What's your Smash Factor? Highest you've seen?

[Rock Chalk Jayhawk]

I got fit for a driver yesterday, and my Smash Factor (s.f.) was off the charts crazy good. With a swing speed of ~102 mph, my ball speed was ~156 mph, giving me a s.f. of 1.52 - 1.53. My fitter uses the trackman launch monitor, so I would like to believe the numbers. My spin rate was around 2300. It's possible that the monitor undervalued my s.s. by 4-6 mph.

 

Question Time:

 

1. What is your s.f.?

 

2. What is the highest s.f. you have observed?

 

(any insight that can be provided by experienced professionals and club fitters would be greatly appreciated)

[Willie Malay]

[pu_golf88]

I always heard that 1.5 was near optimal. I've only gotten as high as mid-high 1.4s.

[tigerwoods]

I was on that same machine Saturday. I hit 11 straight that we're between 1.52 and 1.53. I was shocked to see 1.5 let alone over it. Mike told me that he sees those numbers maybe once a week. I want to get on a different trackman and check because these numbers seemed messed up to me.

[edub72]

I may have gotten some bad info but heard that 1.5 was max, I don't claim to know either way, I was getting fitted and it was by a GD top 500 fitter, which by no means guarantees what he says. However his exact words were "we've about got this maxed out your smash factor is as close to 1.5 which is the max as I think we're going to get", I think it was 1.47-1.48.

[MarkFromTheUK]

1.53 at a driver fitting yesterday.

[Pitchswag]

This is weird, because as edub72 says 1.50 is the highest Smash Fact. you can get.

[MarkFromTheUK]

I think a lot of people don't actually understand what smash factor is. People view it as some mythical and unobtainable figure, where 1.5 means you have hit the perfect shot... when in reality all it is is the calculation of ball speed divided by swing speed.

[lilmike24]

[quote name='MarkFromTheUK' timestamp='1360191895' post='6376045']
I think a lot of people don't actually understand what smash factor is. People view it as some mythical and unobtainable figure, where 1.5 means you have hit the perfect shot... when in reality all it is is the calculation of ball speed divided by swing speed.
[/quote]

Fitters will tell ya 1,5 is about a perfect shot...

But according to Pga tour.com the highest pro smash fact on tour is 1.49... The only person I've seen up there average 1.5 is Notah Begay III... With that being said mighest ive seen is 1.5. I think my agerage was about 1.47 or something, but I havent spent much tume on a fitting machine, and also havent done it in a while.

[finalist]

To go above 1.5 would you need a head that exceeds legal COR?

[P.Lay]

From Trackman itself (for those of you who can't be bothered reading this, max smash is 1.494:


[b][i]What is the highest smash factor you can obtain?[/i][/b]
The laws of physics do put some limitations on what is possible. Even though you may impact the ball dead-center on the club face, so the ball departs on a line that goes directly through the Center of Gravity (CoG) of the club head, there are 3 more factors that determine the maximum obtainable smash factor:
1) coefficient of restitution between club and ball (COR),
2) the SPIN LOFT – the angle between club face orientation and club head direction (see TrackMan™ newsletter #1 and #2), and
3) the mass ratio between ball weight and club head weight.
The equation below shows the maximum obtainable smash factor assuming a dead-center hit:
For the coefficient of restitution, USGA and The R&A have limited golf clubs and balls to a maximum COR of 0.83.
While the spin loft could theoretically be 0 deg, it is impractical since this would mean something like a 0 deg lofted driver with a zero flex shaft producing 0 rpm of spin! The lowest realistic spin loft for a driver is around 8 deg.
As for the ball, the maximum allowed mass is 45.93 g, with no lower limit. However, it turns out that almost all golf balls have a mass above 45 g since the heavier weight makes the ball slow down less during flight (due to air resistance). For the club head mass, there are small variations among drivers. They typically range from 197 to 201 g, with tour pros using 202-207 g. The heaviest driver head I have heard about is 212 g.
By inserting realistic numbers in the equation above for maximizing the smash factor (COR 0.83, SPIN LOFT 8 deg, mass ratio 45/212), [b]the highest realistic smash factor is 1.494[/b].
A word of caution, before you start putting lead tape on your driver to make it heavier, that the heavier the club head the harder it is to generate club head speed. Maximum ball speed for a 45 inch driver is obtained for most people with a club head weight around 200 g. See “[i]Search for The Perfect Swing[/i]” by Cochran and Stobbs for a study on how the club head speed varies with club head weight.

