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For those that have applied the GG pivot

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  • RichieHuntRichieHunt Members Posts: 3,743 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Zitlow wrote:


    Matt Wolff at OSU makes it work but GG's move takes a ton of practice and repetition to master. Johnny Ruiz is super talented and he's struggled on the Web.com tour last year.




    There's not a swing coach out there that it does not take a ton of practice to master.



    Ruiz just made it to the Web.com Tour. The majority of players on Tour struggled on the Web.com Tour their first year.



    Even somebody like Bryson DeChambeau...was the worst Red Zone player (175-225 yards) on Tour his rookie season. But, he adjusted and got better and now is the 5th ranked player in the world.



    And when you're at that level, there's a lot to be said for 'talent.' Some guys just have boatloads of talent and hand-eye coordination and that ability to repeat their swing to make it work. I think Pat Perez is a great example of that. He won the Western Amateur despite playing very little golf and using his friend's father's old Ping Eye 2's. He got into a car accident and that greatly hampered his range of motion and I wouldn't say he has the best swing out there from a mechanics standpoint. But, he has incredible coordination and makes it work.



    I am more interested in the improvement of a golfer. Johnny didn't get any big offers from schools, he made it to the Mackenzie Tour where he got crushed and then found GG, won and qualified for the Web.com Tour in under 2 years.



    I think it's a tremendous accomplishment.



    But, one could also show that from a statistical standpoint, Adam Scott's ballstriking improved statistically under GG (his putting went to ****). Sung Kang is on the Tour and was not on the Tour before going to GG.



    I think GG is a good example of why the best coaches are the best coaches. He's given countless lessons to all sorts of people and is smart enough and self aware enough that he knows how to make golfers better. In the end, golf instruction is a people business. You can recite every peer reviewed doctoral research paper by heart, have $100K+ in 3D motion capture, force plates and launch monitors in your fanciest studio and read 3D wrist graphs until your corneas start to bleed...but an instructor is only as good as they are at working with people and how self aware they are when their students fail.













    RH
  • Krt22Krt22 East BayMembers Posts: 7,496 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Did Ruiz get back status on the web.com tour?
  • QManyQMany #TheWRX ClubWRX Posts: 9,127 ClubWRX
    I followed Johnny around the Web.com event at my home course last summer. He missed the cut, no fault to his ball striking, just really poor short game, course management, and decision-making.
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  • jurr80jurr80 Working daily towards scratch Members Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    QMany wrote:


    I followed Johnny around the Web.com event at my home course last summer. He missed the cut, no fault to his ball striking, just really poor short game, course management, and decision-making.


    Yeah, it was the same at the RBC. George caddied for him and kept him cool. He was doing well, but hit a flyer lie and flew the green and into the street behind the hole.



    After that, he blew up.

    His swing is really good, but he is still working on managing his game and his confidence.



    As far as his philosophy goes, I’ve met with my PT (who’s also a TPI guy) and went over that pivot.

    His synopsis was that it is safe, but you shouldn’t be a complete couch potato to attempt it.
  • lopey986lopey986 ClubWRX Posts: 2,326 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Matt Wolff got a sponsorship exemption for the Waste Management Open, i'll be out there for Fridays round, really looking forward to watching him work in person. Maybe i'll run into GG as well.
  • Buckets2Buckets2 Members Posts: 2,465 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Go_Time wrote:


    How do you guys using this method approach shorter shots? At what range do you start using this move? 50 yard pitch....what do you do?




    bump for this
  • thebogeyputtthebogeyputt NYCMembers Posts: 68 ✭✭
    This is a very interesting thread. Curious what I'm doing wrong if I do start to shallow the shaft in transition, with center-of-mass trailing behind me, but right between p5 and p6, my shaft seems to steepen a bit. My misses in the range yesterday were dead pulls, or huge slices. Good shots were a very powerful 1 yard fade or a straight ball.



    So far, my set up is in-line with what he describes, backswing allows the trail elbow to flare out (which gives room for it to externally rotate in transition, as long as I don't pull the handle down), and hips/shoulders relatively deep at the top.



