Brands Gone Bye Bye

[PKMillerJr]

[quote name='dlygrisse' timestamp='1325459016' post='4014311']
I went to the Kenneth Smith factory and showroom a couple of times before they went out of business. Sadly they just did not keep up with the times, and while their custom fitting was state of the art during their hay day, when companies like Ping and Callaway came along they became obsolete. Great quality clubs, maybe the best in the world at one time.

[quote name='BirdieBob' timestamp='1325453900' post='4014049']
Right....Kenneth Smith

Although a custom club maker they made some beautiful woods and stainless steel irons....

Talk about muscle!!

[attachment=966931:KS 9 iron.gif]
[/quote]
[/quote]

I would love to hear of your experiences and what you saw when you went there.

[memphishorn]

[quote name='PKMillerJr' timestamp='1325469897' post='4015227']
[quote name='dlygrisse' timestamp='1325459016' post='4014311']
I went to the Kenneth Smith factory and showroom a couple of times before they went out of business. Sadly they just did not keep up with the times, and while their custom fitting was state of the art during their hay day, when companies like Ping and Callaway came along they became obsolete. Great quality clubs, maybe the best in the world at one time.

[quote name='BirdieBob' timestamp='1325453900' post='4014049']
Right....Kenneth Smith

Although a custom club maker they made some beautiful woods and stainless steel irons....

Talk about muscle!!

[attachment=966931:KS 9 iron.gif]
[/quote]
[/quote]

I would love to hear of your experiences and what you saw when you went there.



I have attached a history of Kenneth Smith and his company I found on the net. It's a good overview. Locally, here in Memphis we had a similar yet much less well known club maker, Bert Dargie Golf. There were many pro's including Arnold Palmer, I'm told, that would go to Dargie's shop to tinker or have him tinker with their clubs when they were in town for the old Memphis Open (FedEx St Jude Classic).

I'm not sure when they closed but I think his son ran it for a while. Maybe within the last ten or fifteen years
[/quote]

[PKMillerJr]

[quote name='dlygrisse' timestamp='1325458882' post='4014303']
[quote name='spring7' timestamp='1325436957' post='4013125']
[quote name='rb83993' timestamp='1325436391' post='4013085']
Kunnan, first new driver I ever bought.
[/quote]


Has anyone said Kasco or McHenry Metals?
[/quote]

McHenrey metals were awesome clubs in their day, started by Gary Adams I believe who was the original founder of Taylor Made.
[/quote]

Found this article:

http://www.publinksgolfer.net/articles/40/1/Keeping-His-Dream-Alive:-Gary-Adams,-Father-of-the-Metal-Wood/Page1.html

[mr_duffer]

Hogan. Would be interesting to see some modern day musclebacks made by them.

[pt73]

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1325353384' post='4009907']
Sonartec!
[/quote]
Yes, the best wedges I have ever used.

[GatorNate11]

[quote name='square' timestamp='1325354004' post='4009955']
I do not miss any of the brands the OP mentioned.
[/quote]

Doesn't surprise me, they probably had too much loft and didn't promote a smooth stroke to quickly get the ball rolling.

[Golfwolf]

Hogan is the one I miss the most.

[jmvargas]

i have been playing golf since 1958--am 66-- and based on memory these are the brands/models of clubs i actually owned complete sets of woods/irons or at least a set of the irons;

...wilson staffs, macgregor tourneys, haig ultra, us royal, macregor vip, wilson 1200, prima, ping eye2, callaway s2h2..big bertha,..x-12..x-14 pro series..x-20..ft, bridgestone j36, tourstage z101..v7000, adams CB2... V3..

......i stayed with macgregor and callaway the longest.

i also had the big staff bags of wilson, macgregor, callaway, bridgestone and the smaller ones of ping and adams..

the original "macgregor" would be the brand i miss the most...

PS..kenneth smith was a real status-symbol club to own in the 60s...my uncles and many of the affluent players in my home country club had them..

