It's official: USGA, R&A propose anchor ban

[tbowles411]

[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1354163275' post='5993565']
[quote name='pjcallen' timestamp='1354161236' post='5993433']
Golf is dying a slow death in terms of rounds played and the financial health of golf courses is at a low. So in order to lose another 5 to 10% of the golfers the USGA throws out a putting method that has been going on for years. What a bad decision by the folks that are supposed to protect the game. What were they thinking. This is a big fail!
[/quote]

Go to any range

Watch all the new golfers

Avoid the short game and putting practice area

Head to the stall

Pull out their driver

And start swinging from their heels

Putting is the last thing the annual influx of new golfers/buyers is thinking of.
[/quote]
Truth.

[Crab Daddy]

[quote name='bobfoster' timestamp='1354154354' post='5992847']
They simply did it for the same reason all sports ruling bodies do things ... because on the whole it is going make [i]far[/i] more fans happy than unhappy.

It is easy, on WRX, to forget what a hotbed of fanatics this is ... to forget that sometimes that makes us very far from the norm (in our tastes in equipment, numbers of rounds per year, and number of tournaments we watch). The USGA concerns itself with the 25 million or so people that played this year (many of them only a round or two), and the 50 million that watched golf this year (many who may have only seen a tourney or two, and don't even play).
[/quote]

It would make far more fans happy than unhappy if OB was treated as a lateral hazard, especially the many playing only a few rounds per year.
But, I don't think that's on the agenda.

[Dead Solid Perfect]

Only the USGA could make a rule 30-70 yrs late and act like its doing the golfing world a favor. This is stuffy old guy stuff here. The belly being the advantage it is has allowed played to shoot in the 50's for the past few years!! .... What's that no belly putter has been in the 50's and only 1 in the top 25 money list. Ok now I'm getting confused

[puttingmatt]

Admit it guys, Are there any Wrxer's out there that were really that surprised
by today's announcement ?

[Crab Daddy]

[quote name='KYMAR' timestamp='1354154017' post='5992819']
[quote name='Ogre41' timestamp='1354152202' post='5992669']
The whole argument that it "looks" rediculous is rediculous. Who is to judge that? Honestly, I think white belts are look weird, but that's just my opinion. I will continue to use mine because it allows me to see the line much better. Will I change, probably, but I may look into getting a putter bent way upright to see the line better. But, while using my broomstick, I will of corse wear two gloves and a massive sun hat with a pirate feather. If I am going to be judged by how my putting style (non anchored) looks, I may as well go all in.
[/quote]

And even that argument is less ridiculous than spelling ridiculous, rediculous. No one at the press conference I watched stated anywhere in their list of reasons for this rule is because of how it looks. It was about [i]the stroke [/i]and how it should be made. If they were concerned so much about appearances they would have banned IJPs wardrobe a decade ago. Loudmouth Daly's too.
[/quote]

We are on opposing sides about anchoring, but I completely agree with you about spelling and why this decision was made (or what is not the reason).
And, I am all for banning John Daly's pants ... as long as he has a different pair to put on.

[Jamboy72]

No not really surprised, but I am a little perplexed by the inclusion of the Kuchar method...

[puttingmatt]

[quote name='topekareal' timestamp='1354164497' post='5993627']
No not really surprised, but I am a little perplexed by the inclusion of the Kuchar method...
[/quote]
There could be some form of amending this first draft of the anchoring rule. Like all
proposals, first comes shock,then some meaningful discussions . The USGA are giving
themselves ample time for revisions.

