2019 OB & Lost Ball Rule

As far as I remember, the new OB and lost ball option has to be implemented as a local rule. The old rules will still apply to ‘elite events’.

Is this still the case? More importantly is there a definition of ‘elite event’? Will all clubs be mandated to have the local rule in play for normal competitions and social golf? Are any clubs planning on not implementing the local rule?
«13456718

Comments

  • BIG STUBIG STU Members Posts: 11,386 ✭✭
    Around here I am sure most of them will because they do anyhow. To speed up play in tourist golf season a lot of OBs (no joke) are marked as a lateral and drop areas are placed over the hazard. This is to hopefully speed up play which your typical Joe Tourist golfer does not go by the letter of the rule book anyhow. League play I do not have any idea since I do not do league play. But around here most courses have a history of being lenient and frugal on implementation of "Local Rules".

    Personally I do not care how they do it as long as it suits the people that are playing. I know back when I played the Mini Tours here we had a seperate rules sheet and at the player's meeting it was always stressed especially to the guys that played a respective course to pay real close attention to the tournament rules sheet. Also if you play some courses a lot the few days before the World Am Handicap you will see some different markings from what you are used to in normal play
  • Colin LColin L Members Posts: 2,007 ✭✭


    As far as I remember, the new OB and lost ball option has to be implemented as a local rule. The old rules will still apply to 'elite events'.

    Is this still the case? More importantly is there a definition of 'elite event'? Will all clubs be mandated to have the local rule in play for normal competitions and social golf? Are any clubs planning on not implementing the local rule?




    Your memory is correct. We'll shortly have the final details of the possible Local Rule in the Committee Prodecures section of the Official Guide to the Rules of Golf which will be published online on 10 September and as hard copy on 1st November. You can pre-order from Amazon for delivery on the 1st if you care to part with £20.



    As I understand it, the Local Rule is open to be used in any club competition and social golf as the club decides. My own club is looking to implement it but we're waiting to hear what CONGU has to say as I have heard of a possibiity that it will not allow it in a qualifying competition.



    There are other questions around waiting to be answered - I hope in the Guide - such as can it be in force on certain holes and not on others, and what do you do if there is no fairway on a particular hole or if your ball was lost short of the fairway.
  • SawgrassSawgrass Members Posts: 15,015 ✭✭


    As far as I remember, the new OB and lost ball option has to be implemented as a local rule. The old rules will still apply to 'elite events'.

    Is this still the case? More importantly is there a definition of 'elite event'? Will all clubs be mandated to have the local rule in play for normal competitions and social golf? Are any clubs planning on not implementing the local rule?
    Local Rules may (or may not) be enacted by either the Course Committee or, if a competition is being held, the Course Committee's decision can be upheld or overridden by the Competition Committee.



    I can't imagine anything different in this regard for 2019. So, while either Committee may not apply this new LR to elite events, they certainly will have the option to ignore it for all play.
  • Deceptively ShortDeceptively Short Members Posts: 397 ✭✭
    Have anyone’s Clubs given a view as to whether they will be implementing the LR? 2019 is getting close and it would be good to get a view so as to know what to recommend at my Club,
  • dcmidnightdcmidnight Marshals, BST Volunteer Mods Posts: 11,822 mod


    Have anyone’s Clubs given a view as to whether they will be implementing the LR? 2019 is getting close and it would be good to get a view so as to know what to recommend at my Club,




    I was initially told that we would definitely be implementing it but then had a couple of senior members - as in old, not long time - tell me that "not if they had anything to do with it". Now they arent in a position to actually do anything other then throw a fuss but it seems clear theres a small minority of members that find this distatsteful. IE they like walking uphill both ways barefoot in the snow to get to the club and they dont want to change.



    The other 99% though are absolutely in favor of it. Even though truthfully, pace of play is almost never an issue at our club.
    M3 12* - AD-DI6x Black
    M4 3W - AD-DI6s Black
    Epic 3h - GD Tour ADs / Epic 3i - Steelfiber 95 s
    M3 5h - Atmos Red s
    TM M5 6-AW Steelfiber 95 s
    TM Milled Grind 54* / Hi Toe 60*
    Toulon Indy 35" / TM TP5
  • sui generissui generis Members Posts: 3,887 ✭✭


    Have anyone’s Clubs given a view as to whether they will be implementing the LR? 2019 is getting close and it would be good to get a view so as to know what to recommend at my Club,




    No one I know has seen the wording for the proposed Rule.
    Knowledge of the Rules is part of the applied skill set which a player must use to play a round of competitive golf.
  • wadesworldwadesworld Members Posts: 667 ✭✭
    I've talked to a couple courses around here and they plan on implementing it for all club competitions.



    Where it won't be in effect is for state golf association tournaments or traveling tournaments (such as an AJGA event).
  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers Posts: 23,326 ✭✭
    edited Sep 5, 2018 #9



    Have anyone’s Clubs given a view as to whether they will be implementing the LR? 2019 is getting close and it would be good to get a view so as to know what to recommend at my Club,




    No one I know has seen the wording for the proposed Rule.