[Pitchswag]

High Smash Fact. for you people. I'm avg. 310 yards with my driver with 1.44. Maybe I should work on it so I can hit 1.48-1.49.

[MarkFromTheUK]

[quote name='finalist' timestamp='1360192285' post='6376065']
To go above 1.5 would you need a head that exceeds legal COR?
[/quote]

Not necessarily, although certain club manufacturers such as Nike & Callaway are finding new and clever ways to get around the COR test... In pre-2007 drivers, the sweetspots on drivers were very thin, to create a trampoline-like effect for everyone, but these were subsequently banned. In the 2013 drivers from Nike & Callaway, the sweetspot is thicker, but then tapering off to the outer extremities of the face, meaning that there is more spring available if you are able to generate sufficient force.

However, for people with slower swing speeds they won't be able to generate the force to create the spring, but faster swinging players can make the face spring more, and the harder you you, the more it springs... hence why you can get higher SF numbers.

By the way, Bubba's smash factor is 1.55!

[k b]

1.44 if i remember correctly.

[edub72]

Yeah my 1.47 was with a 103-105 SS, I really didn't care if he was right because as he was trying to optimize my numbers my shots kept getting better.

[Rock Chalk Jayhawk]

Just wanted to state that I am not committed to believing my smash factor is accurate. It is highly likely that the swing speed was measured too low. My other stats all looked fine.

[GooseHook]

[quote name='P.Lay' timestamp='1360192574' post='6376103']
From Trackman itself (for those of you who can't be bothered reading this, [b]max USGA-allowed smash is 1.494:[/b]


[b][i]What is the highest smash factor you can obtain?[/i][/b]
The laws of physics do put some limitations on what is possible. Even though you may impact the ball dead-center on the club face, so the ball departs on a line that goes directly through the Center of Gravity (CoG) of the club head, there are 3 more factors that determine the maximum obtainable smash factor:
1) coefficient of restitution between club and ball (COR),
2) the SPIN LOFT – the angle between club face orientation and club head direction (see TrackMan™ newsletter #1 and #2), and
3) the mass ratio between ball weight and club head weight.
The equation below shows the maximum obtainable smash factor assuming a dead-center hit:
For the coefficient of restitution, USGA and The R&A have limited golf clubs and balls to a maximum COR of 0.83.
While the spin loft could theoretically be 0 deg, it is impractical since this would mean something like a 0 deg lofted driver with a zero flex shaft producing 0 rpm of spin! The lowest realistic spin loft for a driver is around 8 deg.
As for the ball, the maximum allowed mass is 45.93 g, with no lower limit. However, it turns out that almost all golf balls have a mass above 45 g since the heavier weight makes the ball slow down less during flight (due to air resistance). For the club head mass, there are small variations among drivers. They typically range from 197 to 201 g, with tour pros using 202-207 g. The heaviest driver head I have heard about is 212 g.
By inserting realistic numbers in the equation above for maximizing the smash factor (COR 0.83, SPIN LOFT 8 deg, mass ratio 45/212), [b]the highest realistic smash factor is 1.494[/b].
A word of caution, before you start putting lead tape on your driver to make it heavier, that the heavier the club head the harder it is to generate club head speed. Maximum ball speed for a 45 inch driver is obtained for most people with a club head weight around 200 g. See “[i]Search for The Perfect Swing[/i]” by Cochran and Stobbs for a study on how the club head speed varies with club head weight.
[/quote]

Bolded for clarification. Some drivers are out there that have a higher COR, just for the fun of it.

[GooseHook]

[quote name='Rock Chalk Jayhawk' timestamp='1360259841' post='6381771']
Just wanted to state that I am not committed to believing my smash factor is accurate. It is highly likely that the swing speed was measured too low. My other stats all looked fine.
[/quote]

That could be the case. I guess it depends on the monitor, but I'd be more inclined to trust ballspeed than club speed.

