All Things Ohio Golf

[golfortennis]

[quote name='lov2golf4' timestamp='1389647607' post='8453827']
I'm thinking of buying some nice rain gear this year and I wanted to know if there is anywhere I can actually try the gear on instead of just buying over the internet. I hate buying clothes without trying them on. I can't find anywhere with a big selection at all. Golf Galaxy has one nice Nike outfit and they only have one Foot Joy Jacket. I'm probably looking to get Gore-Tex which I hear is the best because it's also breathable and waterproof.
[/quote]

I can tell you that the Nike rainsuit I picked up from Dick's Sporting Goods was one of the best investments I have made. I don't have it in front of me so I can't confirm materials, but it certainly maintains the water-proofness of anything else out there. And there has to be more than one store in Columbus?

[ClarkGrswld4]

moved to Cleveland in 2013 and have yet to dabble in any winter golf-related activities. Is the dome worth the time?

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='ClarkGrswld4' timestamp='1389821980' post='8467295']
moved to Cleveland in 2013 and have yet to dabble in any winter golf-related activities. Is the dome worth the time?
[/quote]

The one in chagrin?
If so, I think it's not really worth it and prefer a heated range, but that might just be me.

[ClarkGrswld4]

That is the only dome in the Cleveland area, right? What are some good heated ranges you would reco?

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='ClarkGrswld4' timestamp='1389882068' post='8470725']
That is the only dome in the Cleveland area, right? What are some good heated ranges you would reco?
[/quote]

Yeah only dome as far as I know. Used to be another one in the valley but it isn't there anymore or at least isn't functioning.
West pines range looks to have some good reviews and is near you. Best practice place in cleveland area is probably windmill golf center in Macedonia, but that's way east of you.
I'm more near Akron so don't really the west side stuff at all.

[ClarkGrswld4]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1390084968' post='8485425']
[quote name='ClarkGrswld4' timestamp='1389882068' post='8470725']
That is the only dome in the Cleveland area, right? What are some good heated ranges you would reco?
[/quote]

Yeah only dome as far as I know. Used to be another one in the valley but it isn't there anymore or at least isn't functioning.
West pines range looks to have some good reviews and is near you. Best practice place in cleveland area is probably windmill golf center in Macedonia, but that's way east of you.
I'm more near Akron so don't really the west side stuff at all.
[/quote]

Thanks for the info. Yeah, west pines is right by me and that's where I practice in the summer. Despite what it says online, they aren't open in the winter. I did check out the dome on Saturday and kinda liked it. I don't think I'd go there to practice all winter but once a month would be fun.

[smeech8000]

[quote name='Tarantula18t' timestamp='1384956677' post='8177244']
For some of you Columbus guys.......can you tell me anything about Pinnacle and New Albany CC? Are they both worth the 100+- drive (for me from the Cincy/Dayton area)?

I know New Albany has 27 holes......which is the best rotation to play?

This would be for the 2014 season, but if I plan on playing them, I need to make a decision in the next few days on playing one, both, or neither.[/quote]

If you're going to be in New Albany, give Winding Hollow a try. I played there in October last year and was pleased. It used to be private but is open to the public now. Conditioning is not up to the same level as a private course, but is still great and the layout is solid.


[quote name='ClarkGrswld4' timestamp='1384983556' post='8179946']
web.com tour coming to Lakewood CC in Westlake for the next 3 years...great course[/quote]
+1

They hosted a USGA Mid Am qualifier there last year. Although the new clubhouse is under construction, the golf course had been impeccably maintained and I can count on one hand the times I've played on faster greens. Easily one of the best on the west side.

[pinhigh27]

Anyone play aurora golf club before it closed ? Always hated it when it was open, but now that I look back on it, it was a really amazing course. Just an awesome lay out, in my opinion .

[teejaywhy]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1390374392' post='8507215']
Anyone play aurora golf club before it closed ? Always hated it when it was open, but now that I look back on it, it was a really amazing course. Just an awesome lay out, in my opinion .
[/quote]

Interesting... What was it that you hated about it? What changed your mind?

