Distance

[kekoa]

Is there anything worse than waiting for your junior to start bombing the ball?  I know a few of you are in the same boat.  We were blessed with a late bloomer who just isn't hitting far enough to compete on longer set ups in the 6,600 to 6,800 range.  My son played in a qualifier over the weekend and he stated that there are at least 4 par 4's that he was unable to reach in regulation.  Heck, I'm not sure I would even be able to reach them.   He even had to hit a driver on one of the par 3's due to wind.

 

Just a frustrating process as I feel the only thing lacking in his game is distance.  On the flip-side I've also heard about kids who gained distance and they were no better than they were previously.  This scares me, but I know its a real thing.

[ColdandUgly33]

My son is in a similar boat as he's always been just slightly ahead of average distance but never as long as the huge hitters.  We try to see it as a blessing since it has given him great hands around the greens and amazing mid to long iron accuracy.  

[wegobomber31]

I see it as a blessing in disguise as figuring out how to score well from further back is an acquired skill. Even if your son does gain distance there probably will always be somebody hitting it 40+ yards further than him. 

[Pepperturbo]

Some people can enjoy many golf attributes but lack distance, and others are late bloomers.  There's a trending theory with young kids, teach them to hit the ball as hard as possible, and let them develop the rest of the game as they go.  There is something to that theory.  My niece plays on the HS Boy's team because she hits the ball as far as the boys.  By college, she will be a long hitter for girls.

 

LOL Not long back I was playing a 255yd par 3 into a 3-4 club wind, it necessitated Driver to apron, wedge to 1' for tap in par. 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Pepperturbo

[leezer99]

Train speed. 
 

Take 5 balls and have him go after them. Pay no mind to where they go. Average the club head speed and that’s your baseline. 
 

Now you’re playing 3 strikes. 
 

Player now tees up one ball and has to beat that average number. If he does then that’s a hit and he gets to hit another one trying to beat that new top speed. Once he fails to beat his top speed that’s a strike and he has to take a 3-5 minute break. On his next ball he has to beat his top speed again. If he does, keep going. If not, that’s strike 2 and another 3-5 minute break. Once he has 3 strikes you’re done speed training for the day. 

 

EDIT: I know a bunch of you will try this and be surprised that you only hit a few balls. That's OK!! Once you've reached your peak speed, it is detrimental to keep doing this drill. You want to train speed so don't keep going if they fall below their peak.  And as my guy Tony Holler says: Record, Rank & Publish. 

Edited October 31, 2023 by leezer99

[mgoblue83]

You can and should be trying to increase his speed through targeted practice. @leezer99 provided a good starting point but there are lots of tools available (Speedsticks and others). 

 

Higher speed = higher potential and as you are finding out if you don't have enough speed you simply can't compete. 

 

I coach the girls and boys high school teams and we work on speed every day even with our long hitters. We still work on accuracy and distance control but in my experience a player with a wedge out of the rough is going to score better than a player with 7i in the fairway almost every time. 

Edited October 30, 2023 by mgoblue83

[kekoa]

24 minutes ago, leezer99 said:

Train speed. 
 

Take 5 balls and have him go after them. Pay no mind to where they go. Average the club head speed and that’s your baseline. 
 

Now you’re playing 3 strikes. 
 

Player now tees up one ball and has to beat that average number. If he does then that’s a hit and he gets to hit another one trying to beat that new top speed. Once he fails to beat his top speed that’s a strike and he has to take a 3-5 minute break. On his next ball he has to beat his top speed again. If he does, keep going. If not, that’s strike 2 and another 3-5 minute break. Once he has 3 strikes you’re done speed training for the day. 

 

Yup.  His trainer said to hit 10 drivers as hard as he can paying no attention to form or dispersion.  We use carry as the base as I don't think the gc3 reads CH speed without the stickers.

 

On a sidenote, how important is training to the process right now.  He's not doing any weights at all.  Just resistance bands, balance drills, push ups, and light medicine balls.  I don't feel like paying a trainer, but my son is convinced it helps him.  We quit the program for a few months, but may end up signing back up for good until he reaches high school and can train with a team.

 

I swear this distance thing is like having a 2022 5 series while your neighbor drives a 2023 M5 Competition.  Your car is great, but the neighbor gets all the attention and chicks.  lmao!!!

[mgoblue83]

2 minutes ago, kekoa said:

 

Yup.  His trainer said to hit 10 drivers as hard as he can paying no attention to form or dispersion.  We use carry as the base as I don't think the gc3 reads CH speed without the stickers.

