The Reddit "mythical golfer who hits 300 yard drives"

[Philpug]

Reddit is the Walmart of content. I take it with a grain of sait. I run a ski site (SkiTalk.com) that is similar to Golfwrx and while I do some cross posting on Reddit, the overall quality of the posting is much lower than sites like here and ours. 

[MichaelHafe]

You guys are just as bad as the reddit people.  The average carry distance on the PGA Tour (golfers significantly more physically gifted than 99% of us) sit at 275. 

[SurfDuffer]

On 3/21/2024 at 11:18 AM, RoyalMustang said:

 

It begs the question: are all good golfers usually paired up with others? I rarely play in an organized group, mostly due to the course I'm at being mainly 55+ and the morning crowd. What about public course golfers? Or do most better players belong to a private club? I get that if you live in a smaller area, but private clubs in bigger metros can cost an arm and a leg. Just because you are a good golfer doesn't mean you have an extra $100k laying around for an initiation fee. 

 

I know at my home course, (private) the young bucks who are long and low handicap players mostly play among themselves.  The low handicappers in general mostly play together or in the higher dollar betting groups 😄. 

 

You will generally see a lot more better players at private courses.  Unlimited access to practice facilities and range balls is a huge advantage.  My game never could have gotten to where it got if I hadn't become a member at a private course where I could endlessly practice and I doubt my son would have reached pro status without growing up with the access the private course and practice facilities afforded him.  I doubt I ever would ever gotten below a 10 handicap by playing local public courses and buying range balls by the bucket.   

 

I'm not saying there aren't good players at public courses but its certainly easier to get there with the facilities of a private course at your fingertips.  

[jda]

The average speed of a race car driver is 52 MPH - say nothing about how fast they can go.  Simpletons to boil it down to just this or that on tour courses where the rough is punishing, the guys can hit 9 irons 190 yards and otherwise is a different game than the normal public course.

[phizzy30]

delete

Edited April 18 by phizzy30

[phizzy30]

9 hours ago, MichaelHafe said:

You guys are just as bad as the reddit people.  The average carry distance on the PGA Tour (golfers significantly more physically gifted than 99% of us) sit at 275. 

99% is far exaggerated.  Pro golfers are among the least physically gifted with the exception of very few IMO.  However, they all have very efficient and repeatable swings that amateurs lack for the most part.  I train a tour pro and have have several clients that are at the high school and collegiate level.  I also train pro/collegiate athletes in other sports that include hockey, semi-pro football, baseball and track. 

Edited April 18 by phizzy30

[Chunkitgood]

1 hour ago, phizzy30 said:

99% is far exaggerated.  Pro golfers are among the least physically gifted with the exception of very few IMO.  However, they all have very efficient and repeatable swings that amateurs lack for the most part.  I train a tour pro and have have several clients that are at the high school and collegiate level.  I also train pro/collegiate athletes in other sports that include hockey, semi-pro football, baseball and track. 

I’m afraid this post suggests a bias in your idea of what it is to be physically gifted, or rather embodies a false dualism between the body and the mind.

 

The numbers I’ve seen suggest 300 yards is above three standard deviations, so while the number of people who do it may be numbered in the tens of thousands, it’s less than 1/2 of one per cent of golfers, maybe 3 out of a thousand, and an order of magnitude less than the number of say people with IQ’s over 145 (for tests with a SD of 15).

 

The real question at issue seems to be, if someone claims to do it, should they be believed?  Or in this context, are the people who don’t believe such claims by strangers on Reddit jerks?  Certainly some people drive the ball 300 yards, and of course that includes the posters on this forum who say they do, but outside of that?

[SurfDuffer]

6 hours ago, Chunkitgood said:

The numbers I’ve seen suggest 300 yards is above three standard deviations, so while the number of people who do it may be numbered in the tens of thousands, it’s less than 1/2 of one per cent of golfers, maybe 3 out of a thousand, and an order of magnitude less than the number of say people with IQ’s over 145 (for tests with a SD of 15).