    I'll say this so far tho - my back is never sore after range sessions...I used to restrict hip turn and yank the handle down.
  • Buckets2Buckets2 Members Posts: 2,465 ✭✭✭✭✭✭


    This is a very interesting thread. Curious what I'm doing wrong if I do start to shallow the shaft in transition, with center-of-mass trailing behind me, but right between p5 and p6, my shaft seems to steepen a bit. My misses in the range yesterday were dead pulls, or huge slices. Good shots were a very powerful 1 yard fade or a straight ball.



    So far, my set up is in-line with what he describes, backswing allows the trail elbow to flare out (which gives room for it to externally rotate in transition, as long as I don't pull the handle down), and hips/shoulders relatively deep at the top.



    I'll say this so far tho - my back is never sore after range sessions...I used to restrict hip turn and yank the handle down.




    It sounds like when you get steep and pull/slice it's because you aren't rotating through enough and getting steep/arm'y is the only way you can get the club head to the ball when that happens.
  • MPStratMPStrat Members Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭✭✭✭


    This is a very interesting thread. Curious what I'm doing wrong if I do start to shallow the shaft in transition, with center-of-mass trailing behind me, but right between p5 and p6, my shaft seems to steepen a bit. My misses in the range yesterday were dead pulls, or huge slices. Good shots were a very powerful 1 yard fade or a straight ball.




    This is very common. 2 things to look for. First is clubface. If it gets too open coming down you may be using the path to square it, which would result in being steep and across at the bottom. Second, rotation brings the path more to the left, so you really have to learn how to rotate without cutting across it. Drills like this help:
  • thebogeyputtthebogeyputt NYCMembers Posts: 68 ✭✭
    edited Jan 28, 2019 12:17pm #2171
    <iframe%20width=
    MPStrat wrote:



    This is a very interesting thread. Curious what I'm doing wrong if I do start to shallow the shaft in transition, with center-of-mass trailing behind me, but right between p5 and p6, my shaft seems to steepen a bit. My misses in the range yesterday were dead pulls, or huge slices. Good shots were a very powerful 1 yard fade or a straight ball.




    This is very common. 2 things to look for. First is clubface. If it gets too open coming down you may be using the path to square it, which would result in being steep and across at the bottom. Second, rotation brings the path more to the left, so you really have to learn how to rotate without cutting across it. Drills like this help: https://www.instagra.../p/Br8aV-7FwV2/




    https://youtu.be/e5H5Moh3hTs



    MPStrat - I'm catching on to what you are referring. posting a video of my swing DTL. Are you seeing the 2 things you wrote about just now?
  • MPStratMPStrat Members Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭✭✭✭


    <iframe%20width=
    MPStrat wrote:



    This is a very interesting thread. Curious what I'm doing wrong if I do start to shallow the shaft in transition, with center-of-mass trailing behind me, but right between p5 and p6, my shaft seems to steepen a bit. My misses in the range yesterday were dead pulls, or huge slices. Good shots were a very powerful 1 yard fade or a straight ball.




    This is very common. 2 things to look for. First is clubface. If it gets too open coming down you may be using the path to square it, which would result in being steep and across at the bottom. Second, rotation brings the path more to the left, so you really have to learn how to rotate without cutting across it. Drills like this help: [url=&quot;





    [url=&quot;



    MPStrat - I'm catching on to what you are referring. posting a video of my swing DTL. Are you seeing the 2 things you wrote about just now?




    Good swing. You need a bit of #2 IMO
  • J13J13 Dad golf Members Posts: 15,627 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Also need to start with your backside more underneath you as you have a little EE going on which is forcing you to come up and out of the shot.
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  • thebogeyputtthebogeyputt NYCMembers Posts: 68 ✭✭
    J13 wrote:


    Also need to start with your backside more underneath you as you have a little EE going on which is forcing you to come up and out of the shot.




    i.e., what gankas describes as the pingman set up?
  • J13J13 Dad golf Members Posts: 15,627 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Jan 28, 2019 8:31pm #2175

    J13 wrote:


    Also need to start with your backside more underneath you as you have a little EE going on which is forcing you to come up and out of the shot.




    i.e., what gankas describes as the pingman set up?




    pretty much yes. Keeping your backside underneath of you into the backswing will then make you move back in the downswing instead of the other way around which is early extension.