    I presume you mean a finalized version?



    For those that were not aware, the draft version is here:
  • sui generissui generis Members Posts: 3,887 ✭✭
    Stuart G. wrote:




    Have anyone’s Clubs given a view as to whether they will be implementing the LR? 2019 is getting close and it would be good to get a view so as to know what to recommend at my Club,




    No one I know has seen the wording for the proposed Rule.




    I presume you mean a finalized version?



    For those that were not aware, the draft version is here:




    Sorry, I meant Local Rule.
    Knowledge of the Rules is part of the applied skill set which a player must use to play a round of competitive golf.
  • SawgrassSawgrass Members Posts: 15,015 ✭✭

    Stuart G. wrote:




    Have anyone’s Clubs given a view as to whether they will be implementing the LR? 2019 is getting close and it would be good to get a view so as to know what to recommend at my Club,




    No one I know has seen the wording for the proposed Rule.




    I presume you mean a finalized version?



    For those that were not aware, the draft version is here:




    Sorry, I meant Local Rule.
    I suspect confusion is at play here. Stuart did link to the proposed Local Rule's wording, right?
  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers Posts: 23,326 ✭✭
    Sawgrass wrote:


    Stuart G. wrote:




    Have anyone’s Clubs given a view as to whether they will be implementing the LR? 2019 is getting close and it would be good to get a view so as to know what to recommend at my Club,




    No one I know has seen the wording for the proposed Rule.




    I presume you mean a finalized version?



    For those that were not aware, the draft version is here:




    Sorry, I meant Local Rule.
    I suspect confusion is at play here. Stuart did link to the proposed Local Rule's wording, right?




    Correct and correct :-)
  • sui generissui generis Members Posts: 3,887 ✭✭
    Thanks, Stuart. Obviously, I hadn't seen it. Where is it to be found? Are there models for other 2019 Local Rules?
    Knowledge of the Rules is part of the applied skill set which a player must use to play a round of competitive golf.
  • SawgrassSawgrass Members Posts: 15,015 ✭✭


    Thanks, Stuart. Obviously, I hadn't seen it. Where is it to be found? Are there models for other 2019 Local Rules?
    Here's the USGA link:



    http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules-hub/rules-modernization/major-changes/golfs-new-rules-stroke-and-distance.html



    As far as I know, it is only this new Local Rule which has a specific text associated with it.
  • LeoLeo99LeoLeo99 Members Posts: 4,076 ✭✭
    edited Sep 5, 2018 #15
    It's a very confusing rule. Just treating it like a lateral hazard is a lot simpler and matches what many today and will probably continue to do even with the new rule.



    Does whether a club adopts this local affect their course rating?
  • AugsterAugster Members Posts: 4,246 ✭✭
    LeoLeo99 wrote:


    It's a very confusing rule. Just treating it like a lateral hazard is a lot simpler and matches what many today and will probably continue to do even with the new rule.



    Does whether a club adopts this local affect their course rating?




    Probably not. The new rule just takes the place of going back to the tee and rehitting. Most people that take this rule will end up at or over their ESC on the hole. Net double bogey in 2020.



    The only reason for a course rating at all is for handicap purposes. While the slope may take into consideration hole layouts that may create more OB balls, I doubt they add in for someone hitting 2 balls OB.
  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers Posts: 23,326 ✭✭
    LeoLeo99 wrote:


    It's a very confusing rule. Just treating it like a lateral hazard is a lot simpler and matches what many today and will probably continue to do even with the new rule.




    What's confusing about it?



    The whole point is that hazards (penalty areas) have defined boundaries that can be used as a reference point for any drop. The rule simply provides a way to establish a consistent and uniform way to determine where to drop in the absence of such boundaries.
  • Deceptively ShortDeceptively Short Members Posts: 397 ✭✭
    It looks straightforward to me, all that I am confused about is whether this will be in force at any, some, most or all clubs and if any, some, most or all amateur events.
  • Colin LColin L Members Posts: 2,007 ✭✭
    I suppose it has the potential for confusion, but not if you check, as a matter of routine, the LRs for the course you are playing.
  • HaleboppHalebopp Members Posts: 2,813 ✭✭
    It looks straightforward to me, all that I am confused about is whether this will be in force at any, some, most or all clubs and if any, some, most or all amateur events.


    Members of our national golf union's rules committee have made it quite clear (unofficially) that they hope none of the clubs in Finland would adopt the local rule.



    I've had a brief chat about the issue with our club pro and we both think it shouldn't be put into use nor should we introduce any new penalty areas onto our courses.



    We'll have to wait and see what the membership and the people running the business side of our club think, there's a very good chance their opinions weight more than ours. Luckily, and unfortunately, we have until mid-April to get things sorted out.
    Swing DNA: 91/4/3/6/6
    ST180, 8.5º / 917 F2, 16.5º / MP-H5, 21º / MP-4, 4-PW / MP-T5 50.07 / FG Tour PMP: 55.12, 59.10 / Mizuno Bettinardi BC-4
    WITB Link
  • sui generissui generis Members Posts: 3,887 ✭✭
    Halebopp wrote:

    It looks straightforward to me, all that I am confused about is whether this will be in force at any, some, most or all clubs and if any, some, most or all amateur events.


