.

 

You might also try getting much more specific about all your targets, so instead of aiming more or less at a tree, pick out a branch on that tree, or even a leaf, if you can see that far.

[SNIPERBBB]

Why aren't you hitting GIRs?

 

Short off the tee, wild off the tee, can't hit out of the rough, inconsistent ball striking, bad shot selection?

 

Need to address the why's, not the how's. The how must come after the why. And sometimes you need a follow-up why or two before the how.

[angler99]

23 minutes ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Why aren't you hitting GIRs?

 

Short off the tee, wild off the tee, can't hit out of the rough, inconsistent ball striking, bad shot selection?

 

Need to address the why's, not the how's. The how must come after the why. And sometimes you need a follow-up why or two before the how.

That's a good question. There's definitely not a large correlation between distance from the green and GIR. It's not because I'm short or wild off the tee.  The biggest strength of my game is driving. I average around missing 3 - 4 fairways. I'd say it's rare that I have more than a 7 iron to the green on par 4s. I play a slightly shorter course with smallish greens and most greens have danger around them whether that's water, OB or unplayable grass, so even if you miss a green by 5 yards, you could be in the drink.

[angler99]

1 hour ago, Ri_Redneck said:

I am at the same handicap as you and I find my shortcomings in most bad rounds are just inattention to details. I get a bit sloppy with my shot assessment, a little rushed on my setup to an easy shot, or take a semi-short putt for granted. It doesn't take much of that to add 4-5 strokes. Take last week for example. I was playing a casual round with a couple of fellows I had never met. We visited a little starting out and through the round as we were all gear heads. I was relaxed, but not always focused like I should be.

 

1. I got sloppy setting up to a 90yd pitch and shanked it slightly which cost me a shot.

2. I took a straight 2 footer a little too casually which cost me a shot.

3. I attempted a soft flop from a fluffy lie to a tight pin which cost me a shot.

4. I got aggressive on two short par 4s which cost me two shots.

5. I took a simple layup on a par 5 too casually and put myself in a bunker behind a tree which cost me a shot.

 

The remainder of the round I stayed on point and scored well. The 6 holes though looked sloppy in execution and turned a possible 70's round into an 80's round. That's all it takes even when you strike the ball pretty well. But......

 

Tomorrow is another day.

 

Check your stats closely and when at the range, work on what is costing you strokes. Then, when you're playing, make sure you stick with you PSR and consider EVERYTHING before deciding on your shot.

 

BT

This sounds exactly like my bad rounds. Just a random assortment of poor shots.

[Golfonthemind]

I’m currently a 5 and think the biggest thing by far that has dropped my handicap is committing to almost never hitting a full wedge. The partial wedge with slightly reduced spin has done wonders for my score. I think a ton of people in the 8-10 range (including at times myself) tell themselves they carry a full lob wedge say 75 yards. They hit a fantastic drive, get to the fairway, see they have 75 to a front pin and get excited ( what a perfect yardage!) Is it though? Absolute best case scenario you flush a full lob wedge it carries 75 yards and spins off the front of most receptive greens. Now you are pissed. I’ve gotten a lot better at just taking a sand wedge in that scenario, taking it back less far with identical setup and hitting the green/giving myself a birdie look. 

[fjk]

4 hours ago, angler99 said:

I hit a single digit a couple years ago and since have been hovering between 7.5 - 9, normally right at the 8.0 - 8.5 handicap. I worked really hard to get to a single digit but have just hit a wall. The frustrating thing is I don't know what to spend my time working on. If I go back through my rounds, nothing jumps out as a huge weakness. Nothing really jumps out as a huge strength either, except maybe fairways hit. I'll go back through my rounds and it will be like 1 ball OB off the tee, 1 3 putt, 2 bad chips, 1 duffed hybrid from the fairway, 2 pulled or blocked approach shots.