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='teejaywhy' timestamp='1390435444' post='8512255']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1390374392' post='8507215']
Anyone play aurora golf club before it closed ? Always hated it when it was open, but now that I look back on it, it was a really amazing course. Just an awesome lay out, in my opinion .
[/quote]

Interesting... What was it that you hated about it? What changed your mind?
[/quote]

I always thought the first hole and 9th hole were really dumb. I really wish I could get the chance to play it again now though !! My favorite hole was number 5 I think , I remember it had a forced lay up off tee with like a hybrid and then a long iron to a really cool green. Just an awesome hole

[ClarkGrswld4]

where ya at Ohio golfers? It's pathetic that Michigan has 352 pages and we have 20. Atleast we are still superior in football...

[SilverBullets]

[quote name='ClarkGrswld4' timestamp='1390837746' post='8542791']
where ya at Ohio golfers? It's pathetic that Michigan has 352 pages and we have 20. Atleast we are still superior in football...
[/quote]

I'd watch what you say, I think a good portion of those guys are MSU fans... Hopefully the start of 2014 for the Buckeyes isn't a changing of the guard... Loss to clemson and then basketball pooping their pants for the last 3 weeks has been hard to watch (imagine watching that for like 8 years as the UoM fans have been doing)... Cap it off with the Bengals getting ousted and 2014 is off to bad start for my teams

[Tarantula18t]

The Bungs! They are just plain sad come playoff time...on the rare occasion that they make it.

You want pain, watch Iowa basketball for the past 6 years or so....up until the past few it was brutal. Now I can smile again, like the old Tom Davis era.

I am no Buckeye fan, but I seriously doubt there will be any changing of the guard. No one seems to be able to compete with the Buckeyes on the recruiting trail.

Michigan State, much like Iowa, has a really good year once in a while, but neither will be consistently beating Ohio State anytime soon. As much as that pains me to say.

[SilverBullets]

[quote name='Tarantula18t' timestamp='1390852061' post='8544567']
The Bungs! They are just plain sad come playoff time...on the rare occasion that they make it.

You want pain, watch Iowa basketball for the past 6 years or so....up until the past few it was brutal. Now I can smile again, like the old Tom Davis era.

I am no Buckeye fan, but I seriously doubt there will be any changing of the guard. No one seems to be able to compete with the Buckeyes on the recruiting trail.

Michigan State, much like Iowa, has a really good year once in a while, but neither will be consistently beating Ohio State anytime soon. As much as that pains me to say.
[/quote]

Unfortunately I had the pleasure of watching the OSU/Iowa basketball game from the seats at the Schott a couple weeks ago. I haven't been in an Ohio State arena which was utterly silent for the final 5 minutes of the game in a very long time. I was looking at my dad like 'WTF just happened?'

On a side note, when is Iowa going to no longer accept mediocrity and can Ferentz? The BIG needs Iowa to be good and they just aren't getting the job done.

[pinhigh27]

Huge OSU fan, specifically bball. Our offense is a joke. Don't know of any team that has an offense like ours. Let's sit around the 3 line and pass the ball 20 times until someone is open. Defense is a joke too. I'm not even sure if Ross and Amir try half the time. I thought this OSU team was going to be the best out of the last 3 years, and still feel they should be if they actually played like the players they are. Craft doesn't take it to the hoop ever, even though every single offseason I hear about how he is going to score more. I think they've only lost 1-2 games in his career when he scores 15+.

If I was Thad, I'd say if the ball isn't shot before 25 on the shot clock, you're sitting. But that would never happen as it's completely against his style. Don't really know why their defense gets so much hype. Craft can play D and so can Scott when he doesn't commit 100 dumb fouls(which is almost every game if you look at his stats now), yet it's really easy to hold opponents low if you hold the ball the whole time. It's like running the ball every single down in the NFL. Obviously the other teams aren't going to have the ball in their hands for as long and be able to score more.

Thad is a great recruiter, but a really really bad coach in my opinion. Any team with half of our talent that runs a zone and has 2 guys that can handle the ball will hold us in the 60s scoring wise. Hard to win games against top teams with that little scoring. Don't really know their heads are. I've never seen a player look as bad over a stretch as Shannon Scott. Not sure if he's hurt or what... Really bad times right now.