[mukster]

[quote name='Crab Daddy' timestamp='1354164286' post='5993615']
[quote name='KYMAR' timestamp='1354154017' post='5992819']
[quote name='Ogre41' timestamp='1354152202' post='5992669']
The whole argument that it "looks" rediculous is rediculous. Who is to judge that? Honestly, I think white belts are look weird, but that's just my opinion. I will continue to use mine because it allows me to see the line much better. Will I change, probably, but I may look into getting a putter bent way upright to see the line better. But, while using my broomstick, I will of corse wear two gloves and a massive sun hat with a pirate feather. If I am going to be judged by how my putting style (non anchored) looks, I may as well go all in.
[/quote]

And even that argument is less ridiculous than spelling ridiculous, rediculous. No one at the press conference I watched stated anywhere in their list of reasons for this rule is because of how it looks. It was about [i]the stroke [/i]and how it should be made. If they were concerned so much about appearances they would have banned IJPs wardrobe a decade ago. Loudmouth Daly's too.
[/quote]

We are on opposing sides about anchoring, but I completely agree with you about spelling and why this decision was made (or what is not the reason).
And,[b] I am all for banning John Daly's pants ... as long as he has a different pair to put on.[/b]
[/quote]

That is very disturbing

[vegas005]

why yes I have officially banned the USGA. Never a penny will be spent again with these fools.

The game needs real leadership to take keep it flourishing and this nonsense, waste of time, joke of a leadership team has lost my money. The RULES, the ball, the driver head, the 60 degree wedge all need addressing, but they focus on nonsense. Bye-Bye USGA.

[H.A. Kerr]

[quote name='topekareal' timestamp='1354162890' post='5993547']
[...I know the USGA is making a distinction here, but it surely isn't clear to me...perhaps not a fulcrum point, but how this isn't anchoring or at the very least something other than a "free swing" is a bit of a mystery to me...
[/quote]

I read thier decision to be [i]all about [/i]creating a fulcrum point. I don't think you get to just toss that aside as a side bar; it's the crux of the whole ruling, no?

[rockinar]

Tom Leman totally blasted the USGA on the ruling. He said that people like Keegan and other young players who have never known anything other than using a long putter are getting screwed and if he was them he would be furious. He thinks the USGA waited WAY too long. GO TOM!!

Even Ernie Els who called it cheating not long ago said he did not like the decision, but will roll with it.

[rockinar]

[quote name='307golf' timestamp='1354161486' post='5993455']
[quote]They said they believe the stroke should be made freely and with a connection only with the hands. Numerous times.[/quote]

Yet they allowed the putter to be anchored to a part of the body other than the hands...
[/quote]


They said anchoring with hands or forearm is a no-no. But you CAN anchor with your elbow.

[avrag]

[quote name='rockinar' timestamp='1354176690' post='5993973']
[quote name='307golf' timestamp='1354161486' post='5993455']
[quote]They said they believe the stroke should be made freely and with a connection only with the hands. Numerous times.[/quote]

Yet they allowed the putter to be anchored to a part of the body other than the hands...
[/quote]


They said anchoring with hands or forearm is a no-no. But you CAN anchor with your elbow.
[/quote]

They pretty much had to do that. Otherwise, a Hogan style full swing would suddenly have become illegal, and the only way to make a full swing would be a pivot stall with the arms swinging in front of the body and the hands flipping.
Come to think of it, is everybody convinced that Jim Furyk's full swing is still legal? Sometimes it looks like his right foreram is anchored to his right hip when he moves through the ball.

[Rustynuts]

[quote name='rockinar' timestamp='1354176403' post='5993965']
Tom Leman totally blasted the USGA on the ruling. He said that people like Keegan and other young players who have never known anything other than using a long putter are getting screwed and if he was them he would be furious. He thinks the USGA waited WAY too long. GO TOM!!

Even Ernie Els who called it cheating not long ago said he did not like the decision, but will roll with it.
[/quote]

I don't think Ernie will be that fussed simply as the rule doesn't come into effect in 2016 giving him two more seasons with it. By then his competitive best will be well and truly behind him and he can retire.

[bunter101]

Zak, Add a poll to this thread, since you/admin closed the thread with the poll attached.

