Funny: More Camerons at top amateur events as % than PGA Tour

[Peter K.]

It is getting to be truly amazing, how many angles and disguises Cameron haters try in their efforts to bash him and/or his products.

[jgpl]

Most top amateurs play the best make in each category:

Drivers - TM/Titleist
Irons - Mizuno/Titleist/Ping
Wedges - Vokeys
Putters - Camerons
Ball - ProV1 and 1x

You play the best to try give you the edge, not because you are paid to play a particular brand

Even many non TM guys on the tour bag R11 drivers

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

Cameron don't make putters that suit my stroke so I am no fan. But forget about the top amateurs or Tour pros, I see plenty of hackers at my club putting with Scotty Cameron putters. Here's the deal, they are the most widely available "premium" putter out there. And everyone has seen the guys playing on TV with them. How could they not be extremely popular where ever you look?

Internet equipment geeks aside, nobody can name 14 top-quality custom putter makers off the top of their head. In fact they couldn't name five if you gave them a month to think about it. Maybe one golfer in twenty has ever seen a Bettinardi putter in person and only one in ten even knows the name. T.P. Mills? Most people think that was a Spalding house brand back in the day if they've even heard the name at all.

Yet walk into any big box golf store in the country and you'll see a dozen or more Cameron putters. They will be the most expensive putter in the store, most times. You'll see a couple of them in the majority of "green grass" pro shops as well. If someone has $350 burning a hole in their pocket for "A Really Nice Putter" they are going to think Cameron, see Cameron, buy Cameron, play Cameron.

Not much mystery there. And they make a fine putter so it isn't like they're getting ripped off for the money.

[OB ReT Hit 3]

Top Ams use these putters because they are free and customized.

Players can pick sitelines, finishes, stamping, etc and Team titleist will get it for them.

[goinlow254]

I'm a +1.4... and I roll a SC Fastback #1 because I like it. I paid 170 for it. Does this mean I'm dying to get street cred? Do I need to go buy a new TM Ghost so I won't "be like everyone else". I don't want to be grouped with people like that. I have an all Titleist bag from the top down, I should probably buy new stuff so the OP won't think I'm a bandwaggoner.

[bushy007]

[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1340343446' post='5147130']
[quote name='Raden44' timestamp='1340343223' post='5147120']
[quote/]
Nope amateurs are allowed to accept a certain number of free clubs each year, and the NCAA players get equipment provided to them through their schools.

You can read all about it in the USGA's rules of amateur status.

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story though LOL!
[/quote]

It doesn't change or contradict my main point of this topic, although you seemed to try to apply some hopeful logic.
[/quote]

Your main point is that top amateurs are paying $300 for putters because they bought into commercials. Despite the fact that:

1) these amateurs are not paying for their putters and have access to any putter they want for free.

2) there are no Scotty Cameron commercials. There are titleist commercials, and sometimes you catch a glimpse of one of their putters, but no Scotty Cameron commercials.

You attempted a hate thread without knowing the facts. It didn't pan out. Lock it up.
[/quote]
EXACTLY>>>


OP-nice try =FAIL

[pssywgn]

Ummm, I don't watch much Golfchannel. So I've never seen a Scotty Cameron tv commercial. On normal tv channels, during golf coverage, I have seen a ton of Titleist ball ads and Odyssey putter ads. And Ping I/G20 driver ads.

Amateurs are NOT paid or contracted into specific equipment. Pros are. Not saying that if that didn't exist for certain players, they would jump back to a Scotty. But just sayin, it does make a difference. If somebody paid me to play a Bridgestone ball instead of my loved prov1x, I'd do it.

Also, my Odyssey #1 cost me $135 new. I hated the grip, the shaft was too light and cheap, and the overall build quality of it was what I would consider what you get for a $100 putter.

Maybe the pro's Odysseys are better. Also, that insert is made out of similar material as a golf ball cover to get their "true roll" off the face. That crap is just as scuff prone as a normal golf ball. Don't ever putt on a green that has been seeded and sanded and try to wipe off one of those with any lack of care, you're going to scratch the crap out of the face.

An Odyssey isn't a 'bad' putter. But it hits the $135 dollar, 35 handicapper price point. Because anybody not serious about their game, probably won't even spend that on a putter. But they'll go buy a new $500 driver.

But for $135, you get a $135 putter. Which is something that looks and feels (to me) like it lies exactly in between a $500 Cameron or Bertidini (spelling), and a $15 Walmart putter.

[MixedBag]

Maybe, just maybe Scotty makes a good product and people like it???



btw: many of my friends have ran out and purchased a Scotty after playing with mine; they didn't ask about the price, they simply wanted one after playing a few holes with it. of course, they all love my Lajosi as well





PSSYWGN,
I totally agree with you on the Driver statement. 'Some' people freak out about the price of highend OTR putters, yet they blow $400-500 on a driver they might swing 12-13 times a round.