At the club where I play I'd say there are four or five guys I'm aware of who regularly hit it beyond 300.  One of them is the assistant pro, one has won the club championship 4 or 5 times and the others are low single digit handicappers.  I would have been in that group until the past couple of seasons.

On the flip side there are plenty of members who can't hit a driver further than I hit my 7-iron and probably a huge percentage who can't hit their driver further than I'll hit a 3-iron.  There being a large number of short hitters drives the averages way down.

Edited April 18 by SurfDuffer

[phizzy30]

6 hours ago, Chunkitgood said:

I’m afraid this post suggests a bias in your idea of what it is to be physically gifted, or rather embodies a false dualism between the body and the mind.

 

The numbers I’ve seen suggest 300 yards is above three standard deviations, so while the number of people who do it may be numbered in the tens of thousands, it’s less than 1/2 of one per cent of golfers, maybe 3 out of a thousand, and an order of magnitude less than the number of say people with IQ’s over 145 (for tests with a SD of 15).

 

The real question at issue seems to be, if someone claims to do it, should they be believed?  Or in this context, are the people who don’t believe such claims by strangers on Reddit jerks?  Certainly some people drive the ball 300 yards, and of course that includes the posters on this forum who say they do, but outside of that?

It's my job is to train physically gifted people so I have a better view/idea of what that term means compared to most people who work in other fields.  Most tour pros don't even look like they work out just by looking at their physiques.  That's not a knock on them though, that's just genetics.  So why is it that you think I'm bias?  What's your idea of physically gifted?     

Edited April 18 by phizzy30

[klebs01]

10 hours ago, Chunkitgood said:

I’m afraid this post suggests a bias in your idea of what it is to be physically gifted, or rather embodies a false dualism between the body and the mind.

 

The numbers I’ve seen suggest 300 yards is above three standard deviations, so while the number of people who do it may be numbered in the tens of thousands, it’s less than 1/2 of one per cent of golfers, maybe 3 out of a thousand, and an order of magnitude less than the number of say people with IQ’s over 145 (for tests with a SD of 15).

 

The real question at issue seems to be, if someone claims to do it, should they be believed?  Or in this context, are the people who don’t believe such claims by strangers on Reddit jerks?  Certainly some people drive the ball 300 yards, and of course that includes the posters on this forum who say they do, but outside of that?

the data I’ve seen from trackman suggests the number is in the 7-10% range. Not a pure average due to repeatability issues but capable frequently based on speed and launch conditions. 
 

the least impressive thing about pro golfers is the length. I see people at or above tour average most times I play. Yes, a few on tour are exceptions but the majority are not impressive. The most impressive thing is the consistency on mid and long irons and the touch around the greens. 

Edited April 18 by klebs01

[jda]

Half the boys on the high school team can hit it 300 in a round.  Some are not gifted or even particularly good, but they can swing over 110 and "get" one every once in a while.  Most are good athletes and even baseball players who can turn and have strong wrists/hands.  Some will go on to play college golf where they will be over 300 regularly.  The others will stay at this distance until they are 30 if they just play every once in a while.  Many others who are close can get over 300 if we put them in a D4 or LST driver with a left dash or other low-spin ball.

 

This whole thread might be an exercise in getting out and seeing more things.  Got randomly paired with two dudes and one was an ex pro who drove 371, 365 and 377 yard greens last Sunday (not near the green, but on the surface) - shot 65 in his sleep from the tips.  He was physically gifted  The other one could hit it over 300 but was all over the place.

 

105 MPH with proper launch and low spin will get this done.  You don't have to be too physically gifted for this, but it doesn't hurt.  If you are close, then there is likely a ball to get you that extra 10 yards if 300 is all that you care about.

[betarhoalphadelta]

10 hours ago, Chunkitgood said:

I’m afraid this post suggests a bias in your idea of what it is to be physically gifted, or rather embodies a false dualism between the body and the mind.