 

On a sidenote, how important is training to the process right now.  He's not doing any weights at all.  Just resistance bands, balance drills, push ups, and light medicine balls.  I don't feel like paying a trainer, but my son is convinced it helps him.  We quit the program for a few months, but may end up signing back up for good until he reaches high school and can train with a team.

 

I swear this distance thing is like having a 2022 5 series while your neighbor drives a 2023 M5 Competition.  Your car is great, but the neighbor gets all the attention and chicks.  lmao!!!

 

How old is he? Has he gone through puberty?

 

Increasing speed requires better sequencing AND more applied force. The best way to do it is a combination of swing work, gym work and speed training. If he hasn't been through puberty you can still do gym work just make sure it's with a qualified coach or trainer so he doesn't get injured. 

[kekoa]

19 minutes ago, mgoblue83 said:

 

How old is he? Has he gone through puberty?

 

Increasing speed requires better sequencing AND more applied force. The best way to do it is a combination of swing work, gym work and speed training. If he hasn't been through puberty you can still do gym work just make sure it's with a qualified coach or trainer so he doesn't get injured. 

He's 13.  Still a baby weighing in at 84 lbs. 😞

[DFS PFD]

5 minutes ago, kekoa said:

He's 13.  Still a baby weighing in at 84 lbs. 😞

In that case patience is your best bet, and really emphasize short game so when he grows he'll already have a solid foundation. 

[TroyB123]

We have a few good tours with strong fields with 13-15 age groups that play more like 6300-6500 at that age.    I know a few jump straight from <6000 to 6700-7000 around that age, but tried to avoid those in the 13-14 years.   6800 seems like a lot to ask of a small 13 yo.  I imagine a few courses would have forced carries that might be impossible.

[mgoblue83]

1 hour ago, kekoa said:

He's 13.  Still a baby weighing in at 84 lbs. 😞

 

I'd still recommend some speed training and there is nothing wrong with gym work as long as he isn't going super heavy. The most important thing is he needs to be swinging with 100% effort on the driver - especially during practice. Make sure he maintains fundamentals like a solid back swing, posture, and balance but encourage him to absolutely let it rip without fear and it will come sooner than you think.

[kekoa]

41 minutes ago, TroyB123 said:

We have a few good tours with strong fields with 13-15 age groups that play more like 6300-6500 at that age.    I know a few jump straight from <6000 to 6700-7000 around that age, but tried to avoid those in the 13-14 years.   6800 seems like a lot to ask of a small 13 yo.  I imagine a few courses would have forced carries that might be impossible.

 

Yup we have those here too.  We didn't jump straight to longer yardages, but its the next step and kids are doing it sooner than later.  I agree that 6,800 is a lot to ask.  Its crazy how long some of the junior courses are, but I also get that they have some much older kids in the field that need to be challenged as well.  

[golferdad8]

Yes, depending on age it's prob good to hold off on heavy weight training.

However, it's not too early for speed sticks & squats/jumping to develop burst. 

[ColdandUgly33]

I'm curious what everyone's junior's age, size and driver carry distance is.  My son is 13, 5'2", 100 pounds, and carries it 210 average, 220 max as measured on a trackman. 

[leezer99]

5 hours ago, kekoa said:

 

Yup.  His trainer said to hit 10 drivers as hard as he can paying no attention to form or dispersion.  We use carry as the base as I don't think the gc3 reads CH speed without the stickers.

 

On a sidenote, how important is training to the process right now.  He's not doing any weights at all.  Just resistance bands, balance drills, push ups, and light medicine balls.  I don't feel like paying a trainer, but my son is convinced it helps him.  We quit the program for a few months, but may end up signing back up for good until he reaches high school and can train with a team.

 

I swear this distance thing is like having a 2022 5 series while your neighbor drives a 2023 M5 Competition.  Your car is great, but the neighbor gets all the attention and chicks.  lmao!!!

 

The GC3 should read clubhead speed with one sticker. Easy enough to perform the training IMO. The 3-strike plan comes from TPI so take it or leave it. 

 

How important is training? That's not something I could answer definitively for you but anecdotally I can say that my gymnastics daughter is 12 and probably stronger than most boys her age. She has the callouses to prove it from working out 20 hours per week. My son didn't start working out until high school and was coached by their HS S&C coach who is pretty good about developing explosive athletes. He got up to 118 CHS over the summer but his cruising speed is probably around 111-112. (He slowed down a lot these past few months during a major swing change)

 

For success on TTC you need one thing... be able to hit 200 yard par 3's consistently. If you have to hit 3w or driver then maybe it's not time yet. 