[PKMillerJr]

[quote name='jmvargas' timestamp='1325505965' post='4016677']
i have been playing golf since 1958--am 66-- and based on memory these are the brands/models of clubs i actually owned complete sets of woods/irons or at least a set of the irons;

...wilson staffs, macgregor tourneys, haig ultra, us royal, macregor vip, wilson 1200, prima, ping eye2, callaway s2h2..big bertha,..x-12..x-14 pro series..x-20..ft, bridgestone j36, tourstage z101..v7000, adams V3..

......i stayed with macgregor and callaway the longest.

i also had the big staff bags of wilson, macgregor, callaway, bridgestone and the smaller ones of ping and adams..

the original "macgregor" would be the brand i miss the most...

PS..kenneth smith was a real status-symbol club to own in the 60s...my uncles and many of the affluent players in my home country club had them..
[/quote]

Mickey Mantle had Kenneth Smith and Powerbilt plus probably some others. I remember seeing a Kenneth Smith catalog that showed an incredible number of subflexes of shafts they had. I think they were proprietary shafts and I do not know if it was True Temper or not that made them for them.

[OrangeCrush]

Old Zevo. Back when I was getting into golf back in the mid late 90's only Ping and Zevo offered custom fitting for length/lie angle. At the time Pings were $900 and Zevos were $700. I really liked the feel of the Zevo Oversized. I had many people try them and they were shocked how soft they were. As I got better around 2001-2002 and needed less offset in my irons Zevo was on the outs, I would have got their player's midsize in a heart beat!

I have said this 100 times, if my oversized had a low offset I would STILL be playing them! I loved them. I still have them in my basement but I hook them so bad I can't play them.

[Midnightexpress]

Campbell irons. i had a set 20 or so years ago.. they were great lol. ill be damned if i can find a picture of them.

[stingingbee]

[quote name='PKMillerJr' timestamp='1325377996' post='4011339']
[quote name='Llortamaisey' timestamp='1325352581' post='4009851']
[quote name='PKMillerJr' timestamp='1325349452' post='4009653']
[quote name='Llortamaisey' timestamp='1325347688' post='4009557']
I heard Nicklaus Golf closed their doors this year. I wonder what companies will leave us or change hands next year.
[/quote]

I didn't hear that. Where did you hear that? I saw Nicklaus Golf is launching a new European website in 2012. I do not know for sure that you are mistaken but I do not think this is correct.
[/quote]

I don't know for sure. I heard it through a local golf retailer I have done business with in the past. He told me they were liquidating the entire stock back in October/November. He bought several clubs from them at a deep discount.

He was speaking about the American division so its possible the European division stayed open. I could be completely mistaken about the whole deal. I could have misheard him or he might have misspoke. I hope I'm wrong, frankly.

Obviously it's just heresay on my end. Maybe someone who follows Nicklaus a little closer can shed some light on the subject.
[/quote]
Please see if you can confirm. I do not think I saw Nicklaus Golf listed at the 2012 PGA show and thought they had just not registered yet. I thought Nicklaus Golf made money as they didn't sponsor any pros and saved money that way. I am really interested in this. I asked Clay Long in a different post about new blade irons and he never replied. Maybe this is why. Jack might consider buying MacGregor from Golfsmith and have a whir at it again. IMO, the Nicklaus clubs may have peformed well but were not pleasing to the eye. I did not like any of their irons as of late. The old JNP forged blades made by Nicklaus were nice and looked alot like the JNP's made by MacGregor. They had too much offset for my taste.
[/quote]

Sorry I didn't see you post about blade. I would be glad to answer if I can find it. Funny you should mention offset in the JNP's. Jack has been using more offset in the past 10 years than he did before that time. I matched up his old set which had more offset bent into it, with the 2001 JNP forgings. They certainly look more offset than the older stuff, and are. He likes more offset in his wedges too, which I don't care for myself, but he is the customer in that respect.
As far as Nicklaus Golf is concerned, they are indeed shutting down their domestic club business starting Jan. 2012. They will license some international customers who will buy directly from the factories, but no more clubs here in the US. Too bad, I'll miss working with such a great bunch of people there in West Palm. They had a 19 year run and outlasted a bunch of bigger better known companies.

