Snap Hooks Only with Driver

[JBerenger]

For reference I am a college golfer, I exclusively hit fades off the tee and stock shot is a fade with irons, my entire golfing life my driver has never been an issue I have always been a good driver of the golf ball, was hitting driver possibly the best I have ever hit it in my life all summer long and then all the sudden since about the last week of august I am completely lost off the tee, the rest of my game is perfectly fine, I have had 3 different pga pros look at my swing and I have gotten 3 different responses I am at the point that I am considering just taking my driver out of my golf bag because its not even worth hitting it. Anyone have any recommendations of something I could try either with my swing, ball position, tee height, or quite literally anything at all would be great. Thanks

Edited September 11, 2023 by JBerenger

[JBerenger]

 

[MonteScheinblum]

There are residual affects to this, but I’d start with the fact you are way too close to the ball with too much weight in your toes.  That’s a difficult combination to over come.

 

Farther from the ball and weight more centered on your feet, your swing will change drastically, so give the setup change several weeks before you worry about any swing issues.

[TLUBulldogGolf]

Is the face failed? 

[JBerenger]

1 minute ago, MonteScheinblum said:

There are residual affects to this, but I’d start with the fact you are way too close to the ball with too much weight in your toes.  That’s a difficult combination to over come.

 

Farther from the ball and weight more centered on your feet, your swing will change drastically, so give the setup change several weeks before you worry about any swing issues.

 

Thank you I will try this.

[JBerenger]

1 minute ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

Is the face failed? 

 

I don't think so, and I work at a golf retailer and even when I'm messing around with different drivers its the same result, sub 1000 spin rates 1300 at best. 

[Primo1868]

Have you sprayed the face with foot spray to note impact location?

[TLUBulldogGolf]

27 minutes ago, JBerenger said:

 

I don't think so, and I work at a golf retailer and even when I'm messing around with different drivers its the same result, sub 1000 spin rates 1300 at best. 

Pretty natural result of what sounds like a smother hook. Face more open will resolve that. I’d defer to Monte’s advice as far as swing/setup.

[Trevorr]

41 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

There are residual affects to this, but I’d start with the fact you are way too close to the ball with too much weight in your toes.  That’s a difficult combination to over come.

 

Farther from the ball and weight more centered on your feet, your swing will change drastically, so give the setup change several weeks before you worry about any swing issues.

I used to swing like this, partially driven by playing reaction sports my whole life. I "fixed" my setup by leaning back more - which was really uncomfortable at first and trying to hit more off my heels, with a follow through feeling of a smushing, grinding, pivoting motion on the lead heel through impact. On mishits I am cutting the ball 15-20 yards and on good strikes the ball either goes straight or draws a little bit. You have really good swing speed and seequencing.

[Righty to Lefty]

50 minutes ago, JBerenger said:

For reference I am a college golfer, I exclusively hit fades off the tee and stock shot is a fade with irons, my entire golfing life my driver has never been an issue I have always been a good driver of the golf ball, was hitting driver possibly the best I have ever hit it in my life all summer long (76 at Bethpage Black from the tips) and then all the sudden since about the last week of august I am completely lost off the tee, the rest of my game is perfectly fine, I have had 3 different pga pros look at my swing and I have gotten 3 different responses I am at the point that I am considering just taking my driver out of my golf bag because its not even worth hitting it. Anyone have any recommendations of something I could try either with my swing, ball position, tee height, or quite literally anything at all would be great. Thanks

Do you understand your ball flight laws and d plane principles?  I ask because if you do then will know that you can correct a hook in one of two ways...well three...club face adjustment, club path adjustment, or a combo of the two.  

1. Club Face Adjustment - Open the club face a few degree from how you usually hold the club then take your grip while changing nothing else. This will soften your draw because it will reduce the difference between your club face to path at impact. 

2.Club Plane/Shoulder Line Adjustment - While keeping everything else the same, rotate your shoulder line in a semicircle to your right a few degrees. This will make you strike the ball earlier in your swing arc while more loft is still being presented and this will also reduce your face to path relationship at impact. 

3. Adjust Both Face and Plane - Open the face a few degrees, and rotate your plane/ shoulder line a few degrees to the right. This will also begin to neutralize your shot curvature.  

 

Once you soften the shot shape to the desired amount, then you can begin to recalibrate your start line to make the shot finish on the target line.  You must constantly be making these adjustments as you move though a given round as the signs that you are losing control don't happen all of a sudden and creep in slowly if you are paying attention to the strike and flight of the ball on every shot you hit.  You likely thought that you were okay because got away with the shots not realizing that you were hinging on the verge of disaster.  This is just the introductory information to a deeper topic so I'm sure you will have questions and do hesitate to ask and I will respond but do not change your swing motion as that is an absolute last resort.  @TheDeanAbides this is what I mean by someone not understanding the fundamentals of impact and it has a college golfer in here ready to give up their swing motion after hitting it bad for 2 weeks because I assure you that 99% of the comments will be suggesting that the fix be for him to change his swing motion, when that is not the solution.  