 

 

[Kcct82]

1 hour ago, ColdandUgly33 said:

I'm curious what everyone's junior's age, size and driver carry distance is.  My son is 13, 5'2", 100 pounds, and carries it 210 average, 220 max as measured on a trackman. 

Just turned 11 yesterday. Maxed out at 165yds carry (Trackman). 56.5” tall and weighs 77lbs. 

[leezer99]

1 minute ago, Kcct82 said:

Just turned 11 yesterday. Maxed out at 165yds carry (Trackman). 56.5” tall and weighs 77lbs. 

 

Happy birthday to the little man! He's probably ready for blades now. 🤣

[AUSweeper]

I feel you.  My oldest was struggling when he was 13, then gained about 60-70 yards from the time he was 13.5 until he turned 14 recently.  He had a big growth spurt and he also had a weightlifting class at school.  There were long par 3’s that he would have to layup on.  Impossible to be too competitive doing that.  

[DArnie]

6 hours ago, kekoa said:

He's 13.  Still a baby weighing in at 84 lbs. 😞

It'll get better. I know how you feel. My son didn't reach puberty until 15 and was always a short hitter. Some boys were 13-14 and already hitting it 275 and my son was always 30-40 yards behind. He beat most of them though but it is difficult to compete with some who were longer than him and had decent short games.  

 

My son is now 17 and a Jr. in HS he's 6'1 and average SS is 113; all out 118 and continues to try to get it higher. He works out at PE in school with the other HS athletes and it shows. He started lifting weights in middle school PE classes. Does your son's school have classes where he can workout? At 84 lbs. he could maybe use Protein shakes? Your son's distance will come, usually in increments of 10-15 yds. overnight, usually how it works.

 

I have about 30 Jrs. I teach. Only two of them I have to dial back their swings as they get wild, out of sequence and off balance with their drivers. The others I try to get them to swing as fast as they can with their drivers as long as they can maintain their balance and hold their finish. To me, the guys with the best sequencing becomes the longer, straighter hitters even if they were short before puberty. And I would encourage speed training as mentioned above. Your son will be fine but I know for a fact with my son, it can be hard and discouraging but it will get better. Keep him encouraged.

 

 

[caligolfer2103]

3 hours ago, ColdandUgly33 said:

I'm curious what everyone's junior's age, size and driver carry distance is.  My son is 13, 5'2", 100 pounds, and carries it 210 average, 220 max as measured on a trackman. 

My son is almost 13. 5' 4", ~100lbs. Just upgraded to an adult driver. Carries it 215-220 average.

[wildcatden]

Soon to be 13YO in December, 5'1", ~98lbs.  175 yard carry with 77-78mph clubhead speed measured back on August 12th with a Mevo+ and range balls. Total on the Mevo+ showed in the 200-210yd range.

 

Played his last tournament on August 13th. Couldn't break 80 from 5600-5800 yards. Only broke 80 in tournaments once all summer.  Hasn't touched a club since. I don't know if he will ever play again.

[kekoa]

1 hour ago, DArnie said:

It'll get better. I know how you feel. My son didn't reach puberty until 15 and was always a short hitter. Some boys were 13-14 and already hitting it 275 and my son was always 30-40 yards behind. He beat most of them though but it is difficult to compete with some who were longer than him and had decent short games.  

 

My son is now 17 and a Jr. in HS he's 6'1 and average SS is 113; all out 118 and continues to try to get it higher. He works out at PE in school with the other HS athletes and it shows. He started lifting weights in middle school PE classes. Does your son's school have classes where he can workout? At 84 lbs. he could maybe use Protein shakes? Your son's distance will come, usually in increments of 10-15 yds. overnight, usually how it works.

 

I have about 30 Jrs. I teach. Only two of them I have to dial back their swings as they get wild, out of sequence and off balance with their drivers. The others I try to get them to swing as fast as they can with their drivers as long as they can maintain their balance and hold their finish. To me, the guys with the best sequencing becomes the longer, straighter hitters even if they were short before puberty. And I would encourage speed training as mentioned above. Your son will be fine but I know for a fact with my son, it can be hard and discouraging but it will get better. Keep him encouraged.

 

 

Hey @DArnie that was extremely helpful.  Yes, he takes protein shakes but is an extremely picky eater.  Also, whatever he eats is burned off during the day as he is just very active and has a high metabolism.  

 

His school does not have any classes where he can workout.  This year he is doing independent PE.  On days he gets off early, we either go to the course or he does training.  A few months ago, the trainer started doing superspeed sticks with him.  They also hit 10 drives on trackman working on speed.  His longest today was 240 with roll.  He is definitely making some improvements.

 

If it takes 18 more months to reach puberty we may just go full pickleball.  I'm joking but not really.  