    https://youtu.be/nhshvZNPi_Y
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  • Buckets2Buckets2 Members Posts: 2,465 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    J13 wrote:


    J13 wrote:


    Also need to start with your backside more underneath you as you have a little EE going on which is forcing you to come up and out of the shot.




    i.e., what gankas describes as the pingman set up?




    pretty much yes. Keeping your backside underneath of you into the backswing will then make you move back in the downswing instead of the other way around which is early extension.



    http://youtu.be/nhshvZNPi_Y




    Clear your inbox homie!
  • J13J13 Dad golf Members Posts: 15,627 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    cleared out now
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  • BottleCapBottleCap Members Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    RichieHunt wrote:

    Zitlow wrote:


    Matt Wolff at OSU makes it work but GG's move takes a ton of practice and repetition to master. Johnny Ruiz is super talented and he's struggled on the Web.com tour last year.




    There's not a swing coach out there that it does not take a ton of practice to master.



    Ruiz just made it to the Web.com Tour. The majority of players on Tour struggled on the Web.com Tour their first year.



    Even somebody like Bryson DeChambeau...was the worst Red Zone player (175-225 yards) on Tour his rookie season. But, he adjusted and got better and now is the 5th ranked player in the world.



    And when you're at that level, there's a lot to be said for 'talent.' Some guys just have boatloads of talent and hand-eye coordination and that ability to repeat their swing to make it work. I think Pat Perez is a great example of that. He won the Western Amateur despite playing very little golf and using his friend's father's old Ping Eye 2's. He got into a car accident and that greatly hampered his range of motion and I wouldn't say he has the best swing out there from a mechanics standpoint. But, he has incredible coordination and makes it work.



    I am more interested in the improvement of a golfer. Johnny didn't get any big offers from schools, he made it to the Mackenzie Tour where he got crushed and then found GG, won and qualified for the Web.com Tour in under 2 years.



    I think it's a tremendous accomplishment.



    But, one could also show that from a statistical standpoint, Adam Scott's ballstriking improved statistically under GG (his putting went to ****). Sung Kang is on the Tour and was not on the Tour before going to GG.



    I think GG is a good example of why the best coaches are the best coaches. He's given countless lessons to all sorts of people and is smart enough and self aware enough that he knows how to make golfers better. In the end, golf instruction is a people business. You can recite every peer reviewed doctoral research paper by heart, have $100K+ in 3D motion capture, force plates and launch monitors in your fanciest studio and read 3D wrist graphs until your corneas start to bleed...but an instructor is only as good as they are at working with people and how self aware they are when their students fail.













    RH




    Adam Scott dumped him, his swing looked like a flail during the short time he worked with Gankas. Scott has only improved since, but when you hit rock bottom you can only go up.
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  • RichieHuntRichieHunt Members Posts: 3,743 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    BottleCap wrote:






    Adam Scott dumped him, his swing looked like a flail during the short time he worked with Gankas. Scott has only improved since, but when you hit rock bottom you can only go up.




    Adam's ballstriking metrics improved under GG from the previous year. His putting fell off the face of the earth (down to 195th in SG - Putting) when working with GG.



    Scott's play improved after GG because his putting improved tremendously.













    RH
  • Redjeep83Redjeep83 Members Posts: 5,420 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Wasn’t Matt wolf who kinda inspired gankas to teach that swing, across the line at top etc. He was swinging that way before gankas and other instructors tried to change it. Ruiz wanted to swing like wolf and was a complete rebuild by George. Remember watching an interview where he mentioned all this
  • lopey986lopey986 ClubWRX Posts: 2,326 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Jan 29, 2019 8:40am #2181
    Redjeep83 wrote:


    Wasn't Matt wolf who kinda inspired gankas to teach that swing, across the line at top etc. He was swinging that way before gankas and other instructors tried to change it. Ruiz wanted to swing like wolf and was a complete rebuild by George. Remember watching an interview where he mentioned all this




    GG doesn't really preach any one way to swing, this is pretty evident by his IG. He watches you swing and then tries to build something around what you naturally do, as any good coach should do.