[jmvargas]

with regards to kenneth smith, i was able to get a brand new still in plastic 9-wood head from ebay last year of their royal series model and had it assembled by my local clubmaker..

very nice head and good performance but have not been using it anymore since i went to hybrids..

but alas!!...the sticker said "made in china"..

[DemoDayRAT]

I will have to say I miss Accuform the most. A Canadian company that made outstanding clubs back in the day in an abandoned aircraft factory. The irons were cast but where so soft I had to have the specs re-checked every six-eight months. They also came out with the last set of Square headed woods (stainless steel) before the current crop of large Square Titanium heads from different companies.
They were ahead of their time at one point, but did not keep up with trends and advancements in the industry.

[PKMillerJr]

[quote name='stingingbee' timestamp='1325566504' post='4020613']
[quote name='PKMillerJr' timestamp='1325377996' post='4011339']
[quote name='Llortamaisey' timestamp='1325352581' post='4009851']
[quote name='PKMillerJr' timestamp='1325349452' post='4009653']
[quote name='Llortamaisey' timestamp='1325347688' post='4009557']
I heard Nicklaus Golf closed their doors this year. I wonder what companies will leave us or change hands next year.
[/quote]

I didn't hear that. Where did you hear that? I saw Nicklaus Golf is launching a new European website in 2012. I do not know for sure that you are mistaken but I do not think this is correct.
[/quote]

I don't know for sure. I heard it through a local golf retailer I have done business with in the past. He told me they were liquidating the entire stock back in October/November. He bought several clubs from them at a deep discount.

He was speaking about the American division so its possible the European division stayed open. I could be completely mistaken about the whole deal. I could have misheard him or he might have misspoke. I hope I'm wrong, frankly.

Obviously it's just heresay on my end. Maybe someone who follows Nicklaus a little closer can shed some light on the subject.
[/quote]
Please see if you can confirm. I do not think I saw Nicklaus Golf listed at the 2012 PGA show and thought they had just not registered yet. I thought Nicklaus Golf made money as they didn't sponsor any pros and saved money that way. I am really interested in this. I asked Clay Long in a different post about new blade irons and he never replied. Maybe this is why. Jack might consider buying MacGregor from Golfsmith and have a whir at it again. IMO, the Nicklaus clubs may have peformed well but were not pleasing to the eye. I did not like any of their irons as of late. The old JNP forged blades made by Nicklaus were nice and looked alot like the JNP's made by MacGregor. They had too much offset for my taste.
[/quote]

Sorry I didn't see you post about blade. I would be glad to answer if I can find it. Funny you should mention offset in the JNP's. Jack has been using more offset in the past 10 years than he did before that time. I matched up his old set which had more offset bent into it, with the 2001 JNP forgings. They certainly look more offset than the older stuff, and are. He likes more offset in his wedges too, which I don't care for myself, but he is the customer in that respect.
As far as Nicklaus Golf is concerned, they are indeed shutting down their domestic club business starting Jan. 2012. They will license some international customers who will buy directly from the factories, but no more clubs here in the US. Too bad, I'll miss working with such a great bunch of people there in West Palm. They had a 19 year run and outlasted a bunch of bigger better known companies.
[/quote]

1. What was Jack's old set?
2. Edwin Watts Golf told me they would know more after the PGA show if Nicklaus Golf was reorganizing or shutting down. A different retailer told me that NG was not producing any golf equipment. The international customers -- Will they be buying old designed or newly designed equipment? Is Clay Long staying on?
3. What happened? I thought NG was profitable as a boutique golf company with lower overhead.

[kevn357]

Sonartec. Still game their wedges. If it wasn't for exotics i would miss my gs tour 3 wood.

[Left of Left]

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1325353384' post='4009907']
Sonartec!
[/quote]
+1

[avgjoe]

Anyone remember cougar? Had some rhythym blades and persimmon woods that were nice

[3jacker]

Hogan. I still play a set. I guess Mizuno's forged offerings are the closest thing to them, as a line. But the QA standards across ALL of the companies today is nowhere near where Hogan's were back when Ben was alive and in charge.