 

The numbers I’ve seen suggest 300 yards is above three standard deviations, so while the number of people who do it may be numbered in the tens of thousands, it’s less than 1/2 of one per cent of golfers, maybe 3 out of a thousand, and an order of magnitude less than the number of say people with IQ’s over 145 (for tests with a SD of 15).

 

The real question at issue seems to be, if someone claims to do it, should they be believed?  Or in this context, are the people who don’t believe such claims by strangers on Reddit jerks?  Certainly some people drive the ball 300 yards, and of course that includes the posters on this forum who say they do, but outside of that?

 

I'm not sure that looking at the numbers of golfers who do something in a standard deviation model based on results is necessarily fair or similar to IQ, which is based more on inherent ability. The golf swing is a learned skill, and is fairly complicated, and I'd say that the VAST majority of golfers in the world are nowhere near their physical capability to produce speed. 

 

What we see in most weekender golfers is multiple technique problems in their swings that are power leaks--often massive power leaks. Golf being a sport that literally anyone can play, and can continue to regularly play without actually seeking outside instruction or practicing often enough to make technique improvements, means that we're not seeing players' bests in the results. 

 

For example, I'm 45, 6'5", 250#, and muscular. I have a driver SS of about 100 mph, and hit the ball (on a good strike) about 250. I absolutely KNOW I've got tons more in the tank that can be unlocked with better technique. One of my biggest issues has traditionally been the sway to the trail side in the backswing and then a slide to the lead side in the downswing--basically reducing my ability to have a proper pivot and use the ground. It's what I'm working on and it's something that I expect will add mph to my swing. In fact, I occasionally do it--I'll have that random outlier on the course where my sequencing is better and it's a 260-280 yard drive. I think based on my size and physical ability, doing that and then maybe actually working a little on dedicated speed training could get me into that "300" club. But the reason I'm not there now isn't that my body is incapable of hitting it 300, it's that my swing mechanics are holding me back. 

 

I think there are a lot more golfers in this world who are physically capable of driving the ball 300 yards than actually do it.

[Pastit]

35 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

I'm not sure that looking at the numbers of golfers who do something in a standard deviation model based on results is necessarily fair or similar to IQ, which is based more on inherent ability. The golf swing is a learned skill, and is fairly complicated, and I'd say that the VAST majority of golfers in the world are nowhere near their physical capability to produce speed. 

 

What we see in most weekender golfers is multiple technique problems in their swings that are power leaks--often massive power leaks. Golf being a sport that literally anyone can play, and can continue to regularly play without actually seeking outside instruction or practicing often enough to make technique improvements, means that we're not seeing players' bests in the results. 

 

For example, I'm 45, 6'5", 250#, and muscular. I have a driver SS of about 100 mph, and hit the ball (on a good strike) about 250. I absolutely KNOW I've got tons more in the tank that can be unlocked with better technique. One of my biggest issues has traditionally been the sway to the trail side in the backswing and then a slide to the lead side in the downswing--basically reducing my ability to have a proper pivot and use the ground. It's what I'm working on and it's something that I expect will add mph to my swing. In fact, I occasionally do it--I'll have that random outlier on the course where my sequencing is better and it's a 260-280 yard drive. I think based on my size and physical ability, doing that and then maybe actually working a little on dedicated speed training could get me into that "300" club. But the reason I'm not there now isn't that my body is incapable of hitting it 300, it's that my swing mechanics are holding me back. 

 

I think there are a lot more golfers in this world who are physically capable of driving the ball 300 yards than actually do it.

Taught countless juniors, I can’t agree with the proposition in your first para. Using your word “ inherent “ I saw those juniors with excellent flexibility as beginners showing potential immediately.  Just a few basics being needed to see them develop well as their physique did the same. 
 

Others, without this inherent ability, rarely grew on past a mid-ability. 