    Also GG is on the bag for Wolff this weekend, that'll be cool to see.
  • RichieHuntRichieHunt Members Posts: 3,743 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    As far as the backswing goes, GG has a lot of options. As lopey986 pointed out, his IG account shows a lot of different backswings. Some will be across the line (although Ruiz isn’t really ATL at the top) and some will be more ‘on plane.’ Most will have a fairly centered pivot, some will move off the ball more and use more upper thoracic spine extension to ‘center’ themselves and some will move off the ball with little UTS extension.



    Jared Ledbetter is probably more of a copy of Matthew Wolff’s swing than Johnny Ruiz. For myself, my backswing varies a bit from time-to-time. I will get Across the Line at times and other times I will look perfectly on plane. That’s because my tendency is to get laid off at the top and a lot of issues happen from there. So I tend to favor going across the line because it’s better for me to err that way than to get laid off at the top.



    Essentially, GG wants internal rotation of the right shoulder at the top of the swing so you can use the stretch shorten cycle which will allow you to rotate the rear shoulder externally in the downswing. You can have your forearms rotated at the top different ways to provide a across the line look or an ‘on plane’ look.



    The downswing is more similar from player to player as far as the pivot action and where he wants to see the club move.









    RH
  • Redjeep83Redjeep83 Members Posts: 5,420 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    lopey986 wrote:

    Redjeep83 wrote:


    Wasn't Matt wolf who kinda inspired gankas to teach that swing, across the line at top etc. He was swinging that way before gankas and other instructors tried to change it. Ruiz wanted to swing like wolf and was a complete rebuild by George. Remember watching an interview where he mentioned all this




    GG doesn't really preach any one way to swing, this is pretty evident by his IG. He watches you swing and then tries to build something around what you naturally do, as any good coach should do.



    Also GG is on the bag for Wolff this weekend, that'll be cool to see.




    Of course, plenty of backswings you see on his instagram. I'm specifically talking about the crossed up one that he teaches frequently. After watching that interview with him it seemed it became much more popular for him to teach or originated with Matt Wolf.
  • NikeGolferTXNikeGolferTX Members Posts: 344 ✭✭✭✭
    edited Jan 29, 2019 12:32pm #2184
    I believe the hardest part of figuring out this swing is what to do once you get to P-6 (shaft parallel):



    After This position:



    oFK7HKE.jpg



    What happens next?



    You push your left butt cheek back and upwards towards the tush line while allowing your upper body to have front and right bend towards the direction of where your right foot is ducked out.



    Looks like this:

    He4t507.png



    As far as what it feels like: you get the sense that your left side is out of the way and the right side of the pelvis is tilted lower than the left all with a ton of right bend.





    The more narrow players (Dustin Johnson for example) will need much more right bend through impact. Wider players like Sergio don't have to apply as much right bend and can have more of a level pivot.



    Personally I'm somewhere in between and still require a lot of right bend:



    Check out my swing:

    http://www.instagram.../p/BtJD4eXFpYb/
  • thebogeyputtthebogeyputt NYCMembers Posts: 68 ✭✭


    I believe the hardest part of figuring out this swing is what to do once you get to P-6 (shaft parallel):



    After This position:



    oFK7HKE.jpg



    What happens next?



    You push your left butt cheek back and upwards towards the tush line while allowing your upper body to have front and right bend towards the direction of where your right foot is ducked out.



    Looks like this:

    He4t507.png



    As far as what it feels like: you get the sense that your left side is out of the way and the right side of the pelvis is tilted lower than the left all with a ton of right bend.





    The more narrow players (Dustin Johnson for example) will need much more right bend through impact. Wider players like Sergio don't have to apply as much right bend and can have more of a level pivot.



    Personally I'm somewhere in between and still require a lot of right bend:



    Check out my swing:

    http://www.instagram.../p/BtJD4eXFpYb/




    Great swing...love how the shaft is parallel to your line at address in transition. What's your ball flight generally? What's your miss?



    I'm working on the same thing (you can prob see from my previous post where I posted a video), and I think your comment on the right bend is spot on. I can't get my shaft to continue to shallow out up until p6 because i'm not adding right lateral bend. thoughts?
  • NikeGolferTXNikeGolferTX Members Posts: 344 ✭✭✭✭
    edited Jan 29, 2019 8:29pm #2186



    I believe the hardest part of figuring out this swing is what to do once you get to P-6 (shaft parallel):



    After This position:



    oFK7HKE.jpg



    What happens next?