[SheriffBooth]

Biology lab dissection by Thrillhouse. Nicely done - I think I can see Raden's gallbladder.

[rrkman]

This debate is just silly. First off, none of us know why those kids (or for that matter, why most people) use the the putter they choose to use. Could be any number of reasons....from price, to vanity, to performance, to incentives, etc. And why does it even matter? I'm also sure that Cameron's marketing machine realizes that getting camerons into the hands of the top amateurs early on is a good business decision. They certainly want the putter these kids feel comfortable with to the be their putter so that in 5 - 10 years, that kid might be more likely to game the same brand when putting for a PGA title and $1,000,000. Simple business there....and if other companies aren't doing it, dumb move. And to say these kids aren't paid might be true but many certainly get 'incentives'. Do you think that colleges don't have equipment contracts with golf companies?...same with high schools? There are loopholes all over the place....golf is a billion dollar business, getting kids, men, women, anyone, to use your product is part of that business.

[sgtsodo]

Who gives a faak what these kids are playing? Circle Ts are cool, even if these kids aren't getting the putters for free why does it really matter what they or their parents spend on equipment?

[SoCalTitleist]

By far TMAG is the biggest marketing machine.

[shootermcgavin2]

ok i almost feel dumber for having read this.......but after all the back and forth i must ask, what the hell again was your actual point raden? what were you getting at? are you knocking scotty? are you knocking top amateurs as being a bunch of blind followers? or are you knocking the kids local to you for being that way?

[stickman]

Believe it or not a lot of the top amateurs in the world are using belly or long putters.

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

I suspect he was motivated by a desire to demonstrate the superiority of his taste in putters over that of the Cool Kids playing top-level amateur golf. I mean, he might be out there shooting 65 and winning big-time tournaments but man he's rolling it with a blade way cooler than any Scotty I assure you!

[Techgolfer1]

[quote name='J.W.' timestamp='1340343112' post='5147108']
You made a thread about the "top amateurs in the world", they do not spend money for equipment. Its not against any rules to accept free equipment.
[/quote]

Exactly! I played college golf, was not one of the best and received nothing. However, we had one of the best in the nation on my team and he was usually sent at least the newest irons, driver, wedges and balls for free. He actually contacted the manufacturer by email and a guy introduced himself to him at the NCAA regionals after watching him play.

We did not have a club company as a sponsor for our team, but some had manufacturers in their area that would support them. I you noticed the US Open and Casey Martin (coaches Oregon) had NIKE on, because Phil Knight (think thats his name) is a graduate and huge supporter of Oregon athletics. I would imagine that no player on that team has trouble getting their hands on free NIKE gear.

[shootermcgavin2]

[quote name='Fourmyle of Ceres' timestamp='1340375225' post='5148514']
I suspect he was motivated by a desire to demonstrate the superiority of his taste in putters over that of the Cool Kids playing top-level amateur golf. I mean, he might be out there shooting 65 and winning big-time tournaments but man he's rolling it with a blade way cooler than any Scotty I assure you!
[/quote]

lol truth. was nodding my head in agreement while reading your earlier post as well, kudos.

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

And hey, in my case this is coming from a guy who until recently owned not one but two Bettinardi putters...and who couldn't break 80 if you gave me two mulligans a side! But dang that Studio Stock #8 was one cool flat stick, I'm here to tell you.

[hebron1427]

the OP's biases aside, I always thought it was odd that every top amateur seemed to play the same equipment. there was a post awhile back (i think in the equipment section) about a guy caddying at the US Open local qualifier and taking a survey of what those players were using. it seemed like it was in line with the OP--ie, everyone for the most part used the same stuff. seems like it's always been that way too.

i'm not saying good amateurs should all of a sudden start playing RBZ irons and gaming the ping nome, but it is odd to me. they definitely dont have people walking up to them and begging them to bag their clubs like tour pros do, so i'd guess tour pros are naturally more exposed to the different equipment that's out there. you play whatever gives you an edge. cameron is perceived to be a very high quality product, and, whether you agree with it or not, if the player believes it's a better product, then he believes it gives him an edge; if he believes it gives him an edge, it does give him an edge, because mentally he doesn't have to think about distrusting his equipment. people on this forum know there are lots of quality options; i'm not sure top amateurs are as in the loop. i once played with a good amateur who had a jim wells putter--it was a 1-off mod of one of their OTR models that they'd done for a tour pro. they gave it to him (he apparently had some history with them). when i told him i liked his jim wells putter, he gave me a funny look like "what are you talkign about?" i explained to him what the serial numbers meant and he said "ah, ok, i'm going to have to look into that." guy shot -2 that day.