This 4 game stretch coming up after penn state, we'd be lucky to win 2 right now.

Rant over. Buckeyes bball is my sports thing and they are sucking it up hard.

[ClarkGrswld4]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1390915088' post='8549583']
Huge OSU fan, specifically bball. Our offense is a joke. [b]Don't know of any team that has an offense like ours[/b]. Let's sit around the 3 line and pass the ball 20 times until someone is open. Defense is a joke too. I'm not even sure if Ross and Amir try half the time. I thought this OSU team was going to be the best out of the last 3 years, and still feel they should be if they actually played like the players they are. Craft doesn't take it to the hoop ever, even though every single offseason I hear about how he is going to score more. I think they've only lost 1-2 games in his career when he scores 15+.

If I was Thad, I'd say if the ball isn't shot before 25 on the shot clock, you're sitting. But that would never happen as it's completely against his style. Don't really know why their defense gets so much hype. Craft can play D and so can Scott when he doesn't commit 100 dumb fouls(which is almost every game if you look at his stats now), yet it's really easy to hold opponents low if you hold the ball the whole time. It's like running the ball every single down in the NFL. Obviously the other teams aren't going to have the ball in their hands for as long and be able to score more.

Thad is a great recruiter, but a really really bad coach in my opinion. Any team with half of our talent that runs a zone and has 2 guys that can handle the ball will hold us in the 60s scoring wise. Hard to win games against top teams with that little scoring. Don't really know their heads are. I've never seen a player look as bad over a stretch as Shannon Scott. Not sure if he's hurt or what... Really bad times right now.

This 4 game stretch coming up after penn state, we'd be lucky to win 2 right now.

Rant over. Buckeyes bball is my sports thing and they are sucking it up hard.
[/quote]

You just played them, they are called Illinois. Nevertheless, I understand your point and that particular game was just 2 teams standing around doing nothing most of the time. Sadly, I'm an Illinois basketball fan.

[SilverBullets]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1390915088' post='8549583']
Huge OSU fan, specifically bball. Our offense is a joke. Don't know of any team that has an offense like ours. Let's sit around the 3 line and pass the ball 20 times until someone is open. Defense is a joke too. I'm not even sure if Ross and Amir try half the time. I thought this OSU team was going to be the best out of the last 3 years, and still feel they should be if they actually played like the players they are. Craft doesn't take it to the hoop ever, even though every single offseason I hear about how he is going to score more. I think they've only lost 1-2 games in his career when he scores 15+.

If I was Thad, I'd say if the ball isn't shot before 25 on the shot clock, you're sitting. But that would never happen as it's completely against his style. Don't really know why their defense gets so much hype. Craft can play D and so can Scott when he doesn't commit 100 dumb fouls(which is almost every game if you look at his stats now), yet it's really easy to hold opponents low if you hold the ball the whole time. It's like running the ball every single down in the NFL. Obviously the other teams aren't going to have the ball in their hands for as long and be able to score more.

Thad is a great recruiter, but a really really bad coach in my opinion. Any team with half of our talent that runs a zone and has 2 guys that can handle the ball will hold us in the 60s scoring wise. Hard to win games against top teams with that little scoring. Don't really know their heads are. I've never seen a player look as bad over a stretch as Shannon Scott. Not sure if he's hurt or what... Really bad times right now.

This 4 game stretch coming up after penn state, we'd be lucky to win 2 right now.

Rant over. Buckeyes bball is my sports thing and they are sucking it up hard.
[/quote]

The offense is so bad. I was at the Illinois game and it was difficult to sit there and watch. Craft has one of the worst offensive games I have ever seen... especially from a 4 year starter. He has absolutely no shooting range. One of the worst jump shots I have seen. To an extent he has the Tim Tebow syndrome. He's a great motivator, a very good college player, excels at one thing (Craft is unreal defensive) and has a very high motor... but he has extremely flawed mechanics which ultimately limit his potential. It's funny, he will go down as one of the greatest Buckeye basketball players to ever done the jersey. However, he was maybe the 7th most naturally gifted person on any one of teams he played on. He just out worked and out hustled everyone. Relying on him to bring offense is a scary thought.