    You push your left butt cheek back and upwards towards the tush line while allowing your upper body to have front and right bend towards the direction of where your right foot is ducked out.



    Looks like this:

    He4t507.png



    As far as what it feels like: you get the sense that your left side is out of the way and the right side of the pelvis is tilted lower than the left all with a ton of right bend.





    The more narrow players (Dustin Johnson for example) will need much more right bend through impact. Wider players like Sergio don't have to apply as much right bend and can have more of a level pivot.



    Personally I'm somewhere in between and still require a lot of right bend:



    Check out my swing:

    [url=&quot;





    Great swing...love how the shaft is parallel to your line at address in transition. What's your ball flight generally? What's your miss?



    I'm working on the same thing (you can prob see from my previous post where I posted a video), and I think your comment on the right bend is spot on. I can't get my shaft to continue to shallow out up until p6 because i'm not adding right lateral bend. thoughts?
    I have a tendency to get too shallowed out and way under plane which of course leads to a pull hook, but it rarely happens.



    My normal ball flight starts out low and rises to a medium trajectory with a small draw. It’s low If I keep my left leg bent through impact and try to refrain from extending anything.



    The shallowing move IMO is a combination of the left leg externally rotating while the right arm/shoulder externally rotates. Simultaneously I keep the upper body back and add in front and right bend to keep my shoulders level with the ground. After all that I add in the move I described above.
  • Seamus_McDuffSeamus_McDuff ChicagoMembers Posts: 927 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Golfbeat wrote:


    I am sure many of you will remember The Move from Sevam1. When working on the "keeping the right leg external" I suddenly had to think about his "move" where he "screwed" his trail leg/foot clock wise into the ground. I think that this feeling, thought might help a lot by keeping the right knee external for just that little bit longer. It does for me.



    Don't watch the video because the cameraman will drive you nuts. image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />








    While reading this thread for the first time over the last couple days, kept waiting for someone to bring this up. Really surprised it took 60 pages!



    Goes well with the frisbee drill.



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  • GolfbeatGolfbeat Swing Lessee Members Posts: 1,695 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    RichieHunt wrote:


    As far as the backswing goes, GG has a lot of options. As lopey986 pointed out, his IG account shows a lot of different backswings. Some will be across the line (although Ruiz isn’t really ATL at the top) and some will be more ‘on plane.’ Most will have a fairly centered pivot, some will move off the ball more and use more upper thoracic spine extension to ‘center’ themselves and some will move off the ball with little UTS extension.



    Jared Ledbetter is probably more of a copy of Matthew Wolff’s swing than Johnny Ruiz. For myself, my backswing varies a bit from time-to-time. I will get Across the Line at times and other times I will look perfectly on plane. That’s because my tendency is to get laid off at the top and a lot of issues happen from there. So I tend to favor going across the line because it’s better for me to err that way than to get laid off at the top.



    Essentially, GG wants internal rotation of the right shoulder at the top of the swing so you can use the stretch shorten cycle which will allow you to rotate the rear shoulder externally in the downswing. You can have your forearms rotated at the top different ways to provide a across the line look or an ‘on plane’ look.



    The downswing is more similar from player to player as far as the pivot action and where he wants to see the club move.









    RH




    I find this trail shoulder internal to external really interesting. Many instructors seem to tell people that you need to go external into the back swing. Does that not make it more difficult to go (even more?) external in the down swing? Does not seem a natural move or creating a sling effect. Internal to external does.
  • Redjeep83Redjeep83 Members Posts: 5,420 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    I tried the crossed up backswing last year after seeing it so much on his instagram and the success of Wolff. Really just wanted to see what it felt like to swing like Wolff somewhat.I found it made me really shallow on downswing, almost too much for myself but I could see how you could play really well with it. Was more accurate with my normal swing so never really stuck with it
  • falllinefallline Banned Posts: 23 ✭✭
    gatorMD wrote:


    https://www.golfchan...ags=golf2408000



    Gankas on the bag and Wolff shooting 67!




    Whoa! Never heard of Wolff until your post, don't know much about Gankas either, but a great managed leveraged process with crunch, thanks for posting.

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