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

The best player I know is the guy I used to take lessons from (who is also a friend of mine). He really doesn't keep up with equipment to 1/10 the extent of your hard-core GolfWRX member. He buys his wedges based on how they look, the shape of the sole and whatever. He gets fitted for driver shafts by basically going through a launch monitor fitting and trying whatever's available then picking the one that feels good and has good numbers. He's been playing the same Scotty Cameron putter for the better part of a decade, before that he had a Ping Anser for a million years.

My point being, a lot of those big-time amateurs are going to pick whatever works best for them from among a small number of brands. Titleist, Mizuno, Taylor Made, Ping, Scotty Cameron. There's plenty of choices and customization within the mainstream stuff that it just isn't worth their time turning over ever rock in the world hoping to find some obscure (to them, not to us) model of putter or wedge or driver shaft that might be a teeny, tiny, little bit better than the popular stuff. It isn't like they're going to shave a stroke off their game by using some other high-$$$ putter instead of that Scotty they've used for years.

[BSkip]

[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1340348289' post='5147300']
[quote name='Raden44' timestamp='1340347573' post='5147280']
[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1340347018' post='5147268']


You should have just admitted that you didn't know what you were talking about five posts ago. My reading comprehension is bang on as I have disproved the multiple falsehoods in your very own posts. And now that you have clearly been defeated in this debate rather than admit said defeat like a gentleman you choose to resort to childish insults.

It's sad really.
[/quote]

I don't know why but I'll try one last time to show you my obvious point "Do you really think all those top amateur college players had no brand or "favorite player emulation' biases when they chose to game their Cameron putters?"

Now I have to figure what I am going to have to do to get back the IQ points I lost in trying to understand your logic.
[/quote]

thats a good question, you should start a thread that asks it. this one doesnt.
[/quote]
/thread

[hebron1427]

[quote name='Fourmyle of Ceres' timestamp='1340379909' post='5149050']
The best player I know is the guy I used to take lessons from (who is also a friend of mine). He really doesn't keep up with equipment to 1/10 the extent of your hard-core GolfWRX member. He buys his wedges based on how they look, the shape of the sole and whatever. He gets fitted for driver shafts by basically going through a launch monitor fitting and trying whatever's available then picking the one that feels good and has good numbers. He's been playing the same Scotty Cameron putter for the better part of a decade, before that he had a Ping Anser for a million years.

My point being, a lot of those big-time amateurs are going to pick whatever works best for them from among a small number of brands. Titleist, Mizuno, Taylor Made, Ping, Scotty Cameron. There's plenty of choices and customization within the mainstream stuff that it just isn't worth their time turning over ever rock in the world hoping to find some obscure (to them, not to us) model of putter or wedge or driver shaft that might be a teeny, tiny, little bit better than the popular stuff. It isn't like they're going to shave a stroke off their game by using some other high-$$$ putter instead of that Scotty they've used for years.
[/quote]

being an equipment junkie doesn't make you better at golf???? why am i here?

[FlopShotFred]

i came into this thread thinking i would find some real, interesting, statistics about actual players, at actual events...

it's ok though, i'm not leaving disappointed, this thread made my day!

[shootermcgavin2]

[quote name='hebron1427' timestamp='1340379081' post='5148950']
the OP's biases aside, I always thought it was odd that every top amateur seemed to play the same equipment. there was a post awhile back (i think in the equipment section) about a guy caddying at the US Open local qualifier and taking a survey of what those players were using. it seemed like it was in line with the OP--ie, everyone for the most part used the same stuff. seems like it's always been that way too.

i'm not saying good amateurs should all of a sudden start playing RBZ irons and gaming the ping nome, but it is odd to me. they definitely dont have people walking up to them and begging them to bag their clubs like tour pros do, so i'd guess tour pros are naturally more exposed to the different equipment that's out there. you play whatever gives you an edge. cameron is perceived to be a very high quality product, and, whether you agree with it or not, if the player believes it's a better product, then he believes it gives him an edge; if he believes it gives him an edge,[b] it does give him an edge, because mentally he doesn't have to think about distrusting his equipment. [/b]people on this forum know there are lots of quality options; i'm not sure top amateurs are as in the loop. i once played with a good amateur who had a jim wells putter--it was a 1-off mod of one of their OTR models that they'd done for a tour pro. they gave it to him (he apparently had some history with them). when i told him i liked his jim wells putter, he gave me a funny look like "what are you talkign about?" i explained to him what the serial numbers meant and he said "ah, ok, i'm going to have to look into that." guy shot -2 that day.
[/quote]

boom, nailed it. i feel more confident putting w/my $300 boutique putter than i do the $15 dunlop from walmart.