I know of a guy who got his Mizuno's delivered directly from Mizuno with the shafts installed backwards. 3-iron shaft in the wedge, wedge shaft in the 3-iron. He happens to work for a very well-known golf publication, which could have been extremely embarrassing for Mizuno. Of course, no golf publication would ever actually print ANYTHING detrimental about an advertisor, so Mizuno is safe. But to be fair, all of the companies could have this problem. Nothing is completely manufactured in-house, unless you go to the truly (kenneth smith-style) custom shops.

Not that the modern market sucks by any means. I think a quickly thrown together iron from today is a better club than the most carefully crafted iron from the 80s. I love many of the sticks on the market today. So many clubs, so little time and money...

[PKMillerJr]

I got this from Nicklaus Golf today and am saddened to hear it but here it is:

[b]Happy New Year!
Hello from the Nicklaus Companies and thank you for your email and
support of our products.
Yes, your are correct about Nicklaus Golf Equipment.

The Nicklaus Companies has transitioned out of the US Operations for
Nicklaus Golf Equipment.
Effective Jan. 1, 2012, Nicklaus Golf Equipment will be solely a
licensee products division.
Currently, we only have international licensee's and none in the US.

However, Clay Long is still the Nicklaus designer and will continue to
do so for 2012 and beyond on the international front.

Unfortunately, the JNP irons have all been sold as well as the Black
staff bags.
We would suggest an online search for these items?

Sincerely,

Nicklaus Companies[/b]

[Bad9]

[quote name='Medic' timestamp='1325346930' post='4009523']Ironically there is another thread discussing Callaway's fiscal problems. Perhaps if they manufactured Hogan irons again, got a couple of their pros to game them, and ran some ads then they might actually realize increased sales. I personally know at least one player, a physician, who loves his Hogan irons and does not want to replace them because he cannot get the same brand again. I am certain he would buy a new set if it was available. (I tried to talk him into some Razr Forged last year and he was absolutely opposed citing how nice his Hogan's feel and he doesn't want to give up that feeling.)
[/quote]


Despite what people want to believe Callaway kept the Hogan brand for a number of years, separate from itself. No one bought the clubs. The Hogan brand was losing money when it was losing money in 1992, still losing money when it was bought by Spalding in 1997. Callaway bought the Spalding assets, including Hogan, out of bankruptsy in 2003. Despite offering clubs that were almost all forged (excluding the BH-5 which has a cult-like following) people still weren't buying the clubs and hadn't been for 15 years before Callaway was ever involved.

[Fornesto]

Resurrect HOGAN!!

[mat562]

Crikey. Loads.

[i]Joe Powell[/i], for one. Persimmon-fettlers extraordinaire.

[i]Maxfli[/i]. Makers of fantastic golf balls until they screwed up the HT balata with that clicky cover, and makers of such gems as the Aussie Blades, Pro Special, Tour Ltd. CBs and the Revolution Blacks, too. Now, purveyors of budget-priced tat after being butchered by Taylor Made.

[i]Hogan.[/i] Some of the finest irons in the business for 30 years or more. Then consigned to the scrapheap by Callaway after they bought Top Flite for the ball patents and got Hogan as a free gift.

[i]Ram[/i]. Watson. Player. Ballesteros. Price. Now you too can own a piece of the legend. About 100 quid buys you 9 clubs' worth of cast zinc alloy cavity backedness at a local discount golf shop. Tragic.

Just like [i]MacGregor.[/i] Also tragic. Some of the best clubs ever made, and played by the greatest player the game's ever seen. Now, again, on the scrapheap.

[i]Cobra.[/i] Alright, they haven't disappeared into obscurity, but they once made the Norman signature blades and other gems. Now they're making bright orange tat for Rickie Fowler wannabes. Oh dear.