Ross looks to me like a head case. He is almost a poor man's DeShuan Thomas, and that's really not a compliant. He plays poor defense and doesn't play well with someone who challenges him physically. I think he lost a ton of money by returning for this season.

I really don't have anything to say about Scott and Amir. We know what we have there. LSJ just pisses me off because he looks head and shoulders better than everyone on the floor in games against weak opponents. The minute the Bucks play a ranked team or a big time game he just disappears. Last season he shot something like 27% in games against ranked opponents (they played like 12 or so games against ranked teams too) and then shot like 60% against non ranked teams. I haven't run the numbers this year but from what I've seen it's the same.

I don't think Thad is a bad coach by any means. 75% of college basketball, especially in the elite, top tier programs, is recruiting. You really can't argue Thad's resume whatsoever. The guy has never had less than 20 wins in his entire career (that includes while at Xavier and Butler). He has made it to 2 final fours with the Bucks. You can say it was simply because of the recruiting, but, you would have to apply that to every team in the country. Coach Cal, Coach K, Roy Williams, etc. All of them get the cream of the crop. People are really freaking out over Thad but its completely unmerited. Let's not forget they are 16-4 and are playing in the the toughest conf. in basketball. He took a very flawed team last year and led them to the Elite 8 and was minutes away from another final 4. That was a team with one true offensive weapon.

You also have to factor in how a couple things impacted this team. Kam Williams was a highly touted guy, who can truely shoot the ball and was going to cut into Craft and Scott's minutes but he got Mono and had to take a red shirt. Thad also lost Jordan Seibert and JD Weatherspoon a couple years ago to transfer. That, coupled with Deshuan and Sullinger leaving early, have put the Bucks in somewhat of a tight spot recruiting and they now only have 9 scholarship players as opposed to 12. You may ask why didn't they just fill the final 3 spots? Well that would have left them stuck with lesser recruits who likely would take all 4 years preventing OSU from going after NBA talent guys in future years. Leaving it 9 allowed the Bucks to go out and sign 3 top 100 recruits while being in the final list of 5 schools (and apparently the preferred school) for the #2 overall recruit. Given the class coming in, next year could be a very big year for the Bucks BBall team. This year is clearly a rebuilding year.

[mac94]

The biggest disappointment with this team is the junior class. They had 2 McD All-Americans (Amir and Scott) plus a freak athlete (Thompson) and a pure scorer (Ross). None of them have lived up to expectations and Amir and Scott, well, I'm just shaking my head at their ineptitude. Scott is terrible. He is consistently a total non-factor in games. I think every stat line of his is something like 4 points, 2 assists, 2 rebounds, 3 TOs, 29 minutes.

Craft can't shoot, but neither can Scott. He might be worse than Craft. And Smith's motion is so jerky to the top, I can't stand watching it. Terribly inconsistent. Thompson is a little better. Ross is the only threat but he disappears at times. Amir can't catch the ball so he is no threat in the post. Offense is gross to watch.

[Tarantula18t]

Xavier happens to be my "second" favorite team growing up in Cincinnati with past season tickets watching Gillen, Prosser and Matta. I would agree with SilverBullets that Matta is definitely not a bad coach. He is just the ugliest... Recruiting is a huge part of being a successful coach. Coaching isn't all about X's and O's in the college world.

As far as Ferentz goes at Iowa, I am mixed on that one. Iowa isn't exactly an easy place to coach at. For one, the fans can be a bit relentless, hence Tom Davis being run out. Which I thought was one of the worst things that has happened there in many years. The effects on the basketball program are just now being corrected. Ferentz had those three great years back in 2002-2004, and then another good one in 2009. You're right, a lot of mediocre years in between, and ever since......7-5, 6-6, 8-5, 7-6, and so on. His contract runs thru 2020, which was ridiculous at the time they gave it to him I thought.

Iowa will NEVER get the players that Ohio State gets for one main reason....geography! Growing up here, I know how good Ohio high school football is. Iowa high school football is about equivalent to our division 2 or 3, with some exceptions of course. The surrounding states aren't exactly football hot beds either.