[Pure745]

[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1340343446' post='5147130']
[quote name='Raden44' timestamp='1340343223' post='5147120']
[quote/]
Nope amateurs are allowed to accept a certain number of free clubs each year, and the NCAA players get equipment provided to them through their schools.

You can read all about it in the USGA's rules of amateur status.

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story though LOL!
[/quote]

It doesn't change or contradict my main point of this topic, although you seemed to try to apply some hopeful logic.
[/quote]

Your main point is that top amateurs are paying $300 for putters because they bought into commercials. Despite the fact that:

1) these amateurs are not paying for their putters and have access to any putter they want for free.

2) there are no Scotty Cameron commercials. There are titleist commercials, and sometimes you catch a glimpse of one of their putters, but no Scotty Cameron commercials.

You attempted a hate thread without knowing the facts. It didn't pan out. Lock it up.
[/quote]

End thread.

Thrillhouse, head over to the Shotmaker thread after this one

[pssywgn]

[quote name='MixedBag' timestamp='1340370453' post='5148064']
PSSYWGN,
I totally agree with you on the Driver statement. 'Some' people freak out about the price of highend OTR putters, yet they blow $400-500 on a driver they might swing 12-13 times a round.
[/quote]

I use my driver 5 times a round, on the courses around here I can afford to play. 3 of the 4 par 5s, then 2 of the par 4's.

I only spent $100 used for my 909D3 with an aftermarket decent shaft. I spent $150 used on my TEi3 and refurbished it to look like a $400 putter. I didn't know what a Scotty Cameron putter was in middle/high school. But first time using the assistant pro's TEI3 back in the late 90's, I was hooooooked.

Could never afford one new or used till now.

[ajga98]

I don't think the top amatuers need to play a cameron to "putt good" at that level they will putt with whatever they putt best with

[KILLEDBYASHANKEDWEDGE]

My kids transition from 3 putter extraordinaire to 28 to 30 putts a round average can be directly attributed to one high dollar, fancy, customized, cherry bomb birdie machine he got one Christmas morning. It inspired confidence in his putting he never knew he had. He slept with it for weeks, and most likely will never part with it, ever. Thanks Scotty. That's it in his hand, along with his Scratch 60, he is in love with his short game.

[Scotty1140]

[quote name='hebron1427' timestamp='1340388276' post='5149952']
[quote name='Fourmyle of Ceres' timestamp='1340379909' post='5149050']
The best player I know is the guy I used to take lessons from (who is also a friend of mine). He really doesn't keep up with equipment to 1/10 the extent of your hard-core GolfWRX member. He buys his wedges based on how they look, the shape of the sole and whatever. He gets fitted for driver shafts by basically going through a launch monitor fitting and trying whatever's available then picking the one that feels good and has good numbers. He's been playing the same Scotty Cameron putter for the better part of a decade, before that he had a Ping Anser for a million years.

My point being, a lot of those big-time amateurs are going to pick whatever works best for them from among a small number of brands. Titleist, Mizuno, Taylor Made, Ping, Scotty Cameron. There's plenty of choices and customization within the mainstream stuff that it just isn't worth their time turning over ever rock in the world hoping to find some obscure (to them, not to us) model of putter or wedge or driver shaft that might be a teeny, tiny, little bit better than the popular stuff. It isn't like they're going to shave a stroke off their game by using some other high-$$$ putter instead of that Scotty they've used for years.
[/quote]

being an equipment junkie doesn't make you better at golf???? why am i here?
[/quote]
Shhhh. Quiet. If that gets out, it may be the end of the golfwrx forums as wel know it!

[Beastmode Broker]

[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1340343446' post='5147130']
[quote name='Raden44' timestamp='1340343223' post='5147120']
[quote/]
Nope amateurs are allowed to accept a certain number of free clubs each year, and the NCAA players get equipment provided to them through their schools.

You can read all about it in the USGA's rules of amateur status.

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story though LOL!
[/quote]

It doesn't change or contradict my main point of this topic, although you seemed to try to apply some hopeful logic.
[/quote]

Your main point is that top amateurs are paying $300 for putters because they bought into commercials. Despite the fact that:

1) these amateurs are not paying for their putters and have access to any putter they want for free.

2) t[u][i][b]here are no Scotty Cameron commercials.[/b][/i][/u] There are titleist commercials, and sometimes you catch a glimpse of one of their putters, but no Scotty Cameron commercials.

You attempted a hate thread without knowing the facts. It didn't pan out. Lock it up.
[/quote]

thank you ..... all those Scotty Cameron commercials got me brain washed too