[nbg352]

1.50 is the legal limit for smash.
Hits out toward the toe, usually a draw, will sometimes fool Flightscope into readings of more than 1.50. The highest smash I have ever seen on a properly calibrated L/M is 1.56
Normally, I see readings between 1.30 and 1.45

[ProjectX]

I was sitting at 1.48 in my last session with an average swing speed was 116 MPH. On my best swing I jumped up to 118.9 MPH where my Smash Factor hit 1.51... 179.54 MPH ball speed.

Driver was a Tour Issue 10.5* R9 Superdeep with a Nunchuk cut to 44.5".

[Stretch]

Couple of reasons you can see > 1.50 smash factor readings on a good launch monitor.

-- Normal production tolerances on the clubs mean there are always going to be some "slightly hot heads".

-- Normal accuracy limitations of the monitor mean you are always going to get some outlier readings. TrackMan's stated absolute accuracy is plus or minus 1.5 mph within a 95% confidence interval for club and ball speed. So let's say it misreads just a little low on the club and just a little high on the ball on the same shot, suddenly you're at 1.52.

-- Toe side of the club face is traveling faster than the center of gravity of the club head, which is what TrackMan is, um, tracking -- because the face is also closing through impact . If you hit it just slightly towards the toe (like 1/8 inch), the ball speed gain from that point of contact will outweigh the ball speed loss from the COR diminishing as you leave the center of the face. This will produce a legit power transfer of over 1.5.

What's important is the consistency of your readings, not the absolute values. I hit 12 shots on a FlightScope X2 today working on something and the lowest reading was 1.48 and the highest was 1.51. Average was 1.49. I can look at that and know I don't have contact issues or a dud driver. Other issues, brother I got plenty.

[stumblinhorse]

I have seen higher Smashes then 1.5, not by me, but have seen them. I always chaulked it up to the club design versus the swing of golfer. I believe I will never hit a transfer of more 145%. I have a negative AoA. But in the real world people swing different. So give a Bubba, with around a 10* positive AoA, and give a Tiger, with a 4* negative AoA, the same club head shaft combo. They will have different transfer Percentages (Smash). So if the tiger player hit 1.45 and the bubba player hits 1.55 is that club "illegal"? Because I could switch the specs on the combination and then the tiger player is 1.5 and the bubba player is 1.4...

[KILLEDBYASHANKEDWEDGE]

I had a 1.8 smash factor once, but had a good Lawyer and beat the rap.

[trumb1mj1]

I'd be curious to see what the smash factor is for a grooved swing on some of these super hot faced fairway woods coming out. I see some crazy ball speeds with my RBZ 17*...

[cardoustie]

When I was fit into my 910 with a fubuki 73x I had something like ten 1.50's come up in a row during a Titleist fitting with Trackman. The guy told me he never sees pros do that. I was swinging it well that day, 108-110

[TourSpoon]

My Razr Fit TA averaged 1.46 over 20 swings. Not too shabby.

[govols]

[quote name='cardoustie' timestamp='1360275292' post='6383757']
When I was fit into my 910 with a fubuki 73x I had something like ten 1.50's come up in a row during a Titleist fitting with Trackman. The guy told me he never sees pros do that. I was swinging it well that day, 108-110
[/quote]

Bet he made a sell

[sblack5]

I've been at 1.53 on 3 different trackmans.......I believe it is because of my ball speed though and from what I understand, trackman calculates club head speed from the ball speed it Dopplers. 184 mph avg ball speed.......I don't really care what my club head speed is....if I'm looking at new gear I want ballspeed. the trackmans each had me at like 120.1x and on occasion my smash would be 1.48 with a chs of 123.xx

[reg1900]

Was getting 1.48-1.50 with my Rapture V2 and that was at a Callaway fitting centre so if they were going to mess with the numbers it wouldve been with this club than the Callaway drivers i was hitting. I haven't had a go with my Anser yet.

[FairwaySheriff]

[size=4]Knowing what it is does what?[/size]