I have always hoped Stoops would come back to Iowa, but I doubt that will ever happen. As much as he loves Iowa, and says so publically all the time, why would he leave what he has at Oklahoma.

Ferentz was "supposedly" on the hot seat this year, but had a decent enough season to keep the critics off his back for now.

I wouldn't lose any sleep if he was gone tomorrow. That's my feeling on it.

[pinhigh27]

I still like crafts offense. He's great in the paint just has to get there. People like rondo and Jason kidd were worse shooters than craft, and they did Ok. I just don't get why he doesn't drive. It's all he's got and he doesn't use it nearly enough. Amir would be a lottery pick if he worked his butt off. He looked amazing before big ten play started. Yes we played some bad teams, but even factoring that in he looked solid.

Just don't get what the goal on offense is. It's literally just passing the ball until someone gets lazy. If that doesn't happen, then we get a forced shot with 5 sec on the shot clock. Pretty lame and doesn't work out against good teams .
Scott can shoot the 3 ball and was doing so at a much better rate earlier in the year. Don't know if he's hurt or got into some "substances " but I'd put good money on either. Never seen a player tank so hard. He's a very good player when on his game. Has the potential to be craft on d with a jumpshot and quicker. Just don't know what has happened to him.

Really hope we can get it together for this upcoming trip. Iowa Michigan wisc and Purdue. Playing at wisc is almost a guaranteed lost (but that's because of their balls and rim which are a joke, but I won't get into that). Anyway it's reasonable that we could lose all 3 of the other games, or at least a couple... Scary times

[SilverBullets]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1390932657' post='8551503']
I still like crafts offense. He's great in the paint just has to get there. People like rondo and Jason kidd were worse shooters than craft, and they did Ok. I just don't get why he doesn't drive. It's all he's got and he doesn't use it nearly enough. Amir would be a lottery pick if he worked his butt off. He looked amazing before big ten play started. Yes we played some bad teams, but even factoring that in he looked solid.

Just don't get what the goal on offense is. It's literally just passing the ball until someone gets lazy. If that doesn't happen, then we get a forced shot with 5 sec on the shot clock. Pretty lame and doesn't work out against good teams .
Scott can shoot the 3 ball and was doing so at a much better rate earlier in the year. Don't know if he's hurt or got into some "substances " but I'd put good money on either. Never seen a player tank so hard. He's a very good player when on his game. Has the potential to be craft on d with a jumpshot and quicker. Just don't know what has happened to him.

Really hope we can get it together for this upcoming trip. Iowa Michigan wisc and Purdue. Playing at wisc is almost a guaranteed lost (but that's because of their balls and rim which are a joke, but I won't get into that). Anyway it's reasonable that we could lose all 3 of the other games, or at least a couple... Scary times
[/quote]

I'm with you on Scott. I thought coming into this season he would actually surpass Craft as a more complete player. He actually looked to be doing just that (at one point he was averaging like 10 pts, 5 ast and 2 stls a game) and then then suddenly he just lost it.... and he really lost it on both sides of the ball.

Craft is what he is. He is great defensively, he's a solid game manager, and has shown the ability to get to the bucket... However, with Craft, if it isn't a layup, its generally pretty ugly. You really can't compare Rondo and Kidd to Craft. Kidd is a sure fire hall of famer and Rondo may end up doing that. Rondo has pretty similiar numbers to Craft, though, Rondo only played 2 years in college. Who knows how much better he would have been year 3 and 4. Kidd averaged 17 a game his sophomore year with 36% from behind the arc. He also averaged 9 ast a game. Craft is averaging 9 and 5 as a senior.. a far cry from 17 and 9 as a soph.

I also agree with you on Amir. He has all the tools and showed some great improvement early, but, I don't think he has the work ethic or desire to reach his potential. I think his biggest limitation is himself. If he had the work ethic of a Greg Oden, Sullinger, Evan Turner, Mike Redd, etc. than he could be truly special. But he doesn't. I guess that is what happens when major recruits flop.