[TheDeanAbides]

17 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

Do you understand your ball flight laws and d plane principles?  I ask because if you do then will know that you can correct a hook in one of two ways...well three...club face adjustment, club path adjustment, or a combo of the two.  

1. Club Face Adjustment - Open the club face a few degree from how you usually hold the club then take your grip while changing nothing else. This will soften your draw because it will reduce the difference between your club face to path at impact. 

2.Club Plane/Shoulder Line Adjustment - While keeping everything else the same, rotate your shoulder line in a semicircle to your right a few degrees. This will make you strike the ball earlier in your swing arc while more loft is still being presented and this will also reduce your face to path relationship at impact. 

3. Adjust Both Face and Plane - Open the face a few degrees, and rotate your plane/ shoulder line a few degrees to the right. This will also begin to neutralize your shot curvature.  

 

Once you soften the shot shape to the desired amount, then you can begin to recalibrate your start line to make the shot finish on the target line.  You must constantly be making these adjustments as you move though a given round as the signs that you are losing control don't happen all of a sudden and creep in slowly if you are paying attention to the strike and flight of the ball on every shot you hit.  You likely thought that you were okay because got away with the shots not realizing that you were hinging on the verge of disaster.  This is just the introductory information to a deeper topic so I'm sure you will have questions and do hesitate to ask and I will respond but do not change your swing motion as that is an absolute last resort.  @TheDeanAbides this is what I mean by someone not understanding the fundamentals of impact and it has a college golfer in here ready to give up their swing motion after hitting it bad for 2 weeks because I assure you that 99% of the comments will be suggesting that the fix be for him to change his swing motion, when that is not the solution.  

Sorry, but I’m gonna go with Monte on this. 

[cardoustie]

Seems like a lot of tilt away coming thru to me, side view?

[JBerenger]

@MonteScheinblum

@cardoustie

@Righty to Lefty

Face on view

[GoldenAges]

Without overcomplicating things, you are closed at the top and releasing the club through the ball. Closed to closed. You need to adjust the swing to release the club square to the target.

 

The first step to curing the hooks is to try to slice the ball. Hit a few hooks, a few slices and find the middle ground. As a self taught player this is my procedure.

Good luck.

[TLUBulldogGolf]

Might be a bad angle but ball position seems too far forward. You move a lot off the ball and then don't really shift back to your lead side enough.

[getitdaily]

11 minutes ago, JBerenger said:

@MonteScheinblum

@cardoustie

@Righty to Lefty

Face on view

Ball is too far forward, especially for how much you move off the ball. Big lateral forces in action. Playing a fade with a Ball position that is at a point where the face should be closed to path, combined with a big lateral move into the ball that causes path to tend to want to be more in to out.

 

Your setup puts you in hook city unless you manipulate things with the hands or an extreme path.

 

Ball back about 2 balls at address. Then figure out how lateral you want to be. You may want to tame that lateral move...may

[Valtiel]

21 minutes ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

Might be a bad angle but ball position seems too far forward. You move a lot off the ball and then don't really shift back to your lead side enough.

 

13 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

Ball is too far forward, especially for how much you move off the ball. Big lateral forces in action. Playing a fade with a Ball position that is at a point where the face should be closed to path, combined with a big lateral move into the ball that causes path to tend to want to be more in to out.

 

Your setup puts you in hook city unless you manipulate things with the hands or an extreme path.

 

Ball back about 2 balls at address. Then figure out how lateral you want to be. You may want to tame that lateral move...may

Agreed with these + what Monte said above about setup. 

@JBerenger You're definitely managing some extremes here. Having the ball that far forward AND shifting that far further behind it in the backswing are two things that aren't inherently problems in isolation but together create a pretty weird set of requirements for delivery:



You look like you're hitting almost 10* up on the ball while desperately holding on to your wrist angles which if released would produce something that "hook" wouldn't even begin to describe, lol. You're basically creating long drive delivery conditions here. Combine that with the fact you have a strong grip and a shut clubface at the top and you're basically relying on both the impressive physical ability to get wide open and side bent into oblivion ala Joaquin Niemann and a complete hold-off of your release to keep the ball from hooking. To have always played fades from this position is interesting and it would be super helpful if you had older videos to see if anything changed noticeably from the Summer. It's not uncommon for ball position and subsequently AoA to start creeping up which could be placing more strain on your already extreme delivery and I agree with the guys above re: neutralizing some of these elements. Hitting this up on the ball from so far behind it is always tough to control. 

[Chunkitgood]

Do you have video hitting an iron?