[kekoa]

2 hours ago, AUSweeper said:

I feel you.  My oldest was struggling when he was 13, then gained about 60-70 yards from the time he was 13.5 until he turned 14 recently.  He had a big growth spurt and he also had a weightlifting class at school.  There were long par 3’s that he would have to layup on.  Impossible to be too competitive doing that.  

Awesome to hear.  I've heard about kids making gains like that.  Hopefully it is helping him in tournaments. 

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

10 hours ago, kekoa said:

Awesome to hear.  I've heard about kids making gains like that.  Hopefully it is helping him in tournaments. 

The struggle is real my friend.  My son was a late bloomer.  He started golf late as well.

 

I have pictures of him at regional tournaments 16yo and I can't believe that is him now. Even his freshman year of college he grew a couple of inches,

 

At 16 he wasn't a bomber but his short game was always there.

 

When it finally comes for your son and it will.  It's a great thing to watch.

[Tugu]

22 hours ago, kekoa said:

He's 13.  Still a baby weighing in at 84 lbs. 😞

Please eat ALOT more.😁

 

Plus you are aligned with one of THE best coaches for blending golf and speed together.

[leezer99]

27 minutes ago, Tugu said:

Please eat ALOT more.😁

 

Plus you are aligned with one of THE best coaches for blending golf and speed together.

As another member told me “egg him to death”. But with any increase in protein intake, be prepared for the farts. 

[MB19]

My son is 10.5/61"/100 lbs, and three weeks ago he had a 76ss as measured on TM (our Mevo+ read the same numbers) at a USKG Regional.  He was really getting frustrated with not being longer than some of his smaller counterparts during tournaments.  A typical carry for him was 150-165 range.  

 

A week after this tournament, my two older kids went on a week's trip with their grandparents and they took a small set of clubs and a set of SuperSpeed sticks with them.  Maybe a miracle happened, maybe it was a culmination of his hard work, maybe it was both, but when they returned from the trip his swing speed touched 84 once on the Mevo+ and lived in the 82-83 range.  His carry was spiking to 180, and rollouts to 200 were no longer a figment of his imagination. 

 

There is no one thing I can say that triggered his gainz, but he's been working hard and chasing it.  I know that his length is unremarkable for his size compared to his competition (pre-teen FL juniors), but this jump was important to him.  The USKG Regional he played was just short of 5,000yd, and every green seemed to be elevated from the approach.  It was a frustrating weekend, but it was excellent motivator for him.

 

My daughter is 12/64"/115 with an 84ss.  She can carry 185 when she gets it all, but 175 is more consistent.  This is roughly where most of her 12yo competition is at right now, as she's in the 85% according to the USKG chart they gave us at PGA Village. She's been stuck at 84 for about 8 months, so I'm thinking she is due for another bump.  She isn't as dedicated to training as my son, so who knows when the jump happens

[yellowlover519]

Keep in mind that kids grow at different ages.  My son grew close to 6 inches when he was 14 and his ball speed jumped dramatically.  He wasn't necessarily a short hitter, but definitely not the longest at ages 10-12.  I'm not sure if it was a growth spurt or the fact that he got stronger through mandatory training in other sports and working out.  He only weighs around 130, but he has around 158-160 ball speed with a tourney swing.  And the efficiency goes down when he tries to swing out of his shoes, so not sure if just swinging as hard as you can is the blueprint.  I think it's more puberty, growth and working out.

 

At 15, he's about 5'10", he plays a driver that is 44.75".  We don't get more speed or better numbers with a standard length driver.    As long as you are optimized at 150+ ball speed, your junior should be able to easily compete on setups 7000 or less.  Obviously, if your child gets to 170+ ball speed and isn't wild, that's a huge advantage, but we're still working to get more speed through working out as opposed to speed stick type training.

 

As far as not necessarily getting better with speed, I've seen that with other kids as well as my son's game.  My son's weakness has always been short game and putting, not ball striking, so we've been addressing those two areas to shoot better.  If your child is already great at short game and putting, distance gains should see massive improvements.  But if their short game is great bc they miss greens due to ball striking, I think that needs to be addressed first.  Having speed with bad technique is pointless IMO.  Keep in mind as your child gets massive distance gains, the way you map out a hole completely changes.  It is no longer just hit it down the middle.

Edited November 1, 2023 by yellowlover519

[TroyB123]

I don't think anyone is doing their kid's any favors if they're comparing their 85 lb 13 yo who would fit in in a 4th grade class to a 5'8 13 yo with a mustache walking with his 5'8 dad.   Some of the latter kids can definitely dominate at that age, but often aren't heard from in a couple years.