Sam Thompson has continued to improve his jump shot and defense. If he continues that trend he could have a great year next year and would IMO undoubtedly make the NBA. He has the body and athelticism.. if he can get that shot down he will be lethal. Mark Loving is another guy who I can't wait to watch next year. He has looked very good at times this year. He has shown ability to shoot it from anywhere. The thing I don't understand is why Matta continues to stick with Scott and Smith Jr. I feel it should be a equal time share between those two and Loving/Thompson. Or at the very least Thompson should be starting and Scott should be used to spell Craft/Thompson and Loving should spell Smith jr.

[somaplr]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1390932657' post='8551503'] I still like crafts offense. He's great in the paint just has to get there. People like rondo and Jason kidd were worse shooters than craft, and they did Ok. I just don't get why he doesn't drive. It's all he's got and he doesn't use it nearly enough. Amir would be a lottery pick if he worked his butt off. He looked amazing before big ten play started. Yes we played some bad teams, but even factoring that in he looked solid. Just don't get what the goal on offense is. It's literally just passing the ball until someone gets lazy. If that doesn't happen, then we get a forced shot with 5 sec on the shot clock. Pretty lame and doesn't work out against good teams . Scott can shoot the 3 ball and was doing so at a much better rate earlier in the year. Don't know if he's hurt or got into some "substances " but I'd put good money on either. Never seen a player tank so hard. He's a very good player when on his game. Has the potential to be craft on d with a jumpshot and quicker. Just don't know what has happened to him. Really hope we can get it together for this upcoming trip. Iowa Michigan wisc and Purdue. Playing at wisc is almost a guaranteed lost (but that's because of their balls and rim which are a joke, but I won't get into that). Anyway it's reasonable that we could lose all 3 of the other games, or at least a couple... Scary times [/quote]

I'd be really careful about comparing NBA a first ballot hall-of-famer and Aaron Craft lol

[pinhigh27]

Loving is a stud, my thing with Sam is that all the press he's got from dunking has turned him into trying to make everything into a highlight. I don't think he has much else besides alley oops and 3s. He has missed 5+ dunks this year because he tries to make them a show stopper instead of getting it in. I like him but it's really annoying when they are losing and he misses a dunk.

Look for Ame to be solid next year. Right now he's just a spot up guy that gets in to trouble when he is keyed on , but I think next year he will be able to do well in traffic. He can score better than people think.

I still think craft will play in the nba. Shooting is the easiest thing to fix in a players game. Though I still don't understand why it hasn't improved. Craft would be best player in nation if he could shoot. I'm fine with the motion if he can make it work. Kevin Martin and Marion have done way more recently with substantially worse shots.

[mac94]

Things I disagree with in orevious posts.

Rondo and Kidd would shoot circles around Craft. Is this even serious?

Scott isnot a good shooter. Have you watched his game? He is 28% behind the arc. That's worse than Craft. He has no offensive game.

Amir hasno chance of being a lottery pick, even with hard work. He just isn't that skilled.

[pinhigh27]

Every minute of every game for the last ten years.
Rondo might be the worst shooting starting point guard in nba history. 62 percent career FT percentage , along with the fact that he has literally 0 mid to long range game. Similar type of style to craft, except craft can shoot free throws. I don't think I'd say rondo is a better shooter at all, let alone shoot circles around. Jason kidds shooting stats when he entered the league are pretty bad. He definitely progressed as his career moved on. Towards the end he was fine if not slightly above average shooting wise.

They don't make shots because they dont get good looks. Honestly craft isn't even as bad of a shooter as people think. He realistically has 3-5 junk shot attempts a game because of the stagnant offense. If he doesn't take them, it's Scott. Generally those the the two that when the shot clock is dwindling and no one is open (like most possessions) take the shot. So people act like they're so god awful when in reality their numbers are influenced by the pathetic offensive scheme.

Amir is 6 11. Do you have any idea how easy it is to be drafted highly in the nba as a big man ? Tyler zeller was almost a lottery pick and that guy barely has a pulse. Amir could easily be there with some work ethic. He's a great defender when he has his head in the game. Guy is a mcdonalds all American, don't act like he's some random 4 star recruit. He was very highly touted and has a lot of skill. It's the head that's the problem. Same with Scott. These guys know how to play basketball at a VERY high level, it's just the things getting in the way preventing them from doing so.