 

I think I need to hit more greens in regulation to get down to a 4 or 5, but I've focused hard practicing mid to short irons for the last 2 years. I'm talking like 5-6 range sessions a week.

 

Perhaps I'm not analyzing my rounds properly, but I'm at a bit of a loss on what I can work on to get better when everything just seems ok/average/whatever.

 

I suspect putting would pay off the most to make up for the random assortment of bad shots that happen throughout a round.

 

What do you guys work on when you are having trouble finding the weak link?

As someone else mentioned you would probably benefit from leaning into the advanced stats. There are a lot of shot-tracking tools out there and they seem to be very revealing as to where you are losing most shots or where you could focus on improvement, i.e. shots gained/lost.

 

You could consider going through the DECADE program - it goes through shot tracking but also systematic approaches to scoring and lowering your index. i.e. where you are aiming, club selection, etc. It integrates shots gained/lost so you can get an idea of where you would get the most yield. For example if you are laying up to 85 vs 125 and how much you are actually gaining in terms of expected shots to hole out, and whether you are taking the appropriate amount of risk (or avoiding risk) given what you are gaining or losing.

 

If you are practicing that much and know your dispersion then how to attack a green and prioritize all of the hazards around it might be useful for you to drop more shots off your index.

Edited August 28, 2023 by fjk

[dvq9654]

This is not meant to sound negative, but you probably don’t hit the ball as well as you think you do, and you probably have many ways you can improve your ball striking and short game. That’s not to say there are any glaring issues with your swing, but one thing I’m continually surprised by as I’ve gotten better is how much incremental improvement there is to be had with subtle, step-wise changes. You can always make your contact better, improve your start line, curve the ball more consistently, improve the consistency of your swing and, perhaps most importantly, limit the magnitude of your truly bad shots. 
 

My advice would be to get with a good teacher and slowly attack the low hanging fruit in your swing so you never truly stagnate, while also getting smarter on the golf course. The latter can be done via tracking stats, studying DECADE, you name it, but will certainly pay dividend. The former will give you something to do on the range / at the practice center and will make the game way more fun (maybe not immediately, but eventually). 

[kiwigolf72]

you can never hole too many putts inside 10ft.

[me05501]

I think all of us fall into roles we feel comfortable in and it makes it hard to break out of our ruts. Get yourself into some less comfortable situations and see how you manage it. 

 

One of the best days I've ever had on the course was in a scramble where I suddenly learned that I was the A player. I'm way more comfortable in the role of a weak B/strong C player but having the other players look to me as the leader of the team triggered a different level of performance for me in every facet of the game. It really took me by surprise in a good way. It let me know that better golf is in me if I can change my mentality and self-perception. 

 

Seek out the guys at your club who are better than you are and start playing some rounds with them. See how they attack your course and how you stack up.  

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by me05501

[Denny100]

Hope I dont sound weird suggesting this, Id work on grinding more.

 

Like, you shoot 80 lets say. 

 

Its probably like you didnt focus or try hard enough to make your 80 a 77.

 

I see this a lot to be honest, just seems so simple to cut this kind of thing out.

 

Actually TRY and make the lowest score you can rather than dazzle people with a bombed drive that could be middle of the fairway or middle of the trees.

 

Hit it to 25 feet in the green, rather than 25 feet OFF the green and have to play some sort of chip that has mess up potential.

 

Just play smart and keep a good focus to your round. If you make three bogeys in a row dont just go to hell with it and zone out for the rest of the day, try and stick with it etc etc

[kcpark87]

I’m a 7 and I think it’s always about subtle improvements to your game.

 

im hyper focused on putting, rolling the ball end over end and chipping around the greens. 
 

I supplement with a focus on mental game and physical fitness (weightlifting).

[MelloYello]

On 8/28/2023 at 2:00 PM, angler99 said:

I'll go back through my rounds and it will be like 1 ball OB off the tee, 1 3 putt, 2 bad chips, 1 duffed hybrid from the fairway, 2 pulled or blocked approach shots.