Cheers

[spooky]

[quote name='topekareal' timestamp='1354155711' post='5992993']
Yep, it's all about appearance...don't have to read into it that much to figure that out...the unfair part is the how/why they're taking away something they've already said was just fine...not the type of putter they'll use going forward...
[/quote]
No, it is not all about appearance - it's about having to define what a stroke should be. To me it was always about grabbing the club with both hands and swinging it - now we have had to get a definition to stop people trying to get around the inherent difficulty - shame it was necessary. That's why many used to feel it was cheating - people were finding a way around the inherent difficulty instead of trying to overcome that difficulty by ability and practice. Not illegal according to the rules but... slightly distasteful. I'd love to see where they ever said that anchoring the club was fine - I think you are confusing the previous decision on a piece of equipment being legal according to the rules in place at the time (such pieces of equipment still being legal).

[quote name='smoky25' timestamp='1354156201' post='5993023']
It is not an unfair advantage because it is a legal method available for use by any golfer who chooses to try it. Some golfers putt well with it, others don't. Ergo, no [b]unfair[/b] advantage. Those golfers who have tried this legal method and feel it is the best method for them are being disadvantaged because they are being singled out for using a legal method that works for them and that is also available to their competitors who [b]freely[/b] choose not to use it.
[/quote]
We had that argument ages ago - now it is a moot point. Many tried to argue (and no doubt will still try) that there was actually no advantage to the technique.

[quote name='bobfoster' timestamp='1354159312' post='5993293']
(amazing how quickly this got boring).
[/quote]
Yeah bob, why did you do that? :p

[quote name='topekareal' timestamp='1354162890' post='5993547']
How on earth is the whole of the putter doing anything when a significant portion of it is fixed to the forearm?...in a clear effort to create additional stability...the whole putter is not subject to a free swing...I know the USGA is making a distinction here, but it surely isn't clear to me...perhaps not a fulcrum point, but how this isn't anchoring or at the very least something other than a "free swing" is a bit of a mystery to me...I'm sure Kuchar is quite happy...might be getting a lot of phone calls for tutorials!
[/quote]
The fact that the butt of the putter isn't kept in one place is not clear? You really cannot see the difference between an anchored stroke and Kuchar's method? Perhaps it wouldn't suit your argument to do so.

[spooky]

[quote name='Justin_Ellis' timestamp='1354160848' post='5993403']
[url="http://www.change.org/petitions/usga-stop-the-rule-change-banning-belly-and-long-putters?utm_source=guides&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=petition_created"]http://www.change.or...etition_created[/url]
[/quote]
Maybe you should start another petition for them to make the hole bigger - the game's too hard.

[Crab Daddy]

[quote name='mukster' timestamp='1354167253' post='5993751']
[quote name='Crab Daddy' timestamp='1354164286' post='5993615']
[quote name='KYMAR' timestamp='1354154017' post='5992819']
[quote name='Ogre41' timestamp='1354152202' post='5992669']
The whole argument that it "looks" rediculous is rediculous. Who is to judge that? Honestly, I think white belts are look weird, but that's just my opinion. I will continue to use mine because it allows me to see the line much better. Will I change, probably, but I may look into getting a putter bent way upright to see the line better. But, while using my broomstick, I will of corse wear two gloves and a massive sun hat with a pirate feather. If I am going to be judged by how my putting style (non anchored) looks, I may as well go all in.
[/quote]

And even that argument is less ridiculous than spelling ridiculous, rediculous. No one at the press conference I watched stated anywhere in their list of reasons for this rule is because of how it looks. It was about [i]the stroke [/i]and how it should be made. If they were concerned so much about appearances they would have banned IJPs wardrobe a decade ago. Loudmouth Daly's too.
[/quote]

We are on opposing sides about anchoring, but I completely agree with you about spelling and why this decision was made (or what is not the reason).
And,[b] I am all for banning John Daly's pants ... as long as he has a different pair to put on.[/b]
[/quote]

That is very disturbing
[/quote]

Notice that I rounded out my sentiment, because JD playing in this BVD's would [i]really[/i] be disturbing.

[Socrates]

[quote name='puttingmatt' timestamp='1354166561' post='5993727']
[quote name='topekareal' timestamp='1354164497' post='5993627']
No not really surprised, but I am a little perplexed by the inclusion of the Kuchar method...
[/quote]
There could be some form of amending this first draft of the anchoring rule. Like all
proposals, first comes shock,then some meaningful discussions . The USGA are giving
themselves ample time for revisions.
[/quote]
I think (as prev. mentioned) that the only change will be 'his' to either 'their' or 'players'. Can't believe they missed that (Dawson did say they covered all the angles).