Edited April 18 by Pastit

[jda]

Moreso than people's ability to use their skills to produce speed, so are people's ability to use data and statistics right... which is probably way less than 3 standard deviations from the mean.  Ex data scientist here who was a staff SE at Google.  Data is worthless alone, but you have to have it - truly it is worthless alone it is just numbers.  Some smart folks can turn data into information which can have some value, but not too much - this is where analytics should be but too many skip the "smart folks" part of the equation and have no idea how to .  You get a gaggle of smart folks together with some experience to both challenge and interact with each other and then you get knowledge - this is what you really are looking for, which is two FAR steps up from data.

 

Most good data people never talk about data or statistics beyond setting a baseline for a discussion about information or knowledge.  If they do, they label it as raw.  They try and demonstrate how they turned the data into information and then also into knowledge.  For this example, it is how Rory can go on a YouTube channel and average 365+ yards when hanging with some bros, but averaged 326 on tour when accuracy matters and there are real penalties - this is information, but you could probably get some knowledge if you dug in more and collaborated with more people about it.

 

The most intelligent know when something stops at information and does not get to knowledge. 

 

Information will tell you that with practice, if you swing 105mph, you can do this.  If you want to just show up, then 115 might be the cheat code.  Knowledge will tell you that your 105 SS could also get up to 107 to 109 if you did practice this much - no more athletic ability needed and you can do this just by using the ground for power or having a strong top hand, as examples.

[JA_357]

Can do it, but last time I was fitted for clubs I opted for control over distance. Measured at the 119 mph swing speed range for driver. Swing ~110-115 mph with reasonable control. Can go a little faster but without practice therein the control goes away fast and the courses I play do not forgive errant shots, hence less incentive to push it to the limit (plus body doesn't like it). Carry for comfortable swings is usually in that 270-290 yard range for most drives, occasionally carry 300 yards when I really synchronize well, mishits I tend to be back to ~260. Can push my 3-W to 270, but that is going after it hard. 6 Iron goes 200. 6' 5", 215# and late 30s, not overly flexible or big, so levers is probably alot of it for me. 

Edited April 18 by JA_357

[ac6]

Finally hopping in on this thread. Responding to the original topic--on Reddit this is just a trope born of the fact that every random bonehead claims they hit driver 250 or 300. You hear this claim so often from guys who clearly don't hit it that far that it is has somehow become gospel that nobody can do it. 

 

Most healthy adult men could get close with good technique and a lot of practice. I'm would say I am not particularly physically gifted with anything other than some hand-eye coordination (5-11, 170#, 6-3 wingspan, not in particularly good shape anymore) but played a lot as a kid and figured out how to sequence my swing to generate decent speed.

 

These days I'm sitting in the 113mph range, maxing out at about 118 with driver and have always been aggressive off the tee, so a typical tee shot for me carries 275-280 and rolls out somewhere close to 300. Would I say I average 300 in all conditions? Probably not. But I know there are lots of players out there with more speed than me who could easily claim that. 

[aenemated]

Told this one a few times and telling it again cuz it's my favorite thing ever overheard over many, many years on the range.

 

When I lived in LA; I used to go over to Westchester GC (by LAX) to practice and play the lil executive course. I was out at the range one night and there was a dude and his buddy directly behind me. One I don't think even played - never saw him touch a club - and the other was a big dude that was just lashing at driver after driver as hard as he could. Mostly tops, snap hooks, etc. Finally, the golf gods smiled upon him and he connected with solid contact. Ball dropped a little short of the net at the back of the range.

 

He says rather loudly, "Yeah bro, that was like 330 yards bro."

 

The thing is ... it's only ~250yds to the net 😂

 

 

[fowlerscousin]

Definitely some dudes can have some well struck ones that carry 300, you don't see these types of players until you get down to 3 handicap and lower. As far as dudes that average 300 or more? Extremely rare or non existent for anyone with handicap worse than +2

[RoyalMustang]

On 4/7/2024 at 1:29 PM, Philpug said:

Reddit is the Walmart of content. I take it with a grain of sait. I run a ski site (SkiTalk.com) that is similar to Golfwrx and while I do some cross posting on Reddit, the overall quality of the posting is much lower than sites like here and ours. 