[i]Dunlop/Slazenger. [/i]An iconic British sporting marque, they were the parent company behind the Maxfli brand. Slazenger once made clubs for Seve and Dunlop made raquets for Steffi Graf and John McEnroe. Now, the only thing they make that's worth bothering about are the balls at Wimbledon and clothing. Their golf clubs are junk and their golf balls are mass produced pebbles. What a pity.

[i]Sandvik. [/i]They're still going, under a new name, and you can still buy the things, but I miss the days when you could put a titanium-shafted club into play easily without having to blunder onto a set of shafts that were gathering dust in the back of a pro shop or special ordering the things from 5000 miles away. Graphite may be better on paper, but I've never bagged a set of graphite-shafted irons for more than a couple of rounds versus shooting two course records with titanium-shafted ones.

[PKMillerJr]

I didn't realize Ballesteros played RAM at one time.

[bazinky]

[quote name='mat562' timestamp='1325619158' post='4022687']
Crikey. Loads.

[i]Joe Powell[/i], for one. Persimmon-fettlers extraordinaire.

[i]Maxfli[/i]. Makers of fantastic golf balls until they screwed up the HT balata with that clicky cover, and makers of such gems as the Aussie Blades, Pro Special, Tour Ltd. CBs and the Revolution Blacks, too. Now, purveyors of budget-priced tat after being butchered by Taylor Made.

[i]Hogan.[/i] Some of the finest irons in the business for 30 years or more. Then consigned to the scrapheap by Callaway after they bought Top Flite for the ball patents and got Hogan as a free gift.

[[b]i]Ram[/i]. Watson. Player. Ballesteros. Price. Now you too can own a piece of the legend. About 100 quid buys you 9 clubs' worth of cast zinc alloy cavity backedness at a local discount golf shop. Tragic.[/b]Just like [i]MacGregor.[/i] Also tragic. Some of the best clubs ever made, and played by the greatest player the game's ever seen. Now, again, on the scrapheap.

[i]Cobra.[/i] Alright, they haven't disappeared into obscurity, but they once made the Norman signature blades and other gems. Now they're making bright orange tat for Rickie Fowler wannabes. Oh dear.

[i]Dunlop/Slazenger. [/i]An iconic British sporting brand, Dunlop were the parent company behind the Maxfli brand and Slazenger once made clubs for Seve and raquets for Steffi Graf and John McEnroe. Now, the only thing they make that's worth bothering about are the balls at Wimbledon and clothing. Their golf clubs are junk and their golf balls are mass produced pebbles. What a pity.

[i]Sandvik. [/i]They're still going, under a new name, and you can still buy the things, but I miss the days when you could put a titanium-shafted club into play easily without having to blunder onto a set of shafts that were gathering dust in the back of a pro shop or special ordering the things from 5000 miles away. Graphite may be better on paper, but I've never bagged a set of graphite-shafted irons for more than a couple of rounds versus shooting two course records with titanium-shafted ones.
[/quote]

I really miss RAM. I've still got a set of beautiful Tour Grinds (2-PW) in my garage. Started playing them when I was studying for my Comps. I'd play 18 every day just to relieve the stress. Sadly, I doubt I'll ever get to play and practice enough to have any business playing clubs like that again ...

[Eec55]

Pinseeker...lol

[fat eel]

[quote name='pt73' timestamp='1325491289' post='4016539']
[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1325353384' post='4009907']
Sonartec!
[/quote]
Yes, the best wedges I have ever used.
[/quote]

Sonartec, best FW woods and hybrids ever make!

[Bodee]

How about Daiwa? Guess they are still in business, but haven't seen any of their clubs in about 35 years. A lot of the guys at the Country Club where I used to caddy had them.

[mat562]

Isn't the oddly named OnOff the sort of 'Son of Daiwa?'

[mat562]

[quote name='PKMillerJr' timestamp='1325619323' post='4022709']
I didn't realize Ballesteros played RAM at one time.
[/quote]
He did for a while. Or, at least, his caddie carried a Ram bag for a time when he was playing.

1978 onwards, if memory serves.