[golfortennis]

Yes but don't forget that even though Kidd wasn't the greatest shooter, he could pass the ball better than all but maybe 5-10 guys in the history of the game. He made the other guys better on the offensive end despite having a subpar shot. And he could play a little D. Craft can only play a lot of D. And if you're going to be a one-trick pony in the NBA(and don't kid yourself--unless you're a star, it's sometimes better to be really good at one thing than to just be good at several-Kyle Korver for example), better to be a shooter or a passer. I can't see a team using a roster spot on a defensive guy, especially at guard. They won't take a scorer off the floor at the end of a game for a shutdown guard. I have to give him credit though. I thought the new rules were going to hurt him, but he seems to be almost as good as his press clippings suggest on defense.

[somaplr]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1390971935' post='8556093']
Every minute of every game for the last ten years.
Rondo might be the worst shooting starting point guard in nba history. 62 percent career FT percentage , along with the fact that he has literally 0 mid to long range game. Similar type of style to craft, except craft can shoot free throws. I don't think I'd say rondo is a better shooter at all, let alone shoot circles around. Jason kidds shooting stats when he entered the league are pretty bad. He definitely progressed as his career moved on. Towards the end he was fine if not slightly above average shooting wise.

They don't make shots because they dont get good looks. Honestly craft isn't even as bad of a shooter as people think. He realistically has 3-5 junk shot attempts a game because of the stagnant offense. If he doesn't take them, it's Scott. Generally those the the two that when the shot clock is dwindling and no one is open (like most possessions) take the shot. So people act like they're so god awful when in reality their numbers are influenced by the pathetic offensive scheme.

Amir is 6 11. Do you have any idea how easy it is to be drafted highly in the nba as a big man ? Tyler zeller was almost a lottery pick and that guy barely has a pulse. Amir could easily be there with some work ethic. He's a great defender when he has his head in the game. Guy is a mcdonalds all American, don't act like he's some random 4 star recruit. He was very highly touted and has a lot of skill. It's the head that's the problem. Same with Scott. These guys know how to play basketball at a VERY high level, it's just the things getting in the way preventing them from doing so.
[/quote]

Rajon Rondo is actually one of the best mid range jump shooters in teh league at this point - a lot of myths about the ideology that he still can't shoot - which are wrong. Ricky Rubio is the worst shooting PG in league history - not Rondo. Rondo is actually a very underrated NBA shooter and has highly evolved since his rookie year. He's one of the best elbow shooters in the league. He's just doesn't take (or make) a lot of 3's. Advanced Statistical Analysis tells a lot of information beyond the myths.

[url="http://grantland.com/the-triangle/courtvision-everything-you-think-you-know-about-rondos-shooting-is-wrong/"]http://grantland.com...oting-is-wrong/[/url]

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1391014520' post='8558259']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1390971935' post='8556093']
Every minute of every game for the last ten years.
Rondo might be the worst shooting starting point guard in nba history. 62 percent career FT percentage , along with the fact that he has literally 0 mid to long range game. Similar type of style to craft, except craft can shoot free throws. I don't think I'd say rondo is a better shooter at all, let alone shoot circles around. Jason kidds shooting stats when he entered the league are pretty bad. He definitely progressed as his career moved on. Towards the end he was fine if not slightly above average shooting wise.

They don't make shots because they dont get good looks. Honestly craft isn't even as bad of a shooter as people think. He realistically has 3-5 junk shot attempts a game because of the stagnant offense. If he doesn't take them, it's Scott. Generally those the the two that when the shot clock is dwindling and no one is open (like most possessions) take the shot. So people act like they're so god awful when in reality their numbers are influenced by the pathetic offensive scheme.