[getitdaily]

7 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

 

Agreed with these + what Monte said above about setup. 

@JBerenger You're definitely managing some extremes here. Having the ball that far forward AND shifting that far further behind it in the backswing are two things that aren't inherently problems in isolation but together create a pretty weird set of requirements for delivery:



You look like you're hitting almost 10* up on the ball while desperately holding on to your wrist angles which if released would produce something that "hook" wouldn't even begin to describe, lol. You're basically creating long drive delivery conditions here. Combine that with the fact you have a strong grip and a shut clubface at the top and you're basically relying on both the impressive physical ability to get wide open and side bent into oblivion ala Joaquin Niemann and a complete hold-off of your release to keep the ball from hooking. To have always played fades from this position is interesting and it would be super helpful if you had older videos to see if anything changed noticeably from the Summer. It's not uncommon for ball position and subsequently AoA to start creeping up which could be placing more strain on your already extreme delivery and I agree with the guys above re: neutralizing some of these elements. Hitting this up on the ball from so far behind it is always tough to control. 

I'm willing to bet that through trial and error, he found the ball position that he could get to fade with that big lateral move.

 

Ask me how I know...lol

[MonteScheinblum]

Ball also way too far forward.  You need to work on your setup and nothing else.  Give your body several weeks to adapt before any swing changes should be addressed.

 

To be blunt, setup is way off and any and all of the residual “swing faults” are directly or indirectly related to poor setup.

[MonteScheinblum]

1 minute ago, getitdaily said:

I'm willing to bet that through trial and error, he found the ball position that he could get to fade with that big lateral move.

 

Ask me how I know...lol

….and the big lateral move is likely a compensation to create some space because he’s way too close with weight on toes.

[getitdaily]

2 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

….and the big lateral move is likely a compensation to create some space because he’s way too close with weight on toes.

Makes sense. I never had a space problem...call me jack reacher...

[Cliffy2020]

I almost quit the game my senior year after developing uncontrollable hooks with woods.  It was so bad I played irons only and teed of with a 2-iron.  That cleaned up my penalty shots per round and I shot pretty good scores but took my biggest weapons out of the bag.

 

Long story short and a quick fix worth trying (it’s free and immediate) - double overlap grip with Driver.  Just make sure there’s no women, children or other expensive things left of the driving range when you try it!  You’re welcome. 

[getitdaily]

54 minutes ago, Cliffy2020 said:

I almost quit the game my senior year after developing uncontrollable hooks with woods.  It was so bad I played irons only and teed of with a 2-iron.  That cleaned up my penalty shots per round and I shot pretty good scores but took my biggest weapons out of the bag.

 

Long story short and a quick fix worth trying (it’s free and immediate) - double overlap grip with Driver.  Just make sure there’s no women, children or other expensive things left of the driving range when you try it!  You’re welcome. 

No. Not for what we see in his videos. Much bigger fish than what you're suggesting. 

[Cwebb]

3 hours ago, JBerenger said:

@MonteScheinblum

@cardoustie

@Righty to Lefty

Face on view

 

Well there's your answer.  Your ball position is way too far forward, resulting in different path and face angles at impact compared to the rest of your clubs that you hit off the deck

 

Tee it lower, with less than half the ball above the top-line when soled, and move it back towards your arm pit

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

3 hours ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

You move a lot off the ball and then don't really shift back to your lead side enough.

Especially this last part.  You move like someone who really knows what they're doing----I dream of getting that kind of side-bend through impact---but you get back to your lead side a lot later than most pros, IMHO.  And since you otherwise move a lot like they do, that's who I'll compare you to.  Trail side hip seems to get forward earlier than it should too?

 

I'd listen to Monte.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Jayjay_theweim_guy

[Cliffy2020]

2 hours ago, getitdaily said:

No. Not for what we see in his videos. Much bigger fish than what you're suggesting. 

Just let him send a few off the planet to the left before you tell him not to try it....  

 

You're ruing all the fun!

It’s a really, really effective anti-hook tool. 
 

Caveat: (try all the other stuff first.  This is more of a “I ain’t got  time to fix it kinda fix”

[cardoustie]

Move ball back, try to feel like you’re hitting down on it 

[Righty to Lefty]

16 hours ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

Might be a bad angle but ball position seems too far forward. You move a lot off the ball and then don't really shift back to your lead side enough.

 

16 hours ago, getitdaily said:

Ball is too far forward, especially for how much you move off the ball. Big lateral forces in action. Playing a fade with a Ball position that is at a point where the face should be closed to path, combined with a big lateral move into the ball that causes path to tend to want to be more in to out.

 

Your setup puts you in hook city unless you manipulate things with the hands or an extreme path.