I don't think the true impact will be felt until the first PGA player is called a cheater by a reporter, fellow player or a fan to their face. That's when they (Dawson & Davis) might have a "what have we done" moment.

[Chief Illiniwek]

Are those against the ban also in favor of legalizing the Snead stroke, or pool cue style? If everyone can do it, it would be fair. There was no statistical data showing an advantage. Why aren't these "strokes" legal?

Also, regarding the USGA hate. You don't have to play by any and all of their rules. And if you truly think that many people are pissed and ready to leave golf, start your own governing body. Perhaps all the belly users will follow and you'll have a large organization. Then YOU can dictate driver size and ball distance as well. You'll solve all of golf's problems and we'll all forget the evil USGA!

[pingman1]

[quote name='Chief Illiniwek' timestamp='1354199504' post='5994491']
Are those against the ban also in favor of legalizing the Snead stroke, or pool cue style? If everyone can do it, it would be fair. There was no statistical data showing an advantage. Why aren't these "strokes" legal?

Also, regarding the USGA hate. You don't have to play by any and all of their rules. And if you truly think that many people are pissed and ready to leave golf, start your own governing body. Perhaps all the belly users will follow and you'll have a large organization. Then YOU can dictate driver size and ball distance as well. You'll solve all of golf's problems and we'll all forget the evil USGA!
[/quote]

Why isn't the USGA working to solve golf's real problems?

[Chief Illiniwek]

[quote name='pingman1' timestamp='1354200082' post='5994529']
[quote name='Chief Illiniwek' timestamp='1354199504' post='5994491']
Are those against the ban also in favor of legalizing the Snead stroke, or pool cue style? If everyone can do it, it would be fair. There was no statistical data showing an advantage. Why aren't these "strokes" legal?

Also, regarding the USGA hate. You don't have to play by any and all of their rules. And if you truly think that many people are pissed and ready to leave golf, start your own governing body. Perhaps all the belly users will follow and you'll have a large organization. Then YOU can dictate driver size and ball distance as well. You'll solve all of golf's problems and we'll all forget the evil USGA!
[/quote]

Why isn't the USGA working to solve golf's real problems?
[/quote]

Did I make good points so you ignore my questions?

The USGA makes a lot of decisions based on money. I don't know why they haven't solved all of golf's problems, but I bet a lot of it has to do with money. It's how the world works.

[mwkbmw]

Wow. I can't believe this thread has reached 13 pages...

[Socrates]

[quote name='Chief Illiniwek' timestamp='1354200617' post='5994563']
[quote name='pingman1' timestamp='1354200082' post='5994529']
[quote name='Chief Illiniwek' timestamp='1354199504' post='5994491']
Are those against the ban also in favor of legalizing the Snead stroke, or pool cue style? If everyone can do it, it would be fair. There was no statistical data showing an advantage. Why aren't these "strokes" legal?

Also, regarding the USGA hate. You don't have to play by any and all of their rules. And if you truly think that many people are pissed and ready to leave golf, start your own governing body. Perhaps all the belly users will follow and you'll have a large organization. Then YOU can dictate driver size and ball distance as well. You'll solve all of golf's problems and we'll all forget the evil USGA!
[/quote]

Why isn't the USGA working to solve golf's real problems?
[/quote]

Did I make good points so you ignore my questions?

The USGA makes a lot of decisions based on money. I don't know why they haven't solved all of golf's problems, but I bet a lot of it has to do with money. It's how the world works.
[/quote]
Actually, back then they did the right thing and banned them as soon as they were used. Right or wrong, they did it quickly. The problem here is that they let it go and for a long time. The genie doesn't like to be put back in the bottle.

Back in time, people were more likely to respect authority and not question it. Today, not so much which is why there is so much discord. Maybe one day, there will be a new governing body and maybe this is the tipping point. Not likely though.