    Members of our national golf union's rules committee have made it quite clear (unofficially) that they hope none of the clubs in Finland would adopt the local rule.



    I've had a brief chat about the issue with our club pro and we both think it shouldn't be put into use nor should we introduce any new penalty areas onto our courses.



    We'll have to wait and see what the membership and the people running the business side of our club think, there's a very good chance their opinions weight more than ours. Luckily, and unfortunately, we have until mid-April to get things sorted out.




    I think we'll repaint our yellow stakes red but will certainly need a LR for opposite edge relief for about two hundred yards of a small creek on one hole. Other than that no new red stakes and no LR for LB/OB.
    Knowledge of the Rules is part of the applied skill set which a player must use to play a round of competitive golf.
  • Deceptively ShortDeceptively Short Members Posts: 397 ✭✭
    So based on the replies above most clubs won’t be introducing the LR?
  • klebs01klebs01 Members Posts: 391 ✭✭


    So based on the replies above most clubs won’t be introducing the LR?




    I would expect most committees to implement the LR. This forum represents the outliers and is not a representative sample.
  • HaleboppHalebopp Members Posts: 2,813 ✭✭
    klebs01 wrote:



    So based on the replies above most clubs won't be introducing the LR?




    I would expect most committees to implement the LR. This forum represents the outliers and is not a representative sample.




    Yep, based on some Facebook groups etc. it seems like most of the casual golfers (or, in other words, those who aren't Rules Officials) would welcome the local rule.
    Swing DNA: 91/4/3/6/6
    ST180, 8.5º / 917 F2, 16.5º / MP-H5, 21º / MP-4, 4-PW / MP-T5 50.07 / FG Tour PMP: 55.12, 59.10 / Mizuno Bettinardi BC-4
    WITB Link
  • NewbyNewby Members Posts: 6,550 ✭✭
    As a referee, I have no problem with the LR providing it is explained clearly to members and is used only in appropriate circumstances. eg on selected holes.
  • AugsterAugster Members Posts: 4,246 ✭✭
    klebs01 wrote:



    So based on the replies above most clubs won’t be introducing the LR?




    I would expect most committees to implement the LR. This forum represents the outliers and is not a representative sample.




    This.



    Plus, when you are referring to “clubs” I think you are thinking formal events.



    For day to day play the LR can be used by each group as they see fit. 2 or more players in a group can make their own committee and enact the LR. In the US at least.
  • SawgrassSawgrass Members Posts: 15,015 ✭✭
    Newby wrote:


    As a referee, I have no problem with the LR providing it is explained clearly to members and is used only in appropriate circumstances. eg on selected holes.
    I've not seen a reference suggesting that this LR could or should be restricted to specified holes. Can you help me with that?
  • Colin LColin L Members Posts: 2,007 ✭✭
    Sawgrass wrote:

    Newby wrote:


    As a referee, I have no problem with the LR providing it is explained clearly to members and is used only in appropriate circumstances. eg on selected holes.
    I've not seen a reference suggesting that this LR could or should be restricted to specified holes. Can you help me with that?




    I have asked the R&A about whether this could be done but we have to wait another couple of days to get answer when the Official Guide to the Rules is published online. Why you would want to be selective, I don't know and like you wait to hear from Newby.



    Also to be answered, is how it can work, if at all, on a short hole which has no fairway or on a hole where off the tee there is a carry over rough ground and your ball is lost short of the fairway.
  • NewbyNewby Members Posts: 6,550 ✭✭
    Colin L wrote:


    Also to be answered, is how it can work, if at all, on a short hole which has no fairway or on a hole where off the tee there is a carry over rough ground and your ball is lost short of the fairway.




    Examples of why it may be selective.

    There may be other situations on a course where it would be impracticable, unreasonable or simply the best way of handling a PoP problem on a course that hasn't any other PoP issues related to the course design.
  • Colin LColin L Members Posts: 2,007 ✭✭
    I think we're coming at the same thing from different angles. I was looking for ways of making it work in the situations described rather than excluding them.
  • SawgrassSawgrass Members Posts: 15,015 ✭✭
    Colin L wrote:






    Also to be answered, is how it can work, if at all, on a short hole which has no fairway or on a hole where off the tee there is a carry over rough ground and your ball is lost short of the fairway.




    In the specific wording for the LR, it says, "[background=rgb(239, 240, 242)]For purposes of this Local Rule, “fairway” means any area of grass in the [/background]general area[background=rgb(239, 240, 242)] that is cut to fairway height or less."[/background]



    I was present at a seminar put on by the USGA, and when par 3s were discussed, it was noted that the "fairway" reference point could simply be a forward tee box. Of course, walking back and re-teeing remains a viable option, particularly on short par 3s.
Sign In or Register to comment.