 

I think I need to hit more greens in regulation to get down to a 4 or 5, but I've focused hard practicing mid to short irons for the last 2 years. I'm talking like 5-6 range sessions a week.

 

Perhaps I'm not analyzing my rounds properly, but I'm at a bit of a loss on what I can work on to get better when everything just seems ok/average/whatever.

 

I suspect putting would pay off the most to make up for the random assortment of bad shots that happen throughout a round.

 

What do you guys work on when you are having trouble finding the weak link?

 

IDK, those all seem like perfectly good places to start, LOL. 

 

TBH, most golfers need to be working on everything to get into the low/mid-single figures. A golfer can't be handing out strokes by duffing anything or sending tee balls OB. It's hard to break 80 doing that stuff because it's so unlikely all the other shots will be great outside of those disaster shots.

 

3-putts happen (especially from certain far off or extreme spots) but low handicaps excel at advancing the ball forward, getting closer to the hole and executing the critical shots without huge mistakes. 

 

The best place to honestly start is with your GIR%. That is golf's most important stat. It tells you what index you should be. You can compare your average GIRs with where you need to be (Google average GIR-by-index). You'll likely need to improve. You can think about where and how. 

 

If you're already hitting GIRs like a 5-index you'll need to figure out why you're not carding scores like a 5-index. That could be the blow-up holes or short game issues. 

[D0ch0l1d4y]

OP -> Putting, putting, course management, then more putting.

 

I was a + for a long time, then life happens and I turned into a 5-7 and stayed there for the better part of a decade. I was tired of not being as good as I used to be, so started the same journey you are on...but I had some background information - what did I used to do well that I'm not doing well right now?

 

For me, playing time was part of it; hard to maintain any semblance of a decent game playing once a week or less, but that doesn't sound like an issue for you. 

 

Another part was course management. As @MonteScheinblum states above - I was trying shots that I used to be able to pull off.  Cutting corners off the tee. Laser-hook recovery shots instead of pitching out. Uber-spin pitches to tight pins. I stopped doing dumb things and dropped to a 3-4.  

 

Looking for other ways to save shots - I was averaging 35 putts a round. Ended up with a complimentary putter fitting at Club Champion and found that I was hitting a power fade...with a putter. Then happened to find this thread by @Obee and worked on getting a repeatable path that gets that true end-over-end roll.

 

 

That led down the rabbit hole and I ALSO found that I was not "seeing" the line correctly over the ball. Worked on adjusting my eyeline while putting and got to a place where I start the ball where it needs to go with a proper roll on it. This video (which I've posted pretty much everywhere in this forum) was a big part of getting me to where that's consistent with little thought.

 

Dropped to a 1.5 and stayed there for 3-4 years. Life is coming back at me, but I hover between a 1.5 and 2.5 and essentially play 6-10 rounds a year and maybe that many trips to the range.

 

I also need to hit more fairways. And more greens. And get up and down more. But that all comes with reps and work and time. Putting can be worked on any time, anywhere, and has consistent results.

[Primo1868]

On 8/28/2023 at 2:44 PM, MPStrat said:

If someone is an 7-8 index and they are only 3 putting once a round, ballstriking has a lot of room for improvement.

Just imagine how poorly I strike the ball averaging 1.8 putts per hole and 2.05 putts per GIR at an 8.0 handicap 🤣

[Primo1868]

On 8/28/2023 at 5:19 PM, angler99 said:

This sounds exactly like my bad rounds. Just a random assortment of poor shots.

I'm in a very similar boat as you. Unfortunately, I don't have the mental capacity to do the following every round (working on it), but, when I do I get good results:

Vision 54 is a human performance based concept that is a little bit of a rabbit hole to dig into. Here is a link for you to get started if interested: Our Truths — VISION54

 

I've been a listener of multiple different podcasts/social media posts including Vision 54 and truly believe in the concepts that they preach. Unfortunately, for me, it's a lot of work for me to stay engaged and perform well. For some it may come easy. For you it may work. 