 

How'd you find this place? 

[RoyalMustang]

On 4/18/2024 at 10:07 AM, klebs01 said:

the data I’ve seen from trackman suggests the number is in the 7-10% range. Not a pure average due to repeatability issues but capable frequently based on speed and launch conditions. 
 

the least impressive thing about pro golfers is the length. I see people at or above tour average most times I play. Yes, a few on tour are exceptions but the majority are not impressive. The most impressive thing is the consistency on mid and long irons and the touch around the greens. 

 

I was gonna say the same. Watching the Masters was eye-opening. Yesterday, I hit a drive 325 from an elevated tee with a bit of a tailwind and wet fairway. Probably 305 in normal conditions. I had 78 yards to the green, got it to within about 20 feet but awkardly above the hole. For a pro, they are within 4 feet, below the hole, and a near automatic birdie. I hit my 20 footer a bit too hard given the greens being still dormant from winter and running at 12+, lip out, leave myself a 5 footer, and end up with a bogey. After a 325 yard drive in the middle of the fairway. 

 

Out of all the things I do in my game, hitting the ball 300+ and keeping it in the fairway is probably the easiest. Having iron touch and accuracy, both long and short, isn't. Our #4 is nominally 212 with a prevailing wind. I'm 40% GIR accuracy on that hole. This compares to my 70% FIR. It's far tougher to hit a good 5-iron into a green on a par 3 than it is to hit 300 yards. 

[RoyalMustang]

On 4/20/2024 at 12:40 PM, aenemated said:

Told this one a few times and telling it again cuz it's my favorite thing ever overheard over many, many years on the range.

 

When I lived in LA; I used to go over to Westchester GC (by LAX) to practice and play the lil executive course. I was out at the range one night and there was a dude and his buddy directly behind me. One I don't think even played - never saw him touch a club - and the other was a big dude that was just lashing at driver after driver as hard as he could. Mostly tops, snap hooks, etc. Finally, the golf gods smiled upon him and he connected with solid contact. Ball dropped a little short of the net at the back of the range.

 

He says rather loudly, "Yeah bro, that was like 330 yards bro."

 

The thing is ... it's only ~250yds to the net 😂

 

 

 

That net must be 20 stories tall if I'm parking in that lot. Yikes! 

[RoyalMustang]

On 4/18/2024 at 10:20 AM, jda said:

This whole thread might be an exercise in getting out and seeing more things.  Got randomly paired with two dudes and one was an ex pro who drove 371, 365 and 377 yard greens last Sunday (not near the green, but on the surface) - shot 65 in his sleep from the tips.  He was physically gifted  The other one could hit it over 300 but was all over the place.

 

 

If that's the ex-pro....damn! It just shows you that a regular course is not a course in championship conditions; otherwise top guys would be shooting -45 for the tournament. 

[aenemated]

7 minutes ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

That net must be 20 stories tall if I'm parking in that lot. Yikes! 

 

Hahaha nah, you hit from just "below" the parking lot in that. So hitting away from it. 

 

That said, if you look in the very upper left and notice the bunker, that's one of the short game practice areas. Definitely DO NOT park near that 😂

[Philpug]

4 hours ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

How'd you find this place? 

looking for additonal golf information on launch monitors and clubs. Do we knwo each other? 

Edited April 23 by Philpug

[MichaelHafe]

On 4/17/2024 at 11:13 PM, phizzy30 said:

99% is far exaggerated.  Pro golfers are among the least physically gifted with the exception of very few IMO.  However, they all have very efficient and repeatable swings that amateurs lack for the most part.  I train a tour pro and have have several clients that are at the high school and collegiate level.  I also train pro/collegiate athletes in other sports that include hockey, semi-pro football, baseball and track. 

But you yourself are not a professional athlete, which is my point.