Amir is 6 11. Do you have any idea how easy it is to be drafted highly in the nba as a big man ? Tyler zeller was almost a lottery pick and that guy barely has a pulse. Amir could easily be there with some work ethic. He's a great defender when he has his head in the game. Guy is a mcdonalds all American, don't act like he's some random 4 star recruit. He was very highly touted and has a lot of skill. It's the head that's the problem. Same with Scott. These guys know how to play basketball at a VERY high level, it's just the things getting in the way preventing them from doing so.
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Rajon Rondo is actually one of the best mid range jump shooters in teh league at this point - a lot of myths about the ideology that he still can't shoot - which are wrong. Ricky Rubio is the worst shooting PG in league history - not Rondo. Rondo is actually a very underrated NBA shooter and has highly evolved since his rookie year. He's one of the best elbow shooters in the league. He's just doesn't take (or make) a lot of 3's. Advanced Statistical Analysis tells a lot of information beyond the myths.

[url="http://grantland.com/the-triangle/courtvision-everything-you-think-you-know-about-rondos-shooting-is-wrong/"]http://grantland.com...oting-is-wrong/[/url]
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I'm not sure how I feel about rondo now. I mean obviously he has improved but it's like looking at Lebron's shooting numbers from 3 and saying he's a better shooter now than with the cavs. He probably is, but he also gets a TON way more open looks. Most teams that play against Boston give Rondo those shots all day, which I think tells something about his shooting. I still think it's something quite similar to craft. I mean people don't even give craft those midrange jumpers as much as they do rondo..... My point was just that when rondo entered the league, his shooting was pretty abysmal. Regardless of how people rate Kidd's or Rondos shooting, I think it would be agreed that you can still be an NBA point guard without having a great jump shot. I feel like 90 percent of the hate towards crafts jumper is how it looks. Which is funny because from a golf perspective we've been over the "it's not how, it's how many" thing about 1000x. His numbers arent good, but honestly I think a huge portion of that is the offense. So many junk shots per game.
Rondo is making them at a good percentage right now, but teams are still giving them to him. Not sure if this is going to be a long term thing or just a blip on the map, but I guess we will see with how teams defend him.
Also like how Sully has the pick and pop 3 working now. It seems like he gets a couple attempts a game that way! Sure different than any Sully I saw for the bucks!!!

Really hope they beat the crap out of PSU tonight and get some actual momentum into this tough stretch.

[SilverBullets]

[quote name='Bluefan75' timestamp='1391014090' post='8558205']
Yes but don't forget that even though Kidd wasn't the greatest shooter, he could pass the ball better than all but maybe 5-10 guys in the history of the game. He made the other guys better on the offensive end despite having a subpar shot. And he could play a little D. Craft can only play a lot of D. And if you're going to be a one-trick pony in the NBA(and don't kid yourself--unless you're a star, it's sometimes better to be really good at one thing than to just be good at several-Kyle Korver for example), better to be a shooter or a passer. I can't see a team using a roster spot on a defensive guy, especially at guard. They won't take a scorer off the floor at the end of a game for a shutdown guard. I have to give him credit though. I thought the new rules were going to hurt him, but he seems to be almost as good as his press clippings suggest on defense.
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Kidd also averaged 17 and 9 as a sophomore at Cal and showed significant improvement over he course of his fresh/soph years and each season in his first 4 in the nba. Kidd also completely dominated the NCAA his soph year. Craft is averaging what? 10 and 5 as a senior and has showen little (he may have actually digressed a little) improvement over the past 3 years.

Rondo is a little better example but the thing you are forgetting is rondo's speed and pure athleticism. Craft doesn't have that. Craft in my mind is like Tebow. A great college player. Hard working and a hustle guy. They are both limited from a athleticism stand point but literally got the most they could out of their body. However, they simple weren't given that naturally freakish body and it basically plateus them.

If anything, I could craft being Derek Fisher... That is assuming he develops some range with his shot.

[pinhigh27]

I'm not saying craft is going to be a top tier NBA point guard, just that he can definitely make it. Even with his current shooting.

Still don't get what their offense tries to do. I swear everything they do hurts them
The only thing they've ever had is transition and fast break, yet they try to slow the ball down as much as they can. I literally don't know if the offense has a goal. So far I'd say it would be to give the ball to a guy on the baseline. Hasn't worked out so hot