 

From a high level, and my interpretation, here is what I try to apply to my golf game based on Vision 54 principles:

1) Think box vs. Play box - make sure when I'm at my bag (in think box) I'm identifying standard WELD principles: Wind, Elevation, Lie, Distance and committing to a chosen shot or shot shape. When I enter play box, I'm focused on target, intended shot shape, and execution.

2) I try to "grade" myself on how well I did the following (this is a test for mental engagement and keeping yourself even keel during the round):

               a) executed think box portion (Vision 54 asks for a 1-3 rating)

               b) executed play box portion (again, 1-3 rating)

               c) executed post shot review - as in strike quality, result, and acceptance (again, 1-3 rating)

3) I try to keep myself physically engaged - proper nutrition and hydration during the round.

 

 A really good example of someone who has learned the ability to "focus in" that the lay person can observe is a No Laying Up Video where they played with Max Homa. For the majority of the video, in between shots, he is cutting up and having a good time. From the ~45 seconds before he hits a golf ball, he is mentally dialed in and you can see it.

 

For every round that I seriously execute the above on every shot, I play well. The hard part for most is incorporating that into every shot. It's truly exhausting. 

 

 

 

[azone]

mental game; putting; putting; wedge game.

 

[TheDeanAbides]

How often are you hitting full shots into greens? How often are you pin seeking instead of going for a safe shot into the middle? 
 

When I was your standard I got stuck there for one reason - my putting was atrocious, and I didn’t want to work on it. You might not have such a glaring weakness, but I bet that you know what it is. Work on it.

 

 Golf becomes a lot easier when it’s boring. Keep it on the short stuff by keeping the ball under control by never going fully after it. 

[angler99]

On 9/14/2023 at 11:46 AM, TheDeanAbides said:

How often are you hitting full shots into greens? How often are you pin seeking instead of going for a safe shot into the middle? 
 

When I was your standard I got stuck there for one reason - my putting was atrocious, and I didn’t want to work on it. You might not have such a glaring weakness, but I bet that you know what it is. Work on it.

 

 Golf becomes a lot easier when it’s boring. Keep it on the short stuff by keeping the ball under control by never going fully after it. 

I don't hit full wedges into greens, but do hit full shots on the other irons.  I find that full shots are more consistent with me, but that could be a sign that I need to work more on ball striking.  My problem with taking a bit off of a 7 iron instead of hitting a full 8 iron is that I end up hitting the easy 7 iron longer than a normal full 7 iron.  I haven't practiced enough less-than-full shots to have a feel for the average distances.  This isn't to say that my full shots are going after it 100%, more of my comfortable cruising speed.

 

I don't pin seek very often and it would only be in a situation where a miss would put me in a good spot to get up and down and not be short-sided or left with an impossible chip.

 

I got a lesson with Monte and he's identified some issues I have in my swing that are holding me back from improving. I think a lot of this comes down to my swing and I need to work on that to prevent the random errant shots costing me strokes in the round.

[naval2006]

I’ve been playing 5 to 7 for like 15 years now. I’d summarize how I build my scores this way. I’m a decent putter and driver of the ball. The rest, well it can be a good bun with Bologna or ribeye steak in the middle, depending on the day. 
 

Good ballstriking day: decent score

Good putting day: decent to very good score

Bad putting day:  mediocre score

Bad ballstriking day: I got incensed 

My short game, esp. around the green, is my weakness so I think it’s more detrimental than a help for scoring purposes. 
 

There’s something else about my way that doesn’t shine but it counts in the end: I can spend rounds at my course without shooting more than bogey. 
 

The lower the handicap the more about details this game becomes. A sound single digit should no longer be thinking about technical issues through the round because a wider view is required to deal with the details.