[RoyalMustang]

On 4/24/2024 at 9:20 AM, MichaelHafe said:

But you yourself are not a professional athlete, which is my point.

 

yeah-I'd argue that you need to be a pretty darn good athlete to be a golfer. Hand-eye coordination, balance, motor control, explosiveness. You don't need a powerful physique: in fact, too much bulk may be a detriment to the ability to rotate. But you do need a powerful core. 

It may be that traditionally, great athletes did other sports, as the barrier to entry to golf can be very high. Outside of cost, if you don't have access to a course or friends/family that play, you aren't likely to grow up golfing. No different than most people don't grow around ski jumping facilities in the US, which is why we don't produce good ski jumpers, unlike some European countries. But look at enthusiast golfers who are great athletes, such as Mookie Betts and Steph Curry. They have legit swings. Mike Trout too. 

 

Golf takes a lot of repetition and, like many "feel" sports, it helps to grow up golfing, not unlike ice hockey. If you grew up on skates since you could walk, there's a good chance you'll always feel at home on ice. 

 

I'd argue that relevant athleticsim is the determining factor in how good a golfer can be. I know plenty of people who play 36 holes a week and practice to no end. Sure, their short game and putting are good, but those parts of golf can be trained up. I've heard it said that putting is the one part of golf where a weekend warrior, given the time and effort, can match the best in the world. Those same people spending 15 hours at the course still hit an ability wall: everyone does, but there are plenty of people who "want" to be good, only to max out at a 7 cap with incredible putting and short game. They just don't have the athleticism or the body makeup to make a repeatable, powerful swing. Some of that is fixable with the proper training, strengthening, and stretching, and some is just lack of born ability. 

[bcflyguy1]

A player's short game is the primary determinant of their floor.

A player's speed/athleticism is the primary determinant of their ceiling.

[SurfDuffer]

On 4/20/2024 at 1:40 PM, aenemated said:

Told this one a few times and telling it again cuz it's my favorite thing ever overheard over many, many years on the range.

 

When I lived in LA; I used to go over to Westchester GC (by LAX) to practice and play the lil executive course. I was out at the range one night and there was a dude and his buddy directly behind me. One I don't think even played - never saw him touch a club - and the other was a big dude that was just lashing at driver after driver as hard as he could. Mostly tops, snap hooks, etc. Finally, the golf gods smiled upon him and he connected with solid contact. Ball dropped a little short of the net at the back of the range.

 

He says rather loudly, "Yeah bro, that was like 330 yards bro."

 

The thing is ... it's only ~250yds to the net 😂

 

 

 

I got addicted to golf at a range laid out like that.  I could hit the sheit out of the ball but had no idea where it was going.  Most of the time it went over the right side fence. 😄  First couple of years it was that range and local low end public courses before I joined a private course with unlimited practice facilities.   

[byoshio82]

42 and recently got fitted. 112 MPH and carry it 280 and it chases out to 300. Summertime when the swing is dialed and loose it’s reasonable for me to carry one 300+ so many factors go into carrying one 300. However I play better golf if I throttle it back a bit. 112 MPH is a good cruising speed for me to balance accuracy and distance. Summertime it’ll creep up to 115 MPH and I top out about 120 MPH but I have no idea where it’s going at that speed. 
 

I think a lot of people have no idea how far they actually hit the ball. However if you have the right equipment, speed and strike location 300 carry is a lot more feasible than it was when I was in HS or College in the late 90’s/early 2000’s. 
 

Now if you’re at elevation all bets are off! Playing in Utah many times the ball just goes for miles! 

[RoyalMustang]

On 4/25/2024 at 8:50 PM, SurfDuffer said:

 

I got addicted to golf at a range laid out like that.  I could hit the sheit out of the ball but had no idea where it was going.  Most of the time it went over the right side fence. 😄  First couple of years it was that range and local low end public courses before I joined a private course with unlimited practice facilities.   

 

Isn't it ....