They claim to be studying the ball (long-term study so they say) but that will amount to nothing more than a pile of stats and paper. The real problem is old ideas and beliefs from old men who are protecting the past.

[mwkbmw]

[quote name='Dead Solid Perfect' timestamp='1354164082' post='5993597']
Only the USGA could make a rule 30-70 yrs late and act like its doing the golfing world a favor. This is stuffy old guy stuff here. The belly being the advantage it is has allowed played to shoot in the 50's for the past few years!! .... What's that no belly putter has been in the 50's and only 1 in the top 25 money list. Ok now[b] I'm getting confused[/b]
[/quote]

Not half as confused as the rest of us. "The belly being the advantage it is has allowed played..." Huh?

Am I to assume you are are saying that since players that use the anchored belly putters haven't shot scores in the 50's, then they obviously don't provide an advantage? If that is the case, then everyone who complains about the oversized drivers and the modern golf ball need to shut up.

[Dire Wolf]

Instead of freaking out, here's what you do:

1) Grab your long/belly putter
2) Sell it or cut it down
3) Learn to putt legally


(Bonus #4: Read "Who Moved My Cheese?" and stop complaining about something you're going to have to accept anyway)

[FairwaysToHeaven]

[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1354153700' post='5992793']
Adam, Keegan and Webb

They just told you that you are losers!

Anyway,

Make no mistake

More Tiger Woods hand prints on this than a Pancake House waitresess.

Way to go Tiger!

The children would have been figuring out how to putt with an iPhone app if this line was not drawn

Across this line you will not cross!

Dude
[/quote]

how's come no one is blaming luke donald, rory, graeme, ian poulter, or the countless other pros in favor of the ban. get off tigers back. he gave his opinion just like everyone else.

[KennyP]

[size=5][sub]Going to be very difficult to police in the amateur game, since you will still legally be able to use a belly or long putter provided it isn't anchored, Who's going to check whether the butt of the club isn't in fact in contact with the body on every stroke? For me they should have banned anything above a certain length. I can imagine someone will already be working on a stroke with a long putter where the elbow of the left arm is somehow anchored in the stomach.[/sub][/size]

[FairwaysToHeaven]

[quote name='KennyP' timestamp='1354203818' post='5994777']
[size=5][sub]Going to be very difficult to police in the amateur game, since you will still legally be able to use a belly or long putter provided it isn't anchored, Who's going to check whether the butt of the club isn't in fact in contact with the body on every stroke? For me they should have banned anything above a certain length. I can imagine someone will already be working on a stroke with a long putter where the elbow of the left arm is somehow anchored in the stomach.[/sub][/size]
[/quote]

its golf, no one polices amateurs. if they are going to cheat with the anchor, they are going to cheat in other aspects of the game. thats on them. we call our own penalties. the guy cheating will also probably have chapstick smeared on his driver face.

[KYMAR]

[quote name='HoosierMizuno' timestamp='1354204893' post='5994835']
[quote name='KennyP' timestamp='1354203818' post='5994777']
[size=5][sub]Going to be very difficult to police in the amateur game, since you will still legally be able to use a belly or long putter provided it isn't anchored, Who's going to check whether the butt of the club isn't in fact in contact with the body on every stroke? For me they should have banned anything above a certain length. I can imagine someone will already be working on a stroke with a long putter where the elbow of the left arm is somehow anchored in the stomach.[/sub][/size]
[/quote]

its golf, no one polices amateurs. if they are going to cheat with the anchor, they are going to cheat in other aspects of the game. thats on them. we call our own penalties. the guy cheating will also probably have chapstick smeared on his driver face.
[/quote]

Chapstick on the face of his .860 cor driver at that.Who checks the bags of their weekend foursome for legality of clubs? Tournament play in amateur events? It will be no different than watching for dbag foot wedging cheats out there now. In fact, it will be easier to police because you can see it. That's the thing about this, they did a really good job of defining whats a legal stroke and what's not. Some may not like the distinctions, but this supposed ambiguity simply doesn't exist.