 

Ball back about 2 balls at address. Then figure out how lateral you want to be. You may want to tame that lateral move...may

How can you possibly know if the ball is too far forward if you did not see the resulting ball flight?  Ball position is relative to how high he has the ball up because if he hits the ball square to the swing arc it will be straight away ball flight so this is literally grasping at straws and guessing because there was no mention of the ball flight that resulted from this exact shot.  If the ball was too far forward or back it would create poor impact because he would be out of position to the ball, but if it is struck out of the center of the club then the ball was in the correct location, but that is only the first step.  

 

Every shot should be analyzed in this order: 

1. Strike - If the strike was good move on...if not disregard the result and go find strike

2. Start Direction - If the start direction was good move on...if not go find it while maintaining strike.

3. Curvature - If it was good move on...If not plane/shoulder line, club face, or a combo of both need to be adjusted to create a given amount of curvature of the shot and this is what I suggested to you earlier. 

4. Speed - The only factor that you should be worried about as you stand over the ball as the other three should have be predicted in your pre shot routine.  You decide how much speed is injected into the shot and over time you will develop distance control.  

 

A ball being hit up on off of a high tee should be hit further forward in the swing arc and teeing it lower in no way fixes anything it just means that you will strike the shot closer to the low point of the swing arc. 

Berkshire's low point of his swing arc is well behind this ball which allows him to hit up on it and hit it out of the middle of the face.  This is what has to happen the higher that you tee the ball.  

 

Matter of fact this is me hitting a ball off a 4 inch tee just like Berkshire is using only I hover the club over my low point so that it can be seen and I am not even looking at the ball.  My low point is some 2 feet behind the ball so that I can hit up on it and strike it out of the middle.  This shot was struck well and has no curvature to it because it is being struck square to the arc and all shots stuck square to the swing arc fly straight. 

 

Face On:

 

DTL: 

Notice that I never mentioned your swing motion.  That is because once you learn how to get yourself into the correct orientation to the ball, your swing motion will calm and a lot of "flaws" will smooth themselves out over time.  That being said none of us are perfect athletes, except for maybe Adam Scott, so even when you are hitting the ball with max efficiency it will still visually not look perfect I assure you but IMPACT IS BOSS AND THAT IS WHERE YOUR FOCUS SHOULD ALWAYS BE!  

[getitdaily]

27 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

 

How can you possibly know if the ball is too far forward if you did not see the resulting ball flight?  Ball position is relative to how high he has the ball up because if he hits the ball square to the swing arc it will be straight away ball flight so this is literally grasping at straws and guessing because there was no mention of the ball flight that resulted from this exact shot.  If the ball was too far forward or back it would create poor impact because he would be out of position to the ball, but if it is struck out of the center of the club then the ball was in the correct location, but that is only the first step.  

 

Every shot should be analyzed in this order: 

1. Strike - If the strike was good move on...if not disregard the result and go find strike

2. Start Direction - If the start direction was good move on...if not go find it while maintaining strike.

3. Curvature - If it was good move on...If not plane/shoulder line, club face, or a combo of both need to be adjusted to create a given amount of curvature of the shot and this is what I suggested to you earlier. 

4. Speed - The only factor that you should be worried about as you stand over the ball as the other three should have be predicted in your pre shot routine.  You decide how much speed is injected into the shot and over time you will develop distance control.  

 

A ball being hit up on off of a high tee should be hit further forward in the swing arc and teeing it lower in no way fixes anything it just means that you will strike the shot closer to the low point of the swing arc. 

Berkshire's low point of his swing arc is well behind this ball which allows him to hit up on it and hit it out of the middle of the face.  This is what has to happen the higher that you tee the ball.  

 

Matter of fact this is me hitting a ball off a 4 inch tee just like Berkshire is using only I hover the club over my low point so that it can be seen and I am not even looking at the ball.  My low point is some 2 feet behind the ball so that I can hit up on it and strike it out of the middle.  This shot was struck well and has no curvature to it because it is being struck square to the arc and all shots stuck square to the swing arc fly straight. 

 

Face On:

 

DTL: 

Notice that I never mentioned your swing motion.  That is because once you learn how to get yourself into the correct orientation to the ball, your swing motion will calm and a lot of "flaws" will smooth themselves out over time.  That being said none of us are perfect athletes, except for maybe Adam Scott, so even when you are hitting the ball with max efficiency it will still visually not look perfect I assure you but IMPACT IS BOSS AND THAT IS WHERE YOUR FOCUS SHOULD ALWAYS BE!  

Ummm, no.

 

Get back to me when you understand swing arc and where the face tends to want to point at various parts of that swing arch.

 

Ball is too far forward. Ball that far forward should see a path that is at least 3 degrees in...sometimes more. The face should be closed at that point so he's manipulating release to hold off hitting it a mile right (lefty hook). Except now he's not able to hold off the release. 

 

Furthermore, he's already told us he's hitting hooks. So...

Edited September 12, 2023 by getitdaily